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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Flightless Man said:
After everything Renegade has been involved in, I am kind of surprised no one started a church for him when he said he was god of conquest.
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now that would be a resource worth tapping into. kind of like an extension of his current menagerie in the mountain, but Space VersionTM​. an elite troop of fanatically loyal and absolutely deferential enhanced and awakened Grayven black operators. big G could use the g-gnomes to sort through applicants, and find people that fit his needs. after everything, maybe Artemis as his Riker-esque lieutenant.
 
Darko said:
I think he meant that they thought he wanted to be worshiped after saying he's a god.

We typically think that gods want to be worshiped, so maybe they also thought he wanted to be worshiped, even though he doesn't want it.
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Yeah basically i missed the part where Zoat said in story some people worshiped him. Basically i was thinking we have so many dumb little cults in real life. if someone with tangible power arrives and claims to be a god. then does godly things like save/uplift the planet. i figured someone would start some churchs atleast. Not in a grayven wanting them to kind of way, but in a scared people want answers and aliens keep attacking maybe worshiping a space god will end the invasions.

Since a few cults/churchs have. this is exactly what i expected.

Same as i would expect for Diana if she introduced herself as Goddess of Truth or whatever she is in that canon. Since she says she is a princess i get why its not abvious with her for civillians to call her a goddess.
 
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Impartial Panic said:
Oh god don't let "Dutchess" Archer anywhere near space in DC.
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Dutchess?
Flightless Man said:
Yeah basically i missed the part where Zoat said in story some people worshiped him. Basically i was thinking we have so many dumb little cults in real life. if someone with tangible power arrives and claims to be a god. then does godly things like save/uplift the planet. i figured someone would start some churchs atleast. Not in a grayven wanting them to kind of way, but in a scared people want answers and aliens keep attacking maybe worshiping a space god will end the invasions.
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I should point out that while people in the know know that Grayven is working hand in glove with Lex, that isn't common knowledge.
 
Mr Zoat said:
I should point out that while people in the know know that Grayven is working hand in glove with Lex, that isn't common knowledge.
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That it seems was one of the few things i did understand lol.

I just remembered the discussion on how WW and Greek gods should be worshipped more since she is a tangible (demi?) Goddess. I forgot you said Grayven had gotten some worshippers, so i was confused he didn't have a few on Earth after his interview where he claimed Godhood.
 
Sordid Snake said:
In the absence of a working State (or if the State is actively malevolent) people are loyal to family, relatives and clan. Inside a larger organization (like a non-working State, or a megacorp) that loyalty expresses itself in behaviors indistinguishable from extreme nepotism and ubiquitous corruption. In fact, if the corp member refused to fix jobs for all their second-cousins and refused to use corp resources for the enrichment of their relatives their family would cut them off.

So no, areas without a working State are not full of disassociated atomized individuals that are just waiting to be poured in whatever aggregate shape desired.

If you want something like that you have to start with people who already are cut off from their families. Like abandoned orphans. But I expect G&L want employees today and not in 20 years.
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Yup.

But remember, Grayven is not an omnipotent narrator and very often wrong about things he claims are true.
 
Darko said:
They probably are making sure that the people they're hiring aren't going to be practitioners of nepotism.
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Good luck. It's an open historical question whether it's possible to train non-nepotism into a culture in less than five centuries. So far it's shown up organically once, and one common theory is that it took several centuries of the Catholic Church (for unrelated reasons) banning cousin-marriage to set up that transition, because that was what it took to break the clan system's hold on cultural norms. Diluting small groups into a larger culture where non-nepotism is established does also work, but that can't be feasibly applied here. So you're stuck with pulling outliers from a culture which mostly is nepotistic, which seems more difficult than the one Lex mentions.

