With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Chojin Patriarch · 2026-09-20T09:30:20+0100

Mr Zoat said:
6th October 2013
14:03 GMT -5

Alan smiles at Noriel as the last of the group arrive at the Washington Monument. "Okay, that's about everyone. Zatanna?"

Ah, a field trip for the new team. Understandable enough given the hullabaloo Hunter caused previously, with his ill-advised magic-use. Definitely a chance to give everyone the same level of experience in weird places.

Zatanna takes a couple of steps out in front of the huddle, and I take a moment to observe the crowd around us. Tourism is, naturally enough, way down from its pre-Anti-Life peak, so these are probably locals. And they're keeping well back from what looks like a superhero pre-battle muster but is actually a field trip.

Superhero spotters already flocking in, no doubt. The kind of folks foolish enough to stick around but wise enough to stay back.

"Okay. After what happened last week with Hunter, I thought it would be a good idea if everyone got exposed to magical planes of reality."

Cody smiles nervously. "What, like..? In the Wizard of Oz?"

Oz is a bit of a crazy place when you look beyond the movies. It probably exists somewhere in the Dreaming...

"Ah, kind-" Zatanna nods. "-of, yeah."

"Huh. Uh, okay." He looks at Henry, who gives him a reassuring nod. "So where are we going?"

That's Risk and Hawk, for those who are having trouble keeping up. Peril of introducing a rough dozen new and returning characters.

"It's called 'The Heartlands'. It's a reflection of the Americas."

"To be specific, the United States."

An idealised realisation of the dream of America as it ought to be, some might say. And somewhat beset by the realities.

Don smiles at me. "Are you allowed in?"

"President Kennedy vouched for me."

Hiro raises his right hand awkwardly. "Would he..? Vouch for me also?"

Hey, Japanese-American regiments did take part in World War II.

Zatanna nods. "People who aren't Americans might experience a little more hostility than people who are, but it's still a fairly safe place to go. That's why we're using it for this class. So long as you don't go out of your way to antagonise anyone you meet, you should be fine. Hunter?"

Mostly safe, yes. Hopefully they have enough magical oomph to protect the younger recruits.

He gives her his full attention.

"Paul?"

Sure, target the two English guys...

"What?"

"No singing Yankee Doodle."

I don't know, depending on the version, they might appreciate it.

"I wasn't going to, but suddenly I want to."

Edward looks confused. "I thought that was a Civil War song."

Remember that one painting with the marching soldiers? They are said to be playing a version of it. And in U.S. there's a panel featuring Sam as the white-haired gent. (Singing "And with the girls be handy!", no less.) And that's Kid Devil speaking there.

"The full lyrics contain the word 'trousers'."

"Oh." He frowns, because there's probably a bootleg American version that he's remembering.

Because the revolutionaries took the song and turned it back on them.

Donald takes pity on him. "It was originally written to mock the colonial militia, but when we started winning the War of Independence, our soldiers started singing it at the British. You know, 'sure, we're a bunch of amateurs with no uniforms or training, but we still beat you'."

Dove, speaking up. And neatly summing up the turnaround.

Edward smile. "Oh! Thanks Dove!"

"Or I could just set fire to the White House."

You wouldn't be the first, OL.

Alan raises his hands. "Okay, settle down. Everyone ready?"

I nod instinctively, and a few of the others follow suit.

Has everyone gotten their paperwork done? Don't forget your stuff. Hope everyone went before they left.

"Zatanna?"

"Yas, nac uoy ees,
Yb eht s'nwad ylrae thgil,
Tahw os ylduorp ew deliah,"

Fitting that the spell would involve the Star Spangled Banner.

The air in front of the Monument grows increasingly wobbly.

"Ta eht s'thgiliwt tsal gnimaelg?"

Another call-back to the War of 1812. Specifically, the Battle of Baltimore and its sack of Fort McHenry..

It was a fluke, the cannons could easily have hit the damn flag, or if they'd used chain-shot-.

The portal shimmers and stabilises and I decide to lead the way, marching forwards towards the Monument.

