Legacy of the Forgotten Ground (Original)

[x] Plan peace of mind
-[x] Hunt for mana, from now on keep 1000 MP in reserve in case you die. (so all the expenditure plans below should be done once you have their cost +1000 MP).
-[x] Perform experiment: add bug, beast, devil, plant, slime, and undead at level 1 to our dragon body. (using 10MP each). And see if there are any conflicts or issues on the body from doing as such. Don't be inside the lab when doing so. Worse case your body explodes and we print a replacement in the lab. (that is why we saved all that MP). If there are no issues that crop up with this then continue with plan
-[x] Add Herbivore @body and raise to level 20. costs 2100 MP
-[x] Raise herbivore @soul from 1 to 10. costs 4860 XP
-[x] Add Scent Tracker @body and raise to level 10. costs 560 MP
-[x] Scribe Scent Tracker @soul and upgrade to level 10. costs 4950 XP
-[x] Spend 10,000 MP performing what limited repairs and cleanup you can on the lab. (estimated 5 days)
-[x] Spend 1,000 MP setting emergency barricades on the lab to make further intrusion into it difficult.
[x] [BESTIARY] Dragon evolution with mastery of magics

I am curious to know if we could use magics to make elemental guardians for our lab (as well as disposable soldiers). Anyways, since we are now earning some roughly 2000 MP / 20k XP a day of grinding we have some new options open to us. I want to do what we can with our limited knowledge to fix up and barricade the lab as much as possible. since it is our phylactery it is a pretty serious priority.

I want to get scent tracking early-ish so we can start acclimating into using it and start learning what various scents mean. And since we are capped at 10 monsters/hour, we should raise herbivore some for an extra income, since we can graze 10 hours a day each level of herbivore on body takes 1 day per level to pay for itself. so level 9 will pay for itself in 9 days, level 30 in 30 days, etc.

While I want to upgrade it to level 50 on body and level 10 on soul (with that max discount). I am thinkning we should work on the lab first as our phylactery takes priority. Also, I want to see what kind of dragon evolutions are available before dumping this much into our current body (in case we have to revert back to wyrmling to take a different path). I am also worried our body would die when we explore beyond our island... so for now, let's just go with 20 herbivore.

After we are done with the lab... well, I want to pause and see what the status is.
I am leaning towards going exploring beyond our island to see if it makes any changes to our plans. And when replacing our body is not yet catastrophically expensive.

Although I am somewhat tempted to go hunting for a week to get herbivore 50, all other traits on body at level 10. And mage initiate on body to level 25. And then raise mage initiate on soul to level 25. making its effective level the max level of 50 which means we can then upgrade all elements on soul at max discount of 50% from then on.

At which point I want to do exactly that and get all 6 elements on our soul to some decent level. Providing us with elemental resistances. And also probably going towards some sort of prismatic dragon thing. However, I am not putting any of that down on the plan yet, because I want to see what the status is after the lab if fixed up, possible dragon evolutions, etc. However, I am not committing to the above yet. Lets see what dragon evolutions are even available.

Alternatively or in addition, we can do 25 on body and 25 on soul for bioweapon. Again for max discount. And then start pumping up our ATK stat.

Spoiler: not a plan, but some disjointed rough draft of next turn plan

-[] Hunt while raising herbivore @body at the end of every day until herbivore reaches level 50. costs 12750 MP (estimated 6 days of hunting)
-[] Raise herbivore @soul from level 1 to level 10. costs 2700 XP (50% discount)

-[] Add Mage Initiate @body and upgrade to level 25. costs 3260 MP.
-[] Scribe Mage Initiate @soul and upgrade to level 25. costs 27900 XP (70% until level 5, 80% until level 15, 90% until 25).
-[] Add flight @body and raise to level 10. 550 MP
-[] Add bug @body and raise to level 10. 550 MP
-[] Add plant @body and raise to level 10. 550 MP
-[] Add ice @body and raise to level 10. 550 MP
-[] Add air @body and raise to level 10. 550 MP
-[] Add earth @body and raise to level 10. 550 MP
-[] Add winged @body and raise to level 10. 550 MP
-[] Add venomous @body and raise to level 10. 550 MP

-[] Raise flight @soul to level 10
-[] Raise air @soul to level 5
-[] Raise earth @soul to level 5
-[] Raise winged @soul to level 5
-[] Raise venomous @soul to level 5

-[] Raise bug @soul to level 5
-[] After the above setup is finished, go exploring with your new and improved flying ability.