Sordid Snake said:
In fact, if the corp member refused to fix jobs for all their second-cousins and refused to use corp resources for the enrichment of their relatives their family would cut them off.
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Being way richer than the community and pouring money around, so that even without favoritism all your second cousins are way better off, will help substantially there. Also hiring most of the families and having them serve on different ships and stations to deny them the chance, which will do a fair amount of good for training the instincts you want.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Dutchess?
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Maxx Crowley said:
I believe its an SF Debris reference.
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yeah SF Debris just loves ragging on archer

Mr Zoat said:
Do people mean 'Duchess'? Because there's no 't' in duchess.
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Well looks like I rolled a critical failure on my Spot and Spell checks. :confused:

So lets Keep Maxwell Lord, Sam Lane and Amanda Waller away from first contact situations.
 
Mr Zoat said:
There isn't much they can do that can't be done far more easily on a planet.
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This is objectively untrue. In fact, dismantling a planet and using it as raw materials to make habitats with spin-gravity is probably easier than terraforming, and definitely produces way more usable land per unit energy and effort invested. Dismantling the asteroid belt as a starter course is even cheaper due to the lack of large gravity wells. You can populate these things with Earth ecosystems which are already known to work in Earth conditions, which you can simulate with large solar collectors beaming energy back to the habitats.

It's honestly unlikely that any spacefaring civilization bothers with terraforming. To a people like that, planets are just valuable scrap.
 
frommerman said:
This is objectively untrue. In fact, dismantling a planet and using it as raw materials to make habitats with spin-gravity is probably easier than terraforming, and definitely produces way more usable land per unit energy and effort invested. Dismantling the asteroid belt as a starter course is even cheaper due to the lack of large gravity wells. You can populate these things with Earth ecosystems which are already known to work in Earth conditions, which you can simulate with large solar collectors beaming energy back to the habitats.

It's honestly unlikely that any spacefaring civilization bothers with terraforming. To a people like that, planets are just valuable scrap.
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That's hard SciFi logic not super hero comic logic.
 
Back Seat (part 12)
  • Threadmarks
    • 5th July 2012
    01:47 GMT

    I stand as Queen Kalista and Lord Pren enter the ship's lounge.

    "I apologise if now is an inconvenient time. I.. never actually bothered to learn what the standard Vega day cycle was."

    We're on board a karnan ship over their recently liberated homeworld, the ship serving as an effective command centre pending the construction of something a little more modern on the ground. Sensibly, they've been prioritising farms, roads and basic manufacturing over war making, which is particularly sensible since they don't have any obvious threats left.

    Lord Pren shakes his head as he walks towards me. "Ships keep their own time. While a little notice would have been nice, receiving you isn't a problem."

    Kalista sits down on the karnan-scale plush chair behind her, and Pren and I take that as the sign that we should do the same. She… Seems to be in better general health than last time I saw her, but now that my focus isn't being distracted by anything else… Euphorians are near-human in appearance, but unlike the human-but-orange-with-huge-hair Tamaraneans, the differences in her case are subtle and.. off-putting.

    "Why have you asked to see us? We have been assuming that if you wanted anything further to do with Vega you would work through Princess Koriand'r or Princess Komand'r."

    Her skin is pale pink just off a hue that a Caucasian human could have. Her eyebrows naturally forming an arc which to a human looks like someone drew a weirdly exaggerated line on her forehead. The proportions of her head are a little off as well, her eyes without either pupil or iris and her hair's naturally a dull purple. All together, she looks like she escaped the uncanny valley.

    "I was in the area on unrelated business, when I was reminded that the shield around Euphorix is still up."

    A quick scan shows me that there are a couple of Euphorian armsmen taking up station just outside of the door, probably more to prevent people walking in on us than in the belief that they'll do any good if I make an attack. I'd guess that they're liberated slaves. If they were just working away from home when the shield went up, there's no obvious reason why they'd leave wherever they were to come here.

    Lord Pren tries to maintain a poker face, but I saw the flash of desire when he realised the implication.

    "You think that you can breach it?"

    "That.. depends. Does it have an arcane component?"

    Kalista shakes her head. "No. The planet has protective wards -weak ones- but they play no part in the shield."

    "Then I should be able to teleport past it. Do you want me to? Are there any messages you wish me to relay?"

    There's a slight… Pren's using telepathy to speak to her while they appear to consider it.

    "I do deal with both magic users and telepaths on a regular basis, Lord Pren."

