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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
As glad as I am that this looks like it's going to be a quick fix I am somewhat confused as to what the point of it is, it just feels like an excuse to take up time

The only reason I can think of is to give OL an excuse to explore the metaphysical aspect of his abilities more than he usually would so that he'll have a better grasp on them when he returns to normal
 
jonasquinn said:
As glad as I am that this looks like it's going to be a quick fix I am somewhat confused as to what the point of it is, it just feels like an excuse to take up time
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I think it's filler.

jonasquinn said:
The only reason I can think of is to give OL an excuse to explore the metaphysical aspect of his abilities more than he usually would so that he'll have a better grasp on them when he returns to normal
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Orange Enlightenment 2.0.
 
So, I'm slightly confused as to why being killed, again, would cause him to lose his enlightenment as he did not lose it when the Pigeon of war killed him and he ended up snaking it up in heaven.

But, If I'm reading right, this is because he doesn't have all his soul "stuff" due to how Gozzi saved him? Like, she made a new body, and not all of the him-him got inside of it.

Also, way to make yourself look good in front of your apprentice OL. Nothing makes someone want to learn from you quick like getting one shot right in front of them, and them having to save you.
 
Maxx Crowley said:
Also, way to make yourself look good in front of your apprentice OL. Nothing makes someone want to learn from you quick like getting one shot right in front of them, and them having to save you.
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Hey, even Ms. "I'm going to criticize or make snarky comments about your every decision" admitted that there really wasn't a way he could have come out of that cleanly. Gozzi's smart, she's not going to judge him for getting wasted by something even the smartest species in the universe didn't see coming.
 
Maxx Crowley said:
Also, way to make yourself look good in front of your apprentice OL. Nothing makes someone want to learn from you quick like getting one shot right in front of them, and them having to save you.
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On the other hand, the capability to survive(kinda) a qwa-matter explosion sounds like another tangible benefit of enlightenment.
 
Maxx Crowley said:
So, I'm slightly confused as to why being killed, again, would cause him to lose his enlightenment as he did not lose it when the Pigeon of war killed him and he ended up snaking it up in heaven.

But, If I'm reading right, this is because he doesn't have all his soul "stuff" due to how Gozzi saved him? Like, she made a new body, and not all of the him-him got inside of it.

Also, way to make yourself look good in front of your apprentice OL. Nothing makes someone want to learn from you quick like getting one shot right in front of them, and them having to save you.
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When the pigeons killed him, they took his soul to heaven manually and we the readers followed it there, it and he were all there the whole time. This time, we aren't following the soul, or at least not the whole soul. We're following a replacement body.
 
Dragonriderjh said:
Hey, even Ms. "I'm going to criticize or make snarky comments about your every decision" admitted that there really wasn't a way he could have come out of that cleanly. Gozzi's smart, she's not going to judge him for getting wasted by something even the smartest species in the universe didn't see coming.
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Hey, I gotta take the chances to tease OL when they come.

What's it called over there? "Taking the piss"?
 
Darko said:
Ok, so he may get his enlightenment back.

Really hope this gets resolved by the next episode.

Weakening Paul, especially during the war with the Reach, just seems wrong. Especially compared to the power ups renegade has been getting.
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Would you accept it taking two episodes but he learns to duplicate the process of Enlightenment for others in the process?

I would. And it seems plausible, since a lot of fascinated Controllers will be watching the transition avidly.
 
Is this going to become another reoccurring theme for Paul? Before he would undergo a number of Mushroom Mumbo's either of his own accord or an enemy trying to mentally subjugate him, now he's dying or losing his entire body, and chances are he'll pull through all the better. Which will definitely make the enemy more hesitant or desperate, motivate his recruits to be better if they want even a inkling of what he can do, and neutral planets/organizations more likely side with the OLC or Legion since one of it's leaders and founding member seems nearly all powerful.

Plus I can't help but imagine that once he's got a whole group of lantern recruits trying to reach their own form of enlightenment he's with them and the Ophidian is either a giant or regularly sized serpent curled up on Paul's shoulders, and occasionally speaks up to tell them what she likes/desires most of her agent while experiencing their desires.
 
Maxx Crowley said:
So, I'm slightly confused as to why being killed, again, would cause him to lose his enlightenment as he did not lose it when the Pigeon of war killed him and he ended up snaking it up in heaven.

But, If I'm reading right, this is because he doesn't have all his soul "stuff" due to how Gozzi saved him? Like, she made a new body, and not all of the him-him got inside of it.

Also, way to make yourself look good in front of your apprentice OL. Nothing makes someone want to learn from you quick like getting one shot right in front of them, and them having to save you.
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'Enlightenment' means 'going through spiritual processes which change the shape of your soul'. If your soul gets damaged, you don't keep the benefits. It's like knowing everything there is to know about nuclear physics; you don't keep it after someone shoves an icepick through your brain.

