With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

GigaVanguard · 2026-07-20T06:41:07+0100

BR549 said:
"It is possible to get out of deals with demons" actualy just statistical error. Average mortal not able to get out of deals with demons. John Constantine, who lives in a trenchcoat and gets out of demonic pacts every week, is an outlier adn should not have been counted.

I do love that you kept all the spelling and grammar errors of spiders georg. So many people remember to put the adn but forget the actualy.

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-07-20T07:11:06+0100

Mr Zoat said:
21st September 2013
09:29 GMT -5

Zatanna frowns. "It's a movie prop?"

Kaldur thinks for a moment. "Perhaps it would be wise to check before confirming his place."

Kid Devil, still? Originally, much like Blue Devil before him, he used a se of powered armour disguised as a devil. Then an actual demon got involved, and he got changed...

Noriel clenches her right fist, which burns with golden fire. "If that is true, then the test shall also be his ordeal of repentance."

Zatanna gives her a mild glare. "Dressing up in a costume is not a sin."

"It-."

Eh, it's up to interpretation, really. Might fall under one commandment or another or simply be considered 'having truck with the Devil.'

"Hate.. to side with Noriel… Ever, but she does have a point." They both blink at me. "Dressing up isn't a sin, but Blue Devil went from using a prop to using demon magic, and I suspect that any sort of outward acceptance of the demonic is going to encourage people to do stupid things. Like summoning demons and making pacts with them."

Or if they're really stupid, trying it on Blue or Kid. Which probably either gets them a line to the demon that cursed them or hauls the hero in question over, at which point the clue bat can be applied.

Leonid shrugs. "Is this a problem? If Blue Devil does good, surely the demons are just out of pocket."

"Generally speaking, the objective of demons is to convince people to damn themselves and so provide the demons with more power. Under most circumstances, this causes extreme suffering to the soul in question."

And having someone parading around looking like they got the better deal might encourage fools.

"But if a person chooses to accept that suffering, and saves many lives, I do not see the problem. Surely it is no different to.. pushing someone out of the way of a car and being hit by it yourself. You break your leg, they live."

But someone is still getting hit. Whereas avoiding the deal entirely is like dodging the car without getting hit.

I nod slowly. "If the car used the strength it gained from breaking that leg to increase its ability to break more legs in the future, and the person who got pushed out of the way was statistically very likely to keep wandering around busy roads, and getting a broken leg made it harder for you to get out of the road-. I mean, it would, obviously, but permanently. Oh, and if the alternative for all parties was eternal bliss, with no cars or roads involved at all."

Really, I think the analogy broke somewhere in there, but I can't be sure...

Noriel stares at me. "I agree with everything that you just said. What are you doing?"

"I wouldn't want to become predictable, would I?" I shake my head. "It is possible to come out ahead in a deal with a demon, it much the same way that it's possible to win the lottery."

Leonid nods. "You might… But you will not."

It would take extreme amounts of luck.

"Oh, it's worse than that. There were several cases of winners of the British lottery blowing all of their winnings in a year or so and going back to being paupers because they've got no idea how to handle their wealth. Honestly, we should probably… Work out how to break Blue Devil's pact at some point."

And often wasting it on big, splashy things like fancy cars, McMansions or yachts instead of paying off debts and setting up things like a stipend.

Noriel's fire burns a little larger.

"His name's Nebiros. The demonic texts I checked suggest that he's vulnerable to water. Let me know if you want help."

Kaldur looks pointedly at me. "Thank you, but if we could return to the subject under discussion?"

One of the nastier fellows in DC, I understand. Certainly spiteful about being foiled.

"The potential demonic connection aside, he's got light power armour and can fly badly. He's reasonably athletic, considering, but he's the weakest candidate. The file suggests that he's well intentioned so we could put him on the long list for a future class, but…" I shrug-. And then stop. "Unless we're… Actually building an army, in which case, he's so psychologically malleable that he'd probably be a decent recruit as long as we understand that we'd basically be starting from scratch. Roy?"

Although Daniel Cassidy did make a stronger variant, he wasn't using it when he got stuck in the suit. That weaker suit is what Kid Devil copied. And the flight is more 'holding onto his flying trident' than any personal capability.

"Ah, yeah, that all sounds.. reasonable."

"You're the power armour guy."

He frowns at me. "You're the power armor guy."

Eh, you're both users. But one of you depends on it more than the other...

"I strap lumps of metal to myself while I fight with my ring. You're the one who uses it as your primary weapon."

He picks up the folder and flicks through it. "He's… Really just an eager kid?"

Too eager, if you asked Blue Devil...

"Honestly, yes, as far as I know."

"So if I walk up to him in costume and ask him about his armour..?"

"I doubt that you'll be able to shut him up."

Ah, yes, the nerdiness of the teen boy with an interest.

"I guess that-." He frowns. "What was that about building an army?"

"It-."

Ah, Roy hasn't heard the full 'taking over the world' argument, has he?

Zatanna slaps me across the chest. Then she winces and rubs her now bruised hand because I'm wearing armour.

"Paul-. Paul seems to think that the Justice League is taking over the world."

