With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

PDV · Aug 27, 2019

Coda said:
True, but legitimate scarcity means something, as opposed to scarcity-by-decree which gives fiat currency any value.

The gold in a gold coin is worth only a small fraction of the nominal value of the coin. All currency derives the vast majority of its value from the collective agreement of the populace to treat it as a valid IOU. (Or for some "currencies", from pure speculation. But you knew that.)

Coda · Aug 27, 2019

PDV said:
The gold in a gold coin is worth only a small fraction of the nominal value of the coin. All currency derives the vast majority of its value from the collective agreement of the populace to treat it as a valid IOU. (Or for some "currencies", from pure speculation. But you knew that.)

That's not universally true. That's a description of fiat currency, with seignorage.

However, currency that's actually backed by precious goods aren't just TREATED as valid IOUs -- they ARE valid IOUs. You can (at least in theory) take that IOU to a suitable bank and exchange it for the actual good it represents. Therefore, the currency can be traded as if it were the equivalent object it represents. (Of course, it also means that the currency is subject to changes in how the populace values the goods backing it.) At this point, we can unify the discussion and disregard the form of the currency and discuss barter.

In a barter system, there aren't necessarily established numeric values for anything. (This is, of course, why barter systems stopped being used -- they don't scale to an industrialized society.) Rather, value comes from offering someone something that they want in exchange for something that you want. In a barter system, precious metals are valuable because they're rare. It shows that you have access to labor -- either by having performed it yourself by mining them, or by having access to someone who does (directly or indirectly). If you can FLAUNT that you have rare things, then that indicates that you have access to an excess of labor (again, directly or indirectly) and can therefore afford to use it on frivolous things.

Chaoswind · Aug 27, 2019

Anyone remembers if Zoat answered what happened to Dana Dearden after the time trapper roller-coaster?

Siskulous · Aug 27, 2019

OMFG. At the rate he's going, Paul's going to create a war between a bunch of rival Orange Lanterns in Vega. Seriously, what are the odds that half these people he's handed that book to sign on with his corps if they manage to call a ring? Vega's gonna end up less stable than it is now for him handing that thing out.

Mr Zoat · Aug 27, 2019

thebishop8 said:
Found another old mistake:
Telepathic conversation needs telepathic end quotes.

Looks like this mistake was caught by someone in the original spacebattles thread, but it got missed somehow.

Thank you, corrected.

Now that the old corrections are dealt with (for the most part) I have some questions, mostly about things that seem contradictory. If you find these questions annoying, please feel free to tell me to knock it off.

Look, I once spent an hour answering point by point a series of complaints made by someone who clearly hated everything I'd written. I think I can stand a few nitpicks from someone who's been doing my corrections.

1. Paul once gave pizza that had been in subspace to some random guys, and Artemis pointed out that he didn't check to see if subspace pizza was safe to eat:

But Artemis had seen Paul give Jade a subspace biscuit before:

So why did they both think that a subspace pizza would be different from a subspace biscuit?

Okay, changed my mind.

...

I haven't read the rest as I write this, but I suspect that the answer will be basically the same. The SI got a perfect memory from his ring because my memory is very far from perfect. Artemis expressed concern then not for any deep story-based reason but because I didn't remember that she'd seen that. We could pretend that Jade's body was in the way and she didn't have line of sight to the biscuits, but... Yeah, that's the reason.

2. When Paul encounters Truggs' phased devices for the first time, he acts like he is unable to scan for them.

But earlier in the story, the ring tells him he is able to do something called 'multiphasic scanning'.

So what is 'multiphasic scanning' and why doesn't Paul bother with it against Truggs' devices?

Hey, I was right!

[bullshitting]He tried, but at this point Truggs was already incorporating simple magic into his devices and it didn't work.[/bullshitting]

3. At one point, Paul mentions that he hadn't been prosecuted for the thefts he did in order to make the giant cake.

But later he said that he had to settle some lawsuits.

Well, doesn't a lawsuit imply that he was prosecuted? Had he just not been prosecuted yet, or were the lawsuits involving the giant cake about something other than the theft?

Sceptic said:
Civil versus criminal. Clearly nobody bothered with a criminal prosecution, but a few people brought civil suits.

thebishop8 said:
4. So, in March, Paul mentioned to Lois Lane that he hadn't seen her since January.

But he had seen her less than two weeks before, to help save her from the Prankster:

Is the Prankster so pathetic that they just want to ignore that the incident ever happened?

Eh, I'll change that.

5. When Superman 12 said that he sometimes wears a lead-lined suit to protect himself from Kryptonite, Paul thought that meant he was doing better than Superman 16:

But Paul once mentioned that Superman 16 did use lead suits sometimes:

So what did Paul mean when he said Superman 12 was doing better?

