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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare Versed in the lewd.

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    So he just had a literakl attack of guilty conscious?

    Also, I think you mitosis. Meiosis means producing egg/sperm cells.
     
  2. Flux Casey

    Flux Casey The Colonel

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    Oh please. It literally has 'worsest' in the name. It's so bad it had to include both the relative and superlative adjectives of 'bad'!
     
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  3. Gantradies

    Gantradies Not too sore, are you?

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    the issue is that team Pro-Reg went FUCKING PSYCHOTIC from almost the moment the Registration act was publicly announced/considered- there was an attempt to execute Rogers in cold blood by.. what was her name again, that psycho lady running shield at the time (Hill i think? Fury's Bargin-bin/crazy replacement?) for saying he wouldn't start illegally dragging his friends off to exodimensional gitmo BEFORE the act was passed-

    after an outright attempt to murder him for refusing to break the law/follow an order he considered immoral (and one that at the time, was literally illegal), is it any surprise at all he went into following events expecting another attempt on his life from his former "friends"?

    and the prison in question-
    a prison in a location that due to skewed/different underlying laws of reality outright causes permanent/long-term neurological damage from mere exposure-a prison which primarily housed people who's only "crime" was not trusting the US government with detailed information on their identities (in a setting with literal mindreading/shapeshifting doppelgangers/multiple psychopathic AI on the loose) when they had enemies capable of hacking/hiring a hacker to search the database,
    who could and WOULD murder them/their family with the slightest opportunity...

    add in the fact that almost none of the writers/editors were communicating/coordinating, and........
    im trying to remember the entire list- the original comic storyline wasn't just shit, it was COMICALLY badly written to the point the whole thing disintegrates into nonsense with even moderate scrutiny to the plot/events- i was legitimately impressed they got something remotely comprehensible from that starting point with the MCU...


    i cant remember where, but someone did a writeup on how....... bent, Anthony Stark's decision making was acting during the storyline a few years back-

    and came to the conclusion that he'd been exposed to a personality/morality-flip effect that turned him into an evil/amoral psychopath during a storyline shortly before Civil war- fairly common superhero fare, happens to almost everyone at least once- and after a careful analysis to the on-page events, concluded he was never ACTUALLY cured..
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  4. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Once read a fic on Ff.net called 'A View From The Armchair' in which Loki was apparently the one that caused the entire Civil War and manipulated basically everyone into doing that.

    The author of that fic also wrote another one, can't remember the name, where Magneto frees all the mutants imprisoned in the camps by the Act and gets a loyal army to follow him, after he kills Iron Man and the freed mutants kill Captain Marvel.
     
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  5. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    No, because I haven't thought about it. Feel free to come up with your own ideas.
    They are now one individual.
    Thank you, corrected.
    What, all hundred of them? Wasn't that after most mutants lost their powers due to Scarlet Witch?
     
  6. Ct613hulu

    Ct613hulu Experienced.

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    I believe that this is what you were referencing: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/3463052/1/The-Cavalry

    It describes a situation in which an unspecified event caused mutants to regain their powers and potential mutants to manifest powers during the Marvel Civil War.
     
  7. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Either Annie reunites with Tim and gets taken in by Bruce seems like a good bet, or maybe Roy and Jade decide to adopt her I guess.

    Either the author decided to have that incident not happen in his universe, or they somehow got their powers back.

    I think he was basically trying to show how something like the Act can be godsend to someone like Magneto, someone who has been trying for years to tell other mutants that humans will treat them like animals if they don't fight back.
     
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  8. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    That's the one, thanks.
     
  9. frommerman

    frommerman Getting out there.

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    Alternate interpretation: this wasn't murder or suicide because nobody actually died.