Now, now, OL. Let's not ruin the trip by being salty on behalf of your ancestors...

"If anyone sees a vulture, let me know."

And… Through..? The sky is overcast, the buildings somewhat grey and discoloured… But there's no giant brass man firing an artillery cannon at us so already better than my first visit. And no giant fortress walls either, so things are definitely improving.

Reflecting the mood of the country, of course.

"Well lookie here!" I turn as I step aside, spotting Uncle Sam sitting on George Washington's lap. "Can't say I thought you'd ever come back."

"Didn't plan to. Is the vulture around?"

...I guess the Washington Monument is a little different in this ideal realm. There's a statue of Washington at the monument, but he's not sitting. Lincoln, on the other hand...

"Y'all worried about Johnny? Don't be."

"I don't like getting people killed by accident. It makes me-."

Eh, as long as the thing he represented still exists in the mind of the people, the symbol here would live on.

Isaiah comes through first, eyes wide as he looks around. Then Antonia and Edward, looking much the same-.

Goodness me, but I've become jaded.

Slager, Argent and Kid Devil, again. Looking suitably awed.

"Uh, excuse me?" Edward looks up at Uncle Sam as the rest of the tour pass through the portal. "You're not supposed to sit up there."

"Ah?" Uncle Sam raises his eyebrows as Zatanna pushes through the crowd towards Edward. "Well, I'm sure-" He turns to face the statue. "-I'm very sorry, Georgie-boy."

Heh. Depending on the stories, Sam knew the real George Washington, even advised and counselled him at times. I'm sure his spirit wouldn't mind...

"Oh, that's alright." The statue reaches over and picks him up around the waist, and then lowers him to the ground. "I prefer you doing it to the other guy."

Edward blinks, his mouth hanging open. "Huh?"

...Don't talk about that one. You might get his attention.

"Shut your mouth, young man." Uncle Sam extends his cane and gently raises Edward's jaw. "You'll catch flies, else."

Alan nods to Uncle Sam. "Good to see you looking better."

Ah, Old friends meeting again.

"Well, there was a bad patch in the New Year, but I hear you fellahs fixed it."

"We did. How bad was it here?"

A bit more doom-and-gloom than usual, I would imagine.

"Bad. Poor old Kennedy was runnin' on fumes, keeping it from getting worse." Uncle Sam looks around the party. "This an educational trip?"

"It is."

John F Kennedy embodying all of Modern America's hopes and dreams, of course.

"Then perhaps I should just show you all. It's a mite gruesome, but maybe that'll just make it stick their noggins all the more firmly."

He turns and walks away from us, down an empty road.

Hopefully not a long and lonesome road...

"Come along, children! Let Uncle Sam show you what's what!"

Isaiah looks to Zatanna for confirmation. "Uncle Sam? The guy from World War Two?"

Bit older than that, but he was acting publicly back then. (And appearing in comics of the day...)

She nods as she leads the crowd after him. "That's him."

"How old is he?"

"About two hundred and thirty years old."

As old as the idea of America, basically.

"Huh?"

"Essentially, he's the idealised embodied form of American idealism. Not sure why he looks like an old man. Blame your ancestors, I guess."

And waxing and waning in power as the mood of the country shifted...

"My ancestors?"

Uncle Sam raises his walking stick and waves it pointedly. "The other fellow mighta cared that you're a negro, I just care that you're a good man. Don't you be thinking you're not included, son."

"Ah, okay. So where are we going?"

For those who don't remember, that would be the 'alternate' Uncle Sam, representing the flipside of the Heartlands, and correspondingly inverted in character: Selfish, Conceited and Prejudiced.

Ah, and perhaps we see the shape of the episode. This little field trip into the spiritual landscape of America exposing some worms in the soil. It's certainly a diverse group here, mostly American and hailing from all parts of the mainland States. And even the guests should be welcome for the most parts.

Darko · 2026-09-20T09:37:05+0100

Mr Zoat said:
It's a reflection of the America."

"of America"

Mr Zoat said:
"No singing Yankee Doodle."