[bullshitting]Superman 16 picked up a lead suit from the nuclear power plant he was fighting in. Superman 12's answer suggests that he actually owns a suit and plans with it in mind.[/bullshitting]

6. When Grayven attacked Wombworld, he mentioned that the Psions used to be the maltusians' pets:

But when Hinon said the same thing later, he seems confused:

What's up with that?

...

[bullshitting]Grayven didn't know that they were household pets. He thought that they were a failed uplift.[/bullshitting]

X18999 said:
The Vega system (how it is in this system) would make a really good book... and I honestly wish they had interactions with Earth.

If there was an easy way to get from Vega to Earth, we'd be a Citadel slave-world. Though if anyone from DC wants me to I would be delighted to write a series bible for a show or the background for a game on that basis.

Ngamer11 said:
Mr Zoat, I just realized you're spelling Starfire's species correctly now. Will you be editing the previous Tamaranians into Tamaraneans?

No, but I might change Tamaraneans to Tamaranians.

Coda said:
Why corrected? "Storey" is a perfectly legitimate British spelling of the word describing the height of a building.

Thank you, corrected.

Chaoswind said:
Anyone remembers if Zoat answered what happened to Dana Dearden after the time trapper roller-coaster?

No, but I'll tell you for free that she ended up in the future and is pretending that her coin-granted powers are innate in order to stay with the Legion of Superheroes.

Siskulous said:
OMFG. At the rate he's going, Paul's going to create a war between a bunch of rival Orange Lanterns in Vega. Seriously, what are the odds that half these people he's handed that book to sign on with his corps if they manage to call a ring? Vega's gonna end up less stable than it is now for him handing that thing out.

At this point 'calling a ring' is basically impossible. There are no free-floating rings in the vicinity of Vega. The SI would have to throw one of his up in the air for anything to happen. Anyone trying that in Vega would have to have better power and discipline than the SI, and that's close to impossible.

Chaoswind · Aug 27, 2019

I don't know, the last Branx recruit had her heart in the right place and the proper mindset to be a good orange lantern, probably a lot better than the blind women from that backwards world that had a religion that blinded all the women in one of their continents.

The leader of the Blood Flecks clan and the Karnan Admiral are clearly NOT the best people, so I doubt anything is going to come from them.

Vega is fucked up enough than their sector having as many orange lanterns as sector 2814 has green ones would be justified and the lanterns on Vega would be close enough to quickly jump towards earth if a Reach invasion fleet actually shows up.

Mquz · Aug 27, 2019

Calling a ring might be impossible - unless you call it from across the galaxy - the Orange Lantern corps probably has a few on hand. There's also the possibility, like he said, of getting in contact with him personally somehow.

PDV · Aug 27, 2019

Coda said:
That's not universally true. That's a description of fiat currency, with seignorage.

However, currency that's actually backed by precious goods aren't just TREATED as valid IOUs -- they ARE valid IOUs. You can (at least in theory) take that IOU to a suitable bank and exchange it for the actual good it represents. Therefore, the currency can be traded as if it were the equivalent object it represents.

Not true. Even currencies ostensibly backed by precious metals (or whatever else) are mainly backed by public confidence in their validity as IOUs. Gold-backed currency makes gold a symbol of value.

Coda said:
In a barter system, there aren't necessarily established numeric values for anything. (This is, of course, why barter systems stopped being used -- they don't scale to an industrialized society.)

Incorrect, actually. Current scholarship indioates barter economies have probably never existed except in places which already had money and gave it up for some reason. Currency predates trade; coinage was just a means to make it easier to transport than 'cows' or whatever the prevailing currency was prior to coinage.

Coda · Aug 27, 2019

PDV said:
Not true. Even currencies ostensibly backed by precious metals (or whatever else) are mainly backed by public confidence in their validity as IOUs. Gold-backed currency makes gold a symbol of value.

Yes, of course. But the reason it works is because if the confidence wasn't there, people would cash the currency out for the actual precious metals. Failing to be able to do so is, of course, the cause of who knows how many economic failures over the course of history. The more detached the currency is from the underlying backing, the less relevance it has to the point I was trying to make: currency that CAN'T be confidently exchanged for an actual rare good IS (effectively, if not officially) fiat currency.

I argue that gold-backed currency doesn't make gold a symbol of value -- rather, it makes gold more valuable. It doesn't represent value; it has value, which is in contrast to the currency backed by it. If I were to mine and refine a pound of gold, that gold would have value. If I were to print a bank note, it would not. (And I would have just committed a crime.)

Importantly, that gold still intrinsically has value even if the local currency ISN'T backed by gold. It might have LESS value, but if someone wants my gold, and I want what they have, then we can make an exchange and both walk away satisfied. And as long as that gold is useful for something (even if that "something" is nothing but ostentatious shows of wealth) then it will always have value, and its scarcity is an integral part of that.

