With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

CTrees · Friday at 11:37 AM

Mr Zoat said:
"I suppose it would be helpful if we caught a few more with their pants down." Zatanna pulls a face-. "Metaphorically. They don't-"

Funny enough, Renegade had to deal with that particular placement of magical bugs:

Mr Zoat said:
I don't rush, or swing my fist or do anything that implies for a moment that I'm not in full possession of my faculties. I simply reach forward with my left hand, grab the chief bugfucker by the neck and hoist him up. This Is Not Your Place

"What are you-?!"

I then tear off the bugfucker's trousers, the elephantine insect which long ago replaced his auto-emasculated genitalia dangling free. It hisses at us.

Someguy Somewhere · Friday at 1:08 PM

Mr Zoat said:
"It was a manifestation of corruption and you compelled it to be honest."

She winces. "Right."

As that fellow from hades said in JLU:

"I'm a demon. The truth hurts."

Signaller · Friday at 1:09 PM

That's hilarious and cathartic.

boo600 · Friday at 4:14 PM

CTrees said:
Funny enough, Renegade had to deal with that particular placement of magical bugs:

Yes, but that insect engaged in parasitism, replacing the genitals like certain ticks replace fish tongues. The worms, as avatars of political corruption, would likely draw blood directly from the aforementioned organ, so as to serve as a stand-in for political cartoons regarding sexual acts. I would post some, but the ones I'm aware of all come from the modern day, and are thus disallowed on this site.

teikan · Friday at 5:12 PM

Frozen20XX said:
Not really? We see dragons and breezies living just fine? Its just the ponies were hidden by G5!Twilight's spell

what about griffins, changelings, yaks, buffalos?

Mr Zoat said:
Where was their food coming from?

Some Pegasi grew ornamental plants in pots on the clouds—which, of course, was not enough...

Equestria has nationwide weather management. Literally everyone encounters pegasus ponies.

Yes, but in theory, some farming clan could close its borders and withdraw.

The Froggy Ninja said:
To my, very limited, understanding, magic itself isn't gone, just pony (possibly "person") magic.

Nope, all the magic in the world vanished. The old Discord struggled immensely to use his powers in G5 because of the crystals.

Frozen20XX said:
at least the Student Six were decent enough characters on their own?

no

G5, despite claiming to be a sequel to G4, was pretty much just using it to artificially gain interest from the G4 fanbase due to it mostly doing its own thing and playing loose with the lore of the previous gen.

but still canon.

Mr Zoat said:
I'll take your word for that. I hope not, because if they are then I'd feel bad for them when they try getting a job without any qualifications or skills.

They are children closely connected to the leaders of their respective nations, having acquired a significant number of political ties within this institution. It is the rest of the students who truly deserve hope.

Wait, she told ponies? And they didn't immediately put aside their differences in order to violently stop her?

Apparently not, but Canterlot isn't lying in ruins for nothing.

Edit: Wait a moment, wait a moment. Rainbow Dash was still alive when this was happening? Rainbow 'I live to fly' Dash had the magic that allowed her to do that yanked from her body by Twilight Sparkle, and she was okay with that? While presumably still being friends with the rest of the Mane Six? What? I was assuming that this was happening long after the other five died, and Twilight was already spiralling.

Yes. She was clearly very upset, but she didn't try to stop her. Nah, the others were almost certainly alive.

Frozen20XX · Friday at 5:31 PM

teikan said:
what about griffins, changelings, yaks, buffalos?

The show didn't get far enough to tell us what happened. But just because we don't see them doesn't mean they're extinct or anything.

Although Spike revealed that, like the ponies Unity Crystals, all dragon magic was stored in a 'Dragon Stone', meaning that it wasn't just Twilight who gathered her peoples magic in a crystal. Quite literally, its possible all the rulers went along with it; presumably because they trusted Twilight that it was a way to keep the magic safe from Opaline.

Some Pegasi grew ornamental plants in pots on the clouds—which, of course, was not enough...

Well, if they can't fly or manipulate the weather anymore, they had nothing else better to do but learn how to farm.

Nope, all the magic in the world vanished. The old Discord struggled immensely to use his powers in G5 because of the crystals.

Well, the spell keeping Equestria hidden from Opaline was still up and the ponies still had Cutie Marks. So, more accurate to say that 99% of the magic was gone.

no

Well, in my opinion they were decent (Gallus was my fav). But I can respect yours.

but still canon.

Unfortunately.

They are children closely connected to the leaders of their respective nations, having acquired a significant number of political ties within this institution. It is the rest of the students who truly deserve hope.

Silverstream was a princess... the rest were pretty much just random civilians. Heck, Gallus was living on the streets prior to the School of Friendship being founded.

Though the fact the Spirit of Harmony seemingly choose them as the next generation of Elements means they probably got a lot of good will.

Yes. She was clearly very upset, but she didn't try to stop her. Nah, the others were almost certainly alive.

When Spike appeared in G5, he actually seemed baffled that the ponies lost magic, implying that either it wasn't apart of the -proposed- plan or somehow every race BUT the isolationist ponies managed to keep their magic... because unlike the ponies, the other races had their magic stored in one crystal instead of three.

