With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Tzeentch · Sep 26, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
Ever since the local gods carried out their marginally clever plan to trap me here, they've also made an effort to keep me marginalised.

I'm guessing Hardy and Emroy have issues with the "God of Ambition"? I wonder what he did....

Pull off a nearly successful "Rage Against The Heavens" campaign that almost ended up with Hardy killed?

Queshire · Sep 26, 2020

Ngamer11 said:
This is a surprise. How in the world did this version of Paul end up in what is basically the sandbox of sociopathic gods?

He's in the world of Gate - Thus the JSDF Fought There (Gate - Jieitai Kare no Chi nite Kaku Tatakaeri).

Neat, I'm glad I could recognize it.

Honestly, considering that Gate is basically a Japanese version of a 'MURICA! FUCK YEAH! series with all the modern day forces roflstomping the fantasy forces I expect that Paul will have fun here.

GhostKing 666 · Sep 26, 2020

Fellow said:
I've no idea what is happening

It's a series called Gate-Thus the JSDF Fought There. Think of it like Japanese Stargate but with magic. And I'm really interested in how this goes, the gods of Falmart(the continent the empire is on) end up openly admitting that they treat their world like a garden, including "pruning" the mortal races so that they don't advance beyond the level the gods want them to be at. Including by violent means if necessary(which really pissed off the wizards, scholars and generally important people in the Empire when they learned this because it meant they'd always be at the mercy of more advanced cultures and races(including an insectoid race who are basically the bugs from Starship Troopers)). The gods of Falmart are in fact openly contemptuous of the gods of earth for letting humanity surpass the gods with technology, to them things like space flight and cloning are like mortals playing at god.

Occasionally the gods open up a "gate" to bring in new mortal races or for other reasons. In this situation is was because Hardy, the local underworld goddess, thought that the Empire was getting a bit too arrogant and needed to be humbled, and so opened the Gate to a more advanced world(Japan, Earth) in order to humble them, but she didn't realize just how advanced Earth actually was before doing so. Had she known ahead of time, she'd never had open the Gate since it threatens the stasis the gods enforce.

Handlewithcare · Sep 26, 2020

Ha, now I wnat a Paul in Black & White.

Thoguh that game doesn't really have enough story to write about.

Actually, a game were you're a god, sponsoring the heroes, would be cool.

Chojin Patriarch · Sep 26, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
Summer's End

Late Summer, IC 687

Someone's done something stupid.

While I don't recognise the setting, there's always one universal constant you can count on: Stupidity.

While I may be acknowledged as a deity in Saderan Empire, my shrine isn't exactly a bustling place of worship. Ever since the local gods carried out their marginally clever plan to trap me here, they've also made an effort to keep me marginalised. Not a huge effort; I think they got a little bored when I decided not to struggle against it. But the more popular cults hereabouts make a point of making sure that visits here are discouraged, and I'm perfectly happy for them to do that. Even with my physical form limited to my old power ring… Larfleeze's old power ring I should say, I'm perfectly capable of reaching out with its sensors so as to avoid being driven peculiar by boredom. And the followers I do have appear to appreciate my more accessible approach when compared to the locals.

So... This Paul became a god? I don't even... What? <One quick Google later: Gate: The JSDF Fought there> Well, that came out of nowhere.

What I don't get is high-ranking government officials visiting me. Oh, sometimes they send aides, sometimes their younger children come looking for a path to power when they know that their older siblings will inherit everything… But my cult is far too 'fringe' for the politically conscious to be directly associated with it.

So why the heck are the Praetorian Guard in my antechamber?

Clearly someone in power ~~needs~~ wants something he can't get from another deity. Or something he doesn't want to admit to seeking.

"…few rules that the God of Ambition enforces, oh Emperor. Everyone speaks to him alone."

"And who are you to tell me who I may take with me?"

"No one!"

I see deity!Paul's priests are humble fellows. No fear of runaway theology here.

Oh, you and I are going to have words about pointing spears at my priests, Emperor Molt. I'm rather fond of young Daniel.

"No one! But last time someone did that he broke their legs!"

Evidently deity!Paul didn't agree with their goals. I wonder how much power he can bring to bear in the world...

Which is still less than the local gods generally do; burning out a devotee to share a few words with the locals. The fact that I don't do that might be why he's coming to speak to me, almost certainly about that big blob of fear I can feel from Alnus Hill.

