With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Mr Zoat · Jul 12, 2022

I have never played any Fromsoft game and am unlikely to ever do so.

Duke Long · Jul 12, 2022

AR760 said:
Bad take imo.

Radahn was not only weakened to an incredible extent by the Scarlet Rot, an eldritch disease backed by the Outer God of Rot itself, delivered by Malena who was and is an Emperyan that had eaten away at his sanity over the course of a shit ton of time, but he was simultaneously throughout the battle still managing to hold back the very stars themselves.

The Tarnished did not beat Radahn. They beat a broken, withered out husk who still had enough raw power to halt the very flow of fate and maintain his grasp over the stars through his still instinctively held mastery of sorcery. Who still kicked the shit out of most players and had a mass summoning mechanic behind it to even out the fight before he was nerfed.

And if taken anywhere near seriously, like all Fromsoft games, if you actually think about and mechanically measure the feats of the characters within, they are even more impressive. The Starscourge was considered the mightiest of the Demigods for a reason, and that includes even when factoring in the Emperyans a la Malena and Miquella.

I think you're underestimating the Tarnished's ability to defeat full-power Radahn. He was the strongest demigod, but he wasn't enormously stronger than Malenia, and the Tarnished beats her fair and square.

For a minute I thought we were going to see the first Paul to end up in a totally mundane universe, but then there were aliens.

I almost always greatly enjoy these snippets of other Pauls, but I imagine that's in large part because they only show the most interesting parts.

AR760 · Jul 12, 2022

Duke Long said:
I think you're underestimating the Tarnished's ability to defeat full-power Radahn. He was the strongest demigod, but he wasn't enormously stronger than Malenia, and the Tarnished beats her fair and square.

For a minute I thought we were going to see the first Paul to end up in a totally mundane universe, but then there were aliens.

I almost always greatly enjoy these snippets of other Pauls, but I imagine that's in large part because they only show the most interesting parts.

If you look back at the cinematic and the fight, he actually was. Malenia only managed to survive by removing the Unalloyed Needle from her chest and embracing the powers of the Scarlet Rot.

It is a part of the abandoning her pride thing that was tied to the Millicent quest line, and how the Waterfowl Dance and the like was meant to symbolize her personal ability, and abandoning it to take on the power of the Scarlet Rot is something she only did twice. One in the Radahn fight, and the second with the Tarnished.

And remember, even Malenia was fighting you only after spending an immense amount of time asleep and recovering from her battle with Radahn. To the extent she missed Miquella's kidnapping and, you know, forced marriage plans of Mogh.

That's the thing about Fromsoft games. It is a very rare thing when you fight a boss who actually does have their full power or is the ur example of when they were the strongest.

But in retrospect, this is pretty off topic. My apologies to the OP/Author.

DAT_NOOB · Jul 12, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Earth.

But not *this* earth?

WereDragon · Jul 12, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Universe 191
22nd January 1945
08:43 GMT

Sadly not the most cursed timeline of alt-history I have seen, but still pretty cursed.

Guessing Paul is desperate to get this all set up before his Ring runs dry. If there are no mystical or super elements in the setting he isn't getting a recharge.

Rafin · Jul 12, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Alternate version. Note the lack of coloured speech marks.

How does this alternate handle ring charge? And since when has he been around?

crazygrox · Jul 12, 2022

If this is a Turtledove crossover, I have to wonder whether there are more of his settings to this than the two implied by the first snip.
Possible that his magic WW1 setting is on a different nearby alien world?

Mr Zoat · Jul 12, 2022

crazygrox said:
If this is a Turtledove crossover, I have to wonder whether there are more of his settings to this than the two implied by the first snip.

Probably not, as those are the two I've read.

Windona · Jul 12, 2022

Now I want to read Southern Victory, though I'm generally meh on 'What if CSA or the Nazis won?'

Certainly an interesting view. I wonder if Paul will cause the CSA to undergo de-Confederatization (or whatever the equivalent term for denazification is). And Britain certainly is getting a boost, but I wonder if it's just their allies that suck.

Mr Zoat · Jul 12, 2022

Windona said:
Now I want to read Southern Victory, though I'm generally meh on 'What if CSA or the Nazis won?'

Certainly an interesting view. I wonder if Paul will cause the CSA to undergo de-Confederatization (or whatever the equivalent term for denazification is). And Britain certainly is getting a boost, but I wonder if it's just their allies that suck.

