Question regarding the new UK law

[Trek]

How does qq plan to deal with the age verification, will it only be set up for uk users?

 

[Celer]

Edit: 1 is wrong, see the thread marked admin response.

1. It seems to apply (drawing off https://www.hsfkramer.com/en_US/insights/key-topics/who-is-caught-by-the-osa).
2. The only realistic option is blocking UK users. Storing IDs safely is hard (see Tea). Verifying them is hard, expensive, or both.
3. In related news, VPN demand from Brits has shot up: Proton is frequently recommended.
4. The US and other countries will not be impressed if British courts try to declare that IP blocking is inadequate without flagrant evidence of deliberate violation (like offering services in London) (this one is just my judgement).
5. I am somewhat optimistic that this abomination of a law will be scaled back at some point in the future.

My apologies to the mods if this goes over the line of politics or current events: I see no other way to discuss the issue.

 

[TikTikKobold]

I'm new here, but isn't this a rule 8 thing?

 

[searcher8]

I mean technically yes, but it's also directly relevant to the user experience of the website, so asking the staff about this is probably warranted.

 

[Vanbers]

I'm new here, but isn't this a rule 8 thing?

Click to shrink...

Technically it is, but it's also something that directly affects a portion of the site's userbase ability to actually use the site.

 

[ultima333]

QuestionableQuesting is not hosted in the UK - as such, it is not immediately subject to the UK's Online Safety Act.
While the OSA does add stipulations for some non-UK based sites, these are for sites that have a "Link to the UK"

Spoiler: Criteria for Link to the UK

Source: https://www.hsfkramer.com/en_US/insights/key-topics/who-is-caught-by-the-osa

1. The service has a significant amount of UK users
- We are small enough that we fall outside of all of the major categorizations, which start at the hundreds of thousands of UK users- we hardly have 100k Daily Active Users period, and the UK residents are far and away from the majority here.

2. The service has UK users as a target market
- QuestionableQuesting has no revenue stream outside of user donations- we do not run advertisements, we do not charge users for features, and we do not sell licensed or official merchandise (that one year's April fool's joke was a 'design your own' mug/bottle site).

3. The service poses a material risk of harm to UK users
- They do provide a list of what they consider illegal harms, and it's stuff that is already against the rules of the site and covered by existing United States law (where we are hosted). We don't host such content.


As such, we have no plans to make any configuration nor rules changes for the UK Online Safety Act.
Or as some might say: "Bollocks to that, now get back to wanking."

 

[Count Nebula]

QuestionableQuesting is not hosted in the UK - as such, it is not immediately subject to the UK's Online Safety Act.
While the OSA does add stipulations for some non-UK based sites, these are for sites that have a "Link to the UK"

Spoiler: Criteria for Link to the UK

View attachment 446
Source: https://www.hsfkramer.com/en_US/insights/key-topics/who-is-caught-by-the-osa

1. The service has a significant amount of UK users
- We are small enough that we fall outside of all of the major categorizations, which start at the hundreds of thousands of UK users- we hardly have 100k Daily Active Users period, and the UK residents are far and away from the majority here.

2. The service has UK users as a target market
- QuestionableQuesting has no revenue stream outside of user donations- we do not run advertisements, we do not charge users for features, and we do not sell licensed or official merchandise (that one year's April fool's joke was a 'design your own' mug/bottle site).

3. The service poses a material risk of harm to UK users
- They do provide a list of what they consider illegal harms, and it's stuff that is already against the rules of the site and covered by existing United States law (where we are hosted). We don't host such content.


As such, we have no plans to make any configuration nor rules changes for the UK Online Safety Act.
Or as some might say: "Bollocks to that, now get back to wanking."

Click to shrink...

Phew. Almost thought I'd have to boot Death Stranding for QQ. That would be the day.

 

[Exaninja]

As such, we have no plans to make any configuration nor rules changes for the UK Online Safety Act.
Or as some might say: "Bollocks to that, now get back to wanking."

Click to shrink...

Yayyyyyyyyy


Now that's a statement I can get behind

 

[D'znn-Xy'lll MetaChthonia]

4. The US and other countries will not be impressed if British courts try to declare that IP blocking is inadequate without flagrant evidence of deliberate violation (like offering services in London) (this one is just my judgement).

Click to shrink...

