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Star Wars! Spoilers Allowed So Beware!

Discussion in 'General' started by Red Sectoid, Dec 21, 2015.

  1. Terthna

    Terthna Professional Lurker

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    If Episode 9 fails, I suspect that's what they'll do eventually; but it will be years, if not decades, before people will be willing to give them another chance. Not to mention the fact that Disney will need time to clean house at Lucasfilm and plan ahead, so that the same issues won't plague the next iteration of the franchise.
     
  2. aabbcc

    aabbcc Well worn.

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    Take a look at spiderman: 5 years between the Maguire and Garfield films, and only two years between those and the MCU taking over the franchise.

    As for cleaning house, Disney has more than enough money, people and clout to just replace everyone involved in one swoop and have a movie in progress while they go through the old personnel, they could even flat out give it to an established group within the company that has proven to have some competence.
     
  3. Terthna

    Terthna Professional Lurker

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    That's not a good comparison; the current controversy surrounding Star Wars is far more damaging to its brand than anything involving the Spiderman movies. There's just far too much bad blood; the fans who left are not going to come back any time soon, and five years may not be long enough for them to forget.

    As for how rich Disney is; while they could keep throwing money at the problem, that's not good business. It is a fact that the Star Wars movies bring in less and less money the longer the current status quo continues; reversing that trend any time soon will be costly (in more ways than one), and it might be smarter to just take a long break and regroup.
     
  4. snthsnth

    snthsnth Versed in the lewd.

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    Quick history, I wasn't born in time to watch the OT in theaters, but I did see Phantom and Clones in theater, and I was (at the time) okay with Revenge, but saw it out of theaters.

    I started hating new films in old franchises long before Awakens was announced, and I have large complaints with every Abrams movie I've seen. This is mostly because his rule-of-cool destroys a setting's limitations (interstellar transports in ST'09 through shields, don't need ships now) and the everything-happened-in-a-day feeling his films have. I deliberately chose not to watch it, though I've seen clips from here and there that reinforced my decision.

    I gave Rogue One a fair chance, different style, different director, different everything. Trouble I had was that it made the rebels little better than the Empire, using torture and coercion, and killing their own agents. The characters were bland or I hated them, I repeatedly confused Andor and ex-imperial pilot guy.

    Based on my hate of the other two films, I waited to see Last Jedi to see what actually critical critics said, and I don't regret not watching it. It's a clusterfuck of a film that disrespects previous installments to tell a dumb story that nobody wanted. Did anyone go into the film really wanting to see Luke as a washed up old asshole drinking blue goo almost directly from the teat? No, nobody wanted that. To see Rey train herself? No, Luke was going to train her. To see Finn (you wouldn't know about Rose at this point) go on a mission that is essentially a waste of time? No.

    I've got nothing to say about Solo, I honestly don't care at all about the film.

    ----

    Now, If Disney told me that the next director would be a good one, I'd watch it. If it was Tarantino, I'd probably watch it twice. Tarantino starts his films with, "Guys! Guys! This is going to be so much FUN!" and he's right. He makes a film you want to see, and he makes it rewarding to watch. If they have him directing, and there's no meddling from Kennedy, I'll feel secure in the film.
     
  5. aabbcc

    aabbcc Well worn.

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    Spiderman also hadn't proven it could be a good movie, it didn't have an established movie-going fanbase, and Sony could only minimally tap the MCU fanbase.

    A fanbase that hates the latest offerings is still there, still loves the old product, and can still be tapped if, through propaganda, you establish a distance between the new movie and the previous ones. Calling it a reboot is a pretty solid way of doing that.

    That's not my point.
    My point is that they don't need to 'carefully go through lucasfilm' and thus delaying any film, because they can just replace them in one swoop with people they have already paid money to hire and do any screening of the former staff at leisure.
     
  6. MadGreenSon

    MadGreenSon Verified Devil Tiger, The Childish Yandere

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    The problem they have is that Kennedy and her cronies, like other similar people in entertainment, have been really good at convincing various companies that their brand of bullshit is really widespread and popular.

    It isn't.