British influence is canonically why the Confederates don't have slavery before the first War. At the moment, the CSA has officially stopped existing and has been annexed by the United States. That's going about as well as you might expect.

Ganurath · Jul 12, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Who are you, who do not know your history?

There's a joke to be made here involving the Irish. Did England lose the entire island in this timeline?

Mr Zoat · Jul 12, 2022

Ganurath said:
There's a joke to be made here involving the Irish. Did England lose the entire island in this timeline?

They lost that in their version of World War 1. There have been Protestant uprisings in the north ever since.

Ardy · Jul 12, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
At the moment, the CSA has officially stopped existing and has been annexed by the United States. That's going about as well as you might expect.

I mean that'd be going pretty good if our president doesn't get assassinated and replaced by a traitorous VP undoing all his work.

Bud-E · Jul 12, 2022

Ganurath said:
There's a joke to be made here involving the Irish.

I'm American the joke is our educational system.

Mr Zoat · Jul 12, 2022

Bud-E said:
I'm American the joke is our educational system.

You mean 'the joke is our education system up to twenty years ago, after which I couldn't possibly comment'.

Ardy said:
I mean that'd be going pretty good if our president doesn't get assassinated and replaced by a traitorous VP undoing all his work.

Not really. Unlike real life, the CSA existed for several generations. Unlike real life, there weren't southerners fighting on both sides when the CSA collapsed.

Nugar · Jul 13, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Universe 191
22nd January 1945
08:43 GMT

Zoat, you've made a mistake. I want to read this offshoot more than paragon or renegade.

Ciber · Jul 13, 2022

Rafin said:
How does this alternate handle ring charge? And since when has he been around?

Remember the orange ring can technically absorb any energy to recharge. Electricity is very inefficient, but he could hook into the power grid.

Mr Zoat · Jul 13, 2022

8th November 2012
19:21 GMT +3..?

I don't look around. "Doctor Balewa?"

"Yes?"

From the echo it doesn't sound like he did either.

"How fast does time pass in the Dream, relative to the material universe?"

"Usually, it passes at a slightly reduced rate. Though this particular situation has not occurred before, to my knowledge."

I cautiously shift my hands, carefully testing the strength of the Tower of Fate's exterior crenellations as I shuffle along.

"So we'll get back a little after we left?"

"Perhaps? Is it important?"

"Oh, just making conversation. I missed a global invasion last time something like this happened."

"What I wanna-" The Demon Constantine grunts as he reaches around a prominence. "-know, is how the hell Sandman did that. And why he didn't fuckin' do it earlier."

"I didn't want to give up my mask." Down the line, I hear Sanderson sigh. "Back in my day, superheroes all wore masks to protect their secret identities."

"Did it work when they were dead?"

"Yes." I look around to see Alan nodding. "Look at public records for any of the superheroes who were active back then. The only ones who got unmasked were the ones who chose to."

"And Albert Pratt, who was rumbled by the FBI."

"Okay, with a few exceptions, and maybe people didn't look as hard as they could. But the point still stands. Masks work."

"I'm a demon. It doesn't matter what you stick on your face, I can tell who you are by how your soul tastes. What was that glitter stuff?"

"Ah, well, I told you that Morpheus gave me the power to have visions. What I didn't tell you was that he gave me that power by blowing his dream sand over me. My mask is a gas mask; some of the sand got caught in the filter, and in the folds of my coat."

"In your coat." I can hear The Demon's consternation. "Wouldn't have been much."

"No, ah, the coat was more of a desperation move. To be honest, I'm a little surprised the mask worked as well."

"Or maybe it didn't."

"I sure hope it did. I don't want to spend my last few minutes climbing around a magic tower."

"No, I mean, Morpheus might have decided to give you a hand. Us a hand."

"Why would he do that? I didn't think helping people was something he did."

"It's not, but he faithfully upholds bargains and repays obligations. He might have decided that since he wasn't sure what if anything he owed you and Sandman One he should err on the side of generosity. You could ask him if you see him again."

"Or maybe I shouldn't. He might get uncomfortable if I draw attention to it. And I'll pay him back if he ever asks."

I pull myself up onto the top of a stone grotesque and finally! A balcony! And a way inside. The glass door is clearly locked and probably warded, but we've finally arrived!

"Nearly there, gentlemen. Constantine, you're up."

"Remind me what I'm getting out of this?"