Honestly, kind of disappointed she hasn't been using the pretty-much fully functional Sororitas armour from that cosplay trip. A little visual tweak for copyright purposes and she's be a lot more effective, even if her magic was interfered with...

"I am not allowed to talk about-."

"Shut up."

Heh, the banter of old friends very familiar with each other's injokes.

She glares at me and I raise my hands in surrender.

"He thinks that the Justice League is taking over government responsibilities and won't give them back."

Can't really be certain of that until the time comes that some government asks for it back.

Noriel tilts her head back. "The governments of the world are corrupted by vice and tainted by sin. The Justice League are virtuous in the practical sense, even if some of them should repent and embrace proper piety. They are a far superior choice."

Roy stares at nothing much as he thinks it over. "I guess she's… Not wrong. Ah, Kaldur, you got anything to say?"

Honestly, most of the time it comes up, it's usually the Americans getting concerned, while those from other systems are more philosophical about it.

Kaldur shrugs. "King Orin would rule Atlantis either way. I suppose that having a single universal set of trading laws would make interactions with the surface a little easier."

Zatanna blinks, then turns to Leonid. "Red Star, how do you feel about it?"

...Asking the young man who would have been born in the dying days of Soviet Communism (and whose parents would have lived under the Party) about a small group of powerful individuals taking leadership? This should be interesting.

"I… Do not know. In Russia, we are usually more comfortable with autocratic authority than Americans, and… I admit, I think that Batman is a good leader. But from a nationalist perspective I would have to resist authority being transferred from the Russian government to anyone else, outside of the temporary emergency agreements which we have now."

A patriotic outlook, yes.

I reach up and make the air quote sign, and mouth the word 'temporary'.

Leonid stares blankly. "I.. cannot lip read you."

Because his first language isn't English, and he doesn't recognise the lipflaps.

"I am expressing scepticism about it being temporary. In Britain, almost all royal authority was lost not because of revolution, but because Queen Victoria just didn't exercise it for a long time after her husband died and parliament had to work around her. Even if governments re-establish themselves, they'll find that a lot of stuff is just handled by the Justice League now, and that there's no real appetite for changing it."

Especially if the League is paying for it? That would be a big aspect of it, as governments have to start spending their own money to manage matters...

Roy nods. "So you think this is about setting up the Justice League version of West Point?"

"Thing about these people?" I pat the pile of folders. "None of them are the apprentices of League members. This isn't about training assistants, substitutes or successors. This is expansion."

And while he advocated for that, he probably meant with adults willing to join up rather than teenagers and outcasts being invited in as an officer corps.

"And the OMACs are the enlisted. Okay. But you're doing it anyway."

I shrug. "I don't exactly mind the Justice League taking over the Earth. I just want to know that there's a plan, that we're not just going to stumble into it unprepared." I wiggle the folder of a silver-skinned young woman I've honestly never heard of before. "But this is a good start."

I presume she doesn't have the part-alien backstory here, or that the matter was handled privately without larger involvement...

Kaldur shakes his head. "I think it would be best if we did not encourage them to believe that."

I nod. "No, they might not have the skills required."

He inclines his head towards me. "Since you have that folder, perhaps you could introduce her to us?"

To be fair, most of the League don't have the skills necessary to rule a planet. As for new recruits, part of their education under this program can include that sort of thing...

It's always interesting to see how people respond to OL's idea about the League and the governance of Earth. Especially those from outside the US, who grew up with non-democratic systems. Seeing the discussion of prospects' various quirks is also telling, like Noriel's concerns about Kid Devil's abilities and image.

Khettien · 2026-07-20T07:41:00+0100

Mr Zoat said:
I shrug. "I don't exactly mind the Justice League taking over the Earth. I just want to know that there's a plan, that we're not just going to stumble into it unprepared."

I wish I believed that the world was run by people who could see clearly and have cogent plans. But I'm pretty sure it's selfish, greedy, short-sighted turtles all the way down.

Not all of them, but far too many.

WereDragon · 2026-07-20T10:01:34+0100

Mr Zoat said:
I shrug. "I don't exactly mind the Justice League taking over the Earth. I just want to know that there's a plan, that we're not just going to stumble into it unprepared."

Valid. The structure and concepts of a government matter a lot less than the quality of execution. Do it properly and you can make just about any arrangement work. Do it badly and you just end up with compounding corruption and incompetence.

SirKaid · 2026-07-20T13:40:21+0100

I mean, there are two main reasons democracy is preferable to autocracy. First, it doesn't take a civil war to remove a bad leader; at worst, you need to wait for the next election. Second, the ruler has to cater to a larger interest group in order to remain in power.

Like, in a void, a theoretical "good king" would be ideal, but history shows us that A) "good kings" are uncommon at best, and B) the heir is virtually never another "good king". Unless you've got Sailor Moon or the more powerful versions of Superman on the throne, an immortal superhero with unimpeachable moral standing, it doesn't matter how good the autocrat is at their job because the heir is going to suck.