    It's pretty much a fringe thing that very few think is worthwhile and most of those people aren't Star Wars fans or even all that likely to spend much on tickets to Star Wars movies or related merch. The demographics are against them and thus we get shit like this happening, where each Star Wars film does worse than the one before it and the merch is rotting on shelves.

    The so-called mainstream actually represents a fair variety of interests and attitudes spread over a huge range of demographics, but the one thing it has in common is that the mainstream isn't interested in this sort of bullshit.
     
  7. MizMahem

    MizMahem Wholesomely Lewd

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    Yeah, that kind of thing just doesn't happen in well run, professional organizations, like Disney. Bob Iger is perhaps one of the greatest business leaders of this decade, he's tripled Disney's value in his tenure. You don't dress someone down like that in public. And you certainly don't threaten their jobs in public either. The very notion is absurd. This isn't the way you inspire creative types to work. Consider what the effect would be on you if you were present at that meeting. Likely you would be rightly worried that 'that could be me.' But what this inspires then is for you to look for an exit route.

    You also don't admit that an employee has some kind of hold over the company either, with an idea like 'we would fire her but we can't find anyone to take her job.' Obviously finding an able replacement is a calculus in the firing decision, but it's not one you publicly admit to. It creates an impression that Kathleen is running the company, not the CEO.

    It's not a question of money. If throwing money at a problem could solve the problem of finding good management and talent, then all management and creative problems would be easily solved. The problem is the supply of talented management and creatives is limited because identifying talented management and creative persons is hard. The list of producers/managers who have proven to be successful in producing a large, billion dollar franchise like this can probably be counted on one hand. And most of them are otherwise engaged. And of course, even if Disney was to sway say David Heyman (of Harry Potter fame) to come take up the reigns, there is no guarantee that he will be an able hand for this franchise. Indeed, Kathleen could be seen as such an example of this, as she had a fairly successful career producing a variety of Spielberg Films prior to this. And if an established hand is a risk, a person without this pedigree is an even greater risk.

    I'm not saying she is irreplacable, no one is. But it's not a trivial task that you can just throw money at and have solved. That at least is true.
     
  8. Terthna

    Terthna Professional Lurker

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    Disney may be a well run, professional organizations; but Lucasfilm is neither of those things. At this point, it's a rouge division run by an egomaniac that needed to be reminded who exactly is in charge. I mean seriously; what about insulting and slandering the consumers of your product strikes you as being "professional"?
     
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  9. MizMahem

    MizMahem Wholesomely Lewd

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    Be that as it may, it's just not how things are done in the business world. It's not like Bob Iger is like some sort of disapproving parent who's going to go, "normally we would handle this in private, but you've pissed off too many fans, so now I'm going to dress you down in front of all the rest of the management team." I mean, it's a nice fantasy, but not how the business world works. It's all about the bottom line, and actions like that are just going to hurt morale and shake the rest of the senior management teams faith in the company. And for what? It's not like it would 'scare Kathleen straight,' if you've already let loose that you want to fire her, but can't, what possible leverage could you have on her?

    And, to be clear, it's quite possible that Kathleen has been reprimanded and may be on the way out at Lucasfilm. The backlash of TLJ and Solo's poor performance (and troubled production) don't do her a lot of credit. On the other hand, it's kind of Disney's approach to let it's individual 'brands' more or less run themselves. And Lucasfilms performance may not be what the wish it to be, but it's far from outright terrible either.

    But I don't think this meeting happened in the way it is being portrayed. A member of the senior management team being 'humiliated' in front of the rest of the team just isn't plausible IMO.
     
  10. Terthna

    Terthna Professional Lurker

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    It is just a leak, so it's entirely possible that it's fake; still, your argument basically amounts to nothing more than "that's not how I perceive the business world to operate", so you'll forgive me if I take it with just as much of a grain of salt. Regardless of your perception, people are emotional animals, not logical machines; the simple fact that Kathleen Kennedy has become such a problem, and apparently decided to put personal ideology above profit, puts lie to you entire premise.

    Also I think you've misunderstood; the part about him wanting to fire her but can't is a separate rumor, I don't think it was stated to have been brought up in the meeting.
     
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