I added this because it's a bit hard to have the SI be meaningfully impaired. Normally if you're in a fight then even if you win you're coming away with bruises at the very least. Get in a lot of fights in series and you'll have a darn sight more than that. But a moderately competent Orange Lantern doesn't have to worry about physical injuries, and the SI is a good deal more than that. Normally, I show losses or partial/imperfect successes by having things the SI is doing or people he's working with harmed or destroyed. But I also want to show that the Reach are capable of pulling out surprises and hurting or (in theory) killing him. We know from a metanarrative point of view that the SI isn't going to die, but in-universe only his skill is preventing that.
 
One doesn't need to be 'enlightened' to be a Powerful Lantern though, from what I've been able to tell, Enlightenment here? Wrecks your emotional balance, great for being a lantern but not so much for being human. Guy's an exception for the exact same reason that The Guardians picked the Green Light of Will, it's at the center, the most stable and least harmful of the emotional spectrum, while Avarice is on the farther end, arguably second only to Rage.
 
Lone Courier 6 said:
One doesn't need to be 'enlightened' to be a Powerful Lantern though, from what I've been able to tell, Enlightenment here? Wrecks your emotional balance, great for being a lantern but not so much for being human. Guy's an exception for the exact same reason that The Guardians picked the Green Light of Will, it's at the center, the most stable and least harmful of the emotional spectrum, while Avarice is on the farther end, arguably second only to Rage.
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True, though it does weaken him significantly, and seeing as they're fighting a war with a powerful enemy, he may not be able to afford that weakness.
 
Mr Zoat said:
I loath the idea
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loathe

Mr Zoat said:
material universe; a part associated with the Leentniar
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comma instead of semicolon

DrThoth said:
I'm coincidentally in the middle of the game, enjoying it though I'm not especially good.
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It took me a moment to realize you meant Hollow Knight, because it's a little bit hard to define the "middle" of the game for WTR given just how much content there is and how many ways there are to progress.
 
*queues up Walk by the Foo Fighters*

Let's get this whole rehab arc underway, then! Maybe we get more info on the cool esoteric orange light things like the Honden while we're at it!
 
Yeah. It seemed like because he was trying to step into the Honden as he got vaporized that a chunk of his soul get pulled into the Honden but some of it got left behind.

So unless I misread things, his soul was basically shredded and he's trying to put it back together with orange duct tape.
 
Anti-Thesis (part 2)
10th July 2012
16:01 GMT

"Why do you want an escort?"

Lantern Ragnar frowns at me as we fly towards where the L.E.G.I.O.N. flotilla are picking through the wreckage.

"I did die, Lantern Ragnar."

"For the second time. Do your species… Not die?"

"Not in the sense of becoming completely inert. How much awareness we retain after our organic death is… Variable, but I have an arrangement with my religion's God of the Dead so I'm really just expecting to open my incorporeal eyes in Erebos if someone manages to kill-me kill-me. Are you religious?"

"No, not even slightly. There are two major Source-worshipping religions on my world; one native and one not. And local… Tribal religions." He shakes his head. "But I've never cared about that; death is simply something I will face as I would any other enemy."

"That's a little unfair; Death's supposed to be quite a nice woman."

"Your people's Death God is a woman?"

"Ah… No. Our God of the Dead is male, but he's the god who rules the souls of those who have died. He's not responsible for the actual process of death."

"You have a separate God of Death and God of the Dead? Or is the God of Death merely a functionary?"

"We have a God of Death, but I've never met… Them. And I'm not completely sure that… When your gods are beings you can meet and speak to in the way I'm speaking to you, you have to take into account the fact that what your religion tells you about them might not be accurate. I'm not sure that Thanatos is.. really a separate individual from Death of the Endless, and while she can appear as pretty much anything she tends to default to female."

"Endless?" I think I'm losing him. "Are they gods in your religion? Ascended ancestors?"

"No, no, they… Okay, without wanting to get too far into magic theory, there's a thing called the Dreaming. It's sort of a giant mess of magic energy formed into unstable shapes by the thoughts and feelings of all living things. Intelligent creatures can arise from it, and they in turn can give rise to other creatures. In my religion, we call the most primal creatures 'titans' and their more material offspring 'gods'. Hades, my religion's God of the Dead, is a god. Erebos, the unliving self-aware pocket universe the souls of our dead exist in, is a titan. With me so far?"

He nods.

"Most gods are only known to their peoples' own homeworld due to the way the Dream is closer to the material universe in some places. There are… Some records of titans being known in multiple places, but they're so primal that they're almost natural forces. The Endless are a group of seven beings of vast arcane power who don't appear to be a part of the system I just described, despite having massive influence over all of everything. Sort of… Supernatural functionaries. One rules the Dreaming, one welcomes every soul to life and waves in farewell upon its physical death, one has a record of everything that has ever happened and will ever happen… I'm not entirely sure what the other…"

I was sitting on the moon.