Speaking of that:
It was actually brought up in another Thread that a report was submitted to SCOTUS about DSA and the Australia thing and the like infringing on US sovereignty and US Rights by dictating the Media and Speech of the entire planet especially for US based companies. So there's that as a fun little thing and throwing a conundrum for the US to puzzle out. Assuming they even acknowledge it. The report mentions "The censorship is largely one-sided, almost uniformly targeting political conservatives." so they might given how that side of the US Politic has become but it's still a weirdly apolitically uniting concern for either. There's also various political factions in the US that want their own Censorship needing to occupy the seat other countries are already in and their Censorship gets in the way of those faction's ability to establish their own. So it's downright bizarro for me to be found on the same side I have been opposed to for my entire adult life and half of my teenage one even if for differing Reasons. They're trying to turn the Internet into an Intranet but with all the things the current Internet already possesses.

But, benefits of having a tiny law-abiding Site from a country that was ultra purityrannical a century ago and now merely pseudo-purityrannical. So very easy to slip through cracks and crevices into the warm moist center of other country's Internet without anyone noticing or caring much. Even better when the NSFW parts are informally Known outside the Site rather then Publicly available.

5. I am somewhat optimistic that this abomination of a law will be scaled back at some point in the future.

Click to shrink...

Started the year getting a refresher on how the US does Government and now getting a crash course on how the UK does theirs. Apparently petition have stages of how serious they need to be taken and at 100,000 signatures it's supposed to be seriously considered(? Citation Needed... I'm not in the UK, been to the UK, or live on the same side of the planet as the UK; don't look to me for this). After around 400,000 they got a response. To paraphrase: "Fuck you, no" and "you all are pedophiles".

So might take a longer time of pressuring them or a change in whomever is the controlling party. Dunno how things work in the gray isles so can't say what could be done and how much control the Public has.

 

[MythicalFanficGod]

As such, we have no plans to make any configuration nor rules changes for the UK Online Safety Act.
Or as some might say: "Bollocks to that, now get back to wanking."

Click to shrink...

This has to be the greatest W of the year for us in the UK.
While we may be losing some gooner sites, we shall not be missing out on peak.

Though I'm wondering if it'd have been much an issue anyway.
The petition has reached 4.75X more votes than needed to debate the law, and we've got nearly 3 months before the petition time ends.

Eh, doesn't matter.
As long as I can still read my highly questionable fanfics.

 

[Cherry Lover]

This has to be the greatest W of the year for us in the UK.
While we may be losing some gooner sites, we shall not be missing out on peak.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, any site like this is just going to ignore the law, because it's just too small to come to the government's notice. The real problem is more well-known sites, especially relatively low-income ones (a whole bunch of AI sites have oturight blocked UK users, for example, because they simply can't afford to comply).

Though I'm wondering if it'd have been much an issue anyway.
The petition has reached 4.75X more votes than needed to debate the law, and we've got nearly 3 months before the petition time ends.

Click to shrink...

Those debates are meaningless. Even if there was an actual desire within the government to repeal the law (which there very clearly is not), the debates that come from petitions are poorly-attended and don't actually involve passing or amending any laws. If the law was to be changed, the government would have to introduce a bill to change it itself (or, very, very occasionally, Parliament might find a way to push something through anyway, which happened a couple of times over Brexit, but that was a very unusual situation).

Ultimately, all the petition does is demonstrate people's concern about the law, and put a bit of pressure on the government to justify it. It's not going to change the law by itself, that requires action by MPs and/or the government.

 

[Voidlord]

I downloaded Proton because one of the creators I am subbed to for Macrophilia content was putting up a block that affected multiple states in the US, and more importantly to me, the UK.

I get my money worth with them as they always post new content monthly. So like hell was I going to unsubscribe.

 

[NumberSix]

Hey, a lot of the discussion here mirrors the stuff we are talking about in this thread, including VPNs and privacy for the people on the Imprisoned Island:

Potential Rule 8 Question: Regarding the Recent Anti-NSFW Content Bans...

Hello; I wanted to ask if it was alright to set up a thread that discusses the ongoing trend of online hosts and providers banning NSFW content outright or making it difficult for NSFW creators to operate. I understand that this is an issue with political dimensions, but considering the nature...

forum.questionablequesting.com

 

[Karmic Acumen]

I was under the impression that the USA was passing or preparing to pass a similar law, dare I hope I'm completely wrong about that? The EU too.