But he follows me anyway, if only for the lack of anywhere else to go.

"A slightly nicer cell, and an official recommendation that they don't throw you into a dream storm as a method of execution because we've now got a way to do that to demons."

"Satanus getting the heave ho?"

"If I've got anything to say about it."

I work my way closer to the balcony, which appears to be a large ritual space rather than a small viewing platform. We've had to crawl around the outside of the tower about seven times to get here as a result of the non-Euclidian geometry and I'm glad that it's nearly over. Just have to have The Demon defuse any traps and then we're home.

Or rather, then we're invading the home of a hostile wizard. But it's a hostile wizard who would have to work at erasing us from existence, rather than sitting back and letting it happen by default.

Okay, handhold, climb up a bit…

I look down at The Demon. "Got enough room?"

He considers for a moment. "If I say 'no', will you jump off?"

"No."

"Then it's fine." He carefully manoeuvres beneath me, edging towards the balcony railings before stopping about a metre away. "Yeah, protective spell. It's supposed to report to the Tower's spirit if anything unusual happens. Order magic. And he's added a little something, but I can bypass that."

"Are you certain?"

"I wasn't absorbing parts of John just for fun. There are only so many things he can do with the place that don't use Order magic, because it's so bound up in the place, and I know how we all think."

There's a weak smell of burning pine needles, and The Demon nods in satisfaction.

"Done. After you, mate."

"Do I look stupid?"

"No, no. Lots of people make giant cakes." He reaches out and takes a firm grip on the railing before clambering over. "I'm in as much danger as you are, here. I'm not taking risks with my safety."

Fair enough, I suppose. I traverse along the wall until I'm above the balcony and then drop lightly down with my kinetic belt. I glance inside the Tower through the window but fortunately it's empty. Looks like it was part of the same ritual space as the balcony, the whole thing making a round platform bisected by the glass.

I don't think I've ever been there before.

Ring, check spell eater.

Temperature normal.

Thank you.

"It's clear. Everyone on board."

Sanderson comes over next, using his partially transformed sand form to hold onto the wall and move easily. I metaphorically hold my breath because he's magical enough that he might set off the alarm just by being here. I make eye contact with The Demon, but he just shakes his head.

Alan comes next, with Dr. Balewa bringing up the rear. Not waiting for them, the Demon ambles over to the window.

"Used. Recently."

I shrug. "It's his tower. Can you get us-" The door opens. "-in?"

"No." He walks through with his hands in his pockets. "We're completely stuck."

Ardy · Jul 13, 2022

So that's where John put his sarcasm.

Handlewithcare · Jul 13, 2022

I like demon!John, I hope he can be reformed

Duke Long · Jul 13, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
It's suppose to report to the Tower's spirit

'supposed'

Mr Zoat said:
the whole things making a round platform bisected by the glass

'thing's', I think.

Joelseph14 · Jul 13, 2022

Ardy said:
So that's where John put his sarcasm.

Nah it developed naturally just due to the conceptual link of them having the same name

Mr Zoat · Jul 13, 2022

Duke Long said:
'supposed'
'thing's', I think.

Thank you, corrected.

Chojin Patriarch · Jul 13, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
8th November 2012
19:21 GMT +3..?

I don't look around. "Doctor Balewa?"

"Yes?"

From the echo it doesn't sound like he did either.

Given they're likely clinging to the outside of the tower, facing either an endless fall or a dunk in the dream storm if they fall off, that can be excused. Evidently they've been doing so a while, given the timestamp. Their fingers must be getting sore.

"How fast does time pass in the Dream, relative to the material universe?"

"Usually, it passes at a slightly reduced rate. Though this particular situation has not occurred before, to my knowledge."

Great. Once again, there's a small chance all hell has broken loose on Earth while they've been rattling around here...

I cautiously shift my hands, carefully testing the strength of the Tower of Fate's exterior crenellations as I shuffle along.

"So we'll get back a little after we left?"

Better than turning up before you left. That stuff always makes for a paperwork nightmare. Or you get the Ork Warlord who killed his own past self so he could have a second copy of his favourite gun.

"Perhaps? Is it important?"

"Oh, just making conversation. I missed a global invasion last time something like this happened."

To be fair, people mostly handled it okay, barring the casualties.

"What I wanna-" The Demon Constantine grunts as he reaches around a prominence. "-know, is how the hell Sandman did that. And why he didn't fuckin' do it earlier."

