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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Mr Zoat said:
"No-." I frown. "No, you've got me confused for the other Grayven. The clone I got merged with. He's the one who recruited the Citizenry, I'm the one who rallied Vega to stop them."

"No. You're not."

…
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While he can probably be trusted to be honest, I very much question his expertise and perspective. Just because he is sure doesn't mean he is correct.

Last words, Spectre?"

"Your evil will not stand."
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Neat perhaps but kinda boring. That is the sort of line Freezer would be counting in the high triple digits.

I step forwards and stab his host in the heart with the Sword of the Fallen.
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Safer in the short term, but almost guaranteed to cause trouble later down the line.
 
Ngamer11 said:
I hope Paul never meets the Spectre and the latter stays trapped forever in the Paragon timeline.
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Most likely to happen from here is that the specter is going to try being the punisher without the skills or power. Then he'll be going to hell like anyone else that acts like that.
 
ShadowScion626 said:
Oh, that's a good one. But yeah, situations like that always felt like plot-induced stupidity to me, because the Spectre should absolutely be smart and wise enough to know that they can't possibly fight Gods equal-opposite counterpart and win, yet the plot needed for the Spectre to stand aside and the Absence out, so ergo plot induced arrogance.
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Equal-opposite counterpart, eh?

I guess you could say that if God/The Great Light/The Presence is the Source, then Anti-God/The Great Darkness/The Absence is simply, The Destination. The former is called The Source, because it is the beginning of all things where everything is made, and in turn, that would make The Great Darkness The Destination, because it is where all things go to end. I guess that would make the Great Darkness the DC counterpart to Marvel's The One Below All. I guess it's a greater theme in DC's cosmology: complimentary opposites. Action and reaction. Creation and destruction. White light of life and black light of death. Infinity and Finality. Life and Anti-Life.

And of course, since the DC universe is one giant story, one could argue that they also represent the two most essential, rudimentary parts of any story: The Beginning and The End.
 
MajorPane said:
Incarnating the Wrath of God as a human feels like you've accidentally anti-christed. There's no way this doesnt end, heh, apocalyptically.
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Would it be as a human, or is it gonna be on this planet as a native... which isn't possible. Could be as a member of the species of the current host?

Bigreader said:
Is the specter a trustworthy source of information about whether this version is graven or graven Paul? Because original Paul didn't have a soul by this universe's standards. So for all intents and purposes, he could be that tall just more, we've graven, added in.
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WereDragon said:
While he can probably be trusted to be honest, I very much question his expertise and perspective. Just because he is sure doesn't mean he is correct.
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Junzahkrii said:
So renegade paul is dead huh.
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Darko said:
I think therefore I am.

As far as Renegade is concerned he's the real deal.
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Jankl said:
I think both Renegade-Grayven and Grayven-16 are sort of Dead. The current grayven is both and neither since they merged together.
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OG Renegade had no soul and wasn't in the book of Destiny. It's questionable if Spectre would have been able to read him at all at that point. Then a Father Box made a soul for him thinking he was original Grayven so it essentially gave him Grayven's soul. Could Spectre have known the difference at that point? Probably. Then they merged and Renegade took over the OG Grayven body. So from Spectre's perspective, Grayven's soul is piloting Grayven's body. He's likely seen as guilty of the sins of both,
 
I guess the Spectre was never going to stick around given Zoat's dislike for the character, but that felt a little prefunctory.

I don't know, it's always a little rough to see characters Zoat dislikes done dirty. Yeah, there's the side of the character who pointlessly rants at characters who are doing good and seems utterly unreasonable. That's there, it's been used, it's a fair interpretation. But there have been plenty of Spectre comic book appearances where he's not like that and has been used in a more interesting way. Or just when it feels satisfying to see him deliver ironic punishments to bastards who really, really did have it coming.
 
Steelplaza said:
I guess the Spectre was never going to stick around given Zoat's dislike for the character, but that felt a little prefunctory.

I don't know, it's always a little rough to see characters Zoat dislikes done dirty. Yeah, there's the side of the character who pointlessly rants at characters who are doing good and seems utterly unreasonable. That's there, it's been used, it's a fair interpretation. But there have been plenty of Spectre comic book appearances where he's not like that and has been used in a more interesting way. Or just when it feels satisfying to see him deliver ironic punishments to bastards who really, really did have it coming.
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There have, but the first one I read where he wasn't like that was the one I read for Zor's origin story a month or so ago. The run that was most memorable to me was the time he was merged with Crispus Allen. Oh, and the time he worked with Eclipso and set out to murder every magic user on the planet. I've never seen him actually be good.

