Zig
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Belle Reve houses minors too
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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
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Belle Reve houses minors too
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
@BartlettMagic It's a little tricky to quote you when there's no text in your post outside of the quote box.
Bud-E
Stand up so I can push you down!
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@Mr Zoat Random question: Hephestean divorced Aphrodite, with him being a king without a queen, and his mother being the goddess of marriage. Is he still single or looking at possible matches? Or is he taking this time to focus on himself?
Vaermina
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From the episode, Icicle Jr specifically had to get himself tried as an adult to get into Belle Reve.
He's not even a teenager, he's twelve.
And there very specifically is a prison for teenage supervillains as Icicle Jr had to sue to be tried as an adult so they would place in him in Belle Reave. (In the Season 1 episode Terrors.)
No, he gets pissy every time, he just stops being pissy when he gets to lecture them after winning and they consider his words because that makes him feel like he completely won.
Because placing a 12 year old in a prison with adults is a very bad thing for a number of reasons.
The resources to do that are mind control, which they have.
The Light wants people who can keep the League busy, guess what he was doing?
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Mr Zoat
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He's got an eye out. He's not having a lot of success.
Ct613hulu
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Wasn't there a recurring implication that he was interested in Athena? I thought he would be pursing that relationship now that he has the opportunity.
Jankl
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They even had a child together. Erichthonius if I remember correctly. They initially lied about where the kid came from if I remember correctly.
Ardy
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Tragically Athena had to spend most of the anti-life with lifelong bachelorette Wonder Woman, and she's picked up some bad habits about admitting feelings, especially hetero ones
Zig
Not too sore, are you?
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If you are tried as an adult in America and are found guilty, you still go to juvie until you are 18.
Vaermina
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And? I am literally stating what happened in the episode.
Icicle junior was originally sent to a juvenile facility and then needed to sue to be tried as an adult to get sent to Belle Reve for the prison break.
BR549
This is filth! FILTH!!
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As I said before, Anarky is extremely high INT, but very low WIS.
...or put another way, he's a typical tweenager who thinks he knows everything.
And, given everything, he might be a lot closer to right than most kids his age who think that.
The problem is he has no clue as to the correct application of that intelligence, and since he is so smart but so unwise he fails to understand that he is unwise and thus makes no effort to fix it.
mastermenthe
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I would hate to see the Syndicate World version of Lonnie Machin.
Istaran
Know what you're doing yet?
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Sure but Paul is currently choosing to believe he personally won't have to intervene, as Lonnie takes suitable efforts to stay off his personal radar.
(That too may prove false, but Paul is occasionally an optimist.)
Darko
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Zoat, the last two links here should have 12th January above them.
ForeverShogo
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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If you're tried as an adult you go straight to an adult prison. You might be housed in a juvenile facility until your conviction, but once you get convicted that's it. It doesn't matter if you're a pre-teen.
Though Lonnie is typically too young to receive such treatment. Belle Reve is in Louisiana. If he was tried there, you can't legally be tried as an adult if you're younger than 14. Hub City is in Illinois, where you can't be younger than 13. On the Federal level you can't be younger than 15.
Though there are states that don't have a minimum age and can theoretically try anyone as an adult regardless of age.
That said . . . With the state of things, for all I know the League can just ignore that and hand down whatever punishment it feels like given they're the ones running the show. Hell, with the way things are I don't even think Lonnie got a trial.
Though Lonnie is typically too young to receive such treatment. Belle Reve is in Louisiana. If he was tried there, you can't legally be tried as an adult if you're younger than 14. Hub City is in Illinois, where you can't be younger than 13. On the Federal level you can't be younger than 15.
Though there are states that don't have a minimum age and can theoretically try anyone as an adult regardless of age.
That said . . . With the state of things, for all I know the League can just ignore that and hand down whatever punishment it feels like given they're the ones running the show. Hell, with the way things are I don't even think Lonnie got a trial.
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Vaermina
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Put like that, Orange Lantern pretty much just proved Lonnie's point for him.
Cause what OL just did is all kinds of horrible.
Frozen20XX
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Is that a line from the MCU? I think the second Captain America said that in one of his movies?