 

[NumberSix]

I was under the impression that the USA was passing or preparing to pass a similar law, dare I hope I'm completely wrong about that? The EU too.

Click to shrink...

The EU has a bunch of bullshit in the pipeline but it needs to also pass through various parliaments after and they are allegedly working on "privacy friendly" age verification, and given that it is part of some legislation the USA dislikes it might be stuck in legal limbo.
The USA iirc tried to pass something that didn't get ratified and also got amended to be less shitty than the UK one, Spain passed some bullshit, too.
Me, I am just gonna do what my people always do when the apocalypse comes, remember the old saying.
"I am staying here, we are decades behind the rest of the world, when it comes I will be long dead."

 

[MythicalFanficGod]

Those debates are meaningless. Even if there was an actual desire within the government to repeal the law (which there very clearly is not), the debates that come from petitions are poorly-attended and don't actually involve passing or amending any laws. If the law was to be changed, the government would have to introduce a bill to change it itself (or, very, very occasionally, Parliament might find a way to push something through anyway, which happened a couple of times over Brexit, but that was a very unusual situation).

Ultimately, all the petition does is demonstrate people's concern about the law, and put a bit of pressure on the government to justify it. It's not going to change the law by itself, that requires action by MPs and/or the government.

Click to shrink...

I see, thank you.
I wasn't familiar with the thing and am not much into politics.

That certainly explains why the response when they were at about 250K out 100K needed to debate was basically 'We have no intention of changing our minds and will follow through with this as fast as possible', basically all but saying they don't plan to change it regardless of how many petition against it.

 

[brokenBillairds]

how much control the Public has

Click to shrink...

Fuck all, essentially

 

[Devastator21]

I very very much dislike the new law honestly it's such a pain.

Woke up checked reddit all of the nsfw subs gone. Did the face thingy half awake and learnt more about it.

Apparently this law was passed a few years back but only came in to effect, there are talks in the government to somehow ban Vpn's like how would they even do that. 400,000 signatures and the response "yeah no mate no can do".

I now have a vpn I haven't used one of these since school to play games on the Pc's.

 

[Cherry Lover]

I very very much dislike the new law honestly it's such a pain.

Woke up checked reddit all of the nsfw subs gone. Did the face thingy half awake and learnt more about it.

Apparently this law was passed a few years back but only came in to effect, there are talks in the government to somehow ban Vpn's like how would they even do that. 400,000 signatures and the response "yeah no mate no can do".

I now have a vpn I haven't used one of these since school to play games on the Pc's.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, any law where it's easier and safer for people to just bypass it than it is to actually comply with it is not a very well-written law, lol.

They won't ban VPNs, though. It's unenforceable unless you go full China on the internet, and there are plenty of legitimate uses for them. Hell, I read that a bunch of MPs and Ministers use VPNs (and even charge the cost to the taxpayer as expenses), because the work they do is highly sensitive and they really need the extra security. The most they will do is ban people from using VPNs to bypass age verification, which will be completely impossible to enforce by the very nature of VPN services.

 

[Monsterboy]

It's unenforceable unless you go full China on the internet

Click to shrink...

The thing is, even China has a shitton of VPN usage. It's not technically legal, but everyone uses them anyway. So this is practically worse in some ways.

I wish these geriatic shitbags all died of heart attacks. None understand tech, or are so corrupt and in bed with corpos that they want to create a surveillance state for both ads and thought suppression.

 

[Cherry Lover]

The thing is, even China has a shitton of VPN usage. It's not technically legal, but everyone uses them anyway. So this is practically worse in some ways.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, even with China-level control, it's not truly enforceable, but it is more difficult over there.

I wish these geriatic shitbags all died of heart attacks. None understand tech, or are so corrupt and in bed with corpos that they want to create a surveillance state for both ads and thought suppression.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, the problem in general is that politicians tend not to have much technical understanding. Science policy tends to have the same issue.

 

[Monsterboy]

Yeah, the problem in general is that politicians tend not to have much technical understanding. Science policy tends to have the same issue.

Click to shrink...

That's part of it, but the bigger issue is their age. Dunno about the UK, but most politicians in the US are like 50+, and were born and lived much of their life before the Internet, or even personal computing was really a thing and was a significantly more puritan time. As a result, few even know what they're even legislating, or how it could even work and barely represent their present constituents.

Things will get better when Millennials are in control, since they're the most tech-savvy generation.