"I wasn't going to, but suddenly I want to

And you may have to if Sam is killed and you need to revive him.

Mr Zoat · 2026-09-20T09:48:45+0100

Chojin Patriarch said:
...I guess the Washington Monument is a little different in this ideal realm. There's a statue of Washington at the monument, but he's not sitting. Lincoln, on the other hand...

Oh, whoops. No, that's me getting it wrong. Hang on...

Darko said:
"of America"

Thank you, corrected.

And you may have to if Sam is killed and you need to revive him.

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/7MSC7gALHdQ?si=ORFr4LJ7Oa3dE4Mk

Darko · 2026-09-20T09:55:58+0100

Vaermina said:
It was less then 90 ships, I just watched the part in the movie and counted

And that's still more than just a dozen like you claimed.

Vaermina said:
Which is meaningless as the vast majority of Orange Lantern's more dangerous abilities come from things he can't do without access to DC tech, abilities, and the Ophidian.

And yet power rings are still incredibly powerful, even without those things.

Vaermina said:
They don't have to catch him, the galaxy is dead outside of the small chunk of space Babylon 5 takes place in, all they have to do is make sure he has no ground to run too.

And the parts that are still alive are vast and have enough space for him to hide in.

Heck, even the dead parts aren't that much of a problem, since with a power ring his physical needs are met without him having to eat, sleep, drink or even breathe.

Vaermina said:
Yes, Delenn absolutely would, because achieving peace doesn't matter if he's refusing to let them pass on since the Minbari religion is all about reincarnation

Okay, and if he just let's let's the Minbari pass on, but the others stay because they don't believe e in the Minbari religion, what then?

There's not much she can actually do to him.

Vaermina said:
Yes, the only way they might not is if the First One's he claims to be an agent of show up and prove they exist and support him

Yeah, because First Ones regularly show up in order to appease younger races.

Vaermina said:
Yes, Delenn played straight to character would thank him, listen to him, then ask politely that he release the souls he's holding. At which point if he refuses then she would know he's not being honest about his good intentions.

And at that point she'd be unable to do anything, aside from maybe barring other Minbari from speaking to him or doing business with him.

In which case, the Minbari souls he has will not find peace because he can't help them.

Vaermina said:
No, it proves that you were over-claiming about actual power ring capabilities.

And you always underplay power ring abilities.

Vaermina said:
This is Babylon 5, not DC comics, the most advanced tech he could potentially scan is Minbari tech since he's already been proven to be unable to scan First One tech.

So if the Minbari attack him, he can just scan and replicate their tech.

Vaermina said:
Not that he would be able to duplicate it if he could since Power Rings can't duplicate organic tech.

Provide a quote where it's stated that orange rings can't scan organic tech.

Because orange rings have been shown as being able to manipulate flesh multiple times, so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they can't do that.

Vaermina said:
Shadows can generate defensive energy constructs, were they doing so to protect themselves? Yes or No.

They can only generate a shield that protects the front of their bodies.

Lyta shot them in the back and they died.

Vaermina said:
JMS literally said it would have worked both online and directly in the show since that was one of Londo's "three chances".

And I'll say it again, Londo used what few options he thought were best to stop his planet from getting blown up.

Darko · 2026-09-20T13:29:15+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Edward smile. "Oh! Thanks Dove!"

"smiles"

Mr Zoat said:
"Or I could just set fire to the White House

You're about two hundred years late for that.

Mr Zoat · 2026-09-20T16:11:34+0100

Darko said:
"smiles"

Thank you, corrected.

You're about two hundred years late for that.

I figure, anytime you burn down the White House is White House burning time.

Steelplaza · 2026-09-20T16:42:28+0100

I recall reading a DC comic once that implied Superman was becoming well enough integrated into the American mythos that he too would have a mythical reflection in the Heartlands (though the comic didn't use that term). Sort of like Kennedy. The idea was that the actual Superman could potentially learn to draw on that mythic reflection to increase his own resistance to magic, patching up one of his few weaknesses. It's one thing to turn Kal-El the Kryptonian into a frog with a spell. It's another thing to transform the symbol of Truth, Justice, and the American Way.

