General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

[Sol Hammer]

I mean, granted, in the American zeitgeist, no one I am aware of knew that Gypsy was a slur. It was just the word to refer to the 'weird nomadic people' in Europe. Like 'Irish' for people from Ireland.

I didn't know 'Roma' and 'Romani' existed until I was well into my twenties.

But yeah.

It's bad. It's 'All Ravnos are criminals and the Ravnos are the gypsy vampire clan' tier.

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Watching The Hunchback of Notre Dame as an impressionable kid certainly didn't help.

 

[Ragura]

There is a fairly good fan project

https://www.storytellersvault.com/de/product/224331/clanbook-lungo-drom

 

[shadowdice]

I forget what terrible things were in the weaver book other than how hard they fumble Science and implying Christianity is just a weaver plot

 

[gale]

I mean, given the nature of the Weaver arguing for Christianity being a Weaver plot in werewolf isn't that out there. I don't recall anything that level of bad in Book of Weaver but its been a while

 

[Maragas]

It is...

Spoiler

You just know the writer has an axe to grind with theme parks, non-African continents (and presumably America) and their countries, laws such as permits, employee protection laws, safety laws, taxes, Abrahamic Religions and classifying things. (Oh and 100% was a hippie)

 

[gale]

It is...

Spoiler

You just know the writer has an axe to grind with theme parks, non-African continents (and presumably America) and their countries, laws such as permits, employee protection laws, safety laws, taxes, Abrahamic Religions and classifying things. (Oh and 100% was a hippie)

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A lot of that is just Punk aspect of White Wolf I am going to be honest. Not all of it, some of it is just werewolf taking a stance on how things may be seen in its lore.

 

[Maragas]

A lot of that is just Punk aspect of White Wolf I am going to be honest. Not all of it, some of it is just werewolf taking a stance on how things may be seen in its lore.

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It is as blatant as Brucato's writing being obvious. (Funny enough, the primary writer for this never worked on another book)

There is a reason why half the stuff in Book of the Weaver seldom got referenced later (or outright proven wrong like Silent Striders and Jesus) even though arguably some of the coolest WTA stuff alongside banger art is also in it.

 

[gale]

It is as blatant as Brucato's writing being obvious. (Funny enough, the primary writer for this never worked on another book)

There is a reason why half the stuff in Book of the Weaver seldom got referenced later (or outright proven wrong like Silent Striders and Jesus) even though arguably some of the coolest WTA stuff alongside banger art is also in it.

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For sure lol, I will not deny that one. I can see his writing in there from Mage. I do think Weaver had a lot of good things in it they is useful to pull from, but you have to chose what to use.


I don't mind the idea of the Patriarch honestly, it fits werewolf for what it is. As well as it being born of the Weaver. Werewolf is the lest Christian based and that is good thing for it, as its meant to have its own metaphysics.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

The General World of Darkness Discussion Thread on SB, the one also ran by Maragas, is fine.

I don't follow Hunter the Parenting, though. Nor its threads.

 

[Nervaqus987]

Yeah. Fr. A garou will slaughter young or high gen leeches. They're strong. But then the older and lower gen vamps are like 'this is like a shot of expresso, this lupine blood.'

Odin is notorious for waking from torpor, destroying the local lupine population, and then going back to sleep.

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Odin is a fourth gen methuselah.

There's not a whole lot in the World of Darkness he can't handle.


But yeah, Garou that wanna throw down with low gen vampires are gonna need to get really cozy with Helios and hope he hooks them up with the good shit like the Gift that lets them produce wreath themselves in sunlight.

 

[shadowdice]

The mentions of world of darkness gypsie makes me want to look through the blood gifts aka the time they decided to make magic genetic when some of the groups thought of as such like Irish Travelers are their own thing. Along with being more eugenic than the Garou

*looks at the cover art*

Multiple people in White Wolf saw this cover and thought "yeah this is fine"

They made alcoholism a skill

that is somehow worse than the swindling skill that they gave a special name to when it is just subterfuge

I kind of like the bladed scarf thing

WoD: Gypsies have more points in virtues because they are tied to their life force due to "Genetic inheritance", also we are going on about how alcoholism, swindling, and fake magic are key skills for them and they find nothing wrong with swindling people from the out group. What do you mean this sounds terrible?