I get why Paul and the others don't care about the downsides, though. Quite apart from the fact that they're going to be the ruling class, Earth is kinda fucked right now and a functional government that's going to be an enormous problem in twenty years is better than nothing.

Mr Zoat · 2026-07-20T14:50:33+0100

SirKaid said:
I mean, there are two main reasons democracy is preferable to autocracy. First, it doesn't take a civil war to remove a bad leader; at worst, you need to wait for the next election. Second, the ruler has to cater to a larger interest group in order to remain in power.

Like, in a void, a theoretical "good king" would be ideal, but history shows us that A) "good kings" are uncommon at best, and B) the heir is virtually never another "good king". Unless you've got Sailor Moon or the more powerful versions of Superman on the throne, an immortal superhero with unimpeachable moral standing, it doesn't matter how good the autocrat is at their job because the heir is going to suck.

I get why Paul and the others don't care about the downsides, though. Quite apart from the fact that they're going to be the ruling class, Earth is kinda fucked right now and a functional government that's going to be an enormous problem in twenty years is better than nothing.

The other issue is that when you throw superpowers into the mix, you genuinely get individuals who can handle an autocratic workload in a way that a normal person can't.

Without wanting to restart arguments, do we actually learn anything about Sailor Moon's reign? What her economic and social policies are? How her bureaucracy is structured?

CrazyNoVa · 2026-07-20T14:53:01+0100

You know, maybe Paul would have an easier time convincing his teammates that the League is taking over the world if he emphasized the fact that they are doing it ACCIDENTALLY. That way, it would be an easier pill for them to swallow.

Ngamer11 said:
I can't wait to see people like Sinestro or alternate universe versions of the Justice League comment on this situation.

I agree. It would be especially interesting to see either the Earth 12 (DCAU) or Earth 50 (Justice Lords) Leagues react to this, considering their unique perspectives on the matter.

boo600 · 2026-07-20T15:49:52+0100

Mr Zoat said:
No, I meant that Cadbury Shipping can handle it. We're basically magical Amazon these days.

So does Luthor own Amazon, or does Bezos exist in DC verse? Or… did. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the more morally… flexible billionaires died in the anti-life, at least for the ones that came from wealth and never struggled/suffered much before.

Mr Zoat said:
The other issue is that when you throw superpowers into the mix, you genuinely get individuals who can handle an autocratic workload in a way that a normal person can't.

Without wanting to restart arguments, do we actually learn anything about Sailor Moon's reign? What her economic and social policies are? How her bureaucracy is structured?

Sailor Moon has fairly solid worldbuilding with no plot holes, by virtue of not actually having much worldbuilding beneath the hood. Everything is vague. However:

The Silver Crystal is capable of planetary-scale reality warping, and without using its max power, it can aid in the health of Usagi's subjects, keeping them near peak health and extending their lifespan… centuries? Or possibly millennium. I think it's centuries, but I don't recall the exact number.

She took over with a policy of 'unfreeze the planet, banish all the super-war criminals, free healthcare for everyone.' I don't think there's that much detail beyond that.

Edit: to be clear, most of my knowledge of SM comes from Dungeon Keeper Ami discourse, reading the Dark Lords of Nerima, and Ryuugi's Queen of the Moon/Lovehammer contribution, as well as his rants. Ryuugi in particular tends to know things he rants about very well, and be a major contributor to quote repositories and lore threads, so I generally defer to what he says.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/thr...rd-the-queen-of-the-moon.577922/post-79176323

Notably, when she became Queen in the future, her known policies were such things as 'Make everyone nigh-immortal and give them super-healthcare' and 'Kick out the mass murdering terrorists.'

Which, being fair, that'd get my vote; pretty easy to build a campaign off of 'everyone can live a thousand years and not have to worry about diseases and stuff.'

https://forums.spacebattles.com/thr...rd-the-queen-of-the-moon.577922/post-50170309

…"I don't know if it would make any difference at that point, but I should be able to extend their lives by at least a thousand years if I use my crystal," the Queen said, and a crystal lotus bloomed at her breast, a bud of something much larger wearing a woman's skin. The crystallized offshoot of a very large, very different soul shined as it reflected the light.

Steelplaza · 2026-07-20T15:51:57+0100

I'm pretty skeptical that the League will remain in control of the world forever unless they take active measures to remain in power.

It doesn't matter how good you are at the job, you can't please everyone. Government is about trade-offs. When the people or region who doesn't like the decision declare they're going to do their own thing, the League can either send in the OMACs to force them to bend knee or accept it.

More likely, the League ends up in some sort of power-sharing agreement with national governments (collectively and individually) where the League provides the muscle for planetary defense and suppressing the latest super-nonsense, and the governments provide the legitimacy and handle more of the "you can't please everyone" decisions (sorry, you do have to pay taxes on this, and that other practice is banned, and that other, other practice is not banned) with the League getting a veto on anything that offends their moral sensibilities too much.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the relationship between the Legion of Superheroes and the United Planets/Science Police, and that does seem like the closest comic book land model. The Legion doesn't rule the UP, but they can also do a lot of things whether the UP likes it or not.