Edit:

Mr Zoat said:
"Because we don't want you going extinct, Agent Pharynx. Your population needs the capacity to produce grubs, or you don't have a future."

This just reminded me of some fics I read where Thorax suddenly gained the ability to produce changeling eggs as a result of his ascension to a Changeling King. Those were funny.

Jankl · Friday at 10:59 PM

So Umm just curious. Do New Gods need to breathe or not? I remember Grayven saying he doesn't need to breathe but I am uncertain if that is because of being a New God or because he has a power ring.

Mr Zoat · 2026-10-10T07:24:02+0100

12th October 2013
14:57 GMT -5

"Sir..? What do you mean by 'useful'?"

"Exactly what I said. We want the Federal Government to start operating again, but we do not want them to get in the way of our work. I'm going to send Mister Miracle to assist you. Do not allow the arrests to become public knowledge."

"Sir..?"

"If it turns out that they were voluntarily associated with some sort of corrupt cult, we can press charges. But until that is confirmed, I see no reason to damage their reputations or risk ours."

"So… Bring the police in by boom tube as well?"

"Or by ring. I'll leave the details up to you."

"Okay, I can manage that. But going back to-"

His face vanishes from above my ring.

"-useful-?"

I could ring him back, but… It's not as if I can't work it out. Arresting a large number of elected officials will remind the rest who's really in charge. And revealing the existence of these worms will show everyone why we're the ultimate authority. Because… He's not wrong about the Federal Government getting in the way being a bad thing.

I just…

BOOM!

I lower my privacy screen construct as Scott Free and Big Barda walk in through a hole in the fabric of spacetime, while across the room, Roy nods at the face on his communicator and closes it down. "They're gunna need a little while to get enough people together, but they're calling in off-duty officers right now."

"Good. Mister Miracle? Barda? Did Batman brief you?"

Barda scowls. "Batman has grown demanding."

Mister Free shrugs. "He's under a lot of pressure. What's-?" He spots the remains of the worm. "Ooh." He pulls out his multi-cube and scans it. "This isn't a magical avatar. This is a physical body."

Zatanna frowns at it. "Are you sure?"

"Pretty much. Since it's physically… You know, sundered, it would be radiating stored magic as it started decaying if it was made of magic."

"But… There's a binding…"

She shows him the drawer. He takes a look, and then shrugs. "I never learned… Whatever notation this is. Are you sure it's not doing something else?"

"I… Maybe? It's binding them to something."

"Is it binding it to Senator Covington?"

"His blood would be enough to do that."

"I'm just wondering if this worm body was made from his tissue, and if the spirit of the worm is back in its host."

"Ahhhhh-. Nruter ot ruoy sniamer!"

The worm-ooze bubbles and undulates-. And then vaporises.

"Zatanna?"

"Some sort of contingency spell. Ecart!"

A light appears for a moment over the Washington map, and then it splutters and catches fire! I extinguish it, and work out where that light appeared.

"That's… June Finch's office. She wasn't on the binding seal list."

Tony's eyes widen. "She's also the chair of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions."

"That's…" Convenient. Suspiciously convenient, but it would explain-. No, because-.

Mr. Free leans over Zatanna to look at the map. "Are we paying her a visit first?"

"We have to, right now, because that spell will almost certainly notified her. Mister Miracle?"

He waves the multi-cube over the map, returns it to his belt and then nods. "Mother Box?"

"Ping."

BOOM!

Heavy armour, construct armour, and walk-.

Barda shoves me aside and walks through first.

I recover and follow her through a moment later-.

Euww…

The Senator has… Uh, worms plural, moving in and out of her body, popping out of patches of exposed skin before sliding back in with only a brief bulge in the flesh to mark their passing. Her natural human eyes have been replaced by worm-eyes, and… My empathic vision isn't so much being blocked as glitching.

"Senator… Are you in there?"

"Yes."

Her voice sounds… Pretty normal. Considering.

"Are you in control, there?"

Zatanna steps through the portal and gasps, quietly.

"I am more in control of my life now than I have been for years."

"Excuse my scepticism."

Mister Miracle comes through next, stares for a moment and then picks up his multi-cube.

"Could you please explain..? This?"

"This is me paying recompense for my sins. All of us paying recompense for all of our sins."

"And what sins would those be?"

"What we did at Mannheim's command. And before that. I had such grand ideas before I was elected, and then I came here and I abandoned every single one in short order."

"Is that when you acquired the worms?"

"One for every abandoned dream, and idea, and betrayal. These are my worms, Orange Lantern, and they are still with me."

"Zatanna?"

"I.. could… Probably get rid of them, but I don't know what that would do to her."

Darn it. "How are the worms supposed to absolve you?"

"I feed them the blood of a traitor. My blood. Once I've fed them enough, then they will leave."

"Okay, that's… Nice. But you'll be feeding them from a cell from now on."

Darko · 2026-10-10T07:27:52+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Barda scowls. "Batman has grow demanding."

"grown"

Mr Zoat said:
"I feed them the blood of a traitor. My blood. Once I've fed them enough, then they will leave

I doubt that.