    "I-." They actually look at each other before Pren turns back to me. "I suppose I'm just a little surprised at the offer. Why are you making it?"

    "I take it that you're not the only telepath on Euphorix?"

    "It's… Not a common ability, but no."

    I shrug. "It's Colu. The Computer Tyrants are surviving on the networked brains of sixty billion inhabitants. My idea for getting them out involved using telepaths, but I don't have sixty billion telepaths or anything like sixty billion telepaths."

    He frowns. "How many do you have?"

    "One. I'm negotiating to hire more, but even optimistically there's going to be a big gap between the number of Coluans and the number of telepaths. And… I felt that I should probably make an effort to improve relations after… Last time."

    "You want us to agree to supply you with telepaths in exchange for bypassing the shield?"

    "I'd.. like you to allow me to offer temporary employment to any Euphorian telepaths who are interested. The work could be dangerous, and I've got no interest in forcing anyone."

    Pren relaxes slightly.

    "Also… The way I teleport is me-only by default. If you can ward yourself against damage caused by transubstantial travel through elemental realms then you could come with me. Can you?"

    He looks at Kalista, who shakes her head.

    "How can you travel to such places?"

    "It's how power rings work. If a Lantern gets good enough they don't just draw on it, they can actually transubstantiate and travel to where the power comes from. Or.. not 'comes from', exactly, but… In the case of orange, you become one with the desires of everyone and everything who is and has ever been."

    They've both sort of frozen.

    "So, yes, I can get past the shield, but bringing anyone else requires specialist equipment."

    Kalista sits up slightly.

    "I've.. only heard that described as.. a possible adverse consequence of certain forms of astral projection. How do you survive that?"

    "I'm a sample size of one, but as far as I can tell, by the time you've gotten the ability to do that, you're already so far removed from a normal conceptual framework that it isn't a problem. If you're using a ring rather than the world's magic then you literally can't do it before you're ready. I think. Like I said, sample size one."

    She stares at me, and while Lord Pren clearly doesn't have quite the same intensity of reaction, he clearly feels a little out of sorts.

    "Messages?"

    "Ah, well…" She blinks, looking away to get herself back together. "Just tell Lord Dulak to turn the shield off. It's served its purpose."

    "I'm happy to pass on a message to that effect, though I doubt that he'll just take my word for it." I wave my right hand in a circle and generate a holocamera construct. "If you'd like to rephrase?"

    Pren shrugs. "I can just tell you how to turn it off."

    "You.. could, but quite aside from the fact that I don't particularly want to either fight my way through the Euphorix military or cause planetwide panic when everyone sees the only thing keeping them safe disappears, I also don't want to pick a side in Euphorian politics without knowing a good deal more than I do now. I can pass on whatever messages you have no problem but I'm not volunteering for anything else."

    "I am the Queen."

    "Again, I don't take a position on the legitimacy of a ruler unless I have a stake in the outcome. I want a peaceful Vega and I've got it now. I can offer to deliver a message because I'm waiting for the government of Mars to finish ruminating on how they're going to rearrange their political system and possibly be a bit less racist from now on. I may also need to-." I frown. "Does Euphorix have necromancers?"

    "Yes." Kalista nods. "Not a great many, but the art of speaking to the dead is practised on Euphorix."

    "And they can raise the spirits of aliens?"

    "I believe so."

    "Excellent. I'll talk to one while I'm there." I gesture to the camera with my right hand. "Do you want to work on a script or just ad-lib it?"
     
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    • Mr Zoat said:
    but unlike the human-but-orange-with-huge-hair Tamaraneans
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    And huge breasts, don't forget that.

    Mr Zoat said:
    the differences in her case are subtle and.. off-putting.
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    Uncanny valley.

    Mr Zoat said:
    anything further to with Vega
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    'to do'

    Mr Zoat said:
    her hair's naturally a dull purple.
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    'a naturally dull purple'

    Mr Zoat said:
    All together, she looks like she escaped the uncanny valley.
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    Called it.