Blood purity as a mechanic is incredibly weird as well as narratively. Change out the name to Mystic Affinity or whatever and you dodge a lot of the issues tied to that one concept alone while making it something you boost. Basically just have it be gnosis.

blood gifts

dance of knives. Extra attacks but the first dot doesn't actually do anything.

Instinct. Bears the issue of being a word used in multiple splats for different things. Adds to rolls involving "safety" so i guess alertness, awareness, and dodge/athletics.

Luck. Add dice to rolls once per story.

Magic. Subdivived between Evil Eye to curse people, the sight to see past and future, mediumship (which also includes astral projection), and draba making magic items. The third one really should just be a merit since it is a merit in other games.

Truth of the Rom. "The ability to lie truthfully" I sigh. I sigh so much. This should just be skills or a merit. It is also opposed rolls for what just describes subterfuge. Was the writer paid by the word?

Zapaderin: Dance that hypnotizes everyone who is not a romani which is a repeated thing in this book and is bizarre in WOD where most of the time you are going to have to politick with whoever is your splatbook all the time. It takes ten minutes to make someone hypnotized. This is just kind of terrible.

there are also a bunch of powers related to the other splats

Spirit of the World: First dot is spend a willpower to get an action, second is letting people not get hit with the werewolf genocide fear bomb, third is werewolf claws for aggrovate damage, fourth is use a level one or two silent strider or homid gift, five is a howl that causes fear

Faerie Threads: One dot is recognize changelings and get a one use per story per dot (so one dot is once three dots is three times ability to call a faery or spirit or teleport via faerie rings or sing songs that attract spirits

Patteran: Have "Multiple patterns of thinking" which includes understanding crazy people, intuitively understand the truth of a thing, tell a story to give people an extra dice, "Fishing through time" to obtain knowledge, and walk through the spirit world while messing with both realms

Blood Sense: Sense what a person is through sensing blood with the first dot being Are You Roani, second being if someone is a mage, third if they are a vampire or werewolf, specifically being able to track a vampire werewolf or Romani up to a mile, track for three miles along with knowing the person's state

 

[vighzs]

-snip-

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I heard it was bad, but did not expect this.


On the topic of books, trying to research L.A.

Are there any other books about Los Angeles besides City onf Angels and L.A. by Night?

And anyone recommends watching that live-play series?

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

And anyone recommends watching that live-play series?

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LA by Night?

Erika Ishii's Annabelle is fucking insufferable. And she cries for 30-45min every other episode. Also typical modern college girl Brujah candidate.

But it's not garbo. I believe it's canon because it's an official let's play? And it does strut out a large number of whose who. So if you want like lore on LA, it's pretty solid. I think the LA by Night book, and a walk on the VTMB wiki will pretty much give you everything you need to know about LA by night so.

Of the three 'by Nights' that I'm aware of with Jason Carl, Seattle by Night is head and shoulders the best. For most of it, it plays like an actual table instead of kayfabe scripting, which is amazing. And so I must recc it when the chance comes. I also didn't watch all of it because I came to the eventual realization that I don't really like live plays.

 

[vighzs]

LA by Night?

Erika Ishii's Annabelle is fucking insufferable. And she cries for 30-45min every other episode. Also typical modern college girl Brujah candidate.

But it's not garbo. I believe it's canon because it's an official let's play? And it does strut out a large number of whose who. So if you want like lore on LA, it's pretty solid. I think the LA by Night book, and a walk on the VTMB wiki will pretty much give you everything you need to know about LA by night so.

Of the three 'by Nights' that I'm aware of with Jason Carl, Seattle by Night is head and shoulders the best. For most of it, it plays like an actual table instead of kayfabe scripting, which is amazing. And so I must recc it when the chance comes. I also didn't watch all of it because I came to the eventual realization that I don't really like live plays.

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Thanks for the info.

I don't really like them either but sometimes they are better fountains of lore (if sometimes controversial in nature) then actual sources.

The best example for it is the Lawhammer series on youtube, the creator and some of the players are Warhammer Fantasy Grognards (Andy Law helped create a lot of books for it) and since the Old World Tabletop is a Cathay Glazing editorial shitshow and the Old World RPG is more like DnD instead of Warhammer...

Their Live Play is the best "new lore/theorycraft" the setting has received since the world blew up.

 

[Sol Hammer]

Of the three 'by Nights' that I'm aware of with Jason Carl, Seattle by Night is head and shoulders the best. For most of it, it plays like an actual table instead of kayfabe scripting, which is amazing. And so I must recc it when the chance comes. I also didn't watch all of it because I came to the eventual realization that I don't really like live plays.