CrazyNoVa · 2026-10-10T07:36:35+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"I feed them the blood of a traitor. My blood. Once I've fed them enough, then they will leave."

"Okay, that's… Nice. But you'll be feeding them from a cell from now on."

Or, hear me out…we can gather them up, give them all guns, and then:

NightmareWarden · 2026-10-10T07:56:09+0100

She's a moron for thinking the worms are trustworthy. Or at least, MORE trustworthy than the divinely-gifted superhero organization which is allied with the angel Zuriel. The teleporting group of magic users, not the Justice League.

Surely someone in the league sent a memo around that a FAKE Uncle Sam was defeated last year. Right? So an intelligent adult could just... Talk about making blood donations with their magical safety advisors, rather than... Whatever this was.

Arsenal's involvement here seems unnecessary so far. I DO like the guy. But this level of control didn't have any violence to enforce the blood-drinking.

Also, is June related to the Mr Finch working for renegade!Lex? Is Paragon June Finch married to someone in Lex's security forces (rather than a non-existent space force)?

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-10-10T08:02:26+0100

Mr Zoat said:
12th October 2013
14:57 GMT -5

"Sir..? What do you mean by 'useful'?"

"Exactly what I said. We want the Federal Government to start operating again, but we do not want them to get in the way of our work. I'm going to send Mister Miracle to assist you. Do not allow the arrests to become public knowledge."

Bats, that sounds a lot like you want the League to stay in charge of Earth. This is and always has been a temporary arrangement, and extending it past the point the world can manage itself is not a good plan.

"Sir..?"

"If it turns out that they were voluntarily associated with some sort of corrupt cult, we can press charges. But until that is confirmed, I see no reason to damage their reputations or risk ours."

Sensible, but unsatisfying.

"So… Bring the police in by boom tube as well?"

"Or by ring. I'll leave the details up to you."

Hoo-boy. Batman seeming super-suspicious now.

"Okay, I can manage that. But going back to-"

His face vanishes from above my ring.

"-useful-?"

Let's hope that's just Bat-speak for 'Until everything is safely working without us' that does not sound good.

I could ring him back, but… It's not as if I can't work it out. Arresting a large number of elected officials will remind the rest who's really in charge. And revealing the existence of these worms will show everyone why we're the ultimate authority. Because… He's not wrong about the Federal Government getting in the way being a bad thing.

That's the insidious part of this. It all seems reasonable until you look back and wonder when you became Kings of the Earth...

I just…

BOOM!

That'll be his backup.

I lower my privacy screen construct as Scott Free and Big Barda walk in through a hole in the fabric of spacetime, while across the room, Roy nods at the face on his communicator and closes it down. "They're gunna need a little while to get enough people together, but they're calling in off-duty officers right now."

Let's hope they can be discreet about all this. Especially the cops called back on-duty on their days off...

"Good. Mister Miracle? Barda? Did Batman brief you?"

Barda scowls. "Batman has grown demanding."

That happens when he and Mister Atom are about the only things keeping things stable and directed at the top level.

Mister Free shrugs. "He's under a lot of pressure. What's-?" He spots the remains of the worm. "Ooh." He pulls out his multi-cube and scans it. "This isn't a magical avatar. This is a physical body."

Zatanna frowns at it. "Are you sure?"

So... Not summoned, but a fully physically manifested creature. That almost makes it worse.

"Pretty much. Since it's physically… You know, sundered, it would be radiating stored magic as it started decaying if it was made of magic."

"But… There's a binding…"

Hard to gainsay someone who's mystically tied to the Source of all things.

She shows him the drawer. He takes a look, and then shrugs. "I never learned… Whatever notation this is. Are you sure it's not doing something else?"

"I… Maybe? It's binding them to something."

Well, at least he doesn't know everything magical.

"Is it binding it to Senator Covington?"

"His blood would be enough to do that."

So, then... Where did it come from and how was it persuadign peopel to donate blood to it?

"I'm just wondering if this worm body was made from his tissue, and if the spirit of the worm is back in its host."

"Ahhhhh-. Nruter ot ruoy sniamer!"

The worm-ooze bubbles and undulates-. And then vaporises.

...And apparently it didn't like that.

"Zatanna?"

"Some sort of contingency spell. Ecart!"

A light appears for a moment over the Washington map, and then it splutters and catches fire! I extinguish it, and work out where that light appeared.

No juking this pursuit with simple tricks like that.

"That's… June Finch's office. She wasn't on the binding seal list."

Tony's eyes widen. "She's also the chair of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions."

'HELP'? Gee, governmental naming conventions...

"That's…" Convenient. Suspiciously convenient, but it would explain-. No, because-.

Mr. Free leans over Zatanna to look at the map. "Are we paying her a visit first?"

"We have to, right now, because that spell will almost certainly notified her. Mister Miracle?"

Clock's ticking. Good thing they have fast travel capabilities.

He waves the multi-cube over the map, returns it to his belt and then nods. "Mother Box?"

"Ping."

BOOM!

"Making the magic happen, baby." Not the quietest route, but efficient.

Heavy armour, construct armour, and walk-.

Barda shoves me aside and walks through first.

She's probably having a moment of 'How cute, trying to play the Tank.'

I recover and follow her through a moment later-.