    When Clayface split off a copy of himself, what he seems to have really done is make a second instance of himself. That is, both of them were him and his 'self' comprised of multiple individuals. This isn't a problem we experience in our universe, (yet) but I'd argue that it is how reality literally works in this instance. We aren't bodies, because what constitutes part of our body is constantly changing and in order to have a consistent identity we'd have to make arbitrary rules about what counted as parts of us with no real basis in reality. We aren't brains because all of the above is true of our brains, and because the brain is just a structure that can (with sufficiently advanced technology) be copied perfectly. We're the pattern, which runs on our brains, which makes us, us. And if you copy a pattern, you haven't made a new pattern. You've just made another instance of the same thing.

    This is particularly true for Mr. Hagen. His body is entirely amorphous and can consist of any amount of anything he identifies as being sufficiently clay-like, so his identity cannot be tied to a body. He isn't a brain because he literally doesn't have one. He's just a self-aware pattern capable of propagating itself through certain kinds of matter. An instance of him still exists at the end of this chapter, his pattern is sustained. He therefore did not die and cannot be said to have murdered or committed suicide. He just merged two instances of himself and recreated a being he had temporarily, accidentally, destroyed.

    Now, since one instance of him did not want to merge, it could be argued the other committed assault, rape, or mind rape in increasing order of severity depending on what that process entails. But since the assault was committed on himself it was really just fantastic self-harm. As a result, the only thing a court should sentence him to now is therapy, to reduce the likelihood of something like this happening in the future.
     
  10. FeepingCreature

    FeepingCreature Not too sore, are you?

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    That argument fails because it presumes that you can be nonconsensually the same person as someone else. Since "same person" is an arbitrary boundary, sameness is only possible with mutual agreement.
     
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  11. Gantradies

    Gantradies Not too sore, are you?

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    my reading is Hagan2/saneHagan realized that his template was too deep in denial about having accidentally become a serial/child killer
    (given how quickly/easily he made "probes" im suspecting that he has made,and killed -quite- a few by this point) to be snapped back to reality/talked down without violence-
    and was likely to attempt to kill HIM at the first opportunity ("it isnt a person! just a broken robot that can help the authorities imprison me for crimes i haven't committed *absentmindedly launches a potentially-lethal blow at a minor/teenager*- im a asshole sure but id never kill someone so ive never killed someone so i have to reabsorb this thing before it gets me locked up for a bullshit murder!")r
    - he went to extreme lengths to reabsorb the poor "probe" in canon, to the point of actively seeking conflict with affiliates of the justice league/threatening/attempting lethal force against said third party...
    and given he was fully willing to keep creating and murdering said "probes" for the rest of his life (as abandoning the technique would mean considered that he'd been essentially killing children/his duplicates for years/decades which he was frantically denying both consciously and subconsciously...),and the hefty portion of irrational guilt/self-loathing the second Hagan was struggling with, well....
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  12. Senevri

    Senevri Not too sore, are you?

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    Ah. Fun.
    There was a time when I considered something like gross memory manipulation to be murder-lite. Then I considered how much I forget and invent constantly, and right now I don't consider identity to be a real thing, intellectually.
    That being said, I value several non-real and ephemeral things very highly.
     
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  13. BR549

    BR549 This is filth! FILTH!!

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    Or put simply:

    "Cool motive, still murder."
     
  14. WereDragon

    WereDragon Bookwyrm

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    They are going to need so much therapy. However many of them there ends up being.

    I will not accept that either Hagen is dead until they have thoroughly examined the body, the mud and the mind of the girl.
    And possibly until they have tracked down at least one soul and confirmed that it is in an afterlife.
     
  15. Ace Dreamer

    Ace Dreamer Questioning The Nature of our Realities

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    If I understand how this story works, correctly, take enough raw magic that flows out of the Dreaming and you can copy-paste souls... So, the soul is information, the pattern, which gets to interact with an afterlife because of the magical structure that it's imprinted on...
     
  16. Doccer

    Doccer I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Are Roy and Jade in a relationship here? Based on the way he talked about her in that first chapter so cordially I thought they'd be in a relationship and Roy would be a bit more on edge since Jade hasn't returned yet?
     
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  17. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Yeah they are and Jade is pregnant.