PDV said:
Incorrect, actually. Current scholarship indioates barter economies have probably never existed except in places which already had money and gave it up for some reason. Currency predates trade; coinage was just a means to make it easier to transport than 'cows' or whatever the prevailing currency was prior to coinage.

[citation needed]

This makes no sense whatsoever. I have no reason to believe that humans didn't have a concept of trading things of equal perceived value before the invention of currency. And how else are you supposed to trade with other cultures that don't share a currency with you?

It's possible we may have different definitions of "barter" here. I'm not referring to the use of trade goods as a form of currency. I specifically said that there wasn't necessarily a numerical value; "two cows" isn't worth the same thing to different people and it would be silly to suggest that people would have ever converted values to compare in terms of how many literal cows something was worth in an abstract context. (Obviously, if you're trying to trade for a cow, then you have an idea of how much a cow is worth to you.) I'm willing to acknowledge I should have used a different word if that's not what barter means in an academic context. The rest of my argument is still sound.

EDIT: Oh, we ARE using different senses of the word. You specifically talked about a barter economy. I'm talking about the act of barter itself, in the absence of an overarching economy based on it.

Norgarth · Aug 28, 2019

X18999 said:
The Vega system (how it is in this system) would make a really good book... and I honestly wish they had interactions with Earth.

well, there's a reason OL is creating a RPG based on the Vega system, and expects it to do well.

Buggy123 said:
You cannot trade with a rock, after all.

That depends on the rock in question.

Massgamer · Aug 28, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Emana is burning.

When I first read this I was expecting way worse, still bad but at least atmosphere isn't actively burning.

Also Paul keeps sending out OL guides and finally finds someone with strong positive desires.

Mr Zoat · Aug 28, 2019

9th February
01:27 GMT

Amalak waves politely as I appear in front of his desk.

"The Queen told me that you might be heading this way. Do you have a book for me as well, or is that a… 'Special friends only' thing?"

"While it's true that you're not my type, I don't see any reason not to give you a copy." I fabricate another copy and deposit it in front of him. "Please bear in mind that this does not make you a member of the Orange Lantern Corps or entitle you to a ring at any point."

"No, but it will be fascinating to learn more about you." He picks it up and flicks through it. There's a very small smile when he spots that I've written it in his native language rather than Interlac. "While I can hardly complain about the way you've dealt with me, you'll understand that your sheer power makes me a little nervous."

"Quite understandable."

"You left the Queen a little while ago." He puts the book down and regards me curiously. "Busy day?"

"The Branx are in the middle of a corporate war. I did some firefighting. Then I checked up on Karna again."

"How's their war going?"

"You knew about that?"

"I could hardly miss the karnan war fleet passing through my… Patrol zone. I tend to keep an eye on the Imperials, just in case Oswin decides that he's no longer prepared to accept the current state of affairs."

"The balance of power is sufficiently in their favour that the gordanians are suing for peace."

"And the karnans are lis-?" He nods. "Ah."

"Friends don't let friends meaninglessly slaughter one another. Speaking of which, things alright between you, the Queen and Jarko?"

"Much to my surprise, I haven't had any trouble with the Queen at all. Jarko… Some of his people make nuisances of themselves sometimes, and he feels the need to publically rail against my retaliation… Nothing of substance."

"And how is your business going?"

"Quite well. The… Minor pirate groups are already starting to drift away from Vega, but the threat from the Crown Imperium more than makes up for it as far as my clients are concerned."

"How big a threat are they?"

He waves his right hand in a gesture of uncertainty. "It's a matter of scale. Pirates might steal a few things or kidnap a few people. Oswin wants to conquer these worlds outright and incorporate them into the Crown Imperium as his personal duchy. Which would mean waves of Imperial colonists, marginalised locals-. Most importantly from my point of view, the government officials who are paying me would be thrown out and the military officials I'm working with would be shot. We're all building up, and without raids to fight off I don't have to worry about actually taking casualties."

"Is a fight with Oswin inevitable?"

"Hm." He looks pensive for a moment. "I would be astonished if it doesn't come to blows eventually, but if Vega stops being a safe harbour… He would have trouble getting backing from the court. Empress Clryssa isn't stupid, she'll be keeping watch-."

The door to the office slides open and Miss Gozzi walks in. Her expression doesn't shift out of neutral as she sees me.

"Keeping watch to make sure that he doesn't start anything. You remember my adjutant, Vran Gozzi?"

I nod politely to her. "A pleasure to see you again."

She nods back, but doesn't-.

"Oh, ask him."

"Orange Lantern. Were you able to recover Vril Dox Two?"

"Yes, and the Dominion won't be submitting tenders for prison contracts anytime soon."