Molt stares Daniel down for a few moments before turning away and striding into my shrine, walking halfway across the small and plainly decorated room before stopping to stare up at… Me. The statue representing both my human form and the Ophidian, the two parts together holding the ring that is my connection to the material world.

Interesting. Presumably at some point, deity!Paul merged with this universe's Ophidian, and they were never separated?

So many years and I can still laugh about it. I'd known that gods generally couldn't manifest their full power in the material universe without a vast array of preparations but I didn't realise before came through their oversized dolmen gate that by local standards I had reached that standard. And I couldn't do what Zeus did and create an avatar for myself because it doesn't work like that here. I'm still not sure whether it was intentional or a pure fluke on their part.

"Oh Great God of Ambition, I, Molt Sol Augustus, ruler of our great Empire, seek your blessing as we wage the holy war decreed by the gods!"

...Wait, is this a future OL? I... I am totally lost!

And I am loving it!

This sort of thing is really meant to be like a confession. A private session where people confess their heart's desires and I give them a little advice and guidance. He's left the door open and is trying to turn it into a small piece of state theatre. Probably planning to seize my ring as proof of his authority… And probably murder a few priests on the way out.

If I had lungs, I'd sigh.

His lack of incorporeality is presumably part of the 'trap' he mentioned earlier, or a fundamental part of this reality... And fuck this emperor guy. He has no idea what he's just stepped in, has he?

Instead, I pull the doors closed behind him. His guards look a little concerned, but when Daniel doesn't react they appear to assume that it's just one of the mysteries of my cult. Molt himself tenses very slightly, but he doesn't look around even when the doors clonk shut.

"I don't remember decreeing a war. Are you sure that you've come to the right temple?"

Heh. I doubt he was much of a believer before this. Methinks that will change.

Hearing my voice affects him more than the doors, but he's still respectably self-possessed.

"The Great Gate opened upon the Holy Hill. Such a thing is a sign from the gods."

Which God? Because OL wouldn't be having any of that shit from jumped-up elementals.

"Not necessarily. Depending on the relationship between the worlds on either end, if could be the action of one powerful god. I certainly didn't have anything to do with it."

"Mf."

Ah, there it is. The moment of realisation that he may have done fucked up good.

Ah, that's news, I see. Did he think that the gods of this land had any sort of internal unity? Oh, goodness me.

"And when this gate opened, what did you do?"

"The Empire did our sacred duty; we dispatched an army to conquer the barbarian lands on the far side."

...Yesss...

That didn't turn out so well once the guys with guns turned up, huh? That's the Japanese Self Defense Force of the novels/anime, by the way.

I give him a few moments to continue.

…

Okay then.

Clearly Molt here expects Deity!Paul to be one of the omniscient ones...

"And why have you come here, to the temple of a god that you don't worship?"

"I am here to ask for your aid in our war with the barbarians, who even now threaten the holiest site in the Empire. The war is the pride of the Empire, a manifestation of our combined ambition to conquer all who stand before us!"

See, that kind of pride? That's the kind Orange Lanterns just love to knock over. Especially once they get all the information.

"That isn't how this works, Emperor Molt."

"If you wish to receive a sacrifice before you will offer your blessing-."

What, burning gold coins or a sheep? Ugh. Not like he can eat either. Didn't do the research, eh?

"How much effort did you put into finding out how my cult works?"

Another tiny flicker of emotion. He rushed this.

Oh, wow. He's that desperate for a way to resist the JSDF troops, huh?

"Let me explain it to you, then. I do not give things to people who ask for them. The Empire's ambition belongs to the Empire. Your ambitions are your own. The struggles, the costs and rewards are yours. By taking away from that I would undermine myself, and that I will not do. At most, I offer guidance on how they can most effectively be realised."

"Then what should I do? What guidance can you give me that will allow me to crush the barbarians?"

How about throwing yourself on their mercy, apologising profusely and paying any and all reparations they ask for? Because boy, you are screwed.

Frankly, not a lot. Through the veil's dimness, I can see the fear, flames and conflagration, but the image isn't clear enough for me to see what the exact cause is.