Euww…

Oh god, how bad is it?

The Senator has… Uh, worms plural, moving in and out of her body, popping out of patches of exposed skin before sliding back in with only a brief bulge in the flesh to mark their passing. Her natural human eyes have been replaced by worm-eyes, and… My empathic vision isn't so much being blocked as glitching.

...Bad. Oh, that's got to be horrifying to look at.

"Senator… Are you in there?"

"Yes."

Her voice sounds… Pretty normal. Considering.

Gee, you think? I'm amazed she's even vocal.

"Are you in control, there?"

Zatanna steps through the portal and gasps, quietly.

Another thing for her therapist to deal with.

"I am more in control of my life now than I have been for years."

"Excuse my scepticism."

Now, is she the brains behind this, or merely a catspaw?

Mister Miracle comes through next, stares for a moment and then picks up his multi-cube.

"Could you please explain..? This?"

I bet even he and Mother Box are slightly disgusted by what they're seeing.

"This is me paying recompense for my sins. All of us paying recompense for all of our sins."

"And what sins would those be?"

I would assume... Anti-Life actions.

"What we did at Mannheim's command. And before that. I had such grand ideas before I was elected, and then I came here and I abandoned every single one in short order."

"Is that when you acquired the worms?"

So, deep regret. But she's still in office, so she has to appear normal part of the time, surely?

"One for every abandoned dream, and idea, and betrayal. These are my worms, Orange Lantern, and they are still with me."

"Zatanna?"

Good luck getting any useful advice, OL, this is too gross.

"I.. could… Probably get rid of them, but I don't know what that would do to her."

Darn it. "How are the worms supposed to absolve you?"

Take one guess, OL.

"I feed them the blood of a traitor. My blood. Once I've fed them enough, then they will leave."

"Okay, that's… Nice. But you'll be feeding them from a cell from now on."

Mostly to prevent them draining her dry, I suppose.

I can't imagine she's the only one acting as a source of these things, or that she's the sole responsible party. It's going to take some interrogation to determine how and why these things showed up, when, who and where they first made contact and what they're doing with the blood. It can't all be going to Uncle Sam, can it?

NightmareWarden · 2026-10-10T08:45:52+0100

So Red Tornado's appearances in this fic have dropped over the years. The effects of the Sidhe invasion, Anti-Life, and society's downturn from his point of view weren't discussed. So far his comic counterpart's connection to magic hasn't come up in any of Dr Mist's scenes.

He hasn't been blasted to pieces in the whole story, as far as I can tell, which is a better fate than most DC comics. He turned down almost every chance to upgrade his abilities. His relationship with Alan is as weak as it was decades ago, but I think Alan is blameless there.

I don't think anyone from the original Team kept in contact with him or formed a notable bond, right? There hasn't been any indication that he has kept in contact with the Genomorphs since the legislation hearing/ceremony Luthor assisted with; he's probably blameless on that, communication barrier and all.

I don't THINK he has assisted any AI's reform efforts, like Paul did human criminals. He hasn't showed an interest in developing his soul, like Paul did with his tattoos. His technology was used for weather control testing, but I don't think he was present for any of the testing. He's obviously not assisting in Zeus's reeducation in weather, since Zeus was probably kidnapped while barred from Olympus. Red Tornado hasn't found a sidekick nor built a child.

I feel bad for him. Kaldur at least has some stuff going on, but the stoic robot... I dunno. It feels like any alternate universe version of him, meeting them, would be unsatisfying. His relationship with his siblings exists, but they haven't exactly leaned on his League resources or insights. The interesting members of his nemesis list are down to "Dr. Impossible," though I can't confirm that is canon for this series. Could have just been from Paul's memories.

I want to joke and say "he is lex luthor's favorite superhero," but it is just strange, the longer I think about it. I sort of hope he takes a break from work and goes to visit the Flash. Or I sort of hope Superwoman destroys him, as a sticking point in a series of anomalies related to her long term WTR plotline- "why do we care more about how bad she feels than fear/protectiveness for our League colleague?"

Dr Morrow isn't important enough for Paul to request Highfather cure him. Red Tornado would have read about that mission report of Paul's.

Mr Zoat · 2026-10-10T09:44:25+0100

Darko said:
"grown"

Thank you, corrected.

Dur'id the Druid · 2026-10-10T09:59:42+0100

If she is almost made of worms at this point, what makes people think she's being honest with her confession here?

Darko · 2026-10-10T12:55:15+0100

NightmareWarden said:
She's a moron for thinking the worms are trustworthy

Or just really, really desperate.

Not to mention the fact that the worms may have altered her mind.

NightmareWarden said:
Or at least, MORE trustworthy than the divinely-gifted superhero organization which is allied with the angel Zuriel. The teleporting group of magic users, not the Justice League.

It wasn't that long ago that the Silver City invaded the planet, so their credibility may not be that great.

NightmareWarden said:
Surely someone in the league sent a memo around that a FAKE Uncle Sam was defeated last year. Right

Assuming they read it.

And even if they read it, they may have forgotten about it, since Anti-Life happened after that.