"And you have given him a power ring?"

"I made him Clarissi, so, yes."

"A clone of Vril Dox is in command of a Lantern Corps."

"We're keeping an eye on him, but he really is very good at what he does."

"Yes, I am aware of that. All coluans would be aware of that, if the majority of the population were capable of being aware of anything."

"Would you like to meet him? Would that put your mind at rest?"

Her eyes narrow very slightly. "Coluan minds are never at rest."

"You do have holiday time which you've.. never used." Miss Gozzi looks at Amalak, a very mild expression of surprise and betrayal on her face. "It's unwise for an organisation to be completely dependent on any one person, and I'm sure that we could survive without you for a day."

She turns her head to face me. "Orange Lantern, on your homeworld, is there a great historical tyrant whose name evokes fear and hatred even to the current day?"

"Yes, Adolf Hitler, though since I can work out where you're going with this I met his clone last year and he's a rather nice chap. But I was just trying to put your mind at rest about the whole 'Super Hitler' thing; if you don't want to meet him then.. don't meet him."

She turns her face back towards Amalak. "Commodore, what were you discussing before I arrived?"

"Orange Lantern shares our concern that Admiral Oswin might do something prejudicial to our interests."

"It is near-inevitable. The more important question is whether he will have the support of the Crown when he does."

"Would it be productive for me to have a word with anyone?"

"Do you know anyone in the Kranaltine court?"

"I had a minute long conversation with Chief Minister Rikane last time I was in the Crown Imperium. Does that count?"

Miss Gozzi nods. "Yes. Chief Minister Rikane is the highest non-royal official in the government of the Crown Imperium. He would be an excellent person to open communication with."

"Have you-? "

Amalak nods. "We get a member of Admiral Oswin's staff."

"Okay, I can schedule that in. I have a request to pass along from the Queen."

Amalak frowns mildly. "Alright. What is it?"

"It seems that she's an expert on bio-augmentation. She's willing to offer you her services."

"That's…. Interesting." He briefly makes eye contact with Miss Gozzi. "It's not really our focus but I can see the use for that sort of thing. And what does she want in return?"

"Trade access to the worlds in your defence pact."

"It's not a defence pact as such." He smiles. "Technically, they're my employers. But… I have no principled objection. I assume that she wants an escort thrown in?"

"That depends on how safe it is."

"Hm. A crew who would actually defend a Spider Guild ship… Yes, we can just about manage that. I'll contact her directly to sort out the details."

"Thank you." I raise my right hand to my forehead. "Commodore. Miss Gozzi."

DeathlessProficiency · Aug 28, 2019

Coluans are fucking niiiiiice

Chojin Patriarch · Aug 28, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Amalak waves politely as I appear in front of his desk.

"Yes, you were expected..."

"The Queen told me that you might be heading this way. Do you have a book for me as well, or is that a… 'Special friends only' thing?"

"Please, don't mention spiracles..."

"You left the Queen a little while ago." He puts the book down and regards me curiously. "Busy day?"

"You have no idea..."

"I could hardly miss the karnan war fleet passing through my… Patrol zone. I tend to keep an eye on the Imperials, just in case Oswin decides that he's no longer prepared to accept the current state of affairs."

Ambition and military power are rarely good combinations...

"Much to my surprise, I haven't had any trouble with the Queen at all. Jarko… Some of his people make nuisances of themselves sometimes, and he feels the need to publically rail against my retaliation… Nothing of substance."

Just keeping up appearances. If he didn't, his followers would think him weak.

He waves his right hand in a gesture of uncertainty. "It's a matter of scale. Pirates might steal a few things or kidnap a few people. Oswin wants to conquer these worlds outright and incorporate them into the Crown Imperium as his personal duchy. Which would mean waves of Imperial colonists, marginalised locals-. Most importantly from my point of view, the government officials who are paying me would be thrown out and the military officials I'm working with would be shot. We're all building up, and without raids to fight off I don't have to worry about actually taking casualties."

Nice to see 'friends' getting ahead in business.

"Orange Lantern. Were you able to recover Vril Dox Two?"

Hmm... Romantic interest, or political?

"A clone of Vril Dox is in command of a Lantern Corps."

Political, then.

Her eyes narrow very slightly. "Coluan minds are never at rest."

"That's not a 'No'."

"You do have holiday time which you've.. never used." Miss Gozzi looks at Amalak, a very mild expression of surprise and betrayal on her face. "It's unwise for an organisation to be completely dependent on any one person, and I'm sure that we could survive without you for a day."

Cue her returning the next day and the entire planet is on fire.

"Yes, Adolf Hitler, though since I can work out where you're going with this I met his clone last year and he's a rather nice chap. But I was just trying to put your mind at rest about the whole 'Super Hitler' thing; if you don't want to meet him then.. don't meet him."