CrazyNoVa · 2026-07-20T15:57:58+0100

Alternatively, it's also possible that this Earth could end up like the comic book version of the Justice Lords from the Batman Beyond continuity, in which the people of their Earth voluntarily decided to place themselves back under the Lords' rule and were actively rooting for the Lords to make a return after they got overthrown. Basically a less malevolent version of the One Earth Regime from Injustice.

I guess that makes it a rare fictional example of a planetary electorial dictatorship where the citizens of Earth actually did choose to live under a singular autocratic government of their own free will.

Mr Zoat · 2026-07-20T16:38:54+0100

boo600 said:
Notably, when she became Queen in the future, her known policies were such things as 'Make everyone nigh-immortal and give them super-healthcare' and 'Kick out the mass murdering terrorists.'

That's not so much 'super healthcare' as 'I control the bodies of every human on Earth'.

CrazyNoVa said:
I guess that makes it a rare fictional example of a planetary electorial dictatorship where the citizens of Earth actually did choose to live under a singular autocratic government of their own free will.

Something similar happened in the Earthworm Jim cartoon. Princess What's-Her-Name's revolution was successful, and she implemented democracy. And because she didn't want to become an autocrat, she didn't stand herself. Her sister, on the other hand...

Vaermina · 2026-07-20T16:52:22+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"Hate.. to side with Noriel… Ever, but she does have a point." They both blink at me. "Dressing up isn't a sin, but Blue Devil went from using a prop to using demon magic, and I suspect that any sort of outward acceptance of the demonic is going to encourage people to do stupid things. Like summoning demons and making pacts with them."

Like Orange Lantern regularly does!

Alan975 · 2026-07-20T18:46:54+0100

Vaermina said:
Like Orange Lantern regularly does!

You seem to have missed the point again

Since you like to focus on Ol's wrongs over everything interesting, lets first look at that.
His deals have visibly reduced the overall negative effects brough about by hells residents, bar possibly whatever comes from the parley with the silver city. Not that I expect that to turn sour, but it could.

The normalization of the usage of demons as a solution would be a worse version of the 'civilization being reliant on costumed lunatics' problem, they'd turn to that first rather than the vast number of other less damnable solutions that require more work.

Edit: a nitpick, you're also wrong. He has had privet beneficial interactions with demons, here he is agreeing with Noriel on the outward acceptance.

boo600 · 2026-07-20T19:49:52+0100

Mr Zoat said:
That's not so much 'super healthcare' as 'I control the bodies of every human on Earth'.

Something similar happened in the Earthworm Jim cartoon. Princess What's-Her-Name's revolution was successful, and she implemented democracy. And because she didn't want to become an autocrat, she didn't stand herself. Her sister, on the other hand...

*shrugs*

There are apparently Moon Kingdom… well, they're basically bacta tanks. They have healing pods.

Presumably, actual full-body biokinesis, constantly, across the entire planet would be an actual strain, or even put the Silver Crystal in Full Danger-To-The-User Power mode, so she's just… putting a magic aura of no-aging-past-your-prime based on moon/silver/purity/eternity/whatever, and the free healthcare just comes from Ami Mizuno and the Silver yadda yadda Eternity Supercomputer (which is separate from the Mercury computer, and belongs to Sailor Moon). They can apparently alter reality by typing really fast, so I presume logistics and the requirements of training doctors (even advanced ones) just sort of melt when a 'smart' character looks in a direction under the order of their Eternal Queen.

SirKaid · 2026-07-20T20:50:04+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Without wanting to restart arguments, do we actually learn anything about Sailor Moon's reign? What her economic and social policies are? How her bureaucracy is structured?

We don't know anything about the inner workings of Neo Queen Serenity's government. All that we know is people live at least a thousand years in perfect health and the outside influence (Chaos) that causes people to be evil has been largely banished.

We also know from Usagi's character that she's a fundamentally good person who has no trouble admitting when she's wrong and asking for help, and that said help includes the smartest person in the setting.

Finally, if things go drastically pear shaped, she has a reality warping artifact grafted to her soul as an emergency button.

So, no, we don't specifically know what her policies are, but we know they would be kind and compassionate, and that's more important.

Darko · 2026-07-20T22:01:42+0100

Vaermina said:
Like Orange Lantern regularly does!

Except not really.

Paul is much, much more powerful than a majority of people.

He's also much, much more knowledgeable than a majority of people when it comes to the demonic.

He's also much, much more well connected than a majority of people to various powerful and knowledgeable mystic individuals, groups etc.

A demon will try to screw over the average person when making a deal, because that person can't do anything about that, doesn't know how to do anything about it, doesn't know anyone that can do anything about it or know what to do.

A demon trying to screw over Paul is very quickly going to find themselves having a new orange glow.

Steelplaza · 2026-07-20T23:00:17+0100

Originally of course, Blue Devil did not make a deal with a demon. He defeated Nebiros using the demonic-looking power armor he made to film a movie, and Nebiros accidentally-on-purpose[1] cursed him to bond the power armor onto his body and make it flesh. So he'd be a rare example of a guy using demonic magic without having made an actual bargain with demons.

