With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darko]

No, I mean in story... Lyta picked up the souls when she mind dove him, just like the Vorlon did.

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Neither of those sensed a Shadow servant in him, so whatever marker the Drakh used to have is most likely gone.

Then you shouldn't have any trouble providing that evidence that Zoat rings can hack into the hostile computer networks of species roughly comparable to the Minbari

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Well there were many times that Paul hacked advanced computer systems, to the point that magic was needed to counteract him.

Other countermeasures used by alien species worked because those races have had experience with power rings due to the Green Lanterns, so they would have eventually been able to figure out a way to counteract them.

Oh, and since you forgot, the Mammon version was able to basically copy Nox tech.

The Nox are more advanced than the Minbari.

Or providing evidence of him creating fake data crystals that can fool a civilization of the Minbari's general technological level

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I was thinking more like having the soul write something on paper and then he'd age the paper.

Which is something that he can do.

 

[Jankl]

Oh, and since you forgot, the Mammon version was able to basically copy Nox tech.

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Yeah power ring technology is absolutely ridiculous. I don't know how accurate the Babylon 5 wiki is but it doesn't seem like their technology should be advanced enough to stop a power ring. https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Minbari_Federation

 

[Vaermina]

Neither of those sensed a Shadow servant in him, so whatever marker the Drakh used to have is most likely gone.

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Lyta is only a P5 and wouldn't know what she was sensing, and he ran away from the Vorlon before it could get anywhere.

Well there were many times that Paul hacked advanced computer systems, to the point that magic was needed to counteract him.

Other countermeasures used by alien species worked because those races have had experience with power rings due to the Green Lanterns, so they would have eventually been able to figure out a way to counteract them.

Oh, and since you forgot, the Mammon version was able to basically copy Nox tech.

The Nox are more advanced than the Minbari.

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The only technology the Nox are shown to possess is anti-gravity technology and an FTL communications system, neither of which are more advanced then what the Minbari use.

Everything else they do is psychic powers.

So for a third time I'll ask you, provide evidence of a Zoat Power Ring being used to successful hack a hostile computer network of a race technologically comparable to the Minbari.

I was thinking more like having the soul write something on paper and then he'd age the paper.

Which is something that he can do.

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And you have evidence that the Minbari, a species that has been space faring for thousands of years, regularly use paper?

 

[Darko]

The only technology the Nox are shown to possess is anti-gravity technology and an FTL communications system, neither of which are more advanced then what the Minbari use.

Everything else they do is psychic powers

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Yeah, sure.

A race that was once a peer to the Alterans and Asgard would not have advanced tech.

Any other brilliant statements?

So for a third time I'll ask you, provide evidence of a Zoat Power Ring being used to successful hack a hostile computer network of a race technologically comparable to the Minbari

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Renegade basically broke into the Fortress of Solitude in order to learn how to fix Match and alter Kon to become fully Kryptonian, and in order to do that he basically downloaded all the info the place had.

Though the Kryptonians aren't really comfortable to the Minbari. The Kryptonians are most likely more advanced.

And you have evidence that the Minbari, a species that has been space faring for thousands of years, regularly use paper

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What does their age have to do with that?

Seriously, we've had computer tech for decades, but we still use paper.

The Minbari may have had advanced tech for a millennium, but they are extremely committed to their traditions and customs, so them using paper or written documents instead of totally using computers isn't exactly farfetched.

They also wouldn't be the first race that's still using archaic methods despite having advanced tech.

According to the RPG books you like to quote as if they're canon, the Narn consider it heresy to create digital copies of their holy books.

The Narn have had access to advanced tech for a century, and even if the Centauri kept some of that from them, the Narn have still had decades of freedom to switch to digital, but they haven't.

 

[BR549]

Yeah power ring technology is absolutely ridiculous. I don't know how accurate the Babylon 5 wiki is but it doesn't seem like their technology should be advanced enough to stop a power ring.

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All the Younger Races' computer systems will roll over and wave their legs in the air like an upended cockroach for a power ring intrusion.
The Vorlons might be able to stop it.
The Shadows probably would, but it depends*.
The Walkers etc. would just go "Zog No" and give an ethereially electronic raspberry.