Mr Zoat · 2026-10-10T14:19:44+0100

Darko said:
It wasn't that long ago that the Silver City invaded the planet, so their credibility may not be that great.

But they said 'my bad', so that's okay.

Hey, it worked for Discord.

But seriously, they killed a few satanists and heretics and the SI. Some people were shocked that they went after Orange Lantern but had left Klarion alone, but others pointed to the other people they killed and said something along the lines of 'clearly he was up to something', which... To be fair, he was.

CrazyNoVa · 2026-10-10T15:03:15+0100

NightmareWarden said:
So Red Tornado's appearances in this fic have dropped over the years. The effects of the Sidhe invasion, Anti-Life, and society's downturn from his point of view weren't discussed. So far his comic counterpart's connection to magic hasn't come up in any of Dr Mist's scenes.

He hasn't been blasted to pieces in the whole story, as far as I can tell, which is a better fate than most DC comics. He turned down almost every chance to upgrade his abilities. His relationship with Alan is as weak as it was decades ago, but I think Alan is blameless there.

I don't think anyone from the original Team kept in contact with him or formed a notable bond, right? There hasn't been any indication that he has kept in contact with the Genomorphs since the legislation hearing/ceremony Luthor assisted with; he's probably blameless on that, communication barrier and all.

I don't THINK he has assisted any AI's reform efforts, like Paul did human criminals. He hasn't showed an interest in developing his soul, like Paul did with his tattoos. His technology was used for weather control testing, but I don't think he was present for any of the testing. He's obviously not assisting in Zeus's reeducation in weather, since Zeus was probably kidnapped while barred from Olympus. Red Tornado hasn't found a sidekick nor built a child.

I feel bad for him. Kaldur at least has some stuff going on, but the stoic robot... I dunno. It feels like any alternate universe version of him, meeting them, would be unsatisfying. His relationship with his siblings exists, but they haven't exactly leaned on his League resources or insights. The interesting members of his nemesis list are down to "Dr. Impossible," though I can't confirm that is canon for this series. Could have just been from Paul's memories.

I want to joke and say "he is lex luthor's favorite superhero," but it is just strange, the longer I think about it. I sort of hope he takes a break from work and goes to visit the Flash. Or I sort of hope Superwoman destroys him, as a sticking point in a series of anomalies related to her long term WTR plotline- "why do we care more about how bad she feels than fear/protectiveness for our League colleague?"

Dr Morrow isn't important enough for Paul to request Highfather cure him. Red Tornado would have read about that mission report of Paul's.

Hey, you're right! That's actually a good question: Whatever did happen to Red Tornado or his siblings since we last saw them? I assume they're either helping the League with the cleanup of the Anti-Life crisis, or minding their own business, but we haven't seen them in a while, so we can't be sure.

Zig · 2026-10-11T07:15:45+0100

CrazyNoVa said:
Hey, you're right! That's actually a good question: Whatever did happen to Red Tornado or his siblings since we last saw them? I assume they're either helping the League with the cleanup of the Anti-Life crisis, or minding their own business, but we haven't seen them in a while, so we can't be sure.

Red Inferno is probably human enough that the anti life was a problem for her she may well not have fully recovered. I don't recall if Torpedo got the same treatment but the ones not affected by it are probably focusing on the ones who were

Darko · 2026-10-11T07:16:39+0100

Zig said:
Red Inferno is probably human enough that the anti life was a problem for her she may well not have fully recovered

Inferno is living with her wife and stepson.

Mr Zoat · 2026-10-11T08:01:48+0100

10th April 2258
13:27 G.M.T. +1

I drop down in my seat across from Mayan with a sigh, and… She's glaring at me?

"I didn't realise that you found my talk so offensive."

I roll my eyes, reach down, fabricate copies of the arrest records of my targets and then pass them to her.

She takes them, frowning. "What is this?"

"The people I prevented murdering you, you delightful living target." She blinks. "I felt that as poignant as it would have been for you to die mid-speech, it would probably work out better if a member of the Grey Council didn't have one of her friends killed on Earth by human hands."

She opens the charge sheets one after the other, skimming the front sheets before closing them and sitting back.

"Thank you."

"You're welcome. You know, it seems to me that we could arrest the entirety of the Homeguard, just by having you travel around and give speeches next to their regional offices."

"I do not particularly enjoy being the target of such attacks. Having seen the way in which people respond to me, I have been forced to conclude that you may be correct."

"It has been known to happen."

"I still want to encourage rapprochement between our species, but it has occurred to me that I did not ask a human what they thought the best approach would be. What do you advise?"

"The only people interested in listening to you right now are people who don't bear a grudge anyway. I haven't really thought about it in any detail, but… Off the top of my head, you could either go to a small colony and work as a literature teacher so the people there can get to know you as an individual, or get a job with a newspaper and write a… Travel log or something."

She nods, thinking it over for a moment.

"What is a 'newspaper'?"

I blink. "What?"

"It is the first thing I have heard you say that did not receive a translation."

"That-. Right, Rot Lop Fan. You don't have a concept of it, so there's nothing to translate it to."

"And now a second word. What is 'Rot Lop Fan'?"

"That's a rather deep rabbit-hole."

"And now I understand the words, but not the meaning."