I really like that version of Blue Devil better. It makes him a more fun character rather than the angsty actual demonic pact version.

[1] It's not totally clear what Nebiros thought he was doing, but given he thought he was casting the spell on a fellow demon there's no doubt he completely fucked it up.

BR549 · 2026-07-21T02:11:58+0100

SirKaid said:
Finally, if things go drastically pear shaped, she has a reality warping artifact grafted to her soul as an emergency button.

I think - it's been quite awhile - we see the Silver Crystal used in that fashion twice; the catch is if you have to use it it doesn't necessarily go well for the user. Queen Serenity (the OG) used it to stop Beryl/Metallia's first go but the consequences were her death and reincarnation...which (IIRC) took quite awhile. Upside, it also reincarnated everyone else in her inner circle. Downside, it also reincarnated Beryl and her goon squad, leading to Round 2 ended by Usagi using it and only losing/resetting a year.

(This implies that either Usagi Tsuinko, Just Starting High School, is more magically powerful than Queen Serenity of the Silver Millenium (and/)or she has Rank EX+++ luck.)

Of course, the thing isn't necessarily an infallible I Win button anyway, as the Dark Moon Clan and Wiseman demonstrated it is possible to blindside the user...

hkim · 2026-07-21T05:30:44+0100

Vaermina said:
Like Orange Lantern regularly does!

spiders l'orange

Chaoswind · 2026-07-21T05:48:25+0100

BR549 said:
I think - it's been quite awhile - we see the Silver Crystal used in that fashion twice; the catch is if you have to use it it doesn't necessarily go well for the user. Queen Serenity (the OG) used it to stop Beryl/Metallia's first go but the consequences were her death and reincarnation...which (IIRC) took quite awhile. Upside, it also reincarnated everyone else in her inner circle. Downside, it also reincarnated Beryl and her goon squad, leading to Round 2 ended by Usagi using it and only losing/resetting a year.

(This implies that either Usagi Tsuinko, Just Starting High School, is more magically powerful than Queen Serenity of the Silver Millenium (and/)or she has Rank EX+++ luck.)

Of course, the thing isn't necessarily an infallible I Win button anyway, as the Dark Moon Clan and Wiseman demonstrated it is possible to blindside the user...

The silver cristal gets upgraded so that is probably what made the difference. OG serenity had to make do with the moon cristal as it was all the way back then, Usagi gets to use the upgraded version.

There are a ton of theories as to why the silver Cristal is as powerful as it is and at this point of my life Canon blends seamlessly with fanon in my memories, so I cannot honestly give a factual opinion about it.

Mr Zoat · 2026-07-21T06:14:35+0100

13th June 2284
16:29 GMT -7

"Weeeeeeell…. Shit."

General McMahan has taken the news about as well as could be expected. He sits back in his chair, exhaling slowly through puckered lips. Major Moines, who had a summary beforehand, simply remains stoical.

"Two hundred years, huh? Okay, fine, not exactly what I expected when I went under, but they probably put it in the small print. What other bad news you got for me?"

"The United States no longer exists as a political entity."

He straightens up. "What, did the Commies win?"

"It was more of a double knockout."

"Okay, that was more in line with what I was expecting. But the radiation should have died down after ten to twenty years, and then the vaults should have opened. What the Hell happened?"

"I'm afraid that the vault project-."

"They didn't work?" He frowns. "I checked Vault One Hundred myself, my brother's family went in there."

"No, they worked. When they were intended to."

"What the Hell do you mean by that?"

"Vault-Tec used a lot of the vaults for biological, sociological and psychological experiments. And while some vaults were 'control vaults' with no experiment, those weren't actually meant to sustain a viable population either."

"What the Hell were they for, then?"

"The Enclave was researching the viability of moving people either to space-based habitats, or habitats which would be built on other planets. They needed to test how people would react to living in that sort of situation."

"You got any proof of that?"

"There's a recording of what the.. head of the Enclave said to a descendant of the Vault Thirteen survivors forty years ago, shortly before the Poseidon Oil Rig was destroyed. Admitted to the whole thing. I don't have a copy of the recording with me, but if you want to come to one of California's major libraries, they all have a copy."

"Weeeeeeell…. Shit. Okay. Poseidon Oil Rig, we talking about the same thing? Control Station Enclave."

"Yes, General."

Major Moines frowns. "General, should we be talking about-?"

He flaps his right hand dismissively. "It's been two hundred years, Major. Every piece of classified information we know is utterly worthless. It's more important that we get ourselves situated as fast as possible."

"Sir."

"Okay." The General raises his hands in a gesture of appeal. "So where did the resistance come from?"

"General?"

"The Enclave would have started trying to restore America as soon as it was safe to do so. Did the survivors of the Vault experiments blame the American government for what happened?"

"Ah, no. In.. point of fact, the Enclave mostly kept to itself for over a century."

He blinks. "Excuse me?"

"I'm not exactly sure why, but aside from a few army bases and private vaults, they didn't really interact with the surviving population until about fifty years ago."

"What the Hell were they doing?"

"They designed a new model of power armour. Ah. And they created a super virus."