Darko
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Removing pieces from people's minds without their knowledge or consent, mind controlling innocent civilians to have them steal medical equipment that's used to treat addiction, helping a known criminal that mind controls people escape from a law enforcement agent, being part of a group that's trying to tear down the only thing that's currently keeping the planet from going into full anarchy etc.
Which of these things do you consider to be a good thing for someone to do?
At this point, Lonnie has committed several major offenses, and they know that he's intelligent and resourceful, so sending him to a lesser prison is basically asking for him to just escape or be broken out.
Vaermina
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Lonnie didn't actually do any of that though.
He was planning to, but his plans got hijacked by No Man before they could get to the point of implementation.
Really, the only crime OL actually has him on is the theft of that Luthor Corp computer, and we don't even know if Lex has pressed charges about that.
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
Captain Falcon said it in Falcon and the Winter Soldier, after spending the whole series being the cheerleader for a terrorist group.
Psychoprompt (part 9)
New
Mr Zoat
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12th January 2257
11:56 GMT
Ah, this is nice.
Pevensey Castle was over seventeen hundred years old. No reason why it wouldn't have lasted a further two hundred.
Westham is… More or less the same as I remember it, actually. The road is made of some sort of self-repairing… Stuff, and the shop fronts have changed, and the school has been completely renovated at least once since I last went there, but… Given how old the place is, two hundred years isn't really all that long.
The house I grew up in is still there, though the field that used to be behind it is now a housing estate. History… Everything that I've been able to check matches my memories. Which is…
I didn't expect to read my own obituary. And technically I didn't, it was the local me. Apparently, I died as something of a recluse. Or so I gather; that me didn't leave anything written down beyond a fairly simple Will, and his sister's family didn't feel it necessary to publicise anything.
I'm not surprised, but at the same time I'm a little disappointed.
That's… Something I should work on.
But, work.
Kral'nag, are you still talking to me?
Yes.
What little I've been able to find out about the vorlons suggests that they mostly keep themselves to themselves. What did they do to make you hate them?
It is… I am glad that I am no longer a prisoner, but I.. am.. not used to treating with others in this manner.
And I'm not used to having all of you in my head. Change is an inevitable part of existence.
Yes. That is fundamental wisdom. Tell me: what do you want?
Right now? From life?
Both.
Hm.
You know, I'm not clear how much of my mind you fellows can see.
The input of your senses. Beyond that, surface thoughts at best.
I can see a little more. I was a telepath, when I was alive.
Welcome back, narn two. If you're a narn telepath, you must have been from quite a long way back.
Quite some way, yes. I spoke up because it appears that my telepathy allows me not just to see into your mind, but into those of my fellow deceased.
You dare-?! / That's interesting. / How many fingers am I holding up?
Huh, aliens do that too.
I am still waiting to hear what you want.
Alright. Everyone, stop hassling narn 2. You're all dead, and the only living person who will hear your secrets is me. Kral'nag, I thought I was pretty clear.
Indulge me.
At this point I don't have a particular objective. I want to gain power, not because I value power in and of itself but because it makes doing things easier. I want to help all of my head guests because I said I would and because in doing so I will learn about this galaxy, and that will make sure that my future decisions are a bit better informed.
Nothing that you want to take for yourself? For your people? You feel no wrath for the minbari's vengeful slaughter of your species?
I wasn't here for the Earth-Minbar War, so I can't really take it too personally. After hearing about the Psi Corps, I'm not sure that my people should be trusted with more power and authority than we already possess. For myself…
Hm.
It surprises me how affected I am by the fact that this timeline's me died single. I should probably work on that.
That is it? The sum-total of your ambition is something most members of your species manage easily?
OW. But, for now, yes. I don't know what can be achieved. I have no particular desire for fame or renown. My material needs are already met. I suppose helping put the narn homeworld back together might be a nice place to start, but the internet sites I've read seem to agree that the Narn Regime's industrialisation focus is as much to blame as the Centauri Empire's occupation authority for the ongoing damage. And bailing people out the whole time stops them improving themselves.
True. You want nothing?