I don't think DC ever really followed up on that idea, but I think it's interesting.

Vaermina · 2026-09-20T18:05:31+0100

Darko said:
And that's still more than just a dozen like you claimed.

I said "dozens" as in plural, you said "hundreds" as in plural.

90 = dozens, 90=/= 200+.

Darko said:
And yet power rings are still incredibly powerful, even without those things.

If you were talking a Silver Age power ring, sure, but as we saw in story, Power Rings on their own with no database, power battery, and no-enlightenment are highly limited.

Darko said:
And the parts that are still alive are vast and have enough space for him to hide in.

Heck, even the dead parts aren't that much of a problem, since with a power ring his physical needs are met without him having to eat, sleep, drink or even breathe.

Not from the Minbari they don't, nobody messes with them.

And he's incapable of living a solitary life of no-impact in the middle of nowhere.

Darko said:
Okay, and if he just let's let's the Minbari pass on, but the others stay because they don't believe e in the Minbari religion, what then?

There's not much she can actually do to him.

Assuming he lets the Minbari pass on, and could prove it to their satisfaction, the Minbari would just have a general disdain for him instead of demanding his death.

Darko said:
Yeah, because First Ones regularly show up in order to appease younger races.

They don't, but members of younger races do regularly pretend to have First One technology. (Hell, the show literally had a Kosh Impersonator on it.)

So the onus is on him to prove he's actually "representing a race of First One's" and not just someone who stumbled upon their technology.

Darko said:
And at that point she'd be unable to do anything, aside from maybe barring other Minbari from speaking to him or doing business with him.

In which case, the Minbari souls he has will not find peace because he can't help them.

Incorrect, she could also bring political pressure on everyone else to exclude him from galactic society which pretty much everyone would do since the Minbari are worth a lot more as friends then some guy with a piece of First One tech.

Darko said:
And you always underplay power ring abilities.

No, I play them exactly as they are shown in the story.

Darko said:
So if the Minbari attack him, he can just scan and replicate their tech.

Some of it, but then the Minbari would send the warrior caste with fleets to kill him.

Darko said:
Provide a quote where it's stated that orange rings can't scan organic tech.

Because orange rings have been shown as being able to manipulate flesh multiple times, so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they can't do that.

I didn't say they can't scan organic tech, I said they can't scan First One tech.

I said they can't make constructs of organic tech, which is canon and something Zoat has covered in story multiple times.

Darko said:
They can only generate a shield that protects the front of their bodies.

Lyta shot them in the back and they died.

So not just no, thus proving my point, but you added a new claim on top of it.

Get to proving.

Darko said:
And I'll say it again, Londo used what few options he thought were best to stop his planet from getting blown up.

And JMS literally said he did not and let his desire for revenge get the better of him.

teikan · 2026-09-20T18:48:22+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Harmony is something… How ponies live when they're completely virtuous. How Equestrian society would work… The 'utopian' version,

No, harmony is literally a separate entity.

https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/What_Lies_Beneath

And now, somepony who knows how unicorn ponies fight.

Trixie. Seriously, how could you remember Tempest but miss out on such an outstanding battle unicorn?

Now: if pegasus pony soldiers don't know how to use weather as a weapon, who does?

Surprisingly, Trixie... I'm serious.

Sunset shakes her head. "I told you: there aren't any earth ponies in Equestria who know how to use earth pony magic."

No one... Except for the pinky, maud, cheese sandwich. Perhaps we could also invite Applejack to the lesson in case we suddenly need to grow a daisy on the battlefield and try our luck with Zecora, but otherwise, there aren't many left... Except for a WHOLE ARMY of PINKIE CLONES, each of whom has no home, no job, no documents,
and happily acquired all of this

Darko · 2026-09-20T19:41:12+0100

Vaermina said:
If you were talking a Silver Age power ring, sure, but as we saw in story, Power Rings on their own with no database, power battery, and no-enlightenment are highly limited

Yeah, they are limited.