"Tell me, did your army scout the barbarian lands before marching through? Did you send men disguised as merchants to learn their languages and customs, to study their warcraft and weapons? Did you send light cavalry, to reconnoitre their defensive positions and raid their supply lines?"

Wow, that would have failed so hard. They would have been picked up instantly, because the Gate they mentioned? Opens up in the middle of Tokyo's Ginza district. The American equivalent would be, say, Times Square. People in medieval garb might have stuck out a bit, especially foreign garb...

His face hardens.

"We did not."

Well, there's your problem right there.

"And you lost, didn't you? Whoever these barbarians are, they were strong enough to throw you back. I can see them, their position on this side of the gate. And if they could throw the legions back when caught unawares, they will do better when they are prepared."

He reluctantly nods.

And when Deity!Paul gets a good look at them, he'll go "Oh, humans from Earth. Finally, I might be able to get out of here!"

"What is your ambition, Emperor Molt?"

"To see the Empire expand; to make its armies strong, it's people wealthier-."

Oh, you're an entire empire, are you?

Must be amazing. What's it like?

"Try again. Honestly, this time."

"I do want those things. But I want to become powerful enough to rule without those fools in the senate; to concentrate power and authority in the person of the Emperor. I believed this war would give me the opportunity to do that."

Theeeeere we go. He wants to be remembered as a mighty emperor, then. One who took no shit from a stupid senate.

It still could, of course. A partial loss can be used by a sufficiently cunning politician to do all manner of things victory couldn't justify. And Emperor Molt is a reasonably cunning leader. With me advising him…

But he did threaten Daniel.

Yeah, look deeper, and you'll see he's not someone worth backing.

"If you want me to salvage the situation, I will need something from you."

"Name it, oh God of Ambition."

You fool, never give an Orange Lantern a blank check!

"Your son."

"Prince Zorzal El Caesar is-."

Ah, trying to push the monster (Seriously, this guy is listed as the main badguy in the wiki article I linked.) Setting the tone of their relationship early, aren't we? He would totally be the worst possible choice to wield the Orange Light.

"No, not him."

He didn't even hesitate. Sad.

Seriously, this guy. A dick of truly cetacean proportions.

"The one who isn't a nitwit. If I'm going to take to the field I want a bearer who can keep up his end of an intelligent conversation. Grant Prince Diabo command of the Imperial forces in the area and then send him here. I will negotiate with the barbarians on your behalf. And then you and I will talk about the future of the Empire."

Oh, I foresee that going so well... Hilarity will ensue! Well, some might not find it funny, but they don't count.

Well, this was an interesting alternate. Whether true alternate Paul or merely an alternate OL, I don't know. Either way, I foresee things going a lot smoother for all involved. Except maybe the Gods of this world... I foresee them having an even worse time than in Canon, especially if Deity!Paul can take action against them...

Tzeentch · Sep 26, 2020

GhostKing 666 said:
It's a series called Gate-Thus the JSDF Fought There. Think of it like Japanese Stargate but with magic. And I'm really interested in how this goes, the gods of Falmart(the continent the empire is on) end up openly admitting that they treat their world like a garden, including "pruning" the mortal races so that they don't advance beyond the level the gods want them to be at. Including by violent means if necessary(which really pissed off the wizards, scholars and generally important people in the Empire when they learned this because it meant they'd always be at the mercy of more advanced cultures and races(including an insectoid race who are basically the bugs from Starship Troopers)). The gods of Falmart are in fact openly contemptuous of the gods of earth for letting humanity surpass the gods with technology, to them things like space flight and cloning are like mortals playing at god.

Makes even more sense why the cult of the God of Ambition would be so marginalized by the other deities of Falmart, seeing as the advancement of mortals is something Paul supports.

King of Frost · Sep 26, 2020

Chojin Patriarch said:
Well, this was an interesting alternate. Whether true alternate Paul or merely an alternate OL, I don't know.

This appears to be the main OL actually. When the whole Ambush Bug thing happened, OL not only saw alternate versions of himself, but his own personal future.

It's why we know Paragon will eventually travel to Wilson and recruit Nightmare Moon into the orange lantern corp. It's why we know the main version of OL that we're following will meet Prince Zuko from Avatar and help Azula's mental state recover, and how we know he will mentor Tai Lung from Kung Fu Panda and help him see the error of his ways.