"And what did the virus do?"

"It killed you."

He mulls that over for a moment. I doubt that an officer of his generation would have a moral problem with a biological weapon, but he could well have a practical one. "Were they gunna fire it at China?"

"No, they were going to immunise their own people and then release it locally."

"But that doesn't make any sense, it would just have killed off the vault survivors."

"Yes, General. Or, rather, if things had gone according to plan, it would have killed them first, and then been blown around the world on the winds and killed all other survivors as well."

"What the Hell did they want to do that for?"

"As far as we can tell, they believed that non-Enclave survivors were sub-human 'mutants', and needed to be slaughtered so that righteous Enclave-aligned humans could reclaim America."

"Were they on drugs?"

"Not unusually so."

"Goddamn. Okay. So I guess they're all dead, and we're all that's left?"

"No. Quite a lot of Enclave personnel weren't on the rig when it was destroyed, and they followed protocol and either went to ground or retreated to back-up sites. Most of them ended up either joining the local communities or settling in Iowa."

He nods, then frowns. "Why Iowa? I don't remember there being an Enclave-aligned facility there."

"No, General. They went to Iowa because it was entirely uninhabited."

"Iowa was-?" He bites his tongue, but I'll answer anyway.

"China knew that between the New Plague and the resource shortages, America was struggling to keep its population fed. They actually prioritised hitting farmland over small cities."

He nods, then thinks for a moment. "Alright. Shit's fucked. What are our options?"

"You could become military governor of Alaska. The whole Alaska-Washington-Oregon-Cascadia area is a bit of a mess at the moment."

"I'm here because it's where my country needed me, not because I fuck penguins for fun."

"Okay. They'd be happy to have you in Iowa. Things are a bit basic, but that's true just about everywhere and they'd probably be most similar to you in terms of outlook."

"We're soldiers, Mister Krono. I didn't join the army because I wanted to take over the family farm. Does Iowa need a company of elite Commie-killers?"

"Ah, not really. Ah. Washington State? Things are a mess, but the.. alliance of resurrected states would be a lot happier if someone of proven ability to oversee the transition back to civilisation."

"'Resurrected states'? I though you said that America didn't exist."

"Civilisation's had two hundred years to recover. It's not all the way there yet, but we're getting closer. In fact…" I pull my satellite phone out of my satchel and hold out a cable, gesturing to his desk computer. "May I?"

"Go ahead."

I plug it in, and press call…

Governor Hayes' face appears after a momentary delay. I asked if he'd be willing to wait on the line, because 'Governor' is a title these people would actually recognise.

"And who might you be?"

"I'm Grant Columbus Hayes, Governor of California. I think that makes me just about the highest ranking American government official, by your standards. And my family were Enclave, prior to the rig being destroyed."

The general nods. "And what do you want with the last soldiers of America?"

Grant smiles. "General, that's not exactly a short list."

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-07-21T06:59:58+0100

Mr Zoat said:
13th June 2284
16:29 GMT -7

"Weeeeeeell…. Shit."

General McMahan has taken the news about as well as could be expected. He sits back in his chair, exhaling slowly through puckered lips. Major Moines, who had a summary beforehand, simply remains stoical.

Ah, they had no idea how long they'd been in stasis? Bit shitty of the Immortal to keep them in the dark. Presumably all this happened in a relatively short time anyway, so they might have been woken up and immediately been chivvied into shipping out

"Two hundred years, huh? Okay, fine, not exactly what I expected when I went under, but they probably put it in the small print. What other bad news you got for me?"

"The United States no longer exists as a political entity."

Which might be the harder part to believe, given the supposed robustness of preparations for continuity of statehood.

He straightens up. "What, did the Commies win?"

"It was more of a double knockout."

Tends to happen when everyone starts tossing nukes around like confetti.

"Okay, that was more in line with what I was expecting. But the radiation should have died down after ten to twenty years, and then the vaults should have opened. What the Hell happened?"

"I'm afraid that the vault project-."

Ah, this is going to be the big shocker.

"They didn't work?" He frowns. "I checked Vault One Hundred myself, my brother's family went in there."

"No, they worked. When they were intended to."

That vast majority were not, sadly.

"What the Hell do you mean by that?"

"Vault-Tec used a lot of the vaults for biological, sociological and psychological experiments. And while some vaults were 'control vaults' with no experiment, those weren't actually meant to sustain a viable population either."

Naturally, none of the vault dwellers were ever told this, either.

"What the Hell were they for, then?"

"The Enclave was researching the viability of moving people either to space-based habitats, or habitats which would be built on other planets. They needed to test how people would react to living in that sort of situation."

Turns out it wasn't great, as far as the Enclave's testing conditions went.

"You got any proof of that?"

"There's a recording of what the.. head of the Enclave said to a descendant of the Vault Thirteen survivors forty years ago, shortly before the Poseidon Oil Rig was destroyed. Admitted to the whole thing. I don't have a copy of the recording with me, but if you want to come to one of California's major libraries, they all have a copy."

Damning, certainly. That would be one of the early Fallout Games, no?