    Mr Zoat said:
    I-." The actually look at each
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    'They'

    Mr Zoat said:
    against damaged caused
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    'damage'

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    you've already so far removed
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    'you're'

    Mr Zoat said:
    Like I said, sample size one."
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    'of one'

    Mr Zoat said:
    of reaction he clearly feels a little out of sorts.
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    maybe add a comma 'reaction, he clearly'

    Mr Zoat said:
    when every sees the only thing
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    'when everyone'

    Mr Zoat said:
    you have no problem but
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    maybe add a comma 'have, no problem'
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "Also… The way I teleport is me-only by default. If you can ward yourself against damaged caused by transubstantial travel through elemental realms then you could come with me. Can you?"

    He looks at Kalista, who shakes her head.

    "How can you travel to such places?"

    "It's how power rings work. If a Lantern gets good enough they don't just draw on it, they can actually transubstantiate and travel to where the power comes from. Or.. not 'comes from', exactly, but… In the case of orange, you become one with the desires of everyone and everything who is and has ever been."

    They've both sort of frozen.

    "So, yes, I can get past the shield, but bringing anyone else requires specialist equipment."

    Kalista sits up slightly.

    "I've.. only heard that described as.. a possible adverse consequence of certain forms of astral projection. How do you survive that?"

    "I'm a sample size of one, but as far as I can tell, by the time you've gotten the ability to do that, you've already so far removed from a normal conceptual framework that it isn't a problem. If you're using a ring rather than the world's magic then you literally can't do it before you're ready. I think. Like I said, sample size one."

    She stares at me, and while Lord Pren clearly doesn't have quite the same intensity of reaction he clearly feels a little out of sorts.
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    I never get tired of Paul explaining all the impossible things that he's able to do, and peoples' shocked reaction to learning he can do them.

    Mr Zoat said:
    "Again, I don't take a position on the legitimacy of a ruler unless I have a stake in the outcome. I want a peaceful Vega and I've got it now. I can offer to deliver a message because I'm waiting for the government of Mars to finish ruminating on how they're going to rearrange their political system and possibly be a bit les racist from now on. I may also need to-." I frown. "Does Euphorix have necromancers?"
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    Should be 'less'.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    5th July 2012
    01:47 GMT

    I stand as Queen Kalista and Lord Pren enter the ship's longue.

    "I apologise if now is an inconvenient time. I.. never actually bothered to learn what the standard Vega day cycle was."
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    Considerate of him. But starships tend to keep their own time. And that's something you never really see people in Star Trek deal with, is it? Jet-lag between ship and surface times... Going from the middle of your day to the middle of local night... That would throw out your biological clock something fierce...

    We're on board a karnan ship over their recently liberated homeworld, the ship serving as an effective command centre pending the construction of something a little more modern on the ground. Sensibly, they've been prioritising farms, roads and basic manufacturing over war making, which is particularly sensible since they don't have any obvious threats left.

    Lord Pren shakes his head as he walks towards me. "Ships keep their own time. While a little notice would have been nice, receiving you isn't a problem."
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    I see this timeline didn't need Grayven's help with matters. Mostly because those most likely to object are either dead or driven off.

    Kalista sits down on the karnan-scale plush chair behind her, and Pren and I take that as the sign that we should do the same. She… Seems to be in better general health than last time I saw her, but now that my focus isn't being distracted by anything else… Euphorians are near-human in appearance, but unlike the human-but-orange-with-huge-hair Tamaraneans, the differences in her case are subtle and.. off-putting.

    "Why have you asked to see us? We have been assuming that if you wanted anything further to with Vega you would work through Princess Koriand'r or Princess Komand'r."
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    Well, they are still kind of in his bad books after the whole Psion Genocide debacle, despite Kori's trip to Earth. I suspect he prefers to leave them to their affairs around here. Vega is kind of like that sometimes...

    Her skin is pale pink just off a hue that a Caucasian human could have. Her eyebrows naturally forming an arc which to a human looks like someone drew a weirdly exaggerated line on her forehead. The proportions of her head are a little off as well, her eyes without either pupil or iris and her hair's naturally a dull purple. All together, she looks like she escaped the uncanny valley.