As I said to the vorlon, I want to be me. The me I am today isn't the same as the me from yesterday, and is even more different from the me of a month ago. I suspect that the me of a year from now will be even more different. Perhaps by then I'll have a concrete goal. Perhaps things will have changed to the point where I think there's a person or faction worth backing. Perhaps there'll be a crisis I want to deal with myself, or some great evil I'll want to stop. That's why I'm increasing my personal power now, while I've got few demands on my time.
You would benefit from being educated by the Servants of the Black Sun. You have the base of the true ideal, but lack the impetus.
Is.. that.. your religion?"
The Servants are enlightened agents and emissaries of our god, and the greatest enemies of the vorlons.
Why?
The vorlons demand obedience, unity and weakness from all species. The would remake the universe as a vast crystal prison, with each thing locked in its position forever.
And the Servants of the Black Sun?
The Black Sun test us with hardship. It sends enemies to kill us, that we may learn strength and resilience. It destroys our certainties, that we may learn flexibility of mind. It brings enlightenment through pain and suffering. Without the Black Sun's tests, we would still be ignorant and primitive savages on our original homeworld.
So… Darwinism by divine mandate?
Natural selection is obsoleted by comfort culture. Dominant species inevitably destroy the things which threaten them. Large predators are the first to be destroyed. Learn fire, and banish cold. Learn to farm, and banish starvation. Eventually they are left with nothing to stimulate them, and then stagnation and decay set it. The vorlons promote this infantilisation, even altering the genetics of other species to see them as emissaries of a higher power.
As you see the Servants?
I have no biology. No genetics. If I believed as I believe because they had altered me, that would no longer have any control over me. The drakh believed as we do long before the Black Sun found us worthy of communicating with us through his most exalted servants.
Hm. Okay. Counterpoints?
If I must.
Go ahead, narn two.
I lived through a harsh time in my people's history, when telepaths like me were hunted to near-extinction. During my time as a wall ornament of the Soul Hunters, I took the time to learn the history of as many of my neighbours as would speak with me. And in all that time not one of them described a time without strife, without some threat or challenge to overcome. These… Servants of the Black Sun? Yes, I remember when they visited the Homeworld. I remember what we had to do to drive them off. And I remember that we did not benefit from it, no more than our descendants benefited from the centauri occupation.
Hm. I'm inclined to agree, but I note that you don't mention the vorlons.
I know nothing of them.
Then I'm going to withhold judgement until I know more. Thank you both for speaking up. Now if you'll excuse me, I'd like to reflect on my position alone for a while.
11:56 GMT
Ah, this is nice.
Pevensey Castle was over seventeen hundred years old. No reason why it wouldn't have lasted a further two hundred.
Westham is… More or less the same as I remember it, actually. The road is made of some sort of self-repairing… Stuff, and the shop fronts have changed, and the school has been completely renovated at least once since I last went there, but… Given how old the place is, two hundred years isn't really all that long.
The house I grew up in is still there, though the field that used to be behind it is now a housing estate. History… Everything that I've been able to check matches my memories. Which is…
I didn't expect to read my own obituary. And technically I didn't, it was the local me. Apparently, I died as something of a recluse. Or so I gather; that me didn't leave anything written down beyond a fairly simple Will, and his sister's family didn't feel it necessary to publicise anything.
I'm not surprised, but at the same time I'm a little disappointed.
That's… Something I should work on.
But, work.
Kral'nag, are you still talking to me?
Yes.
What little I've been able to find out about the vorlons suggests that they mostly keep themselves to themselves. What did they do to make you hate them?
It is… I am glad that I am no longer a prisoner, but I.. am.. not used to treating with others in this manner.
And I'm not used to having all of you in my head. Change is an inevitable part of existence.
Yes. That is fundamental wisdom. Tell me: what do you want?
Right now? From life?
Both.
Hm.
You know, I'm not clear how much of my mind you fellows can see.
The input of your senses. Beyond that, surface thoughts at best.
I can see a little more. I was a telepath, when I was alive.
Welcome back, narn two. If you're a narn telepath, you must have been from quite a long way back.
Quite some way, yes. I spoke up because it appears that my telepathy allows me not just to see into your mind, but into those of my fellow deceased.