    This version of Jade wasn't taken, it was just Clayface pretending to be Peter.
     
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  18. Doccer

    Doccer I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Then what was acquired?
    I assumed it got Jade first then 'Peter' as he came out to open air?
     
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  19. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Hagen took on Peter's form and was mistaken for being him by Krona.

    Why Hagen did this is anyone's guess, maybe he didn't trust Peter all that much and somehow thought giant blue hand was a better option.

    Krona didn't get that Jade as when the rift opened he just took Hagen, maybe he didn't need anymore Jades by that point.

    Why Krona didn't know Peter wasn't Peter is beyond me.
     
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  20. SotF

    SotF And Away We Go!

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    The easy one with a rich Peter there that isn't a villain thing would be to have him fired to be a body double for something when it happens.
     
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  21. Doccer

    Doccer I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I knew that, that's why I put the name Peter in quotation marks. What I asked is if not Jade then who did it mean when it said acquisition successful? It couldn't mean Peter or 'Peter' as it said it was looking for Peter after acquisition successful! So who was the successful acquisition?
     
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  22. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Maybe Krona just said that before he grabbed someone that one time.

    The Jade of that universe was probably not taken as Roy didn't seem upset or anything that the mother of his child wasn't there.
     
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  23. Xelloss

    Xelloss Know what you're doing yet?

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    ~Clayface();
     
  24. Gantradies

    Gantradies Not too sore, are you?

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    i think it was an act of impulsive stupidity on his own end-
    the section from his POV had him internally screaming "why did i do that oh god im so screwed i should have taken the deal it'd have just been a little jailtime and he was talking about possibly giving me a job where i wouldn't be shot at afterwards oh god oh god im dead when this idiot realizes im not the real Peter!"
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
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  25. Impartial Panic

    Impartial Panic I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    so we got another paul with an adopted daughter now?

    Welcome back Annie
    [​IMG]
     
  26. Ardy

    Ardy I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I've just had a revelation...

    Does Paul wear his ring on his left finger because he's left handed???
     
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  27. Coda

    Coda Versed in the lewd.

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    Maybe it should be "Misters Hagen" ;)

    Too bad it's pronounced more like "wooster-sure".
     
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  28. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Unfortunetly Zoat said he's not going to adopt her.

    He has more that one ring that he wears on both hands I think.
     
  29. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    How many Mister Hagens?

    One Mister Hagen, Two Mister Hagen, ahahah.
     
  30. Threadmarks: Low Politics (part 11)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    7th April
    23:19 GMT +2


    Lex walks slowly back towards his jet, with Ms Graves and I on either side.

    "So, that just happened."

    "Yes." Mr Luthor nods. "Yes, it did."

    "First impressions?"

    "Between the waffle, pontificating and wandering tangents, I could barely decipher what it is that he's actually planning. I think it might be wise for me to speak with the ClusterCorp board of directors and offer them my services."

    "He's not as stupid as he sounds. It's not wise to project onto non-humanoid species."

    "Does he know enough about our culture to encourage us to underestimate him with such… Precision?"

    "I would be surprised, but I wouldn't rule it out."

    "How.. badly would your colleagues in the Justice League react if I did have commercial dealings with him?"

    "A mild increase in hostility towards ClusterCorp. They're already as hostile towards you as they can get without bringing it into the open."

    "Ah. I find it rather a shame that-."

    I don't even let him finish his platitude before rolling my eyes. "Please."

    "As you wish. Still, it would be beneficial to present a united front."

    "There are too many people on Earth to present a united front. And while I don't think that the League will oppose your lawful dealings out of spite, that's the exact limit of what they'll do to cooperate with you."

    "That might make a successful resolution of this crisis harder to achieve."

    "You should have thought of that before you signed up with Savage. Or said 'no' to me."

    "You tried to implicate me in some rather serious crimes."