"I didn't want to give up my mask." Down the line, I hear Sanderson sigh. "Back in my day, superheroes all wore masks to protect their secret identities."

At least some of them had the sense to skip the tiny domino masks. One favourite is 'Ma' Hunkel's saucepan helmet..

"Did it work when they were dead?"

"Yes." I look around to see Alan nodding. "Look at public records for any of the superheroes who were active back then. The only ones who got unmasked were the ones who chose to."

Then again, Superman pulls it off with glasses, messy hair and bad posture.

"And Albert Pratt, who was rumbled by the FBI."

"Okay, with a few exceptions, and maybe people didn't look as hard as they could. But the point still stands. Masks work."

Probably because people played nice by pretending not to recognise them... And I'm reminded of that one screwy batman story where Alfred was the Joker...

"I'm a demon. It doesn't matter what you stick on your face, I can tell who you are by how your soul tastes. What was that glitter stuff?"

"Ah, well, I told you that Morpheus gave me the power to have visions. What I didn't tell you was that he gave me that power by blowing his dream sand over me. My mask is a gas mask; some of the sand got caught in the filter, and in the folds of my coat."

Lucky for you... Or maybe not. Morpheus has shown he can plan well ahead.

"In your coat." I can hear The Demon's consternation. "Wouldn't have been much."

"No, ah, the coat was more of a desperation move. To be honest, I'm a little surprised the mask worked as well."

Well, it is a superhero thing to survive a deathtrap by the skin of your teeth.

Or the shirt on your back...

"Or maybe it didn't."

"I sure hope it did. I don't want to spend my last few minutes climbing around a magic tower."

That would be kind of depressing. Show some spirit, kid, you'll get out of this fine.

"No, I mean, Morpheus might have decided to give you a hand. Us a hand."

"Why would he do that? I didn't think helping people was something he did."

Admittedly, a lot of the time, his help can make things worse before it gets better.

"It's not, but he faithfully upholds bargains and repays obligations. He might have decided that since he wasn't sure what if anything he owed you and Sandman One he should err on the side of generosity. You could ask him if you see him again."

"Or maybe I shouldn't. He might get uncomfortable if I draw attention to it. And I'll pay him back if he ever asks."

He won't ask. In general, his obligation to you is done. He might prevail upon you in future for something, but that'll be a separate deal...

I pull myself up onto the top of a stone grotesque and finally! A balcony! And a way inside. The glass door is clearly locked and probably warded, but we've finally arrived!

"Nearly there, gentlemen. Constantine, you're up."

What's a grotesque, you ask? In this context, probably something akin to a gargoyle, minus the downspout in the mouth...

"Remind me what I'm getting out of this?"

But he follows me anyway, if only for the lack of anywhere else to go.

Probably sick of kissing the bricks.

"A slightly nicer cell, and an official recommendation that they don't throw you into a dream storm as a method of execution because we've now got a way to do that to demons."

"Satanus getting the heave ho?"

"If I've got anything to say about it."

Gee, couldn't happen to a nastier fellow.

I work my way closer to the balcony, which appears to be a large ritual space rather than a small viewing platform. We've had to crawl around the outside of the tower about seven times to get here as a result of the non-Euclidian geometry and I'm glad that it's nearly over. Just have to have The Demon defuse any traps and then we're home.

Or rather, then we're invading the home of a hostile wizard. But it's a hostile wizard who would have to work at erasing us from existence, rather than sitting back and letting it happen by default.

And this is all still working on the assumption that there's something hinky about John Quinn, and the Demon's word that OG John is in there...

Okay, handhold, climb up a bit…

I look down at The Demon. "Got enough room?"

You could lend him a hand, you know. Sure, he might bite it out of frustration, but at least you offered.

He considers for a moment. "If I say 'no', will you jump off?"

"No."

Find, be that way, sour-puss.

"Then it's fine." He carefully manoeuvres beneath me, edging towards the balcony railings before stopping about a metre away. "Yeah, protective spell. It's suppose to report to the Tower's spirit if anything unusual happens. Order magic. And he's added a little something, but I can bypass that."

"Are you certain?"

I would be amused if it were as simple as a repusion spell.

The magical equivalent of a plate with a spring underneath that aims outwards.

"I wasn't absorbing parts of John just for fun. There are only so many things he can do with the place that don't use Order magic, because it's so bound up in the place, and I know how we all think."