I guess I'm like the guy who doesn't understand why the Spider-Man in the films is taking pictures for a newspaper when they've only seen him as a school teacher in the comics.
 
Mr Zoat said:
here have, but the first one I read where he wasn't like that was the one I read for Zor's origin story a month or so ago. The run that was most memorable to me was the time he was merged with Crispus Allen. Oh, and the time he worked with Eclipso and set out to murder every magic user on the planet. I've never seen him actually be good.

I guess I'm like the guy who doesn't understand why the Spider-Man in the films is taking pictures for a newspaper when they've only seen him as a school teacher in the comics.
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Is this confirmation that the Spectre will never appear in the Paragon timeline as you don't like the character and have already written what you want done to him here in the Renegade timeline?
 
I've read one Spectre comic and it's from the early JSA days, where he was more or less Dr. Strange in a green hood. It makes it pretty strange to see how extreme modern Spectre's gotten.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"No-." I frown. "No, you've got me confused for the other Grayven. The clone I got merged with. He's the one who recruited the Citizenry, I'm the one who rallied Vega to stop them."

"No. You're not."

…
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Yes... Which is what I've been saying...


Mr Zoat said:
"Okay, fine. Other option is that I kill you with this." I draw the Sword of the Fallen with my left hand. "This has the interesting effect of causing you to incarnate as a mortal. No magic power, but you can work on your morals and maybe earn your way back into the Silver City. Which I… Vaguely recall is the whole point of this exercise."
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Why is he assuming that will actually work on him instead of just breaking whatever binds him to the host?
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Kon, that's not safe. If they breach it-."

"Then they'll have got through my kinetic shield and I'll still have my environmental shield."
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"get through"

So it was an angel. If reincarnating him is actually DC-God's plan, acting through Grayven, then that's wild. I mean, Grayven didn't get a trip to heaven after going to hell.
 
PDV said:
I've read one Spectre comic and it's from the early JSA days, where he was more or less Dr. Strange in a green hood. It makes it pretty strange to see how extreme modern Spectre's gotten.
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The Spectre has a a built in excuse for changing his personality- His host.

Hal, while the Spectre, basically said "Vengeance? Screw that, we're now the spirit of redemption."
 
Vaermina said:
The Specter is far far above the First of the Fallen.
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Quite the opposite, actually. The First is not only older than Aztar, but he was also God's first created angel and right-hand man before he got cast out. And much like how Aztar is God's vengeance and Eclipso was God's wrath, The First of the Fallen was God's conscience. And even after his fall, he hasn't lost his power.
 
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Terror Nova (supplementary, SI option) New
10th December 2022
15:05 GMT

The four of us look up at the giant demonic tower.

Corporal Taggart snorts. "Think they've got elevators?"

Mazikeen narrows her eyes. "I can't perceive the flows of magic energy, but that looks like something that could act as an anchor."

Endymion shrugs. "It is a home of demons, and the only place remaining on this moon that we have not purged. Regardless of its purpose, it is our next destination."

I take a moment to consider the patched repairs I've been able to make to my armour. Armour repair kits, salvaged plates from local suits of marine combat armour and a brief manual repair in one of the research centre's workshops have left me with something that would embarrass a pirate gang, to say nothing of a professional military. I'm just glad I could remember the schematics.

"I would not be comfortable carrying people up with my armour in this state. Anyone bring crampons?"

Taggart winces. "There should be some in the equipment locker."

"Where's that?"

"About…" He half-turns. "Thirty miles thataway."

Mazikeen starts towards the tower. "The demons have shown no sign of being able to climb. If there's nothing at ground level, then whatever this place is for must be at the top, and there must be a way for them to reach the summit."

"Everyone, let's go and find the teleporters."

Taggart said that this place was doing teleportation research, but it was disturbing to see that literally all of the teleportation pads in the place were of the demonic variety. I don't know if the demons replaced them or redecorated the place, or if they were already like that because the people running the place were demonic cultists from the start. And the rest of the facility went along with it for some reason. At least there doesn't seem to be a negative effect to using them now.

Wurble wurble schlurp.

The tower isn't solid at ground level. There's clearly an entrance, with more leering faced embossed on the stone blocks-.

Mazikeen has stopped.

"What's the issue?"

She nods forwards, and-. Ohhh.

Taggart follows our gaze. "Well, fuck me."