    "I wasn't trying to implicate you. I was trying to exculpate you, to give you better options for achieving your legitimate goals. You and Truggs…" I shake my head. "I'd be a lot happier about this if I wasn't expected to somehow 'fix' it."

    Mr Luthor stops at the bottom of the stairs up into his jet.

    "You don't have to."

    "It's like watching a child play in the front garden. I don't feel obliged to put reins on them, but I really think I should keep an eye out in case they start running towards the road."

    "At.. which.. point, you… Guide them back inside the house?"

    "At which point I gently guide them away from the road and then go back on overwatch."

    "I.. fear we may be pushing the metaphor further than it can withstand. But I take your point. Out of curiosity, what would the rest of the ClusterCorp do if their ship was destroyed or seized?"

    "I'm not sure. They do have better armed ships. If it was seized then I imagine that they'd take it back. If it was destroyed… In the past they've seized property from the aggressor or sued them. Neither really apply here. I suppose they might try taking orbital infrastructure-"

    Like the Watchtower or the Xenon base. But I'm not sure who officially or unofficially knows about either of them and I'm confident that the League wouldn't be pleased if I confirmed the existence of anything in conversation with Mr Luthor.

    "-or retaliating, but they're a private enterprise and there's little profit in revenge." I smile. "If you take it where no one can see, and the reason that it's taken this long for this to happen is that no one's watching Earth. And of course that sort of thing would make it a League problem."

    "Mm. I wonder why they chose now?"

    "Ah. That was me. There's a political dispute in Atlantis and I decided to back the weaker party. I thought Dox would send me a regular LEGION fleet. Instead, we get this."

    "You were..? Planning on bringing a fleet into near-Earth space?"

    "Oh, come on, Mister Luthor. I brought a planet into near-Earth space. The fact that I'd bring a fleet here is hardly a strange idea, and no surface world country cares about Venturia."

    Hm. An.. idea is occurring.

    I haven't wanted to introduce advanced alien technology myself because I was concerned that it would have a stupefying influence on human civilisation. But if Earth is going to get access to alien technology anyway, then I'm perfectly capable of making anything ClusterCorp does unprofitable by undercutting them. 'Lord-Lantern Comic King' doesn't strike me as someone who would be prepared to work on matter transmutation 24-7.

    Or I could find a competitor or two and invite them here. Or a mercenary fleet with orders to enforce a particular set of customs arrangements. Amalak would be happy to take on that role, I'm sure, and we're too far away from his centre of power to have to worry about him annexing the planet. There isn't really any group in this Sector that I'd want to-.

    Thanagar. Is Thanagar going to be 'officially concerned' about this? If I decide to take any action I'll have to check with the Hawks.

    "Venturia?"

    "An Atlantean city-state. I'm afraid that the incident has already soured relations between myself and King Orin, so if you want more information I direct you in the direction of Ambassador Vallambrosa."

    "I quite understand. I can grasp the implication of you calling in a fleet."

    "Right. So -just so we don't step on each other's toes- what are you planning on doing about this?"

    "I'm.. still in the planning stages. As I said earlier, this has.. really been nothing like what I thought the Earth's first contact with an alien corporation would be like."

    "Okay, of course you're not obliged to tell me anything. But if you don't tell.. me..."

    Competent authority.

    "Paul?"

    "Sorry, I-. I can't tell Manga Khan-"

    "Lord-Lantern!"

    "-what to do while he's not on the clock, but I can still discipline him for breaking our code of conduct."

    "Which.. includes trading with worlds like Earth?"

    "No, that's fine. Like I said, he's not on the clock. But because the Orange Lantern Corps is trying to build a defensive alliance, there are rules about how Lanterns are obliged to relate to governments we might want to open direct negotiations with. They're.. pretty relaxed, and…"

    I look out across the night time desert.

    "I now realise exactly why he's here rather than a few miles north or south. I'm also revising upwards my estimate of his intelligence."

    Hm.

    "I'm going to do some reading. Get in touch when you've formulated a corporate strategy and I'll let you know what I've got."
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
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