There's a weak smell of burning pine needles, and The Demon nods in satisfaction.

Ah, jeez.

Warn a guy before you cut the cheese, Demon...

"Done. After you, mate."

"Do I look stupid?"

Is that a trick question?

"No, no. Lots of people make giant cakes." He reaches out and takes a firm grip on the railing before clambering over. "I'm in as much danger as you are, here. I'm not taking risks with my safety."

Fair enough, I suppose. I traverse along the wall until I'm above the balcony and then drop lightly down with my kinetic belt. I glance inside the Tower through the window but fortunately it's empty. Looks like it was part of the same ritual space as the balcony, the whole things making a round platform bisected by the glass.

Just be glad the belt worked like it should. Physics is still probably a little miffed about this place's existence and it might well get huffy.

I don't think I've ever been there before.

Ring, check spell eater.

Temperature normal.

Well, no double-cross yet. But don't assume the scorpion won't sting sooner or later.

Thank you.

"It's clear. Everyone on board."

For which their fingers thank you.

Sanderson comes over next, using his partially transformed sand form to hold onto the wall and move easily. I metaphorically hold my breath because he's magical enough that he might set off the alarm just by being here. I make eye contact with The Demon, but he just shakes his head.

Alan comes next, with Dr. Balewa bringing up the rear. Not waiting for them, the Demon ambles over to the window.

Well, safe spot found. Time for a break to massage aching calves?

"Used. Recently."

I shrug. "It's his tower. Can you get us-" The door opens. "-in?"

"No." He walks through with his hands in his pockets. "We're completely stuck."

There's always a way in, even if you need to take the sledgehammer approach...

Well, everyone's finally on reasonably solid ground. Now, if the mages can do their job, all that running won't be a complete waste. It'd be a poor heist if a locked balcony door brought it to a screeching halt. Never mind the challenge of getting out of here from this spot. Let's just hope Quinn isn't home and looking at the window. That would be all kinds of awkward...

Prince Charon · Jul 13, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"So we'll get back a little after we left?"

"Perhaps? Is it important?"

"Oh, just making conversation. I missed a global invasion last time something like this happened."

I vaguely recall that, but I'm blanking on what he was doing exactly that had him out of the way while the invasion was going on.

Ardy · Jul 13, 2022

Prince Charon said:
I vaguely recall that, but I'm blanking on what he was doing exactly that had him out of the way while the invasion was going on.

He was investigating the place Klarion came from to get info on the Sheeda... and the Sheeda invaded while he was doing that due to a few days in Witch World being months on Earth-16.

Then he came back and got confused for Jordan 10/10 comedy gold.

Ardy · Jul 13, 2022

I was rereading and apparently Mammon knew Welsh-John was a Constantine all along. Unless he was just being euphemistic.

Mr Zoat said:
And John! Nearly as interesting as the original. How are you getting on?"

Darko · Jul 13, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Done. After you, mate."

"Do I look stupid

I mean...

Mr Zoat said:
"No, no. Lots of people make giant cakes

Fair point.

Mr Zoat said:
"I'm in as much danger as you are, here. I'm not taking risks with my safety

Though you are a Constantine, so potentially doing something out of spite is well within your wheelhouse.

NightmareWarden · Jul 13, 2022

Ardy said:
I was rereading and apparently Mammon knew Welsh-John was a Constantine all along. Unless he was just being euphemistic.

That could have been a crack comparing the new "Fate" to the old Fate. I couldn't guess on why new John would be as interesting as Nabu though if this investigation turns into a dead end.

I wonder if Mr Zoat pulled this clone storyline out of a desire to do the "Find the original Roy Harper" storyline better/in a more interesting way.

Darko · Jul 13, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
Then again, Superman pulls it off with glasses, messy hair and bad posture.

Don't underestimate how small things can make a big difference.

Plus aside from the glasses, the sheer absurdity of his civilian identity can play an important role.

Who would think that one of the most powerful beings in the universe works as a reporter?

Chojin Patriarch said:
Admittedly, a lot of the time, his help can make things worse before it gets better.

He's not a Constantine in that regard, but yeah.

Chojin Patriarch said:
And this is all still working on the assumption that there's something hinky about John Quinn, and the Demon's word that OG John is in there...

Yeah, their info isn't the best.

It wouldn't surprise me if the OG John actually chose to let himself be imprisoned to prevent himself from screwing up.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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