    "I was in the area on unrelated business, when I was reminded that the shield around Euphorix is still up."
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    Ah, all the subtle difference Comic Book Artists rarely make obvious, when they remember they exist at all... Something artists in the Silver Age were better at simply because many of them did more than just comic books...

    A quick scan shows me that there are a couple of Euphorian armsmen taking up station just outside of the door, probably more to prevent people walking in on us than in the belief that they'll do any good if I make an attack. I'd guess that they're liberated slaves. If they were just working away from home when the shield went up, there's no obvious reason why they'd leave wherever they were to come here.

    Lord Pren tries to maintain a poker face, but I saw the flash of desire when he realised the implication.
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    Ah, he's remembered the fact than OL has a rather potent teleportation technique, hasn't he? One that few, if any, defences can protect against... And he's getting ideas...

    "You think that you can breach it?"

    "That.. depends. Does it have an arcane component?"
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    :sneaky: Admittedly, it is a planet with a strong magical tradition, so that would be a significant concern.

    Kalista shakes her head. "No. The planet has protective wards -weak ones- but they play no part in the shield."

    "Then I should be able to teleport past it. Do you want me to? Are there any messages you wish me to relay?"
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    I mean, if you go to the leadership with a message from Kallista... Once he convinces it's real and he's not a threat...

    There's a slight… Pren's using telepathy to speak to her while they appear to consider it.

    "I do deal with both magic users and telepaths on a regular basis, Lord Pren."
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    A bit rude to start having a conversation mentally in front of someone, especially when it's about that someone...

    "I-." The actually look at each other before Pren turns back to me. "I suppose I'm just a little surprised at the offer. Why are you making it?"

    "I take it that you're not the only telepath on Euphorix?"
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    Dude, on of the most magically active worlds in the galaxy, and a short hop from Earth? Networking, dear boy, networking!

    "It's… Not a common ability, but no."

    I shrug. "It's Colu. The Computer Tyrants are surviving on the networked brains of sixty billion inhabitants. My idea for getting them out involved using telepaths, but I don't have sixty billion telepaths or anything like sixty billion telepaths."
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    Since once you start getting people out, the Tyrants will take notice, and then take action... Either you need to go in hard on the Tyrants, or free everyone at once... And neither option is an easy one.

    He frowns. "How many do you have?"

    "One. I'm negotiating to hire more, but even optimistically there's going to be a big gap between the number of Coluans and the number of telepaths. And… I felt that I should probably make an effort to improve relations after… Last time."
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    When he shouted at everyone for committing Genocide on the Psions, and getting all their slaves killed? I suspect they remember that dressing down...

    "You want us to agree to supply you with telepaths in exchange for bypassing the shield?"

    "I'd.. like you to allow me to offer temporary employment to any Euphorian telepaths who are interested. The work could be dangerous, and I've got no interest in forcing anyone."
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    To be honest, despite the danger, I could see many telepaths jumping at the chance to get off-world... Either out of a sense of heroics, boredom, or just plain curiosity...

    Pren relaxes slightly.

    "Also… The way I teleport is me-only by default. If you can ward yourself against damaged caused by transubstantial travel through elemental realms then you could come with me. Can you?"
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    Keeping in mind that it took experts in such fields some time to devise protection capable of handling it, and even then it takes them a long-ass time to set it up...

    He looks at Kalista, who shakes her head.

    "How can you travel to such places?"
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    Ah, wanting to know the details. Sign of an inquisitive mind. Even if it's only out of a sense of 'how can I prevent it?'

    "It's how power rings work. If a Lantern gets good enough they don't just draw on it, they can actually transubstantiate and travel to where the power comes from. Or.. not 'comes from', exactly, but… In the case of orange, you become one with the desires of everyone and everything who is and has ever been."

    They've both sort of frozen.
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    Hmm... Awe, surprise, or horror? I mean, consider the angle for that last kind: He dives into the emotional spectrum itself, swims around until he finds what he's looking for, and pops back out in a new location... That's like telling someone your FTL technology requires diving into Hell (which is actuallt the realm of all sapient thought in the galaxy,) navigating using the light of Humanity's greatest psychic talent, and praying that your shields don't fail... :p

    "So, yes, I can get past the shield, but bringing anyone else requires specialist equipment."