This appears to be the main Paragon OL just in the far future when he starts exploring non-DC universes.

doug89 · Sep 26, 2020

GhostKing 666 said:
Occasionally the gods open up a "gate" to bring in new mortal races or for other reasons. In this situation is was because Hardy, the local underworld goddess, thought that the Empire was getting a bit too arrogant and needed to be humbled, and so opened the Gate to a more advanced world(Japan, Earth) in order to humble them, but she didn't realize just how advanced Earth actually was before doing so. Had she known ahead of time, she'd never had open the Gate since it threatens the stasis the gods enforce.

I can't remember where I picked this up, but I remember something about Gates normally being temporary and short lived. When establishing a foot hold in the fantasy world the JSDF accidentally set up their defenses in a geometric shape which coincidentally acted as an enormous magical formation that kept the Gate open indefinitely.

Darko · Sep 26, 2020

King of Frost said:
This appears to be the main OL actually. When the whole Ambush Bug thing happened, OL not only saw alternate versions of himself, but his own personal future.

It's why we know Paragon will eventually travel to Wilson and recruit Nightmare Moon into the orange lantern corp. It's why we know the main version of OL that we're following will meet Prince Zuko from Avatar and help Azula's mental state recover, and how we know he will mentor Tai Lung from Kung Fu Panda and help him see the error of his ways.

This appears to be the main Paragon OL just in the far future when he starts exploring non-DC universes.

Those alternates may not have all been future versions of paragon, but rather other versions that also achieved enlightenment.

In the Equestria chapter Luna stated that she and Celestia were 8.000 years old, but the Luna in the renegade chapters said that Celestia was around a thousand years old.

Karna, а, planet in Vega, also existed in that version of Equestria, but I think Zoat said that that version of Wilson is in the DC universe, while the one we saw in the previous chapters wasn't.

This could also be another version that became enlightened, or it may be future paragon.

We've seen other orange Lanterns and it wouldn't be unusual if some of them achieved enlightenment after some time.

Silverias · Sep 26, 2020

God, I tried to like gate. I really did. It takes itself too seriously for what it is and then fails to live up to the promise it makes. The concept works really well. Friction and interactions between a fantasy world linked to the modern world, with all the political strain that comes with one country having exclusive access to a resource-rich diplomatic goldmine. It was so blunt and so unpleasant that it felt like I was sitting on a square bedpost.

This is very interesting writing from Zoat though, we'll see where it goes.

B00ki5h · Sep 26, 2020

Should've asked for the bunny queen while he was at it.

Agent Orange · Sep 26, 2020

Ngamer11 said:
This is a surprise. How in the world did this version of Paul end up in what is basically the sandbox of sociopathic gods?

Darko said:
So did this Paul end up in a DC universe and then somehow ended up in this universe, because he mentioned Zeus and Larfleezes ring?

I think this Paul is one of those Future Agent Oranges (like the one we saw in Paragon MLP episode - the one with him recruiting Nightmare Moon). After he became a quasi-New God/Controller equivalent.

Or maybe the "sage" Agent Orange that played Azula's therapist.

It doesn't really matter because Gate "gods" are very much 'Jumped Up Elementals'. The apotheosis bar is very very low.

Future Paul was probably on one of his Multiversal trips, spreading the word of Our Scaly Lady Ophidi-chan when the locals decided that he's trying to muscle in on their gig and that he could use some time on the bench.

GhostKing 666 said:
but she didn't realize just how advanced Earth actually was before doing so.

Ah yes. The mighty, nigh-godlike, early 2000s Earth. Possessed of technology so powerful it completely trumps the Walmartian gods, their champions, and the archwizards alike!

Old Knife · Sep 26, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
Summer's End

Late Summer, IC 687

Someone's done something stupid.
"

I honestly want to read about this more than I do about Paul/Grayven.

Guess I'm a sucker for reasonable! Fixfics.

Mr Zoat · Sep 26, 2020

Fellow said:
'before I'

Darko said:
'in the'
'it could be'

Thank you, corrected.

So did this Paul end up in a DC universe and then somehow ended up in this universe, because he mentioned Zeus and Larfleezes ring?

Is this an original version of Paul, or one of the previous ones we saw, but after he ended up in a new universe?

This is the far future version from the second half of Fool's Canon.

Darko · Sep 26, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
Thank you, corrected.