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Tried L.A. once and was getting bored after a while. But I was still craving for more VtM, so thanks for this.

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

But I was still craving for more VtM, so thanks for this.

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It has different seasons on different channels IIRC. Some on Penny Arcade and some on the WoD channel.

 

[shadowdice]

I heard it was bad, but did not expect this.


On the topic of books, trying to research L.A.

Are there any other books about Los Angeles besides City onf Angels and L.A. by Night?

And anyone recommends watching that live-play series?

Click to shrink...

One of the sample female characters is a girl who grew up with her family being killed off by a Ravnos who continuously fed everyone I think including her since before she was ten and is "entranced" by the kiss and constantly gravitating to bars full of vampires and longs for the embrace

Me: Well we went to the sexual trauma backstory. Again

The other one is just obsessed with sex

I am looking at this book thinking about how this is saying that the Nazis are correct in Romani being habitual liars and thieves who think nothing of conning the out group while also having eugenic superpowers.

And that they somehow didn't have any lines I noticed in reference to the "King of the gypsies" bare knuckle boxers


Over a dozen dudes including a silent strider in homid form and a Ravnos enter a tournament to hold the King of the Gypsies magic belt

 

[gale]

I have to ask this, are people really so obsessed with one world of darkness they treat it as a bedrock of all lore to the point that "the gauntlet must be Mnesis of the Moloké solidified" seems fucking wild to use in other World of darkness settings.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

I have to ask this, are people really so obsessed with one world of darkness they treat it as a bedrock of all lore to the point that "the gauntlet must be Mnesis of the Moloké solidified" seems fucking wild to use in other World of darkness settings.

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One World of Darkness? What's that?

 

[gale]

One World of Darkness? What's that?

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Making One World of Darkness, "All Lore from all Books are True!" no matter how conflicting or often its just people making up lore to make it that way by fucking over a spalt.

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

I have to ask this, are people really so obsessed with one world of darkness they treat it as a bedrock of all lore to the point that "the gauntlet must be Mnesis of the Moloké solidified" seems fucking wild to use in other World of darkness settings.

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I never play that way, god no. That's stupid. The splats aren't balanced against each other, the deep lore is generally not compatible.

If you play Vampire, it's lupines and willworkers, not garou and mages.

If you play Werewolf, it's leeches and edit: namers (? I've never played WtA, not actually all that familiar with it), not vampires and mages.

And so on.

Tbf I might grab O'Malleys being run by Pentex which is run by earthbound with demons in the burgers or something similar for a Vampire game. But, in general, cross-splat stuff is no bueno.

 

[gale]

I never play that way, god no. That's stupid. The splats aren't balanced against each other, the deep lore is generally not compatible.

If you play Vampire, it's lupines and willworkers, not garou and mages.

If you play Werewolf, it's leeches and willworkers, not vampires and mages.

And so on.

Tbf I might grab O'Malleys being run by Pentex which is run by earthbound with demons in the burgers or something similar for a Vampire game. But, in general, cross-splat stuff is no bueno.

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Werewolf has them called Namers from what I recall for their take on Mages, and they are all Weaver pawns.


I mainly run Mage Prime as my setting, and I feel no shame in treating other supernatural lore as the non sacrosanct because my Mage Game is in fact About Mages, Humanity, and the Ascension War.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

Making One World of Darkness, "All Lore from all Books are True!" no matter how conflicting or often its just people making up lore to make it that way by fucking over a spalt.

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Oh, that. Sadly, not sure what can be done about that phenomenon.

I mainly run Mage Prime as my setting, and I feel no shame in treating other supernatural lore as the non sacrosanct because my Mage Game is in fact About Mages, Humanity, and the Ascension War.

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On the one hand, I'd do this as well.

On the other hand... I only tried to run one WoD game in recent times and I made it clear there that the other splats do not even exist.

To be honest, I prefer my CofD RPs; I read Ascension (the ToJ book) to try and get ideas on how to make a game about resisting a nearly-victorious Nephandi but all I did was lose enthusiasm for running that game.

Didn't help that I started parallel QQ and SB versions of that same RP, and well, that was a lot of work.

 

[gale]

Oh, that. Sadly, not sure what can be done about that phenomenon.



On the one hand, I'd do this as well.

On the other hand... I only tried to run one WoD game in recent times and I made it clear there that the other splats do not even exist.