You dare-?! / That's interesting. / How many fingers am I holding up?
Huh, aliens do that too.
I am still waiting to hear what you want.
Alright. Everyone, stop hassling narn 2. You're all dead, and the only living person who will hear your secrets is me. Kral'nag, I thought I was pretty clear.
Indulge me.
At this point I don't have a particular objective. I want to gain power, not because I value power in and of itself but because it makes doing things easier. I want to help all of my head guests because I said I would and because in doing so I will learn about this galaxy, and that will make sure that my future decisions are a bit better informed.
Nothing that you want to take for yourself? For your people? You feel no wrath for the minbari's vengeful slaughter of your species?
I wasn't here for the Earth-Minbar War, so I can't really take it too personally. After hearing about the Psi Corps, I'm not sure that my people should be trusted with more power and authority than we already possess. For myself…
Hm.
It surprises me how affected I am by the fact that this timeline's me died single. I should probably work on that.
That is it? The sum-total of your ambition is something most members of your species manage easily?
OW. But, for now, yes. I don't know what can be achieved. I have no particular desire for fame or renown. My material needs are already met. I suppose helping put the narn homeworld back together might be a nice place to start, but the internet sites I've read seem to agree that the Narn Regime's industrialisation focus is as much to blame as the Centauri Empire's occupation authority for the ongoing damage. And bailing people out the whole time stops them improving themselves.
True. You want nothing?
As I said to the vorlon, I want to be me. The me I am today isn't the same as the me from yesterday, and is even more different from the me of a month ago. I suspect that the me of a year from now will be even more different. Perhaps by then I'll have a concrete goal. Perhaps things will have changed to the point where I think there's a person or faction worth backing. Perhaps there'll be a crisis I want to deal with myself, or some great evil I'll want to stop. That's why I'm increasing my personal power now, while I've got few demands on my time.
You would benefit from being educated by the Servants of the Black Sun. You have the base of the true ideal, but lack the impetus.
Is.. that.. your religion?"
The Servants are enlightened agents and emissaries of our god, and the greatest enemies of the vorlons.
Why?
The vorlons demand obedience, unity and weakness from all species. The would remake the universe as a vast crystal prison, with each thing locked in its position forever.
And the Servants of the Black Sun?
The Black Sun test us with hardship. It sends enemies to kill us, that we may learn strength and resilience. It destroys our certainties, that we may learn flexibility of mind. It brings enlightenment through pain and suffering. Without the Black Sun's tests, we would still be ignorant and primitive savages on our original homeworld.
So… Darwinism by divine mandate?
Natural selection is obsoleted by comfort culture. Dominant species inevitably destroy the things which threaten them. Large predators are the first to be destroyed. Learn fire, and banish cold. Learn to farm, and banish starvation. Eventually they are left with nothing to stimulate them, and then stagnation and decay set it. The vorlons promote this infantilisation, even altering the genetics of other species to see them as emissaries of a higher power.
As you see the Servants?
I have no biology. No genetics. If I believed as I believe because they had altered me, that would no longer have any control over me. The drakh believed as we do long before the Black Sun found us worthy of communicating with us through his most exalted servants.
Hm. Okay. Counterpoints?
If I must.
Go ahead, narn two.
I lived through a harsh time in my people's history, when telepaths like me were hunted to near-extinction. During my time as a wall ornament of the Soul Hunters, I took the time to learn the history of as many of my neighbours as would speak with me. And in all that time not one of them described a time without strife, without some threat or challenge to overcome. These… Servants of the Black Sun? Yes, I remember when they visited the Homeworld. I remember what we had to do to drive them off. And I remember that we did not benefit from it, no more than our descendants benefited from the centauri occupation.
Hm. I'm inclined to agree, but I note that you don't mention the vorlons.
I know nothing of them.
Then I'm going to withhold judgement until I know more. Thank you both for speaking up. Now if you'll excuse me, I'd like to reflect on my position alone for a while.
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Jankl
Getting sticky.
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Huh, I once asked if any other versions of Paul existed and I was told no, and here he is!
Darko
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And the part where he notified his friends and they disappeared?
Plus the part where he was friends and allies with them?
Yeah, those never happened.