Ha! Legend of Koizumi reference for the win!

"It is near-inevitable. The more important question is whether he will have the support of the Crown when he does."

Would be amusing to see the Crown Imperium mounting a campaign against one of their own nobles to reign him in.

Amalak nods. "We get a member of Admiral Oswin's staff."

As a spy or a contact?

"Hm. A crew who would actually defend a Spider Guild ship… Yes, we can just about manage that. I'll contact her directly to sort out the details."

That'd be some crew, I bet.

Heh, flying visits are always fun.

thebishop8 · Aug 28, 2019

I didn't catch any mistakes. I'll have to settle for correcting the older ones.

Oh, and these are all from Omakes. I'm not sure how you feel about correcting chapters you didn't write, so these are all from omakes you've written or rewritten.

Mr Zoat said:
I'm a joke right now. a goddam living satire!

Capitalization needed.

Mr Zoat said:
Until then your best bet is to keep your head down and wait for people forget about it."

*to forget about it

Mr Zoat said:
clench his hadn into a fist.

*hand

Mr Zoat said:
Or how a nazi saved hundreds of live in Nanking.

*lives

Mr Zoat said:
performed when we fought that Star Hunters last week.

"the Star Hunters"
or
"those Star Hunters"

Mr Zoat said:
while looking at the local scenery-*3*
*5*Ooh, a flower!*5*

Linebreak needed. Or whatever it's called. An empty line is needed between these.

Disclaimer: It may be of some surprise that I am not a professional editor.

Mr Zoat said:
Six different streams of though run together

*thought

Mr Zoat said:
Never really got a look in, there. "

A space is between the period and end quote.

Mr Zoat said:
[bullshitting]

Pffffft.

Alright then, I've got another one for you.

[ProfessorFrinkImpression]

In Episode Twenty-Four part Nineteen, when Nylorr Truggs has Orange Lantern Two Eight One Four as a hostage, Mister Truggs claims that he did not kill Missus Gordon-Hewitt.

Mr Zoat said:
Didn't kill the old woman myself. I think it was… Well, one of these guys.

However, in Episode Forty-One part Seventeen, one of Mister Dorrance's Venom Buster henchman, Fabiao, claims that Mister Truggs is indeed the one who killed her. But I find it unlikely that Nylorr Truggs would lie during his Grand Monologue.

Mr Zoat said:
"You're looking at Felony Murder for Gotham-."

"The old lady?" I nod. "That was Truggs, man. We were going to hold her hostage, maybe ransom her. Then he just pulled out some weird looking pistol and shot her."

Please to explain it.

[/ProfessorFrinkImpression]

So, I'm guessing the answer to this one is that Fabiao was just saying whatever he thought he needed to say to be in less trouble?

Vaermina · Aug 28, 2019

DeathlessProficiency said:
Coluans are fucking niiiiiice

Not yet, but it looks like Paul is trying to get the two he knows to start.

Ngamer11 · Aug 28, 2019

With the reveal of the genomorph town/alien sanctuary in YJ, I wonder if the genomorphs in WTR have something similar, minus the illusions that make them look like humans. I could see Paul supporting that.

Mr Zoat · Aug 28, 2019

Ngamer11 said:
With the reveal of the genomorph town/alien sanctuary in YJ, I wonder if the genomorphs in WTR have something similar, minus the illusions that make them look like humans. I could see Paul supporting that.

I haven't seen that episode yet, though it is nice to know that thye're alright.

Due to the ways in which the SI and the Renegade have handled the genomorphs, they don't need to practice that sort of subterfuge.

Chaoswind · Aug 28, 2019

Its a shame that the plot potential of Dana Dearden aka OBSESSION and the random amount of orange rings Paul called didn't go anywhere. I mean Dana getting obsessed with Paul and getting an orange power ring (in addition to her coins) while Paul was running amok in Vega, is a far more interesting plot development than a random Dragon getting a ring and becoming a villain of the hour before being unceremoniously killed.

Dana the orange lantern could have been a fairly interesting issue for Paul to deal with even more so if he initially promotes her to second orange lantern of sector 2418 for her feat and single minded "self control" (she would be entirely focused on proving her worth to Paul and wanting his attention, and Paul desire to not be like Lantern Jordan and his fuckup with Carol Feris would have played a huge part in how he would deal with Dana).

Queshire · Aug 28, 2019

To be fair, they could still want to.

lefthandturnsignal · Aug 28, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
"Yes, I am aware of that. All coluans would be aware of that, if the majority of the population were capable of being aware of anything."

Wasn't the green honor guard task force headed to Coluan immediately after dealing with the dominator prison? How did that turn out?

Mr Zoat · Aug 28, 2019

lefthandturnsignal said:
Wasn't the green honor guard task force headed to Coluan immediately after dealing with the dominator prison? How did that turn out?