This is the far future version from the second half of Fool's Canon.

So is this a future paragon, because some of those could have been just alternates that also achieved enlightenment?

Mr Zoat · Sep 26, 2020

Silverias said:
God, I tried to like gate. I really did. It takes itself too seriously for what it is and then fails to live up to the promise it makes. The concept works really well. Friction and interactions between a fantasy world linked to the modern world, with all the political strain that comes with one country having exclusive access to a resource-rich diplomatic goldmine. It was so blunt and so unpleasant that it felt like I was sitting on a square bedpost.

This is very interesting writing from Zoat though, we'll see where it goes.

Oh, yes, Gate is a bad series. No argument. In theory an a-symmetric conflict between modern weapons and magic users could be interesting. What we got was an effortless stomp by a modern army against Roman legions with some heavy cavalry. No magic, no monsters worth anything and no demigods. And it didn't even handle the Japanese politics end of things very well!

Darko said:
So is this a future paragon, because some of those could have been just alternates that also achieved enlightenment?

Yes.

Agent Orange · Sep 26, 2020

The most SoD breaking part of the series is that US, China, Russia and the other big boys would just let Japan control access to an entire new planet in exchange for... mining rights? Really? You find out there's an entire world with actual gods and magic (as unimpressive as it is) and your ambition ends with 'let's mine it for oil'. Right.

Figuring out the Gate spell alone is worth almost any concession. It opens access to arbitrary number of worlds.

Mr Zoat · Sep 26, 2020

Agent Orange said:
The most SoD breaking part of the series is that US, China, Russia and the other big boys would just let Japan control access to an entire new planet in exchange for... mining rights? Really?

Wouldn't they? There's only one gate, and it's in the middle of Japan. If Japan didn't want to share, would any of them invade to conquer Japan?

China might if Japan alienated the US enough that they broke their alliance, but I can't see either Russia or the US doing it.

You find out there's an entire world with actual gods and magic (as unimpressive as it is) and your ambition ends with 'let's mine it for oil'. Right.

That's a pretty big deal for Japan. Especially since (I assume) they're getting embargoed by all of the nations they're pissing off with their actions regarding the gate.

Figuring out the Gate spell alone is worth almost any concession. It opens access to arbitrary number of worlds.

It's also the only war justification that makes any sense.

BR549 · Sep 26, 2020

Queshire said:
Neat, I'm glad I could recognize it.

Honestly, considering that Gate is basically a Japanese version of a 'MURICA! FUCK YEAH! series with all the modern day forces roflstomping the fantasy forces I expect that Paul will have fun here.

It's also Japanese Self-Defense Force-wank to a ridiculous degree in the modern world (IIRC there's a bit where JSDF basic infantry roflstomp U.S. Navy SEALs) and the author is one of the the "WW2 Japan Did Nothing Wrong Before Those Evil Warmongering Americans Attacked Our Peaceful Shores" type of people.

Silverias said:
God, I tried to like gate. I really did. It takes itself too seriously for what it is and then fails to live up to the promise it makes. The concept works really well. Friction and interactions between a fantasy world linked to the modern world, with all the political strain that comes with one country having exclusive access to a resource-rich diplomatic goldmine. It was so blunt and so unpleasant that it felt like I was sitting on a square bedpost.

This is very interesting writing from Zoat though, we'll see where it goes.

Mr Zoat said:
And it didn't even handle the Japanese politics end of things very well!

The above is probably why. For those reasons and others (such as, say, the "multi-thousand-year-old eldritch being looks like a 12 year old") I've avoided it like the plague, but I trust Zoat can make it interesting in this context.

Even if that means the Great Orange Roflstomp.

Especially if that means the Great Orange Roflstomp.

(That said, if you want a series that takes the basic premise of Gate - "gate between Today and Fantasy World opens, culture clash ensues" - and actually is GOOD, take a look at CopCraft. It's great stuff.)

Ct613hulu · Sep 26, 2020

Agent Orange said:
The most SoD breaking part of the series is that US, China, Russia and the other big boys would just let Japan control access to an entire new planet in exchange for... mining rights? Really? You find out there's an entire world with actual gods and magic (as unimpressive as it is) and your ambition ends with 'let's mine it for oil'. Right.

Figuring out the Gate spell alone is worth almost any concession. It opens access to arbitrary number of worlds.