 

[ZeroK and Angel]

They won't ban VPNs, though. It's unenforceable unless you go full China on the internet, and there are plenty of legitimate uses for them. Hell, I read that a bunch of MPs and Ministers use VPNs (and even charge the cost to the taxpayer as expenses), because the work they do is highly sensitive and they really need the extra security. The most they will do is ban people from using VPNs to bypass age verification, which will be completely impossible to enforce by the very nature of VPN services.

Click to shrink...

Yea, I've heard so many people bandy about making VPNs illegal, my response is, ok just to clarify you want to make all banks unable to function right? Not to mention all the offices that have the requirement of vpns, not to mention corporate networks. A friend of mine's job is actually maintaining travel routers for their company, keeping custom firmware and such current so that when people with certain access are traveling, their systems are always behind a firewall and security.

Yeah, the problem in general is that politicians tend not to have much technical understanding. Science policy tends to have the same issue.

Click to shrink...

Yea, I used to think we might have hope later when we would get some tech aware people in...but then I heard a terrifying stat that something like 40% of gen A understand less about tech then their parents do. And sadly it matches what I've seen from the kids of some of my friends who are extremely tech capable, the kids grew up with things 'just working' and it's led to a lot less tinkerers from my experience.

Things will get better when Millennials are in control, since they're the most tech-savvy generation.

Click to shrink...

I was hoping that tech skill and awareness would be a upward curve, but with how many people are 'click and it works no I don't know what I hit yes to' responding to subscriptions and such these days, I feel that people are much less skilled then one gen back. I was a little kid and remember dealing with DOS when I was quite young, so I got used to the 'you have to learn to get what you want out of this thing', roll ahead thirty or so years and I'm seeing stats like the most common walk in at the apple store is for people to get sim cards installed (not sure if still true) and I worry that we are on a down swing for a generation before we get another upswing in tech skills.

 

[Monsterboy]

I was hoping that tech skill and awareness would be a upward curve, but with how many people are 'click and it works no I don't know what I hit yes to' responding to subscriptions and such these days, I feel that people are much less skilled then one gen back. I was a little kid and remember dealing with DOS when I was quite young, so I got used to the 'you have to learn to get what you want out of this thing', roll ahead thirty or so years and I'm seeing stats like the most common walk in at the apple store is for people to get sim cards installed (not sure if still true) and I worry that we are on a down swing for a generation before we get another upswing in tech skills.

Click to shrink...

This is true. I've heard a lot of stories about university students not even knowing basic file structure, let alone navigate the control panel, troubleshoot, or practically anything but mindlessly press next/okay to every prompt.

In reality, I think we actual have an increasing bificuration going on here - far more people with actual tech know-how (what with the upswing of Linux usage, etc.), but also far more near-total tech luddities than we did in the past.

Either way, Millennials and late Gen X will carry better legislation through, even if their successors won't, since they remember the glories of the peak Internet.

 

[ZeroK and Angel]

In reality, I think we actual have an increasing bificuration going on here - far more people with actual tech know-how (what with the upswing of Linux usage, etc.), but also far more near-total tech luddities than we did in the past.

Click to shrink...

Funny you should mention this, but I was talking about that with my mother (is over 80 at this point) the other day about how this is changing from her perspective. I grew up with a 'if you have a problem, you fix it' mentality that she grew up with. When I got to college and I hung out around some friends families, I was sort of shocked to find that they kept calling repair people for what I would consider things I could fix by the time I was ten.
I understand that not everyone has the time to invest learning a really wide set of skills, but my mom has Linux on her laptop and she is slowly learning to use it at a deeper level. I did install it for her, but when she has a problem she tries to figure it out, then asks me if she hits a wall, I show her what happened and how it happened. She is a pretty basic user still, but she understands at a decent level how my home server and NAS works, and she understands how to use the terminal to access the video editing VM I have on the server.
I...don't want to push this into whitehall area...but after seeing a news clip of a certain person in high power making statements that are very clear they don't understand grade school math on how percentages work; I'm not sure that we have too much hope for people who focus on dogma which is needed for most higher level political aspirations will ever have an even middling understanding of the core things our society are built on when it comes to information technologies.

 

[alethiophile]

We've given a de facto Rule 8 exemption to this topic and thread, since it's clearly and directly relevant to QQ the site.

However, since the original question has been asked and answered, and we don't really need to keep a thread open for continued griping and political speculation, this thread will now be locked.