Stalled. Colu is now formally isolated but the Machine Tyrants could at the very least hold off the Task Force and have a planet full of hostages.

Mr Zoat · Aug 28, 2019

thebishop8 said:
I didn't catch any mistakes. I'll have to settle for correcting the older ones.

Oh, and these are all from Omakes. I'm not sure how you feel about correcting chapters you didn't write, so these are all from omakes you've written or rewritten.

Capitalization needed.

*to forget about it

*hand

*lives

"the Star Hunters"
or
"those Star Hunters"

Linebreak needed. Or whatever it's called. An empty line is needed between these.

Disclaimer: It may be of some surprise that I am not a professional editor.

*thought

A space is between the period and end quote.

Thank you, corrected.

Pffffft.

Alright then, I've got another one for you.

[ProfessorFrinkImpression]

In Episode Twenty-Four part Nineteen, when Nylorr Truggs has Orange Lantern Two Eight One Four as a hostage, Mister Truggs claims that he did not kill Missus Gordon-Hewitt

However, in Episode Forty-One part Seventeen, one of Mister Dorrance's Venom Buster henchman, Fabiao, claims that Mister Truggs is indeed the one who killed her. But I find it unlikely that Nylorr Truggs would lie during his Grand Monologue.

Please to explain it.

[/ProfessorFrinkImpression]

So, I'm guessing the answer to this one is that Fabiao was just saying whatever he thought he needed to say to be in less trouble?

Let's... Go... With... Yes.

Jirachi · Aug 28, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
"Those weapons of yours are rather effective. Are they of Psion manufacture, or did you bring them from Maltus?"

"No, those were designed on Earth."

"Fascinating." She almost.. purrs it.

"But I'm afraid that they're not for sale. And I'll be taking them back from the Citadelians once we're finished here."

"Oh, is that really necessary? I'll admit to hating the Citadel but they.. die rather well. I could think of dozens of uses I could put them to."

"No shortcuts, Komand'r. If you want nifty technology, get Tamaran reindustrialised faster and develop it yourselves. If you want my aid, I have limits. If you can manage it on your own, good luck to you."

I'm a bit confused about the relationship between him saying this and him being totally fine with Adam Blake personally doing a lot of uplift (likely with) Earth schizotech on Tamaran.
I wonder if there is going to be a 'book of Maltus' set-up to help with the problems he's been getting with technology that the ring can't analyze on it's own, or to help serve the other functions that the Book of Oa serves for the GL corps.

Mr Zoat · Aug 28, 2019

Jirachi said:
I'm a bit confused about the relationship between him saying this and him being totally fine with Adam Blake personally doing a lot of uplift (likely with) Earth schizotech on Tamaran.

Adam Blake left Earth in the seventies. No internet, and he was never part of a superhero team that might have gotten access to that sort of material. He hasn't seen a lot of the stuff that the SI has. He does know alien technology, but it's not anything that would be radically out of place on Tamaran.

And negotiating for help from a man with joint American-Tamarus citizenship is fine. Diplomacy is a perfectly acceptable route to victory.

Mr Zoat · Aug 29, 2019

9th February
01:34 GMT

The rehabilitation centre on Rilsomtine has very visibly been upgraded. More staff and better social facilities, and I think that the rehabilitatee housing has been upgraded as well. Mylissa frowns at me as I use their link to the Imperium's communications network in an attempt to contact the Chief Minister.

"Yes, he came through on his offer of funding, but that doesn't mean that we're in regular contact."

"Do you know who Green Lantern Green Man usually gets when he calls the palace?"

"No, I don't."

"I suspect that it's someone more important than a Third Undersecretary." I glance her way. "How's Felicity been getting on?"

"As…" Mylissa shakes her head. "Well.. as could be expected. She's very social, likes to make people happy, and has.. almost no life-goals beyond making the people around her happy."

"Has she asked after me?"

"She did after you left, but she accepted it when we said that we didn't have any way to contact you. I've…" She looks away nervously.

"Yes?"

"The.. karnan fleet is supposed to have left-."

"Karna has been largely reconquered. The only ongoing conflict now is what form the gordanian surrender will take."

"I.. don't think that you're supposed to have told me that."

"Neither Supreme Commander Gaharrugh or the Imperial Navy Attaché made any request that I not share the information. And I'm not governed by Crown Imperium law anyway."

"I am."

"Then you better not tell anyone. Not that I think it will matter. No one is coming to help the gordanians. Certainly, no one with spies here."

"What about Amalak?"

"Couldn't care less. Same with Jarko and the Spiders. The Citadel Alliance was the Citadel and its hangers on. Everyone who wants to survive the Citadel's fall is reforming, and Amalak was always more of an opportunist than an ally."