I would say that the understandable lack of any plan for dealing with the appearance of a magic gateway to another world would slow down the response from the major powers long enough for Japan to take the lead. It makes a lot of sense for the political and military leadership to just pursue any plan that seems to make immediate sense with no real grand strategy or long-term planning given how completely unexpected the whole appearance of the Gate is. This could easily explain a lot of shortsighted or badly-planned actions from otherwise intelligent and canny leaders.

Once the situation stabilized the Japanese government could simply take advantage of the fact that no one actually wants to start a new World War to trade a few minor and largely symbolic concessions in return for permission from the international community to do as they will in the new world.

Think about how difficult it would be for Russia and China to gain access to the Gate if Japan is totally uncooperative. The fact that the Gate is located in the heart of Tokyo means that there is no way for foreign governments to justify claiming the land needed to control access to the Gate and ensures that any attempt to use force would be the same as trying to conquer Japan. The only options that wouldn't risk starting a massive war would involve the use of economic and diplomatic tools to pressure the government of Japan to make concessions or the use of more deniable means with special forces and spies to achieve limited objectives.

Agent Orange · Sep 26, 2020

BR549 said:
Especially if that means the Great Orange Roflstomp.

I'm not sure he can do 'the Great Orange Roflstomp' even with the host wielding his ring [is Paul Sauron in this case?] due to the local anti-'divine meddling' measures in place. Now if ringbearing ~~Dio~~ Diabo took a stroll to the other side of the Gate... well, that's a different story and probably won't happen.

Nashk · Sep 26, 2020

One of the most frustrating things about zoat is reading snippets of all these fascinating fics and knowing you eont be able to get more for a long time.

I find this foray into Gate enthralling and I wish we could get a full fic from it.

But that's the nature of the beast, good chapter.

dxdragon · Sep 26, 2020

Oh wow, now this is interesting!

An Orange Paul who ascended to Godhood in GATE?

Surprised he is just the God of Ambition. Expand your portfolio!

I'd love to see GATE's reaction to Paul descending down to completely change how they view this world.

Darko · Sep 26, 2020

dxdragon said:
Oh wow, now this is interesting!

An Orange Paul who ascended to Godhood in GATE?

Surprised he is just the God of Ambition. Expand your portfolio!

I'd love to see GATE's reaction to Paul descending down to completely change how they view this world.

Technically this is just a future version of Paragon from the DC universe who apparently came to the GATE universe and lost his body and was bound to his ring.

OrigamiPhoenix · Sep 26, 2020

Silverias said:
God, I tried to like gate. I really did. It takes itself too seriously for what it is and then fails to live up to the promise it makes. The concept works really well. Friction and interactions between a fantasy world linked to the modern world, with all the political strain that comes with one country having exclusive access to a resource-rich diplomatic goldmine. It was so blunt and so unpleasant that it felt like I was sitting on a square bedpost.

Mr Zoat said:
Oh, yes, Gate is a bad series. No argument. In theory an a-symmetric conflict between modern weapons and magic users could be interesting. What we got was an effortless stomp by a modern army against Roman legions with some heavy cavalry. No magic, no monsters worth anything and no demigods. And it didn't even handle the Japanese politics end of things very well!

Agent Orange said:
The most SoD breaking part of the series is that US, China, Russia and the other big boys would just let Japan control access to an entire new planet in exchange for... mining rights? Really? You find out there's an entire world with actual gods and magic (as unimpressive as it is) and your ambition ends with 'let's mine it for oil'. Right.

Mr Zoat said:
Wouldn't they? There's only one gate, and it's in the middle of Japan. If Japan didn't want to share, would any of them invade to conquer Japan?
China might if Japan alienated the US enough that they broke their alliance, but I can't see either Russia or the US doing it.

I thought it was fairly realistic in an enjoyable fashion; the story takes the "medieval" part of "medieval fantasy" seriously, and it reflects in not just the battles but also the dynamics of the other-world and how Japan's interference dramatically impacts them. The protagonist Itami and most of the characters in general are sort of bland, the harem elements feel forced, and it's just a little too grim at times, but I don't think it's by any means a terrible work.
Maybe it's because it's one of the few works that tries to deconstruct the isekai genre. Could also be that I just hate how plenty of other isekai that even mentions something heavy like slavery treats said subjects with none of the respect they deserve.