The chamber at the bottom does indeed have teleporters recessed into the sides of the interior wall. In design, they match the ones we've seen in dozens of places across the facility. It also has a hooping great oversized teleporter in the middle of the tower's ground floor. I'd say about 5 times as long and wide as the ones we've been using, giving it 25 times the area.

"So let's not take that one."

"Yes." / "Uh-huh." / "As you say."

"Mazikeen, did any side of the tower look more important than the others?"

"No."

"Right, I'm going first. I pick…" I point at one at random. "That one. Wait ten seconds and then follow me through."

The teleportation is almost instant, but you can't teleport multiple people at once and there's a slight delay if you want to come back. Ten seconds is enough time for me to scope out my surroundings and then come back if there are too many enemies to deal with. Plus a margin for error, because it turns out that teleporting onto a pad that someone is standing on makes the person on the pad explode.

Double check that my shotgun is loaded, and-

Fziz-fziz!

-I'm.. through, into a small room, with… Dead Barons of Hell suspended from four of the walls, green blood still fresh and dripping onto the floor.

I wish Sandro was here. They must have seen something.

Quick assessment as I step off the pad. Check up? Solid stone. Check around? Solid stone. Demons? Living demons, zero. Exits? The three-. The four walls with the Barons chained to them are concealed doors, designed to move… Upwards, when the correct block is pressed. How..? Haven't really worked that out yet. Most places still have actual human-build doors, or hidden doorways that slide sideways in nice Euclid-compliant ways. But at least this room is safe.

I take position forwards and left of the teleporter and wait the ten seconds.

Mazikeen is through next, and after confirming my good health and the absence of enemies she walks over to one of the dead Barons to study the corpse. Endymion is through next, with Taggart bringing up the rear-.

The teleport pad dims slightly as it shuts down.

I see Taggart smile through his visor. "Trapped again." He nods at Mazikeen. "He tellin' you anything?"

"They were chained up by the horns, right arms, left hands and the lower part of their left legs… Removed. The throats aren't cut; that blood came from their mouths after their abdomens were pierced. The regularity of the damage pattern is consistent across all four, indicating that it was deliberate, but… I can't tell what did it. We've seen that the Barons are immune to one another's plasma, so it can't have been that. Each time an imp hit one, they immediately fought back and killed them."

Taggart nods. "Bitten off by pinkies?"

"They couldn't inflict the abdominal wound. And regardless of bite strength, they would struggle to bite off an entire leg. Their jaws aren't the right shape, and their throat isn't wide enough."

Endymion walks over to one of the activation buttons. "Does it matter? We must kill it in any case."

"Some forward guidance would be nice, but… We probably can't tell without more sophisticated equipment. Pick your loadouts."

While we did find a replacement plasma gun, Mazikeen has opted for a rocket launcher. Something that lets her engage at maximum range, where her lack of armour will matter less. Taggart considers his shotgun for a moment, then stows it in favour of the railgun I made him.

"I'm touched."

"May as well use it, right?"

Endymion is happy with his sword, but he's fished a black medical kit out of his backpack.

Taggart winces. "Really? I didn't think you'd ever use that thing."

"Does it not work as described?"

"No, five times your strength, guaranteed. But it's like you're tripping angry acid. Every time I use one I just start saying the stupidest bullshit. 'Rip and tear your guts! You are huge! That means you have huge guts!'. Shit like that. The guys were playing recordings of it for weeks."

"You lose your capacity for reason?"

"No, I'm still all there, know what I'm doing. I just can't stop my mouth."

Endymion takes out the injector. "I will use it when we see the enemy. I would be grateful if you did not make a recording."

We form up around a Baron of Hell door, Taggart shaking his head. "Sorry, man. Mission camera's hardwired."

"Opening in two."

One.

I press the button.

".nretnaL egnarO, em llik tsum uoy, thgif eht niw oT"
 
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Mr Zoat said:
Mazikeen starts towards the tower. "The demons have shown no sign of being able to climb. If there's nothing at ground level, then whatever this place is for must be at the top, and their must be a way for them to reach the summit."
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To be fair, some of them can fly anyway.

Mr Zoat said:
"No, five times your strength, guaranteed. But it's like you're tripping angry acid. Every time I use one I just start saying the stupidest bullshit. 'Rip and tear yours guts! You are huge! That means you have huge guts!'. Shit like that. The guys were playing recordings of it for weeks."
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So if we gave one to a Red Lantern, would their personality even change all that much?

Mr Zoat said:
"nretnaL egnarO, em llik tsum uoy, thgif eht niw oT"
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Um…Icon of Avarice?
 
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