"That-. That's.. not-." She glances at the nearest information terminal.

"No, well, you do live in the Crown Imperium, which has a vested interest in lumping all of its enemies together whether or not they're actually part of the same group or not. Please tell me that Admiral Oswin doesn't own the local news broadcaster?"

"I don't think so?"

"Alright, simple version." I generate a map of Vega and the territories bordering on the Crown Imperium as they were prior to my arrival. "Citadel and Friends controlled here." I colour Vega, with the major planets marked. "I freed Tamaran and blew up the Citadel." The Citadel marker vanishes and the coloured area evaporates. "No party was strong enough to take the Citadel's place, so while the Citadel's former allies cooperated between themselves they were only going to get weaker."

"While that was going on, the alliance I brokered between the pirate groups and the Spider Guild was bedding in. Now, the pirates weren't allied to the Citadel, Vega was just a convenient place for them to do business." I mark the Control Nest, Asryx and the region where Amalak operates. "Other pirate groups operated in the area or flew through it, but none of them really had territory there. The Spider Guild arriving caused all of the other groups to gang up on them, and they lost their entire navy before surrendering."

"The Citadel and its navy took no part in that war, because they knew that if they did they'd have a Green Lantern taskforce coming down on them. The branx took no part in it because their interests weren't directly threatened. Some gordanian clans were involved, but not the ones which were closely allied to the Citadel, because the ones which were closely allied to the Citadel had no motive to risk themselves. Since the Spider Guild's defeat and the Citadel's destruction Jarko has become less piratical because his losses in the war meant that he couldn't risk it and Amalak has expanded his legitimate private security work because suddenly the area has little special appeal to pirates and it serves his interests better to be seen as legitimate. With the Citadel and -more importantly- Larfleeze gone there's a good chance that Green Lanterns will regain access to Vega, and in any case visiting pirate groups aren't guaranteed the same old safe harbour."

"With me so far?"

"A reasonable summary." Chief Minister Rikane's face appears on the communication system. "Though Her Imperial Majesty's government would appreciate it if we were able to make the announcement of the karnan victory without it being spoilered."

"Chief Minister-." Mylissa bows in his direction.

"Miss Raul. Would you please leave the Orange Lantern and I alone?"

She straightens slightly. "Of course." She rebows and then backs out of the room, the door closing behind her.

"She was right, you know. Data management laws in the Crown Imperium are most likely harsher than what you're used to."

"Do they apply to foreign diplomats?"

"Not allied ones. Otherwise, some do."

"Am I an allied diplomat?"

He smiles pleasantly. "I certainly hope so."

"Do you have a problem with me negotiating a settlement on Karna?"

"No, but I would rather have had a little more notice. The original plan was for the karnans to be supported by the Imperial Navy and so achieve a crushing victory. We were.. still hopeful that they might win an outright victory, but with a little time to prepare we can put a spin on it. I suppose that the civilian casualties would have been very great if they'd fought it out?"

"Yes, very."

"Then there we are." He sits back slightly. "Ultimately, it isn't critical to the security of the Crown Imperium whether Vega becomes civilised purely because of our efforts or only partly. Our primary foreign policy objective is to stabilise our borders, not conquer Vega."

"And your secondary objectives?"

"Well…" He fans out his hands. "There are so many. An end to piracy and slavery, naturally. Partially to protect our own citizens and partially through moral concerns. I regard the Imperium as an architect of civilisation. That is the moral justification for our actions."

"So you wouldn't want to annex a civilised region?"

"That… Depends what you mean by 'annex'. Certainly, we have had civilised worlds petition to join the Imperium before and will most likely do so again. But forcing ourselves on them, no, of course not."

"So how do you explain Asryx?"

"That was before my time. Asryx was… Ideally, supposed to give the condemned and transported a chance to rehabilitate themselves through labour. They-." He looks decidedly awkward. "They and their descendants were supposed to become full citizens once their world was developed enough to admit to the Crown Imperium. But… The Court became… Somewhat divided…"

"The Court had an attack of fascism."

"Something like that. I'm not proud of it, but… A man in my position must sometimes be realistic about what can be achieved. You will note that I haven't pushed to invade Asryx, despite having good evidence that its new ruler supports the very barbarian forces I have dedicated myself to expunging."

"If they re-entered the Crown Imperium voluntarily, would you grant Jarko the title of Marquis?"

"Hehahahaoh my. Heh." He realises that I'm not laughing. "My word, are you serious?"

"I brought Amalak, Jarko and the Queen together, because I also regard myself as an architect of civilisation. And sometimes being an architect means that you must convince foundations to remain erect in the middle of a swamp before you can build anything truly beautiful. Amalak is worried that Admiral Oswin might do something self-interested and plunge the area into war. I'm here to find out what assurances both sides want and are prepared to offer in return."