 

Since Bug raises the effects of sensory abilities, splitting the exp/mana burden between Bug and Scent Tracker is more efficient. Aside from that, I agree with keeping a 1000 exp buffer and setting up emergency barriers, but we're so absurdly more powerful than the monsters that this island has to offer that I think we're better off exploring another island in hopes of more profitable prey than spending most of a week to grind out 10,000 mana.

 

[x] Plan peace of mind 2
-[x] Hunt for mana, from now on keep 1000 MP in reserve in case you die. (so all the expenditure plans below should be done once you have their cost +1000 MP).
-[x] Perform experiment: add bug, beast, devil, plant, slime, and undead at level 1 to our dragon body. (using 10MP each). And see if there are any conflicts or issues on the body from doing as such. Don't be inside the lab when doing so. Worse case your body explodes and we print a replacement in the lab. (that is why we saved all that MP). If there are no issues that crop up with this then continue with plan
-[x] Add Herbivore @body and raise to level 20. costs 2100 MP
-[x] Raise herbivore @soul from 1 to 10. costs 4320 XP
-[x] Add Scent Tracker @body and raise to level 10. costs 560 MP
-[x] Scribe Scent Tracker @soul and upgrade to level 10. costs 4950 XP
-[x] Raise bug @body to level 10. costs 540 MP
-[x] Raise bug @soul to level 10. costs 4860 XP
-[x] Spend 1,000 MP setting emergency barricades on the lab to make further intrusion into it difficult.
-[x] Explore beyond our island now that our flight is good enough.
-[x] Hunt in whichever island its more efficient to and gather 10,000 MP to performing what limited repairs and cleanup you can on the lab. (estimated 5 days if hunting on our island)
[x] [BESTIARY] Dragon evolution with mastery of magics

adjusted as per complaints and suggestions from LosAbogos.

also, i wonder if we can get a species with earth manipulation ability. and burrowing. and and then completely cover the entrances to the lab with a bunch of earth. then we can use earthburrow ability to enter and exit but other sophonts won't know to look for it

 

[x] Plan peace of mind 2

I'd feel like a jerk if I didn't support a plan I contributed to! (via complaining)

 

Lowercase v. I was using purple prose. As best you can tell, you could make a better axe with only a small investment into <Bladesmith> and a rather larger one into Mana to actually build it. The battleaxe has sentimental value to you now, not objective value as a weapon.

You specifically requested scent-based tracking. That clearly called for a canid, so of course I added a precursor to my favorite monstrous canids. The bishonen line is alive and real, and powerful monsters are often humanoid. Even dragons have humanoid options. Fluffy tail is just one of the shorter routes across the bishonen line for the Beast family.

Given that the vandals look like petting zoo people, why aren't they monsters? In this setting, monsters are defined by being animavorous. Monsters can instinctually tell whether or not another being they're observing is a monster (naturally, traits may be able to mess with this). Before your hibernation, humans were the only known sapient non-monster beings.

'Emergency barricades' would consist of having the Biomass Shaper print off a few sheets of carbon to board over any holes you can find. Actual repairs would consist of much cleaner work patching things and replacing doors and the like.

You currently have no way of remotely knowing what's going on in the lab shy of abandoning your body in the field (aka dying). You'll be able to tell if the Mana Tank or the Biomass Shaper are damaged or destroyed remotely, as well as the Mana Collector if it existed and was functional, but none of the other systems. None of the wild monsters you've seen on Lab Island can damage anything important in your lab, but they will slowly get stronger over time, so that won't always be true.

Your link to the lab systems is instantaneous. In a way, the lab is akin to a phylactery for you. Unfortunately, printing a new body takes a few minutes. While lacking a body, you can perceive stuff around the lab.

I find myself unsatisfied with all my answers to that question. Percentage makes immunity way too easy and was never really the intent here. Final damage after Atk/Def means that the attacker's Atk is irrelevant to how much extra damage they deal, and attacks with low base damage can deal extreme damage by exploiting an elemental weakness. Base damage before Atk/Def means it's much harder to zero out damage from an element you resist.

Let's go with resist/vuln modifying base damage before Atk/Def. Having final DR against elements will be a different trait; being able to absorb elements you sufficiently resist will be yet another trait.

Thank you for the resource. I've been basically remaking bits of that on the fly with Wolfram Alpha as needed (sum of triangle number sequence from x to y). Unfortunately, leveling elements has really fiddly interplay on costs from level to level, but that's all my fault and I'm willing to live with it (else I wouldn't have done that). In cases where order matters for cost (ugh, sorry), I'll try to pick the best ordering for learning everything in the plan.