"In English, the term 'rabbit hole' is used both for the entrance to a rabbit's burrow, and also for a subject which, while apparently simple on the surface, can be explored at length and constantly reveal new twists and turns… Like a rabbit's burrow."

She regards me with puzzlement for a moment. "Matthew, what do you think my job is?"

I grin. "Aw, dang. Sick burn."

"It was not my intent to burn you."

"I know. That makes it better." I fabricate a copy of Tales of the Green Lantern Corps Annual number 3… And translate it into the Religious Caste version of the minbari language… And the variant that Mayan writes most of her poetry in. "But what has been learned cannot be unlearned."

"A human student told me that humans unlearn things with alcohol."

"Heh, sort of. But seriously, it may completely change the way you view the universe. I mean, the gods of comedy and madness are always looking for converts, but you seem happy as you are."

"I doubt that a children's book would induce delirium."

"Alright." I pass it over. "This was written two hundred and seventy seven years ago, two years before I was born."

"'Tales of the Green Lantern Corps'. And you are an Orange Lantern."

"Yes."

She studies the cover for a moment, and then turns to the first page. "Other colors of Lantern exist?"

"If they do, I haven't seen them."

She turns another page, and reads it. "Rot Lop Fan's species have no eyes, and so he has no concept of light. And minbari have no concept of what a newspaper is. From the etymology, I assume that it is a paper containing information on new things."

"Nearly. They're regularly published… Pamphlets? Which contain current affairs information and analysis. And sports."

"And who has access to them?"

"Anyone with five credits?" She starts frowning. "What?"

"Everyone has access."

"Yes."

"I see. And there is more than one?"

"Yes. Most cultivate an audience who sees the universe a particular way, and write to appeal to them. Thus ensuring that there's a diversity of opinion in the public space."

"I-." She frowns. "Why is that better than speaking directly to your intellectual elite? Surely, having the ideas I present evaluated by those experts and then disseminated more broadly would be more efficient? More respectful to your cultural institutions?"

"Mayan, no one-. Very few people, respect the literature department. And most of the other parts of our institutions aren't widely respected."

"Then why do they occupy these positions?"

"Because the people who gave them those positions do respect them. They're just a small part of human civilisation as a whole. Look, I-. I get the impression that minbari society is highly regimented. Stratified. There's a clear sense of hierarchy and just about everyone sticks to it."

She waits a moment for me to make my point.

"Yes?"

I shake my head. "Human civilisation does not work like that."

She frowns thoughtfully. "You told me that many of you hold your president in contempt. I did not appreciate that such an attitude extended more broadly."

"Yeah… For winning humans over, I really think that working from the bottom up, either by fully integrating yourself into a community or by embracing celebrity-."

Mayan gasps. She's… Staring at the comic.

"This is a work of fiction."

"Yes."

"Is it based on encounters between your species and those amongst the First Ones who sponsor you?"

"Not to the best of my knowledge."

"The ring depicted here is the same as the one you wear."

I nod. "It's the same technology, yes. As far as I'm able to determine."

"But this is fiction."

"Do you know what the difference between fiction and reality is?"

She drags her eyes up to me. "Yes."

"The quote I am referring to is this: 'The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense.'" Her language only. "I wear on my hand a device that grants me the powers of its fictional alter-ego, so either a First One is a big fan of twentieth century comics, or we have complete confirmation that the universe we live in is real and not fictional."

I lean a little closer, smiling.

"Because no one with a scrap of talent or skill would write something like this."

She doesn't manage to focus on me, and her breaths are sharp.

"I think… I think I need to meditate." She nods to herself. "At length."

"Entirely understandable. I'll keep the assassins off you while you're busy."

Vaermina · 2026-10-11T08:12:12+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"The quote I am referring to is this: 'The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense.'" Her language only. "I wear on my hand a device that grants me the powers of its fictional alter-ego, so either a First One is a big fan of twentieth century comics, or we have complete confirmation that the universe we live in is real and not fictional."

This whole bit falls flat because she has no evidence you didn't just make everything in the comic up yourself.

RichardWhereat · 2026-10-11T08:14:30+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"Because no one with a scrap of talent or skill would write something like this."

Fair

Yog · 2026-10-11T08:14:43+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"The quote I am referring to is this: 'The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense.'" Her language only. "I wear on my hand a device that grants me the powers of its fictional alter-ego, so either a First One is a big fan of twentieth century comics, or we have complete confirmation that the universe we live in is real and not fictional."

Or a First One wanted to give him a set of abilities, while obscuring their identity, so they went through his mind to find a fictional device with similar functionality, and replicated its abilities (and limitations) with their own technology.

Do Green Lantern comics exist in-universe? Because that's bound to raise questions quickly.

Jankl · 2026-10-11T08:18:53+0100

Vaermina said:
This whole bit falls flat because she has no evidence you didn't just make everything in the comic up yourself

The comic must exists in that universe, Mr. zoat said that history up until that point was basically identical to ours. And if Mayan doesn't believe him it should be easy to prove it. But Mayan seems like a woman who would take people at their word so I doubt that would be an issue.