To be honest, I prefer my CofD RPs; I read Ascension (the ToJ book) to try and get ideas on how to make a game about resisting a nearly-victorious Nephandi but all I did was lose enthusiasm for running that game.

Didn't help that I started parallel QQ and SB versions of that same RP, and well, that was a lot of work.

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That tends to do it, and honestly. I don't think from what I have seen of you Repentant that style of good is what would be 1: Good for you to run 2: Unsure of if you can handle what that type of world would force Mages to do to fight back.

 

[Repentant_Dragos]

That tends to do it, and honestly. I don't think from what I have seen of you Repentant that style of good is what would be 1: Good for you to run 2: Unsure of if you can handle what that type of world would force Mages to do to fight back.

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You're probably completely correct.

You've been observing my creative output, then, or just what I talk about here and in SB?

 

[gale]

You're probably completely correct.

You've been observing my creative output, then, or just what I talk about here and in SB?

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I recall our older talk about what you morals mages should have.

In a world with a a nearly-victorious Nephandi, both the Union and Traditions would be forced to go full on brainwashing to fix up the taint that is done to normal humanity, reinforce themselves with outright near quite level of zealotry to keep themselves pure or just on verge of madness to turn into Marauders if its called for.

 

[vighzs]

Making One World of Darkness, "All Lore from all Books are True!" no matter how conflicting or often its just people making up lore to make it that way by fucking over a spalt.

Click to shrink...

Werewolf has them called Namers from what I recall for their take on Mages, and they are all Weaver pawns.


I mainly run Mage Prime as my setting, and I feel no shame in treating other supernatural lore as the non sacrosanct because my Mage Game is in fact About Mages, Humanity, and the Ascension War.

Click to shrink...

I prefer to cherry pick my lore and thematically involve other splats if necessary, however if my players don't want to involve other gamelines I will mono focus on the specifics of a singular splat.

Examples:

- If my players just want to play as Hunters like the early seasons of Supernatural and not get bogged down by the extended WoD universe, then they will hunt various creatures that might include vampires and werewolves who don't act like their WoD counterparts.

- If my players want to play as technocrats that want to purge the nephandi from the technocracy and don't mind involving other forces of corruption? Then they might just stumble upon Pentex assets during their investigation.

 

[gale]

I prefer to cherry pick my lore and thematically involve other splats if necessary, however if my players don't want to involve other gamelines I will mono focus on the specifics of a singular splat.

Examples:

- If my players just want to play as Hunters like the early seasons of Supernatural and not get bogged down by the extended WoD universe, then they will hunt various creatures that might include vampires and werewolves who don't act like their WoD counterparts.

- If my players want to play as technocrats that want to purge the nephandi from the technocracy and don't mind involving other forces of corruption? Then they might just stumble upon Pentex assets during their investigation.

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Nephandi in the Union is always funny to me, because like. That is something that is possible, but some factors make it hell compared to the Traditions. (VE's being so powerfully as the Navy and Military arm of the Union, and the fact they have a Marauder Taskforce. As well as they are far more likely to go Marauder then even the Traditions.)

 

[vighzs]

LA by Night?

Erika Ishii's Annabelle is fucking insufferable. And she cries for 30-45min every other episode. Also typical modern college girl Brujah candidate.

But it's not garbo. I believe it's canon because it's an official let's play? And it does strut out a large number of whose who. So if you want like lore on LA, it's pretty solid. I think the LA by Night book, and a walk on the VTMB wiki will pretty much give you everything you need to know about LA by night so.

Of the three 'by Nights' that I'm aware of with Jason Carl, Seattle by Night is head and shoulders the best. For most of it, it plays like an actual table instead of kayfabe scripting, which is amazing. And so I must recc it when the chance comes. I also didn't watch all of it because I came to the eventual realization that I don't really like live plays.

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Tried listening to it, yeah LA by Night is not my cup of tea (she is really fucking insufferable), and yeah Seattle by Night feels better.

Also Hunter: The Reckoning — Day For Night just came out, an interactive novel set in Hollywood (the place I am trying to research since it's in LA), which on paper sounds like a good thing, if only I did not try out the demo. The story doesn't really give you the option to be a moderate hunter besides maybe the faithfull hunter. You are either an adrenaline junkie asshole, an amoral entrepenour, or somebody with a martyr complex. Then there is the usual Choice of Games "if you don't min-max and lean into that character you are fucked" bullshit.