But they're still stronger than 99% of things in this universe.

Vaermina said:
Not from the Minbari they don't, nobody messes with them.

And he's incapable of living a solitary life of no-impact in the middle of nowhere.

So the Minbari are omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, and they can perfectly know where he is at all times and get to him?

Vaermina said:
Assuming he lets the Minbari pass on, and could prove it to their satisfaction, the Minbari would just have a general disdain for him instead of demanding his death.

I think he can live with that.

Vaermina said:
Incorrect, she could also bring political pressure on everyone else to exclude him from galactic society which pretty much everyone would do since the Minbari are worth a lot more as friends then some guy with a piece of First One tech.

Yeah, because politicians in this universe don't do backroom deals with others.

Vaermina said:
No, I play them exactly as they are shown in the story.

And we know you don't really read the story.

Vaermina said:
Some of it, but then the Minbari would send the warrior caste with fleets to kill him.

And he somehow won't be able to get away from them, or defeat them, why?

Vaermina said:
I said they can't make constructs of organic tech, which is canon and something Zoat has covered in story multiple times

Provide a quote where this is stated, or drop it.

Vaermina said:
So not just no, thus proving my point, but you added a new claim on top of it.

Nope, I just watched the movie and have a basic, functional memory.

It was during the part where Sheridan ended up in timeline where the Shadows invaded Babylon 5.

Vaermina said:
Get to proving

Ha!

You sating that someone should do this is as hilarious as it is hypocritical.

Watch the movie and try to remember something.

Even if I provided you with the proof you'd just ignore it.

Mr Zoat · 2026-09-20T20:18:01+0100

teikan said:
No, harmony is literally a separate entity.

https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/What_Lies_Beneath

That episode is after I stopped watching.

Trixie. Seriously, how could you remember Tempest but miss out on such an outstanding battle unicorn?

Surprisingly, Trixie... I'm serious.

Trixie is a member of an innately magical species who makes her living doing fake magic, but is so bad at fake magic that she needed Starlight's help to fake doing fake magic. The only time she was actually a threat was when she used the Alicorn Amulet, and that drove her nuts.

No one... Except for the pinky, maud, cheese sandwich. Perhaps we could also invite Applejack to the lesson in case we suddenly need to grow a daisy on the battlefield and try our luck with Zecora, but otherwise, there aren't many left... Except for a WHOLE ARMY of PINKIE CLONES, each of whom has no home, no job, no documents,
and happily acquired all of this

I'm pretty sure that whatever Pinkie does, it doesn't involve earth pony magic. And Maud doesn't exactly put herself out there. Sunset might have heard of Rusty Tenure, but even that's not very likely.

teikan · 2026-09-20T21:24:42+0100

Mr Zoat said:
That episode is after I stopped watching.

OK

Trixie is a member of an innately magical species who makes her living doing fake magic, but is so bad at fake magic that she needed Starlight's help to fake doing fake magic. The only time she was actually a threat was when she used the Alicorn Amulet, and that drove her nuts.

No, her magic is strong. In her first appearance it is demonstrated that she can create cloud and teleport objects - Very good results for a unicorn. Starlight's teleportation training is a retcon. (And if we use the information further in the series, then Trixie is stronger than Starlight because she was able to change Rarity's mane when Starlight and Twilight could not)
Trixie, without magic, was able to evade and resist army of changelings (as well somehow teleport without magic. This is confirmed by her human version being able to do the same.)

I'm pretty sure that whatever Pinkie does, it doesn't involve earth pony magic. And Maud doesn't exactly put herself out there. Sunset might have heard of Rusty Tenure, but even that's not very likely.

Only earth ponies did cartoonish things. The fact that only earth ponies did it is enough for me..
I haven't checked, but as far as I remember, when Tirek and Kozy take pinkie magic, she stopped using cartoon tricks.

Oh, I also forgot to mention that cutie marks give skills/powers. When Apple Bloom got her cutie marks in season two, she learned how to do new things instantly.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Chojin Patriarch

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Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

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Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

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