"Four…"

I was sitting on the moon, and… Oh sugar.

"Illustres?"

"There was a period when I was merged with the Ophidian when we had a bit of a meltdown. I never really… My thoughts at the time were such a mess that I couldn't remember it very well. But… I… Think one of the Endless came to see me."

I gulp, carefully not letting my fears get above a certain psychological level because I can't do that any more without risking spacing myself.

"Desire, whose physical form is an androgynously attractive hermaphrodite of whatever species is looking at them. Apparently, we were 'a delightful mess'."

He shakes his head. "I don't know what significance that has to you, but it means nothing to me."

"I don't know what it means to me either. Probably not a lot, in practical terms. If I can't fix this myself they might be willing to give me a hand, but… Ah. The only story I heard about them actually helping someone-."

"They immediately betrayed them." He nods. "We have cautionary tales like that on Betrassus."

"Technically, they didn't betray the woman. They just… Only got them exactly what they wanted, and the woman in question didn't ask what would happen next."

"That was short sighted of her."

The edge of my construct shield begins to shimmer as we approach the site of the explosion that killed me. Ugh, Kalmin is still making preparations for his return home and wasn't interested in coming to view the site once he got enough data to conclude that it was just the result of a mass of qwa matter being detonated in the same place rather than anything creative. There's no actual qwa matter left, but q'ardajin mythology describes the stuff as a manifestation of the Anti-Monitor's hatred for creation and… Given the energy residue that I'm flying through I'm not going to dismiss the claim out of hand.

"She was only in her late teens…"

I look at Lantern Ragnar, and check how old he.. is. Probably a little older than her, but not by much. Ah, he did fail to recognise that I was a far more capable ring-duellist than him when we first met. Thinking of which…

"So when are you planning on challenging me?"

"When you are fully recovered. There is no satisfaction to be had in beating you when you are injured. I want to overcome you when you are at your best; nothing else will satisfy me."

"Could be a wait. How are you finding the war so far?"

"I have.. learned a great deal since I arrived on Maltus. War is… It is not what I thought it would be."

"What did you think it would be?"

"As it is on Betrassus; small bands of skilled warriors confronting one another to decide the wider conflict. We Lanterns in combat with their Scarab Warriors. Even after Clarissi Dox explained the.. reality to me, I did not believe it in my soul until I saw the first battles. The industrial capacities of entire worlds turned to the purpose of destruction. It's… Horrible. The sheer.. volume of death in even… Relatively trivial skirmishes. I have to use my ring to properly appreciate it. And it's made me all the more grateful to Sinestro for sparing my Sector this industrial warfare."

"Have you had a chance to fight a scarab yet? I wouldn't want you to get too disillusioned."

"No, but Clarissi Dox has promised me a mission with a high chance of encountering one."

"Oh? New offensive?"

"No." He smiles. "I'm your bodyguard until you're back to full mission fitness. The Reach will want to check that you are dead, which almost certainly means they will send the strongest Scarab Warriors they have!"

I take a moment to check the interdiction fields. Yes, they're operating.

"You know my next mission is to Qward..?"

"It was tremendously entertaining last time!"

"Illustres to Third Principle. Are the thaumaturgists ready?"

"Yes, Illustres." The commanding officer of the L.E.G.I.O.N. ship carrying them is a clicker, though not one I've interacted with before. "They are heading to the airlock now."

"Thank you."

I nod and close the channel. Just have to hope this works.
 
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Silverias said:
This feels much less like a nerf arc and more like a "Hey, let's explore more what OL's metaphysical status is."
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You might be right that I'm jumping to conclusions. It's not a nerfed arc unless the characters abilities are greatly restricted or taken away so the next chapter will decide
 
Mr Zoat said:
Do your species
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'Does'

Mr Zoat said:
That's a little unfair; Death's supposed to be quite a nice woman."
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She is best girl.

Mr Zoat said:
Or is the God of Death merely a functionary?"
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Pretty much.

Mr Zoat said:
much anything she
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'anything, she'

Mr Zoat said:
Ascended ancestors?"
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Well one of them, Despair, may be that after the other one died.

Mr Zoat said:
Desire
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The bitchhole, as Paul once called them.

Mr Zoat said:
The only story I heard about them actually helping someone-."
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Involved a lot of death.

Mr Zoat said:
preparations for his return home wasn't interested in
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'home, so he wasn't'

Mr Zoat said:
him when we first me
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'we first met'
 
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"So Gods are made by people, usually incorporating certain spiritual aspects of life, and there are things that are to gods what we are to bacteria and above all that, too big to care, is the Source"

"I don't think I beleive in that Illustres"

"Oh that doesn't matter Ragnar, as long as they believe in you"
 
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