* ...it depends on how much they use wetware for things other than running the battlecrabs.
Which...opens up a genuinely terrifying future possibility.


And that is the possibility of assimilating a Battlecrab.

 

[Ardy]

You know what, I'm not dropping this.

I'm still REALLY miffed Santa Claus wasn't a part of defeating the anti-life. It could even make the SI really concerned that a man breaks into his super-fortress, or even Maltus for Effigy, to deliver his gifts year after year.

 

[Vaermina]

Yeah, sure.

A race that was once a peer to the Alterans and Asgard would not have advanced tech.

Any other brilliant statements?

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The Nox were never described as a "peer" to the Alterans in the show.

Neither were the Asgard by the way.

Renegade basically broke into the Fortress of Solitude in order to learn how to fix Match and alter Kon to become fully Kryptonian, and in order to do that he basically downloaded all the info the place had.

Though the Kryptonians aren't really comfortable to the Minbari. The Kryptonians are most likely more advanced.

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Zoat massively nerfed Kryptonian tech on Earth 14, and as far as we know the Fortress of Solitude had no digital security.

What does their age have to do with that?

Seriously, we've had computer tech for decades, but we still use paper.

The Minbari may have had advanced tech for a millennium, but they are extremely committed to their traditions and customs, so them using paper or written documents instead of totally using computers isn't exactly farfetched.

They also wouldn't be the first race that's still using archaic methods despite having advanced tech.

According to the RPG books you like to quote as if they're canon, the Narn consider it heresy to create digital copies of their holy books.

The Narn have had access to advanced tech for a century, and even if the Centauri kept some of that from them, the Narn have still had decades of freedom to switch to digital, but they haven't.

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The RPG books are canon, however Zoat has stated he's only using the shows.

And the Narn aren't the Minbari, they were literally an agrarian society before the Centauri found them 150 years ago.

This whole conversation is especially funny however, because JMS was such a perfectionist about the little details that he made sure the Minbari didn't use paper. The few times we actually see them passing around physical messages and the like amongst themselves, they're shown to be using some type crystaline fabric scrolls.

 

[Darko]

The Nox were never described as a "peer" to the Alterans in the show.

Neither were the Asgard by the way.

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The fact that they were allies in the first place is kinda a massive hint that even if they weren't equals in the tech department, they were still extremely advanced.

Zoat massively nerfed Kryptonian tech on Earth 14, and as far as we know the Fortress of Solitude had no digital security.

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It's still incredibly advanced and better than Minbari tech.

And the Narn aren't the Minbari, they were literally an agrarian society before the Centauri found them 150 years ago

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Yeah, and they've still had the ability to go fully digital, but decided not to.

This whole conversation is especially funny however, because JMS was such a perfectionist about the little details that he made sure the Minbari didn't use paper. The few times we actually see them passing around physical messages and the like amongst themselves, they're shown to be using some type crystaline fabric scrolls

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And did they use such a thing during the architects time?

And if they did, what's to stop Matthew from just making something like that, given the fact that we've seen power rings be able to make things that range from fully organic bodies for intelligent beings, to anti-matter?

 

[Mr Zoat]

4th April 2258
10:09 Station Time
Michael Garibaldi

Hm.

Okay, so it's definitely him-.

My office door opens, and my head jerks around-.

Jeff walks in. "Michael, you wanted to see me?"

"Yeah." I press a couple of buttons and put the picture my guys took of 'Matthew Underwood' up on the monitor. "This is Matthew Underwood. Stopped an attack on a minbari poet yesterday by some nutjobs who think the War's still going on."

Jeff nods, and I press the button and move to the next image. "And this was taken just before Lyta Alexander left the station."

Matthew Underwood and Lyta Alexander eating lunch together at a restaurant.

"I see. You think he had something to do with her disappearance?"

Do I?

Apart from the fact that he clearly thought I wouldn't recognise a sonic stunner, not really. Too earnest. Way too earnest.

"He didn't give me that kind of vibe. Problem is, when I asked him about it, he said 'I guess I just like helping people'."

