Norse Mythology Reference Thread - The Whitest Has His Eye on You

[Karmic Acumen]

Do you have any sources for this?

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Besides what I said right after that point? Specifically the part about what fenrisulfr means? I did preface the whole post with a link to the database of scholarship too.

That said, the etymology does seem to have become a bit more contested since I made this thread, but mostly about what fenrir means, not what fenrisulfr means.

The video below mentions the 'fenrisulfr' most likely translations in this video. He's hesitant to rule categorically because apparently 'Fenrir's' etymology is more contested than I thought (or at least it has become so now). But he argues this on account of 'fenrir' with an -ir' having an unknown etymology, while fenrisulfr has an s. In any case, the wolf's most likely identity is Garm, and whatever 'fenri-' means in 'fenrisulfr' is like 'Yggdrasil askr' - a kenning for whoever the wolf belongs to / is associated with. Any other arguments seem to be trying to argue from the conclusion backwards.

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_guSPcggPQ

I should probably add a bit about Loptr too, now, a bit of linguistic scholarship has circulated on that etymology since ('praised one'). A connection between Loki and Hoenir has been made too. I didn't do it before because Loptr and Hoenir are otherwise names associated with Odin's actual brothers (the ones he killed Ymir with).

 

[attercop]

Lodurr is associated w/ Loki.

 

[Karmic Acumen]

Lodurr is associated w/ Loki.

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Same name as Loptr, just written differently. Lothur is another spelling, closest to what it sounded like.

 

[attercop]

Same name as Loptr, just written differently. Lothur is another spelling, closest to what it sounded like.

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Ya. Is there another connection to Hoenir or just that one myth.

 

[Karmic Acumen]

Ya. Is there another connection to Hoenir or just that one myth.

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There's no known mythic connection, actually, just an assumed etymologic one.

 

[Eccho]

Wow. That's all so much cooler than the usual depiction of norse mythology in media. Thanks for the history lesson.

 

[Darmani]

Sigyn

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SHE has a NAME! often just Loki's wife, likely named in the chaining stories but Thor's debt slave children get more play than loki's family. I know we can blame marvel for loki becoming thor's brother but the dynamic in at least TRANSLATED tales feels less Elder male with his nephew and more equals. Its just one of theose corruptions that I can see why fits/persists (not least his relation to everyone already weird and questionable as a whole)
Is Sigyn a real name or like Sif just a word/stand in for wife much as say for the other god's names being more epithet's or titles

Okay so Thor is Tyr who is also Odin and Freyja ISN'T Frigg who he is married to who.. isn't a giant but a Vanir? Maybe? Also Jotnar plural Jotun singular (okay, whatever foreign words anyway I can be american about the connotation) and their characteristic IS they are man-eaters NOT more protean/primordial than the gods/aesir/vanir which, tbf most anything aiming for mythic accuracy admits there is a LOT of intermixing and interbreeding going on, even more than the Olympians/gods v. the Titans

Still wonder what happen to Odin's brothers. And that whole call them forth before born by the cowlicked out giant guy. and then where their wives come from

 

[Karmic Acumen]

Okay so Thor is Tyr who is also Odin

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Nope, Thor is Tyr but Odyn came later and his cult eventually displaced Thor's as the most prominent, leading to syncretism, and eventually revisionism.

Still wonder what happen to Odin's brothers. And that whole call them forth before born by the cowlicked out giant guy. and then where their wives come from

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Myths got mixed up and revised a lot over time, probably Odyn/Vidrir's brothers were Hoenir and Loptr, and Loptr might have been an earlier name of of Loki. But it's very possible there weren't three brothers at all, starting out, but two (since that's how it was in the oldest creation myths of the norse people's ancestors). Three wasn't always the big cheese of numerology.

But then you also get that weird thing where Heimdall is the one that established the three castes of norse society, so who even knows? For a quick summary, Heimdall slept between the man and woman three times, and the boys that resulted became the first Jarl, Thane and Thrall respectively. Maybe Heimdall was the original Father Sky, or maybe Thor was and Heimdall was HIS brother, and Odin/Loptr/Hoenir were the three brothers from the original Jarl/Thane/Thrall story, but this is just random speculation I came up with just now, so don't go quoting it anywhere.

 

[Turncoat]

Today I learned a ton about Norse mythology, thanks.

 

[SGB]

So Frey, Tyr, Thor (never mind these are all just epithets, like one would use for fae, see a theme?) are just the Revered Ancestors that ended up most prominent in their culture. That's why every god is a god of 'insert a whole list of things here'.

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I knew the norse gods had numerous epithets, but wasn't aware the names they were known most by are also epithets. Fascinating. I know the origin of many deities likely had some roots in particularly badass ancestors, didnt think to connect that with the norse though.

Any word on the whole "Loki might've been something of a mischievous house spirit originally?" I think it has something to do with the hearthstone with his scar-lipped face carved in.

 

[Karmic Acumen]

I knew the norse gods had numerous epithets, but wasn't aware the names they were known most by are also epithets. Fascinating. I know the origin of many deities likely had some roots in particularly badass ancestors, didnt think to connect that with the norse though.

Any word on the whole "Loki might've been something of a mischievous house spirit originally?" I think it has something to do with the hearthstone with his scar-lipped face carved in.

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The connection has been made, but I personally don't agree that it's the origin. The ultimate source of fire for humans in temperate and tundral regions without active volcanoes is lightning, and pre-Odinic norse/germanic faith is easily old enough to predate permanent homes and hearths.

Norse myhtology is one of very few ones without a flood myth, and the only one besides possibly Zoroastrian (to my knowledge) that remembers the actual origin of that calamy: Fymbulventr is obviously the ice age, while the rest of the stuff at Ragnarok fit to a t as allegories for the Younger Dryas meteor impact.

Since we know Thor's cult is the original Father Sky cult of distant prehistory (which in other parts of Europe turned into the World Blacksmith with sparks from his anvil as the lightning, like Perkunos is remembered in songs today), I'd say Logi (fire) instead of Loki (knot) really was the original term, and Skyfather's companion/follower was the tree/forest fires as I previously mentioned (or the firebreath of the dragon he chased/rode during storms).

As a side note, there is a myth about Loki inventing the fishing net later, which involves lots of knots. So I'm inclined to think it was a case of homophones (logi / loki) becoming normalized and interchangeable over generations.

 

[SGB]

What is the most accurate description of a norse mythology dwarf you can give? I know they werent necessarily short, were seemingly more spiritual entities, etc