Probably, but it would require traits you don't yet have.

 

I am very much ok with humanoid dragon MC... actually it even makes sense considering how close he was to the humans in the lab who raised him.

Incidentally, could we hypothetically transmigrate into a non monster species? I mean, there is no reason to do so, but i am curious

Cool, probably useful to eventually get that... or to get a way to control a monster that can control lesser monsters and set up some sorta hive protecting our lab.

Oh, I wonder if there are traits that could make us learn science better so we can properly restore the lab. From improved memory, to increased intellect, ability to scan tech items to see how they are built, to outright technopathy...

Also, what are your thoughts that, in the long term, we go all Dominions/Crusader Kings and set our island as the capital of our new nation as we recruit a bunch of sophonts to be our worshippers/subjects and expand ever outwards? while also uplifting them technologically?

 

Oh right, I have another mechanics question! How do exp/mana discounts on traits/stats interact when there are multiple sources? Only the highest discount applies? Caps at a certain percentage? Are they applied in a specific order? Are they applied multiplicatively or summed first(though I assume the former)?

A current example is raising Light for our soul. Our body has a higher Light trait than our soul so we get a discount, our Fire is higher than Light so we get a discount, and if we bought some levels of Mage Initiate first then we'd have a third source of discount to the trait.

 

why would fire give a discount for light?

 

No. That which taxonomically makes you a monster cannot be removed.

It should be possible to make a non-monster body for yourself, but you'd still technically be a monster, just one with a really weak body that looked like a mundane creature. As well, you can't visualize the body instinctively like you can monster bodies, so you'd need a trait or premade data on it, like for printing weapons.

You have a goal, a setting, and a collection of mechanics. What you do with those is up to you. I'll go along with whatever you guys vote to do.

They combine additively. Discounts can go as deep as 50% off. There is no ceiling on how bad the penalties can get.

Because I keep changing stuff in the extras threadmarks under you when you look away. Discounts and penalties for interactions between the standard elements are now in the mechanics notes section. I should probably split out that last bit into a penalties and discounts post.

 

Is this for upgrading the body with MP, or upgrading the soul with XP? And is it based on body, or on the derived body+soul status

 

Both. Will update Have updated for clarity.

 

I don't think it needs to be taken out and put in its own post. Rather, just a notification of "hey guys, I updated the mechanics post" would do just fine.

Alright, I see. Well, this can add up to a hefty penalty, but also to a hefty discount.

Moreover for body upgrades each element has 2 discount sources and 1 penalty source. So if go at it at a round robin manner of raising each element by 1 point at a time, then it would give us more bonus than penalty. And from level 50+ so long as we keep them balanced the total will remain stuck at 50% discount for body upgrades... Soul meanwhile has 4 sources of discount and 1 of penalty. (2 magically similar, 1 learning the known, and magic initiate trait)

So, keeping them at the max discount of 50% off is definitely doable.

 

It needed to be separated because it had sufficiently outgrown its original post. One part separation of concerns, one part ease of finding relevant information in the future. Explicitly noting patches as I make them is a good idea that I already should have been doing.

 

I am very curious about dragon slimes and dragon cacti... actually, I want to know if there is a dragon-kitsune hybrid!

Also, no comment about our brand new sense of smell? no "wow I never realized the world could be like this" when an entire new sensory capability was gained?

Since we know nothing about them, isn't it basically a coin toss? Lets go south I guess.

Dragon Elementalist is interesting. it is a sidegrade of heavenly hatchling (both are evolved from wyrmling), it has less HP, ATK, and DEF than heavenly hatchling (significantly so for HP). But its damage is 50% higher and it has double the MP. Also with all 6 elements at 25 it has better elemental defenses. It lacks flight though... maybe there is an evolution that combines the two?

Anyways, new traits were discovered, but are not entirely known

New trait from armoreddillo is:
Armored - how does that work? we will have to see.

New trait from dragon elementalist:
Dragonmagic - has dragon in the name. meaning it might get a big boost from dragon
MP Regeneration - I am VERY curious about this, is this going to generate MP income?

Previously discovered trait not yet taken:
Mage Initiate (waiting until we plan to actually spend on mage stuff)

Currently our gains seem to have shifted from 1:11 ratio of MP to XP, to 1:5. So, I am thinking of spending a little extra MP to save some XP now becomes valid.
Spending an extra 10 MP to acquire level 1 of trait in body reduces the XP cost of level 1 in soul from 170 to 90. Saving 80 XP at the cost of 10 MP. with current ratio of 1:5 that actually pays off.

So
[x] Plan Sunrise
-[x] Buy @body Armored Level 1. Costs 20MP
-[x] Buy @body Dragonmagic Level 1. Costs 20MP
-[x] Buy @body MP Regeneration Level 1. Costs 20MP
-[x] Buy @body Mage Initiate Level 1. Costs 20MP
-[x] Buy @soul Armored Level 1. Costs 90XP
-[x] Buy @soul Dragonmagic Level 1. Costs 90XP
-[x] Buy @soul MP Regeneration Level 1. Costs 90XP
-[x] Buy @soul Mage Initiate Level 1. Costs 90XP
-[x] Explore the island to the east
[x] [BESTIARY] Evolution of Heavenly Hatchling with the trait Dragonmagic

 

I just want to clear something up quickly: if there's any land to the South, it's beyond the horizon, which means it's also still beyond your flight range. The neighboring islands are to the North and to the East. If this plan isn't changed, I'm going to assume it intends to go North.

 

Doh... I read "north and east" and somehow my mind translated it into "north and south".
Fixed, its going to the east.

 

[x] Spendy Copycat
-[x] Buy @body Armored Level 1. Costs 20MP
-[x] Buy @body Dragonmagic Level 1. Costs 20MP
-[x] Buy @body MP Regeneration Level 1. Costs 20MP
-[x] Buy @body Mage Initiate Level 1. Costs 20MP
-[x] Buy @soul Armored Level 1. Costs 90XP
-[x] Buy @soul Dragonmagic Level 1. Costs 90XP
-[x] Buy @soul MP Regeneration Level 1. Costs 90XP
-[x] Buy @soul Mage Initiate Level 1. Costs 90XP
-[x] Buy @soul Def points 40. Costs 2000XP
-[x] Hunt one of each of the new monsters to get their scent and a taste of their mana yield.
-[x] Explore the island to the east
[x] [BESTIARY] A more advanced slime

Haha I'm rebelling!

Edit: I'll concede a tie without complaint though. mrttao's plan was up for over a full day before I shamefully brilliantly stole improved it, after all.

 

Eh, you're both voting for East island anyway, which is the most important immediate decision.

Since I ended up not writing yesterday apart from a new bestiary entry (Sky Dragon Sorcerer), I'll probably add at least one bestiary entry today too. We definitely need more Slimes in the Bestiary, they're fun. I should make some show up on the next island so I have to write more entries for them.

With regards to mana yield, I calculate that by summing the target's total trait levels. Brown Raptors have been 26, Horned Bunnies have been 18. To obfuscate this a little and to make the numbers look more organic, I then give a bonus of 1d[magnitude of second most significant digit] (for the ~2k farming days done recently, those have been 1d100).

XP doesn't yet have as good a calculation system, which has been bugging me. I've been doing 20 XP for Floofballs and 100 XP for Brown Raptors and Horned Bunnies, plus the same bonus fudge factor as above. As new monsters are showing up, I need to turn this into a proper formula.

The last difference in your plan is buying some Def@Soul. In case of tie, I may just coin flip this. 2k XP is not a huge amount right now, although it's not entirely free either -- you can get that with two hours of the previous level of farming, even before we start thinking about Lab Island's new tier of monsters.

 

Amusingly I was planning to vote a slime bestiary entry next turn anyways. As you said, they ARE fun. That is a half dragon kitsune

sounds fine

 

out of curiosity, is this island also flying? also, now that we fly better, can we try flying downwards from our flying island to see what is underneath it? it can't just be air forever, right?
... who am i kidding, of course it can

... if its all shattered islands in the void, i wonder if the world exploded and if we can merge the shards back together

... I am kinda regretting not getting ourself a set of clothing with a nice top hat. clothes would indicate culture.

... also wondering if there is some creature (probably some fae, devils, or celestials) that the ability to speak all languages? would help if we open communications

 

There was just air under Lab Island. There's just air under here, too. You've never considered the idea that there might not be a ground before now. You just... kind of assumed it had to still be there, under the black clouds of death. It has to be, right? Otherwise, wouldn't everything just drift apart forever? You know the planet is a lot bigger than the few hundred meters down the islands go before they become open sky underneath.

 

Wait, the black clouds of death are underneath the flying islands?
I thought they were to one of the cardinal directions.

ok, that makes a scary amount of sense... and we can't enter the black clouds of death to explore... err, can we? how lethal are they?

 

They're the problem you were made to solve.

At the time you were born, they were unpleasant and slowly sapped your HP. The danger they posed even then was a factor in the choice you made to risk approaching the humans. That choice paid off for you, but you well know they could have easily driven you off.

By the time you went into hibernation, they were already thick enough that an unequipped human going outside would die within a few minutes. The lab facility had to be made airtight, and depended on an Air magic filtration system to prevent the humans from suffocating. That wasn't a problem for you -- as a monster, you can substitute in Mana for whatever it is that humans need to breathe for. Incidentally, proper repairs for the lab should allow it to be airtight again, should you feel the need for it. The external doors are set up airlock-style.

According to the humans of your lab, the clouds pose a radiological, thaumaturgical, and biological hazard. Also, they occlude sight and deal, like, crazy amounts of HP damage at last check. The humans pumped a little bit of the stuff into one of the entryways with a non-sapient Floofball test subject, and it died in under a second. Worse, there was't even any Mana left to consume when they let you at the corpse, and you got to it quickly enough that there should have been something.

The clouds don't look any less threatening than they did when you went into hibernation. You were very much surprised to see blue skies when you first went outside.

If you're very careful, you might be able to explore the edge of the death clouds, but even with your immortality you'd much rather send someone else in first.

 

Interesting... did it eat the floofball soul? maybe to grow more clouds? basically a magical grey goo equivalent?

Would it drain the mana of golems we send in? (if we ever learn to make any?)

[x] Plan? (Write-in)
-[x] Approach someone alone in a non threatening manner and try to talk to them.
[x] [BESTIARY] Kitsune

Anyways, lets try talking. worse case scenario (very unlikely) is that we get cornered by their fighters and have to print out a new body. but I doubt it will come to that

 

[x] mrttao

Sure. Not worth fighting anyone, even if they attack us. They won't even give us delicious mana. Different story if we find out they're the dicks who attacked our lab, I guess. For now though, play it cool.

If there's an impractical communication barrier, we'll probably go explore North, I guess. Bit over 70km from this island.

 

No such thing exists, unfortunately. While XP and Mana allow for rapid growth, Traits can't do everything, only most things. They're an expression of instinctive monster capabilities. While there is an instinctive universal monster language (at least among sapient monsters), there just isn't a monster/Trait that bypasses the language barrier.

I'll reveal the language mechanic right now, for convenience. Every half-day (5h) spent learning the language progresses your capability in in by 1d100. This assumes that you're spending the time actively learning and doing little else (you still get Herbivore Mana if relevant, but aren't accomplishing anything else), and requires interacting continuously with native speakers for the duration.
At 100 points, you have a command of common nouns. Through context and patience, you should be able to get simple ideas across.
At 300 points (200 more), you have verbs. By this point, you're basically up to caveman speech.
At 600 points (300 more), you're filling in more of the language. You can express and understand more complex ideas in the language, and generally not come across as a moron.
At 1000 points (400 more), you're fully fluent. You'll still miss most idioms the first time you encounter them, but that's due to a lack of cultural background rather than due to a lack of the ability to understand the literal words used.

This means that, on average, total fluency will take about 10 days of immersion with active help. This is definitely fast, but you're a smart dragon. You pick things up fast.

If you can't get assistance with learning the language, you can still try sneaking around and listening in to learn at a much, much slower rate.

Since I can't fill in the part of the Bestiary request you actually want (instant language), I'll probably pick something in the Devil family unless a different Bestiary request is made.

Don't be silly. Of course you can eat them for Mana. They have perfectly functional (and delicious) souls. What they don't have is the ability to do the same to you! Poor, silly non-monsters... you'd think if you hadn't seen what humans had done at their peak. The fact that they don't get anything out of eating each other makes them much more willing to cooperate than monsters, and en masse that lead humanity to cooperative research into crazy technology that made them the world's dominant power. Not that humans couldn't be individually strong, but they tended to get better (and therefore be worth more Mana) much more slowly than monsters. Teamwork and technology, those were always the humans' strengths.

From your initial scouting pass, you'd judge the children at being less than 10 Mana a pop, most of the adults at under 100 apiece, and maybe some of the strongest few at over 100 Mana. People like the one who was pulling metal through dirt as if it was water, or the monster-slaying guard -- that hatchet did not look like a particularly impressive weapon, yet he still killed a mostly uninjured Bloody Begonia in one hit with it. He could well have more Atk than you right now. Of course, you can fly, and you'd have the advantage of attacking him when he didn't expect it. Even if he's strong, he simply doesn't have the equipment he'd need to pose a threat to you. Your Dragonbreath should massively out-damage him.