Jeff chuckles. "Not everyone's so jaded-."

I shake my head. "Nah, see, that's not it. You ever met anyone who's been sentenced to death of personality… After it's been done?"

Jeff looks more sombre as he shakes his head. "I can't say I have."

"I have. 'I just like helping people' is one of the phrases they get programmed with. Now, would a regular guy take on two armed guys for some woman he's never met?" I shrug. "Sure, maybe. But someone who's personality is completely based around helping other people? Yeah, they'll do it ten times out of ten."

Jeff nods. "How does that relate to Lyta's disappearance?"

I shake my head, tensing my jaw. "I don't know yet. Because if I'm right, then he either had it done before he met her, or afterwards. If it was before, then he wouldn't hurt her. Could be a witness, could be a coincidence. But if it was done between now and then…"

"Then he was a murderer who got caught, sentenced and mind-wiped, and the prosecutors might not have known that Lyta was missing."

I nod. "Yeah. Now, a telepath should have gone through his head to see if there were any other victims before they carried out the sentence, but from what I hear? They all hate doing it, so they mostly just confirm that the jury got the right verdict."

"Did you already send this picture to the investigators?"

I nod, taking a deep breath. "Yeah. And they both got on the shuttle that was taking her back to Earth… But here's where things get really weird."

"Okay?"

"He got on the shuttle. He didn't get off the shuttle, and neither did she. I checked all the station's exterior cameras in case someone pulled the same boarding pod trick as our changeling friend, nothing. Fine, not my problem. But then I looked at Matthew Underwood's background, and turns out? He doesn't have one."

Jeff raises his eyebrows. "Excuse me?"

"No birth records, no tax records, no school records, nothing. He's got medical records from a check-up he had in med-bay, and that's it. As far as any record I can find says, he just appeared out of nowhere a few days before she went missing."

Jeff frowns, and I'm glad this is bugging someone else now. "Any matches on his face, fingerprints or iris scan?"

"Nada."

"Do you think he's a spy?"

"If he hadn't walked in and requested citizenship, maybe. But one of our spies would have had all these records arranged for them in advance. And if he's not one of ours, then, who? Centauri? Nah, centauri spies are pros. They'd get records in the system first, too."

"Do people who've had their minds wiped get new records?"

"They're supposed to. But get this: when he got asked where he came from, he told the guy doing the interview that he woke up on an uninhabited planet with no idea how he got there."

And now Jeff looks like I feel. "So… You think someone wiped his mind and then pushed him out an airlock?"

I lean back in my chair, shrugging. "I don't know, Commander. This one's… Weird."

"Do you want my authorization to bring him in for questioning?"

"And ask him what?" I shake my head. "Whether he's telling the truth or not, he's just gunna give us the same story. No, what I'd like you to do is request that the Justice Department confirm whether they lost him or not. That needs to come from the commanding officer."

"Okay." He nods. "Anything else?"

"Well, if he is a spy, and he's one of ours, I need to stop investigating. Now, I can send a request to Earthforce Intelligence, but if you do it they might actually answer."

"Just say we may have found one of their agents and ask if they want us to back off?"

"Yeah. Because a disappearing telepath? No one's stupid enough to try kidnapping a telepath for ransom. She didn't have any enemies and there were no signs of violence. That doesn't say 'attack' to me. That says 'telepath underground' and 'she went voluntarily'."

Jeff thinks about that for a moment. "Lyta was a member of Psi Corps."

"Yeah, well, maybe she saw something she didn't like. She was going to Earth 'cause she got ordered to, right? Maybe it was something to do with that? Whatever else she saw while she was poking around Kosh's mind? I dunno. Guess I just wanted someone else to share my frustration."

Jeff nods, then thinks for a moment. "Is he still on the station?"

"Shipping out for Minbar tomorrow."

"What for?"

"Tourism. Ambassador Delenn signed off on his visa personally."

"Is he coming back?"

"Nothing's filed, but his lease on his quarters in Brown Sector is paid up for another eight months." Aaaah. "And that's the other thing. He owns his own ship."

"His own ship?"

"Yeah. Bought it off the narn government. Personal yacht. It's moored outside the station now. