RWBY the series discussion thread

[OverReactionGuy]

Want to discuss the series without ranting about it? Well, this thread is the place for it.

 

[2 Hot Crown Subdues the Sinful]

I'm surprised that Gabriel Blessing hasn't shoved Shirou into Remnant and turned RWBYPVC into his harem...

Happy as well that Lancaster is back on the table.

 

[tighearnach]

When? Because I have seen season 4, and I don't remember anything like that.

Click to shrink...

1:54
Ruby: So these... Maidens... They're powerful fighters that don't need Dust to use magic.
Qrow: Yeah.

Dust is magic, Maidens are magic. Aura and semblances are a different kind of magic.

 

[rick1497]

1:54
Ruby: So these... Maidens... They're powerful fighters that don't need Dust to use magic.
Qrow: Yeah.

Dust is magic, Maidens are magic. Aura and semblances are a different kind of magic.

Click to shrink...

Pretty sure she was just confused about magic actually existing. As in, they don't use dust, they use magic instead. Also, remember, she's fifteen years old, she doesn't know everything about the world. And she isn't always the most articulate about what she's thinking.

Also, still no answer about how dust is any different from the hundreds of fictional materials in most science fiction stories.

 

[tighearnach]

Pretty sure she was just confused about magic actually existing. As in, they don't use dust, they use magic instead. Also, remember, she's fifteen years old, she doesn't know everything about the world. And she isn't always the most articulate about what she's thinking.

Also, still no answer about how dust is any different from the hundreds of fictional materials in most science fiction stories.

Click to shrink...

Then why do you think Qrow replied in the affirmative?

 

[rick1497]

Then why do you think Qrow replied in the affirmative?

Click to shrink...

Because he's trying to keep it as simple as he can. Also, he was madly poisoned, it probably effected his mind some.

 

[tighearnach]

Because he's trying to keep it as simple as he can. Also, he was madly poisoned, it probably effected his mind some.

Click to shrink...

How exactly was he trying to keep things simple? Sure, he wasn't quoting Ozpin verbatim, but he was answering any questions asked of him to the best of his ability, and he didn't seem to be dumbing it down at all. He references things being complicated, but that's in regards to (as far as we know) not wanting to talk about how his semblance made him not want to travel with the group, not in regards to how the maidens power works.

There is no indication at all the poison was affecting his mind.

Also, still no answer about how dust is any different from the hundreds of fictional materials in most science fiction stories.

Click to shrink...

Sure.

And where is this detailed analasys about the properties of element zero and what causes them? Because it isn't something I noticed on a casual playthrough. Oh, and what about adamantium, that's never given the same level of analasys. Or naquadah. Or dilithium. Or tylium. Or Xenothium. Or Gundanium. I could go on for a while here. Science fiction materials are rarely explained, but people don't tend to think of them as magic. So why is dust different?

Click to shrink...

Spoiler: brief analysis of each of those materials

I'm not going super detailed, because I'm not an expert on material sciences, or most of the series that the materials you listed come from. I'm sure if you took the time to look for them, you could find those analyses you don't think exist.

Element zero
Compound created by stars going nova, somehow produces a type of "dark energ,y a real concept that has little to do with what it's shown to do. Somehow, it's powdered form can cause individuals from almost every species we know of to mutate and gain the abilty to control "mass efefcets" with their brains.
Very magical.
Adamantium
The original adamantium, the stuff in Cap's sheild, was made mysteriosuly, as ti bonded whielt eh scientist attemptign to recreate the mythologcial metal in Hercule's mace fell asleep. The resulting shield is so strong it needs cosmic power to destroy it.
Very very magical.
Naquadah
Aside from being "wormhole resistant", it's scientific enough that I wouldn't complain (much). Different states, different isotopes, it's presented much more scientifically than the other elements.
Middle of the road pseudo-scientific.
Dilithium
Pseudo-scientific gibberish from a show that didn't eve n try to be scientific most of the time.
♪Bounce a Graviton Particle beam off the main deflector dish♪
Magic.
Tylium
Not enough information to say more than: FTL is bullshit.
Pseudo-scientific at best.
Xenothium
Volatile explosive power source. Scientific enough, at least in comparison to the others I don't feel the need to examine further, especialyl cosnidering ti shwos up soemthing like twice (powering a suit, and powering a death ray, IIRC). I guess it should probably be radioactive?
Acceptably pseudo-scientific.
gundanium
Mystery compound made with a mystery method, supposedly containing many "unknown materials". Pseudo-scientific at best.

I could also go on.

A lot of science fiction does try and have it's fictional materials remain within the bounds of what's possible, or at least what your average person who's forgotten most scientific knowledge they used to have thinks is possible. There's a reason it's called science fiction. However, lite science fiction generally doesn't, and every series you listed is lite sci-fi, or a less scientific genre. A lot of people prefer it that way. Still, shows like stargate still at least try and look scientific, and it doesn't seem to negatively impact their popularity. A good example of a "sufficiently explored phlebtonium" would be tiberium from C&C, which has what, to the layperson such as myself, looks like meticulous documentation of it's properties.

RWBY doesn't try to be scientific at all, and it doesn't try to present Dust scientifically. It isn't a science fiction series, it's a fantasy series with advanced technology. With it's generally pretty terrible consistency and less than stellar animation, making it hard to tell what dust can or cannot do.
Monty Oum is even on record as having said dust is basically ground up materia, and referring to Weiss's sword's different cylinders of dust as accessing different categories of magic.

 

[rick1497]

How exactly was he trying to keep things simple? Sure, he wasn't quoting Ozpin verbatim, but he was answering any questions asked of him to the best of his ability, and he didn't seem to be dumbing it down at all. He references things being complicated, but that's in regards to (as far as we know) not wanting to talk about how his semblance made him not want to travel with the group, not in regards to how the maidens power works.

There is no indication at all the poison was affecting his mind.

Sure.

Spoiler: brief analysis of each of those materials

I'm not going super detailed, because I'm not an expert on material sciences, or most of the series that the materials you listed come from. I'm sure if you took the time to look for them, you could find those analyses you don't think exist.

Element zero
Compound created by stars going nova, somehow produces a type of "dark energ,y a real concept that has little to do with what it's shown to do. Somehow, it's powdered form can cause individuals from almost every species we know of to mutate and gain the abilty to control "mass efefcets" with their brains.
Very magical.
Adamantium
The original adamantium, the stuff in Cap's sheild, was made mysteriosuly, as ti bonded whielt eh scientist attemptign to recreate the mythologcial metal in Hercule's mace fell asleep. The resulting shield is so strong it needs cosmic power to destroy it.
Very very magical.
Naquadah
Aside from being "wormhole resistant", it's scientific enough that I wouldn't complain (much). Different states, different isotopes, it's presented much more scientifically than the other elements.
Middle of the road pseudo-scientific.
Dilithium
Pseudo-scientific gibberish from a show that didn't eve n try to be scientific most of the time.
♪Bounce a Graviton Particle beam off the main deflector dish♪
Magic.
Tylium
Not enough information to say more than: FTL is bullshit.
Pseudo-scientific at best.
Xenothium
Volatile explosive power source. Scientific enough, at least in comparison to the others I don't feel the need to examine further, especialyl cosnidering ti shwos up soemthing like twice (powering a suit, and powering a death ray, IIRC). I guess it should probably be radioactive?
Acceptably pseudo-scientific.
gundanium
Mystery compound made with a mystery method, supposedly containing many "unknown materials". Pseudo-scientific at best.

I could also go on.

A lot of science fiction does try and have it's fictional materials remain within the bounds of what's possible, or at least what your average person who's forgotten most scientific knowledge they used to have thinks is possible. There's a reason it's called science fiction. However, lite science fiction generally doesn't, and every series you listed is lite sci-fi, or a less scientific genre. A lot of people prefer it that way. Still, shows like stargate still at least try and look scientific, and it doesn't seem to negatively impact their popularity. A good example of a "sufficiently explored phlebtonium" would be tiberium from C&C, which has what, to the layperson such as myself, looks like meticulous documentation of it's properties.

RWBY doesn't try to be scientific at all, and it doesn't try to present Dust scientifically. It isn't a science fiction series, it's a fantasy series with advanced technology. With it's generally pretty terrible consistency and less than stellar animation, making it hard to tell what dust can or cannot do.
Monty Oum is even on record as having said dust is basically ground up materia, and referring to Weiss's sword's different cylinders of dust as accessing different categories of magic.

Click to shrink...

So you consider various things like dilithium and element zero to be magic. Well, that's a completely different discussion to be had, and I don't feel like arguing that Star Trek, and other science fiction shows that don't have fantasy elements, don't have magic in them with you, so I'll just stop here.

On the other thing you pointed out, RWBY is definitely a science fiction series. I looked for a definition of science fiction and found this.


"Works of fiction that use scientific discoveries or advanced technology — either actual or imaginary — as part of their plot. "

Other definitions I have seen have mentioned them being part of the world or part of the setting, not just part of the plot. Personally, I would consider the airships we see, robot armies, a communication system that has no problems with any size of data, antigravity, cyborg prosthetics, and sentient robots to fit the advanced technology, either actual of imaginary description. So yes, it is a Science Fiction series. It is also a fantasy series. These two things do not contradict each other.

I'm surprised that Gabriel Blessing hasn't shoved Shirou into Remnant and turned RWBYPVC into his harem...

Happy as well that Lancaster is back on the table.

Click to shrink...

Do the C and V stand for Coco and Velvet? I'm not entirely sure, since they were fairly minor characters. I know that the V could, potentially, stand for Nora. Also, is the P for Pyrrha or Penny?

Of the two major F/SN stories that Gabriel Blessing has written, neither of them has any more harem in them than the series they are crossed with. Hill of Swords actually has fewer harem elements than Familiar of Zero has. A couple of girls are attracted to him, but fewer than were attracted to Saito and Shiroe doesn't end up with anyone, he dies alone in the distant epilogue. As for In Flight, those elements were forced by the Sekirei crossover. If he were to write a F/SN RWBY crossover, it probably wouldn't be a harem story.

As for Lancaster being on the table, I don't have a problem with that ship, but I did ship Arkos, so I'm not as thrilled as you are. Still, it was my second choice for a Juane pairing, and one of my top two choices for a Ruby pairing, and Ladybug would get in the way of my favorite Blake ship of whatever BlakexSun is called, so I don't have a problem with it at all.

 

[2 Hot Crown Subdues the Sinful]

Do the C and V stand for Coco and Velvet? I'm not entirely sure, since they were fairly minor characters. I know that the V could, potentially, stand for Nora. Also, is the P for Pyrrha or Penny?

Click to shrink...

Nora is for Ren. PVC is Pyrrha, Velvet, and Coco.

 

[rick1497]

Nora is for Ren. PVC is Pyrrha, Velvet, and Coco.

Click to shrink...

So why are you including Coco and Velvet in the probable harem? They're minor characters that barely get any screen time. Also, Gabriel Blessing doesn't have a history of including every woman in a series in Shirou's harem, so it seems like quite the random assumption to make.

 

[2 Hot Crown Subdues the Sinful]

So why are you including Coco and Velvet in the probable harem? They're minor characters that barely get any screen time. Also, Gabriel Blessing doesn't have a history of including every woman in a series in Shirou's harem, so it seems like quite the random assumption to make.

Click to shrink...

In Flight, A Hill of Swords, etc... He only doesn't take waifu from characters that already have them, like Ren and Nora, or Guiche and Montmorency.

 

[rick1497]

In Flight, A Hill of Swords, etc... He only doesn't take waifu from characters that already have them, like Ren and Nora, or Guiche and Montmorency.

Click to shrink...

Hill of Swords: he didn't include Louise, Agnes, Tiffania, or Tabitha, all of whome played a prominent role and none of whom had canonical love interests that were available. Heck, two of them were interested in the character Shirou replaced, and were not interested in Shirou. He had fewer love interests than the canon character he replaced. And he didn't end up with any of them.

In Flight: Shirou didn't end up with Miya who wad no living love interests.

So no, Shirou doesn't just get a harem of ever female character without a love interest. There are legitimate criticisms of Gabriel Blessing's works, but you are misrepresenting them.

 

[kahna1234]

I'm just here wondering which of the Salem faction is going to do the heel-face turn.

I'm fairly sure Roosterteeth pretty much stated that one of the Salem faction is not wholly invested in Salems plan and is going to end up joining the good guys/anti-Salem faction.

From what we've seen so far, I'm going to go out on a limb and say its Cinder.

 

[rick1497]

I'm just here wondering which of the Salem faction is going to do the heel-face turn.

I'm fairly sure Roosterteeth pretty much stated that one of the Salem faction is not wholly invested in Salems plan and is going to end up joining the good guys/anti-Salem faction.

From what we've seen so far, I'm going to go out on a limb and say its Cinder.

Click to shrink...

Emerald seems a bit more likely to me.

 

[kahna1234]

Emerald seems a bit more likely to me.

Click to shrink...

Cinder has generally seemed not all that into Salems plans and the way she is being treated all throughout Vol 4. She also got severely creeped out by Tyrions frenzied killing of a grim.

 

[rick1497]

Cinder has generally seemed not all that into Salems plans and the way she is being treated all throughout Vol 4. She also got severely creeped out by Tyrions frenzied killing of a grim.

Click to shrink...

She wasn't into being horribly wounded. Her problems were do to physical pain, not being unenthusiastic. Remember, she had no problems destroying Beacon, I don't see her getting cold feet now.

 

[zMADLAXz]

>looting from an empty store
Mm. Okay.
Do you not understand second order effects?
...Alright, what happens when one's store is looted?
Well, let's start from the beginning.

How do they get in?
They have to break in.
"Break in."
As in, physically destroy the security mechanisms and doors/windows to enter.
Those things cost money.
>but insurance--
Hold your horses, I'm getting there.

What else within the store is impacted?
Additionally, it's not just stolen inventory and broken security you have to deal with.
It's all the damage to the inside of the store you have to take care of.
Broken glass, broken shelves, the store in disarray, and so on.
You have to clean all that shit up, put it back in order, and replace anything that's broken.
And while you're doing that, you have to close the store.
Which means days to weeks of lost business while repairs and cleanup are done.

How does a storeowner recoup their losses?
Insurance, yes.
H o w e v e r.
There's a big caveat there. A few, in fact.
Do you pay for insurance? Are you at the point in life where you have insurance on something?
Insurance costs money.
Not just in the insurance fees themselves, called the premium, but in the amount of money you have to pay out of pocket to make them get off their asses and do their fucking jobs, which is the deductible.
Who do you think pays that, for a business? Assuming we're talking about a chain here.
The chain itself?
No.
It's the franchise owner.
The guy who is paying the big company money to use their name to sell their products.
A franchise owner pays for space for the business, utilities to the space, insurance on the space, the furniture and furnishings within the space, and the goods to be sold within the space.
Insurance only covers physical damage to the space and stolen goods up to X value.
And then, because he was looted, the insurance company reassesses his risk and raises his premiums and deductible because he's now in a high risk area due to the crime committed against his store.
But not just the franchise owner!
Oh no.
Because the area is now high crime/high risk, every other business in the area now suffers higher insurance rates, premiums, and deductibles and subsequently raises prices to pass the cost on to the consumer.

Insurance is gambling.
The insurance company is gambling that you, the policy holder, will be fine for X amount of time and they will make money off of you without having to pay out money.
That is their entire business model.
They really don't like it when they have to pay out, so the cost of paying out gets passed right back to you and other policy holders.
Do you own a vehicle?
Ever bought car insurance?
Insurance for red and green vehicles is higher.
Why is that?
Because they noticed that people who drive red and green vehicles get into more accidents.
So, because those idiots got into wrecks, literally everyone else in the country has to pay more for insurance if they want a car of that color.
Which is why white, gray, and black vehicles are now being sold more than any other color.
Which has impacted car sales all the way to the manufacturers and shifted what's getting produced and sold, with red and green cars more likely to sit in a lot and not get sold, which means the dealer lost money on them.

How does a business that has been looted get back to doing business?
The franchise owner has to pay a fee out of pocket to get them to start the process.
Then they'll send an assessor and lowball the cost, because they want to save money.
The franchise owner then has to contact contractors to get an estimate on the cost of repairs, which costs money. Estimates aren't free.
Then he has to get the repairs done.
Then the insurance will reimburse what they think it's worth, based on their assessor's lowball estimate from the lowest bidder contractor.
That leaves the franchise owner to cover the difference out of pocket.
He then has to pay his employees to clean up any mess. Insurance doesn't cover this.
Then he has to replace any broken furniture, fixtures, shelves, displays, etc. At cost. Which again, the insurance company will only cover X% of because they have a lowball number in mind.
They'll fully pay to replace his stock, which he has to then order, which takes time to get a truck out there and get it delivered.
Then he has to pay his employees to set up the stock and displays, and get the store back in shape to sell again.
Then, finally, he can reopen and go back to selling goods.