"I see. I think.. perhaps that we should meet in person."

Citizen · Aug 29, 2019

Sometimes you're a genocide and kingmaker, sometimes you are a spider fondler and diplomat. Vega seems to bring out something special in OL doesn't it?

zerofarad · Aug 29, 2019

Various possible typos marked in orange:

Mr Zoat said:
Other pirates groups

Mr Zoat said:
The branx took no part in it because their interest weren't directly threatened. Some gordanian clans were involved, but no the ones which were closely allied to the Citadel

Mr Zoat said:
I regards the Imperium as an architect of civilisation.

It's also a little odd to view an organization as an architect, but as far as I can tell that's just the metaphor he's going for.

thebishop8 · Aug 29, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
The branx took no part in it because their interest weren't directly threatened.

Should that be interests?

Mr Zoat said:
but no the ones which were closely allied to the Citadel

*not the ones

Mr Zoat said:
"Do you have a problem with me negotiating a settlement on karna?"

Karna needs to be capitalized.

Mr Zoat said:
She rebows and then backs out of the room, the door closing behind her.

If she backs out of the room, then doesn't the door technically close in front of her?

Chojin Patriarch · Aug 29, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
The rehabilitation centre on Rilsomtine has very visibly been upgraded. More staff and better social facilities, and I think that the rehabilitatee housing has been upgraded as well. Mylissa frowns at me as I use their link to the Imperium's communications network in an attempt to contact the Chief Minister.

Ah, the joy of using low-relationsjhip-value assets.

"I suspect that it's someone more important than a Third Undersecretary." I glance her way. "How's Felicity been getting on?"

Nice of him to ask. Probably doesn't want her going off on another half-cocked assassination attempt.

"Karna has been largely reconquered. The only ongoing conflict now is what form the gordanian surrender will take."

And how many of them are left, I expect.

"Then you better not tell anyone. Not that I think it will matter. No one is coming to help the gordanians. Certainly, no one with spies here."

They haven't exactly made any friends in the region... And I doubt that will continue.

"That-. That's.. not-." She glances at the nearest information terminal.

Ah, information control. Best way to convince people of your truth and righteousness....

...Vega was just a convenient place for the to do business."

...Vega was just a convenient place for them to do business."

"A reasonable summary." Chief Minister Rikane's face appears on the communication system. "Though Her Imperial Majesty's government would appreciate it if we were able to make the announcement of the karnan victory without it being spoilered."

"Please try not to steal any more of our thunder..."

"She was right, you know. Data management laws in the Crown Imperium are mostly likely harsher than what you're used to."

Do you think OL cares?

He smiles pleasantly. "I certainly hope so."

You don't want to be on his bad side, certainly.

"Then there we are." He sits back slightly. "Ultimately, it isn't critical to the security of the Crown Imperium whether Vega becomes civilised purely because of our efforts or only partly. Our primary foreign policy objective is to stabilise our borders, not conquer Vega."

And having a huge bodycount of karnan civilians would look bad.

I regards the Imperium as an architect of civilisation.

I regard the Imperium as an architect of civilisation.

That is the moral justification for our actions."

That line of thought rarely tends to end well...

"That was before my time. Asryx was… Ideally, supposed to give the condemned and transported a chance to rehabilitate themselves through labour. They-." He looks decidedly awkward. "They and their descendants were supposed to become full citizens once their world was developed enough to admit to the Crown Imperium. But… The Court became… Somewhat divided…"

Indeed...

"Hehahahaoh my. Heh." He realises that I'm not laughing. "My word, are you serious?"

Deadly serious, it seems.

"I brought Amalak, Jarko and the Queen together, because I also regard myself as an architect of civilisation. And sometimes being an architect means that you must convince foundations to remain erect in the middle of a swamp before you can build anything truly beautiful. Amalak is worried that Admiral Oswin might do something self-interested and plunge the area into war. I'm here to find out what assurances both sides want and are prepared to offer in return."

That is a nice turn of phrase, OL.

Well, the grand tour continues. OL's racking up the Vega frequent-flyer lightyears, isn't he?

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Revelation That Uncertainty Is Itself An Answer

Versed in the lewd.

Lord of nonsense

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Lord of nonsense

Versed in the lewd.

Revelation That Uncertainty Is Itself An Answer

Versed in the lewd.

Making the rounds.

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Dedicated ragequitter

Know what you're doing yet?

Veteran Lurker

Umm, ackchyually...

Well worn.

Experienced.

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Lord of nonsense

Not too sore, are you?

Making the rounds.

Dedicated ragequitter

Dedicated ragequitter

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Dedicated ragequitter

Dedicated ragequitter

Well worn.

Know what you're doing yet?

Umm, ackchyually...

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