    Kalista sits up slightly.
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    And now she's interested. I mean, she's been away how long? Years? I'm sure she'd like to be able to see home again.

    "I've.. only heard that described as.. a possible adverse consequence of certain forms of astral projection. How do you survive that?"

    "I'm a sample size of one, but as far as I can tell, by the time you've gotten the ability to do that, you've already so far removed from a normal conceptual framework that it isn't a problem. If you're using a ring rather than the world's magic then you literally can't do it before you're ready. I think. Like I said, sample size one."
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    And honestly, I'm not sure any Green Lantern could do it so easily. Can you imagine swimming through the Determination and Stubbornness of all life? It's be like paddling through wet concrete.

    She stares at me, and while Lord Pren clearly doesn't have quite the same intensity of reaction he clearly feels a little out of sorts.

    "Messages?"

    "Ah, well…" She blinks, looking away to get herself back together. "Just tell Lord Dulak to turn the shield off. It's served its purpose."
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    Logical enough, just one small matter...

    "I'm happy to pass on a message to that affect, though I doubt that he'll just take my word for it." I wave my right hand in a circle and generate a holocamera construct. "If you'd like to rephrase?"
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    ...That being how to prove you're telling the truth and conveying Kallista's words. Especially without getting shot at?

    Pren shrugs. "I can just tell you how to turn it off."

    "You.. could, but quite aside from the fact that I don't particularly want to either fight my way through the Euphorix military or cause planetwide panic when every sees the only thing keeping them safe disappears, I also don't want to pick a side in Euphorian politics without knowing a good deal more than I do now. I can pass on whatever messages you have no problem but I'm not volunteering for anything else."
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    I mean, if he were a Yellow Lantern, I'm sure he'd be able to appreciate the world-wide fear that would cause. As it is, it'd be quite the nasty shock...

    "I am the Queen."

    "Again, I don't take a position on the legitimacy of a ruler unless I have a stake in the outcome. I want a peaceful Vega and I've got it now. I can offer to deliver a message because I'm waiting for the government of Mars to finish ruminating on how they're going to rearrange their political system and possibly be a bit les racist from now on. I may also need to-." I frown. "Does Euphorix have necromancers?"
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    Ah, there's an interesting thought. Still mulling over how to get Karmang's personal opinion on matter, I see.

    "Yes." Kalista nods. "Not a great many, but the art of speaking to the dead is practiced on Euphorix."

    "And they can raise the spirits of aliens?"
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    Would be good to make sure nothing untowards could happen. Like inadvertently summoning up a Burning Martian or some kind of local demon.

    "I believe so."

    "Excellent. I'll talk to one while I'm there." I gesture to the camera with my right hand. "Do you want to work on a script or just ad-lib it?"
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    I'm sure she'd like a moment to make herself presentable, if nothing else, OL. if only to make sure it doesn't look like she's a prisoner being held for ransom.

    Well, there's an angle I hadn't considered, though others did, I note. Though there'll be the question of whether those currently ruling Euphorix will want to drop the shield... After all, I'm sure they've gotten used to being in charge by now... You know, this really feels a bit like tidying up side-quests, doesn't it?
     
    Chojin Patriarch said:
    Ah, he's remembered the fact than OL has a rather potent teleportation technique, hasn't he?
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    I think this is the first time that he ever heard of this.

    He may have seen him teleport before, but he could have thought it was just the FTL thing and not something mystical.

    Chojin Patriarch said:
    That's like telling someone your FTL technology requires diving into Hell (which is actuallt the realm of all sapient thought in the galaxy,) navigating using the light of Humanity's greatest psychic talent, and praying that your shields don't fail...
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    Paul did mention that Hell may be a viable way to use magic to travel to other planets.
     
    I feel like Paul is way to free in explaining the details of his abilities. At this rate soon blocking his teleportation will be as common as anti scry.
     
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