I mean, I can show you the scenes where they did, but you wouldn't read them.
Ngamer11
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The first error should say 'It'. The second error is missing a full stop.
Vaermina
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Those are absolutely not Drakh history or beliefs, so either he's lying, or this is yet another case of Zoat not doing minimal levels of research.
Also, the imagery points more towards the Thirdspace Invaders then the Shadows.
The Narn telepaths all died driving the Shadows off, so the story here doesn't add up.
Darko
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"written down"
"you usually invaded them and destroyed them"
Unfortunately the Shadows interpret it in the most brutal and inefficient manner possible.
About a thousand years ago.
It makes sense.
Fingers are relatively small, so they can be useful to see if someone is able to focus.
And they're not that much better compared to the Centauri at this point.
Five or ten years after the Centauri left, the Narn invaded and enslaved another species.
They also invaded the Gaim homeworld.
Oh, yeah.
The Drakh see the Shadows as being divine, but more like angels rather than gods.
I always thought it was more Stockholm Syndrome on a species-wide scale.
But you do have an entire lifetimes worth of indoctrination, and continuing to believe in that may have been the only thing that kept you sane.
BR549
This is filth! FILTH!!
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You might want to take it a little slower than you did with Lyta. Just saying.
And that would be these guys, of course. Pefectly trustworthy fellows, they are.
And he's not wrong.
Kosh Naranek is an outlier adn should not have been counted.
The Drakh viewpoint in a nutshell: "we suffered, and so now everyone else should too".
Once again: Vir had the only right answer to the Shadows' question...
Given his position, entirely fair of Paul.
...unfortunately the opportunity to learn more is going to come very soon, as checking the timeline, Icarus is probably waking up the Shadows on Z'ha'dum right now...
Oglymogly
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One of the things I liked about B5 was the morality discussions that didn't try hard to force a answer like Star Trek did. I'm glad to see that continued here.
Still loving these chapters, thank you for sharing them!
Still loving these chapters, thank you for sharing them!
Vaermina
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They happened, they're just meaningless since nobody is going to charge a 12 year old for non-violent obstruction.
Like, you really dont seem to get that OL has functionally nothing that justifies putting a 12 year old into an adult supermax prison.
BoML
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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Huh, he's back on Earth, now.
Checking his home as he remembers it, apparently. The fact that it's *there* is noteworthy.
...now *there's* a mindscrew.
*rolls his eyes* Oh, here we go...
...alright, so he's not G'Quan, but whatever his name was, he's one of the Narn telepaths mentioned in the Book of G'Quan. Wonder if he's mentioned in it by name.
Apparently. And this would be confirmation that what the Soul Hunter's actually do trap is the soul of a sentient. Because if they were just memory engrams...they wouldn't be able to use telepathy.
If a Shadow was here to hear this, they might either be pissed off or go cross eyed from confusion. Or not, Morden got an answer from G'Kar in the show, but was disappointed by it. Why, I don't rightly know. Not ambitious enough?
Unusually reasonable conversation. I'd prefer if this conversation was being done with an actual Shadow, but that will have to wait until Morden presents himself.
No, they wouldn't, would they. The Vorlons made certain to be very discreet when they introduced telepathy into species genepool.
Checking his home as he remembers it, apparently. The fact that it's *there* is noteworthy.
...now *there's* a mindscrew.
*rolls his eyes* Oh, here we go...
...alright, so he's not G'Quan, but whatever his name was, he's one of the Narn telepaths mentioned in the Book of G'Quan. Wonder if he's mentioned in it by name.
Apparently. And this would be confirmation that what the Soul Hunter's actually do trap is the soul of a sentient. Because if they were just memory engrams...they wouldn't be able to use telepathy.
If a Shadow was here to hear this, they might either be pissed off or go cross eyed from confusion. Or not, Morden got an answer from G'Kar in the show, but was disappointed by it. Why, I don't rightly know. Not ambitious enough?
Unusually reasonable conversation. I'd prefer if this conversation was being done with an actual Shadow, but that will have to wait until Morden presents himself.
No, they wouldn't, would they. The Vorlons made certain to be very discreet when they introduced telepathy into species genepool.