So, who is impacted when someone decides to loot a shoe store during a disaster, and how?
1. The franchise owner.
He has to pay insurance--both the deductible up front, then a higher premium AND deductible later, after his area is reassessed as 'high risk/high crime.'
He has to pay the difference in repairs and replacing things that insurance doesn't pay.
He has to pay his employees to do work they wouldn't have had to do if it weren't for the looters.
He has to spend days and weeks of his time working on this.
And the business is closed during it all, so the entire time he's losing money.
So in the end, this could run the franchise owner tens of thousands of dollars out of pocket that insurance just doesn't cover.
Oh, and to recoup that, he may need to lay off employees, cut pay, and raise prices.
And recouping it will take longer, because people are aware that he was closed and why, and they will be discouraged from coming back to 'that shoe store in the new ghetto that got robbed' because they don't want to risk getting robbed themselves, which costs the franchise owner money and business over time and leads to... point 3.
2. The employees.
While that store is closed for repairs and restocking, the employees can't work. A lot of them live hand to mouth, so now they're in a tight situation thanks to asshole looters.
They have to come in and clean up the mess, which they'll get paid for, but it isn't their regular job, their regular hours, and not what they signed up for. Looters have made things needlessly hard on them.
They have to come in and set the store back up again as though it were a new opening or complete remodel, which again, is more work they wouldn't have had to do if it weren't for looters.
All of this leads to more stress, financial trouble, and with the damage to the store and loss of business they're likely to be laid off.
And if they don't get laid off? They're either catching a pay cut or losing raises and bonuses, because the franchise can't afford it now.
3. You, the customer.
The business you get your shoes from got looted and had to shut down, so you decided to go elsewhere. Maybe you went to another physical store. Maybe you decided to start ordering from Amazon because it's safer. Either way, you chose not to shop there while it was closed and maybe after (which affects the franchise owner).
But suppose you wanted to go back.
Well, now the price is higher, because the franchise owner has to recoup losses. Nobody likes paying more for the same product they could get cheaper elsewhere.
There are fewer employees and they seem overworked and less friendly, because some were laid off and they're stressed about their jobs. It's no longer a nice experience.
Which encourages you to go to another store or Amazon, which causes the business to lose money, which causes wages to go down and prices to go up, which causes more customers just like you to look elsewhere, which causes the business to lose money, which causes wages to go down and prices to go up, which causes...
Until eventually...
The business goes out of business or move somewhere safer, away from the looters.
And then the community and the looters, who are statistically likely to live within walking distance (barring public transit) of the store and thus make up a large part of the community the store serves, have the fucking gall to say things like
>Why are all the businesses leaving
>Why do we have to live in food deserts
>Why do they keep adding more physical security
>Why do they have armed security
>This is racism/white flight

And all of that...
All of those people affected, jobs lost, lives changed, businesses put out of business, lost access to not just sneakers but food, medicine, and other essentials...
The loss of social order, trust, and the breakdown of social cohesion...
Over some fucking sneakers that you (the looter) didn't fucking need.
Trying to justify it as
>it just hurts the big business
just shows how ignorant you are, and your lack of ability to grasp the consequences of actions.
That, or that you're so wrapped up in 'restorative justice' or whatever political buzzwords they're using to justify it, that you see these things but either think they're disconnected or worse, believe they're worth it.

Click to shrink...

So Sinereal gave this justification on why a looter should face bodily harm in response to their crime.

It hinges on second Order effect of the crime. Not just what is being done bu the domino effect of it.

Now while I do agree woth the spirit of his message, I am unsire about the severity and that led me to think.

How much Damage did Jaune cause by forging his transcripts.

To keep it fair and not devolve into a worst case scenario Cascading fallacy, we do have to keep in mind.

-The average huntsman is like Team CRDL, Team BRNZ, and the two huntsman atop the train in V6 level.

Team BRNZ died in Vytal Crush, cardin had to be saved quite pathetically.

-The positive effect Jaune has had, A healer, and an Buff caster at minimum and by the tome shit hit the fan, same league in Team RWBY(not equal) as combatant who themselves have shown prodigious talent.

-Making sire that Winter Maiden's power doesn't fall in hands of Salem.

I am putting these arguments because if we are arguing the damage a person has caused to society, in true sense of Justice, we must also count the penance they have done in comparision.

As an Addendum:

How much Damage did Blake cause by directly supporting the White Fang's operations, even if she never killed anybody deliberately?