"Weeeeeeell…. Shit. Okay. Poseidon Oil Rig, we talking about the same thing? Control Station Enclave."

"Yes, General."

Because of course things had different names between then and now. Really, they should be glad the wastelanders still speak recognisable English... Sorry, American.

Major Moines frowns. "General, should we be talking about-?"

He flaps his right hand dismissively. "It's been two hundred years, Major. Every piece of classified information we know is utterly worthless. It's more important that we get ourselves situated as fast as possible."

The default limit on said declassification being 25 years, unless there was serious deviation in the Fallout timeline.

"Sir."

"Okay." The General raises his hands in a gesture of appeal. "So where did the resistance come from?"

You'll have to be more specific on that front.

"General?"

"The Enclave would have started trying to restore America as soon as it was safe to do so. Did the survivors of the Vault experiments blame the American government for what happened?"

Best to save questions like that for after the full briefing, General, this one's a doozy.

"Ah, no. In.. point of fact, the Enclave mostly kept to itself for over a century."

He blinks. "Excuse me?"

"I'm not exactly sure why, but aside from a few army bases and private vaults, they didn't really interact with the surviving population until about fifty years ago."

Oh, it totally gets better. Or worse, depending on your perspective.

"What the Hell were they doing?"

"They designed a new model of power armour. Ah. And they created a super virus."

Admittedly, the former was at least useful. The latter...

"And what did the virus do?"

"It killed you."

Oh, it gets better. Tell him why.

He mulls that over for a moment. I doubt that an officer of his generation would have a moral problem with a biological weapon, but he could well have a practical one. "Were they gunna fire it at China?"

"No, they were going to immunise their own people and then release it locally."

After all, why bother conquering another country when your own was still ripe for the pickings?

"But that doesn't make any sense, it would just have killed off the vault survivors."

"Yes, General. Or, rather, if things had gone according to plan, it would have killed them first, and then been blown around the world on the winds and killed all other survivors as well."

Hopefully it would eventually die off, or things could have gotten tricky.

"What the Hell did they want to do that for?"

"As far as we can tell, they believed that non-Enclave survivors were sub-human 'mutants', and needed to be slaughtered so that righteous Enclave-aligned humans could reclaim America."

And to be fair, even the most normal humans around were slightly mutated in some way. Or maybe that's just the result of the Oblivion engine.

"Were they on drugs?"

"Not unusually so."

Whoever thought that virus plan must have been on the really good shit, though.

"Goddamn. Okay. So I guess they're all dead, and we're all that's left?"

"No. Quite a lot of Enclave personnel weren't on the rig when it was destroyed, and they followed protocol and either went to ground or retreated to back-up sites. Most of them ended up either joining the local communities or settling in Iowa."

I expect some are easier to spot than others.

He nods, then frowns. "Why Iowa? I don't remember there being an Enclave-aligned facility there."

"No, General. They went to Iowa because it was entirely uninhabited."

And they'd likely have brought along enough equipment to set up facilities quickly anyway.

"Iowa was-?" He bites his tongue, but I'll answer anyway.

"China knew that between the New Plague and the resource shortages, America was struggling to keep its population fed. They actually prioritised hitting farmland over small cities."

That's... Surprisingly petty. Intelligent, but petty.

He nods, then thinks for a moment. "Alright. Shit's fucked. What are our options?"

"You could become military governor of Alaska. The whole Alaska-Washington-Oregon-Cascadia area is a bit of a mess at the moment."

...So pretty much every bit of the Pacific/north-western coast of North America.

"I'm here because it's where my country needed me, not because I fuck penguins for fun."

"Okay. They'd be happy to have you in Iowa. Things are a bit basic, but that's true just about everywhere and they'd probably be most similar to you in terms of outlook."

Eh, he may find what the Enclave has devolved into unpalatable.

"We're soldiers, Mister Krono. I didn't join the army because I wanted to take over the family farm. Does Iowa need a company of elite Commie-killers?"

"Ah, not really. Ah. Washington State? Things are a mess, but the.. alliance of resurrected states would be a lot happier if someone of proven ability to oversee the transition back to civilisation."

And given the dishevelled condition of the region, they could use a strong hand at the wheel.

"'Resurrected states'? I though you said that America didn't exist."

"Civilisation's had two hundred years to recover. It's not all the way there yet, but we're getting closer. In fact…" I pull my satellite phone out of my satchel and hold out a cable, gesturing to his desk computer. "May I?"

It might not be the America he remembers, but there will be a United States before long.

"Go ahead."

I plug it in, and press call…

Governor Hayes' face appears after a momentary delay. I asked if he'd be willing to wait on the line, because 'Governor' is a title these people would actually recognise.

Hopefully the general does recognise it as valid.

"And who might you be?"

"I'm Grant Columbus Hayes, Governor of California. I think that makes me just about the highest ranking American government official, by your standards. And my family were Enclave, prior to the rig being destroyed."

That's not necessarily a bonus, depending on the general's reaction to the Enclave's affairs.

The general nods. "And what do you want with the last soldiers of America?"

Grant smiles. "General, that's not exactly a short list."