Darko · 2026-10-11T08:29:53+0100

Mr Zoat said:
variant that Mayan write most of her

"writes"

Mr Zoat said:
"A human student told me that humans unlearn things with alcohol

And drugs.

The drugs may be a safer option for you.

Mr Zoat said:
But serious, it may completely change the way you view the universe. I mean, the

"seriously"

Mr Zoat said:
"I doubt that a children's book would induce delirium

Ehh, some child books can be pretty weird and dark.

Mr Zoat said:
have no concept what a newspaper is.

"of what"

Mr Zoat said:
. And most of the other parts of our institutions aren't widely respected

Matthew: Trust me. That philosophy degree does not bring in the big bucks.

Mr Zoat said:
"The quote I am referring to is this: 'The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense

And reality is stranger than fiction.

Vaermina said:
This whole bit falls flat because she has no evidence you didn't just make everything in the comic up yourself.

After everything she's experienced with Matthew, this isn't that hard to believe.

BR549 · 2026-10-11T08:34:50+0100

...huh. I forget, is this the first Paul who's straight-up told someone about the whole "where I came from, this is fiction" thing?

(Ambush Bug Georg is an outlier adn should not be counted.)

Vaermina · 2026-10-11T08:48:17+0100

Jankl said:
The comic must exists in that universe, Mr. zoat said that history up until that point was basically identical to ours. And if Mayan doesn't believe him it should be easy to prove it. But Mayan seems like a woman who would take people at their word so I doubt that would be an issue.

But history wasn't identicle, at least, not according to the show/movies.

Darko said:
After everything she's experienced with Matthew, this isn't that hard to believe.

It actually is, because he has no way to know if a race of First Ones did what she suggested or not.

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-10-11T08:54:33+0100

Mr Zoat said:
10th April 2258
13:27 G.M.T. +1

I drop down in my seat across from Mayan with a sigh, and… She's glaring at me?

"I didn't realise that you found my talk so offensive."

Ah, she noted his absence and is assuming it's because he didn't like her subject? From the sound of it, there might well have been additional attacks she didn't even notice thanks to him.

I roll my eyes, reach down, fabricate copies of the arrest records of my targets and then pass them to her.

She takes them, frowning. "What is this?"

I would hope they include any previous offences or military careers, just for completeness.

"The people I prevented murdering you, you delightful living target." She blinks. "I felt that as poignant as it would have been for you to die mid-speech, it would probably work out better if a member of the Grey Council didn't have one of her friends killed on Earth by human hands."

And given what Delenn did when her mentor was murdered, just imagine how pisses she'd be over losing a childhood friend.

She opens the charge sheets one after the other, skimming the front sheets before closing them and sitting back.

"Thank you."

Speed-reading being a talent she'd need to cultivate as an author, I bet.

"You're welcome. You know, it seems to me that we could arrest the entirety of the Homeguard, just by having you travel around and give speeches next to their regional offices."

"I do not particularly enjoy being the target of such attacks. Having seen the way in which people respond to me, I have been forced to conclude that you may be correct."

And they aren't idiots. After the second or third occurrence of suspicious foilings of assassination attempts, they'd stop trying. Or at least start throwing less valuable members at them.

"It has been known to happen."

"I still want to encourage rapprochement between our species, but it has occurred to me that I did not ask a human what they thought the best approach would be. What do you advise?"

See, that's where you should have started. Cultural biases getting in the way, of course.

"The only people interested in listening to you right now are people who don't bear a grudge anyway. I haven't really thought about it in any detail, but… Off the top of my head, you could either go to a small colony and work as a literature teacher so the people there can get to know you as an individual, or get a job with a newspaper and write a… Travel log or something."

Becoming known as an author familiar to humans, not just 'that minbari poet.' Might be tricky, and it wouldn't be quick.

She nods, thinking it over for a moment.

"What is a 'newspaper'?"

I blink. "What?"

...Huh, a cultural thing that doesn't transfer over? How rare.

"It is the first thing I have heard you say that did not receive a translation."

"That-. Right, Rot Lop Fan. You don't have a concept of it, so there's nothing to translate it to."

That's this fascinating fellow, for reference.

"And now a second word. What is 'Rot Lop Fan'?"

"That's a rather deep rabbit-hole."

"And now I understand the words, but not the meaning."

Ah, so many new things to learn today. Mayan should be enjoying this experience, not getting annoyed.

"In English, the term 'rabbit hole' is used both for the entrance to a rabbit's burrow, and also for a subject which, while apparently simple on the surface, can be explored at length and constantly reveal new twists and turns… Like a rabbit's burrow."

She regards me with puzzlement for a moment. "Matthew, what do you think my job is?"

See? You should be happy to be learning about new cultural quirks.

I grin. "Aw, dang. Sick burn."

"It was not my intent to burn you."

And another one bounces of the cultural wall.

"I know. That makes it better." I fabricate a copy of Tales of the Green Lantern Corps Annual number 3… And translate it into the Religious Caste version of the minbari language… And the variant that Mayan write most of her poetry in. "But what has been learned cannot be unlearned."

Heh, introducing her to comic books, too? I mean, do we even know if Minbari have a similar concept of 'graphic novel'?

"A human student told me that humans unlearn things with alcohol."