Oh, and just to be clear, I'm talking about the manga, not the dumpster-fire anime.

Ct613hulu said:
Think about how difficult it would be for Russia and China to gain access to the Gate if Japan is totally uncooperative. The fact that the Gate is located in the heart of Tokyo means that there is no way for foreign governments to justify claiming the land needed to control access to the Gate and ensures that any attempt to use force would be the same as trying to conquer Japan. The only options that wouldn't risk starting a massive war would involve the use economic and diplomatic tools to pressure the government of Japan to make concessions or the use of more deniable means with special forces and spies to achieve limited objectives.

Well, that is basically what happens. The various global powers try all forms of soft power as well as blackmail and even once tried black ops to capture guests from the other-world... only to run into each other and Rory the Reaper, an immortal demi-god apostle of Emroy, the god of death, darkness, violence, and war.

BR549 said:
if you want a series that takes the basic premise of Gate - "gate between Today and Fantasy World opens, culture clash ensues" - and actually is GOOD, take a look at CopCraft. It's great stuff.)

I really enjoyed the premise, unfortunately the anime was disappointing. Buddy cop plots aren't really my thing (even if the characters themselves were great) and it was really light on the fantasy-side worldbuilding. Would you know if the LN/manga would be more satisfying?

Mr Zoat · Sep 26, 2020

OrigamiPhoenix said:
I thought it was fairly realistic in an enjoyable fashion; the story takes the "medieval" part of "medieval fantasy" seriously, and it reflects in not just the battles but also the dynamics of the other-world and how Japan's interference dramatically impacts them. The protagonist Itami and most of the characters in general are sort of bland, the harem elements feel forced, and it's just a little too grim at times, but I don't think it's by any means a terrible work.
Maybe it's because it's one of the few works that tries to deconstruct the isekai genre. Could also be that I just hate how plenty of other isekai that even mentions something heavy like slavery treats said subjects with none of the respect they deserve.

Example of why it's terrible.

Lelei gets possessed so one of the gods can talk to the characters.

We are told this is 100% fatal with no chance of surviving.

Lelei survives.

No reason is given and no special effort is made by the characters to make this happen. She just does.

Oh, and just to be clear, I'm talking about the manga, not the dumpster-fire anime.

Well, that is basically what happens. The various global powers try all forms of soft power as well as blackmail and even once tried black ops to capture guests from the other-world... only to run into each other and Rory the Reaper, an immortal demi-god apostle of Emroy, the god of death, darkness, violence, and war.

That bit was terrible in both the manga and the anime.

Three major powers getting soldiers into Japan is perfectly possible. America has more soldiers than that just in its embassy. I could accept that dug-in Japanese special forces would have a very good kill-death ratio against small squads of attackers. Nor so sure about those attackers pressing the attack and clearly having no real idea what they were doing, but okay.

But what the heck were they doing there? I mean, if Rory hadn't been around and they reached their objective what exactly would have happened? They'd have captured a couple of Saderans. And... Profit? The people they would have captured would have no special bypass to get back home. The people holding them would have no access to the gate. They'd just be left holding proof that they committed an act of war.

And that's not even getting into 'only America has mixed-race special forces'.

Agent Orange · Sep 26, 2020

Hey, Mr Zoat, what happens if Paul's ring is taken to the other side of the Gate (to Ginza or wherever)? Could he just reform his body?

Mr Zoat · Sep 26, 2020

Agent Orange said:
Hey, Mr Zoat, what happens if Paul's ring is taken to the other side of the Gate (to Ginza or wherever)? Could he just reform his body?

He doesn't know.

Outside of his perspective, Rory kept her powers on the far side of the gate, so it probably operates under the same rules.

Ardy · Sep 26, 2020

Now I'm imagining Paul in the Salvation War being annoyed at both how horrible Hell is and how unbearably smug all the humans are

Dur'id the Druid · Sep 26, 2020

Mr Zoat said:
Oh, yes, Gate is a bad series. No argument. In theory an a-symmetric conflict between modern weapons and magic users could be interesting.

I fully agree. I'm just going to throw in a couple of book recommendations here that actually did that really well.

Hells Gate by David Weber and Linda Evans.
Island in the Sea of Time by S M Sterling.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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