Among other things, capturing the Immortal and reclaiming the forces he suborned...

Inevitably, the general would naturally be shocked by some of the things he's learning about in Krono's briefing. I suspect the worst part of it was the agency made to rebuild America after the war ended up going full mad scientist instead. If anything, he probably approves of local folks' efforts to re-establish wider government despite the Enclave...

Vaermina · 2026-07-21T07:01:47+0100

BR549 said:
I think - it's been quite awhile - we see the Silver Crystal used in that fashion twice; the catch is if you have to use it it doesn't necessarily go well for the user. Queen Serenity (the OG) used it to stop Beryl/Metallia's first go but the consequences were her death and reincarnation...which (IIRC) took quite awhile. Upside, it also reincarnated everyone else in her inner circle. Downside, it also reincarnated Beryl and her goon squad, leading to Round 2 ended by Usagi using it and only losing/resetting a year.

(This implies that either Usagi Tsuinko, Just Starting High School, is more magically powerful than Queen Serenity of the Silver Millenium (and/)or she has Rank EX+++ luck.)

Of course, the thing isn't necessarily an infallible I Win button anyway, as the Dark Moon Clan and Wiseman demonstrated it is possible to blindside the user...

Usagi is more powerful then Queen Serenity.

The whole story of Usagi's birth is that Queen Serenity went to the Galaxy Cauldron and that Usagi was the "shell of a star" she plucked out of it.

Also, the Dark Moon Clan specifically happened because Usagi's daughter "borrowed" the silver crystal leaving Earth vulnerable.

Graeme · 2026-07-21T07:38:06+0100

Mr Zoat said:
"You could become military governor of Alaska. The whole Alaska-Washington-Oregon-Cascadia area is a bit of a mess at the moment."

"I'm here because it's where my country needed me, not because I fuck penguins for fun."

Grant smiles. "General, that's not exactly a short list."

Two weird pieces of geography here.
Alaska is not in the same area as Washington and Oregon. About 500 miles of Canada is in between. (I am unfamiliar with Fallout, however so perhaps at least one of those states has expanded beyond it's real life borders)

Penguins are, of course, an antarctic, southern pole thing, so he wouldn't be visiting Alaska to fuck them anyway. However it's completely possible that he's making an in-universe joke here, or maybe in-character making a mistake, or perhaps its just more Fallout weirdness.

Mr Zoat · 2026-07-21T08:39:00+0100

Graeme said:
Two weird pieces of geography here.
Alaska is not in the same area as Washington and Oregon. About 500 miles of Canada is in between. (I am unfamiliar with Fallout, however so perhaps at least one of those states has expanded beyond it's real life borders)

Yes, Cascadia. In this timeline it was mostly conquered by the Washington Brotherhood or their allies.

Penguins are, of course, an antarctic, southern pole thing, so he wouldn't be visiting Alaska to fuck them anyway. However it's completely possible that he's making an in-universe joke here, or maybe in-character making a mistake, or perhaps its just more Fallout weirdness.

Fuck polar bears, then?

Neruz · 2026-07-21T09:02:33+0100

Heh. Going "I'm not here to fuck [insert local animal]" implies an Australian background for the general, or perhaps he has\had Australian friends and picked up some lingo.

Silverias · 2026-07-21T09:07:20+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Yes, Cascadia. In this timeline it was mostly conquered by the Washington Brotherhood or their allies.

Fuck polar bears, then?

A fun way to remember this is that arctic literally means "bears" and Antarctic means there's no bears, and Antarctica was named before it was discovered. They found bears at the North Pole, and decided there must be another cold place on the other side of the planet with no bears.

Mr Zoat · 2026-07-21T13:18:24+0100

Silverias said:
A fun way to remember this is that arctic literally means "bears" and Antarctic means there's no bears, and Antarctica was named before it was discovered. They found bears at the North Pole, and decided there must be another cold place on the other side of the planet with no bears.

Nearly. It's not the living bears. It's the constellation Ursa Major. Antarctica means 'opposite the bear'.

mastermenthe · 2026-07-21T14:37:32+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Nearly. It's not the living bears. It's the constellation Ursa Major. Antarctica means 'opposite the bear'.

Place with Bear Constellation.
Place without Bear Constellation.

hkim · 2026-07-21T14:42:04+0100

mastermenthe said:
Place with Bear Constellation.
Place without Bear Constellation.

They DO say the cold is unbearable at McMurdo sometimes.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Versed in the lewd.

Veteran Lurker

Perpetually confused

Bookwyrm

Know what you're doing yet?

Dedicated ragequitter

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Welp

Custom Title

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Dedicated ragequitter

Well worn.

Not too sore, are you?

Welp

Know what you're doing yet?

Connoisseur.

Custom Title

This is filth! FILTH!!

Not too sore, are you?

Lord of nonsense

Dedicated ragequitter

Veteran Lurker

Well worn.

Getting out there.

Dedicated ragequitter

HISSSSSS!

Not too sore, are you?

Dedicated ragequitter

Mint Thistle

Not too sore, are you?

Users who are viewing this thread