"Heh, sort of. But serious, it may completely change the way you view the universe. I mean, the gods of comedy and madness are always looking for converts, but you seem happy as you are."

It would make for an interesting shift on her poetry.

"I doubt that a children's book would induce delirium."

"Alright." I pass it over. "This was written two hundred and seventy seven years ago, two years before I was born."

Ah, she can recognise the general concept of 'illustrated novella'.

"'Tales of the Green Lantern Corps'. And you are an Orange Lantern."

"Yes."

Dang space cops always getting the good publicity.

She studies the cover for a moment, and then turns to the first page. "Other colors of Lantern exist?"

"If they do, I haven't seen them."

And if anyone with the ability to discern it heard that, they'd hear the truth.

She turns another page, and reads it. "Rot Lop Fan's species have no eyes, and so he has no concept of light. And minbari have no concept what a newspaper is. From the etymology, I assume that it is a paper containing information on new things."

"Nearly. They're regularly published… Pamphlets? Which contain current affairs information and analysis. And sports."

And general stuff like comics, puzzles, and television listings. Admittedly, some of those have gotten less common over the years.

"And who has access to them?"

"Anyone with five credits?" She starts frowning. "What?"

The point being profit through economy of scale. Something that takes a pittance to prepare but sells in big enough numbers to make back its costs. Advertising space for sale helps.

"Everyone has access."

"Yes."

"I see. And there is more than one?"

I'm guessing informational material like that would be restricted by caste and possibly clan affiliations.

"Yes. Most cultivate an audience who sees the universe a particular way, and write to appeal to them. Thus ensuring that there's a diversity of opinion in the public space."

"I-." She frowns. "Why is that better than speaking directly to your intellectual elite? Surely, having the ideas I present evaluated by those experts and then disseminated more broadly would be more efficient? More respectful to your cultural institutions?"

The problem is that sometimes said newspapers, and other special interest magazines, can present the information via their own lens, through the subcultural biases of the people they try to appeal to.

"Mayan, no one-. Very few people, respect the literature department. And most of the other parts of our institutions aren't widely respected."

"Then why do they occupy these positions?"

Personal interest. Passable living wages. The hope of cultural fame via published works...

"Because the people who gave them those positions do respect them. They're just a small part of human civilisation as a whole. Look, I-. I get the impression that minbari society is highly regimented. Stratified. There's a clear sense of hierarchy and just about everyone sticks to it."

Significantly more so than any human political structure, evidently.

She waits a moment for me to make my point.

"Yes?"

I shake my head. "Human civilisation does not work like that."

Not without severe indoctrination and training, anyway. And many such attempts have failed because people still want the things everyone wants: recognition; advancement; comfort...

She frowns thoughtfully. "You told me that many of you hold your president in contempt. I did not appreciate that such an attitude extended more broadly."

"Yeah… For winning humans over, I really think that working from the bottom up, either by fully integrating yourself into a community or by embracing celebrity-."

And either method might be difficult amongst a majority-human culture, given the response of 'activists' like Homeguard.

Mayan gasps. She's… Staring at the comic.

"This is a work of fiction."

In this universe, at least.

"Yes."

"Is it based on encounters between your species and those amongst the First Ones who sponsor you?"

Ah, the be honest or not...

"Not to the best of my knowledge."

"The ring depicted here is the same as the one you wear."

For the most part, anyway.

I nod. "It's the same technology, yes. As far as I'm able to determine."

"But this is fiction."

Is it generally known that there were races with technology far beyond what the most powerful cultures have now? Because that's the easiest way to explain it.

"Do you know what the difference between fiction and reality is?"

She drags her eyes up to me. "Yes."

And yet Matthew's abilities seem like something impossible at times, do they not?

"The quote I am referring to is this: 'The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense.'" Her language only. "I wear on my hand a device that grants me the powers of its fictional alter-ego, so either a First One is a big fan of twentieth century comics, or we have complete confirmation that the universe we live in is real and not fictional."

...Because it doesn't make sense that his Ring could exist. Not as powerful a device as it is, nor as compact.

I lean a little closer, smiling.

"Because no one with a scrap of talent or skill would write something like this."

There's a subtle self-burn in there somewhere...

She doesn't manage to focus on me, and her breaths are sharp.

"I think… I think I need to meditate." She nods to herself. "At length."

"Entirely understandable. I'll keep the assassins off you while you're busy."

Because why would they stop after her little personal appearance is finished, after all?

Mayan's certainly got a lot to think about. Not least the idea that a First One not only knew about old human entertainment but would feel amused enough to create a functional version of a device from it. But the suggestions about how to appeal to humans might be more useful to contemplate, as foreign the idea of the masses having the most metaphorical power feels.

Darko · 2026-10-11T09:18:56+0100

Vaermina said:
actually is, because he has no way to know if a race of First Ones did what she suggested or not.

He knows that an advanced race that exists in a comic book also exists in some form in real life, so it's not that unbelievable.

Though this does make me wonder if the Vorlons are responsible for tentacle porn.

In the RPG book it is mentioned that a deviant sect of Vorlons use their powers to engage in physically pleasurable activities with less advanced races, so there's that.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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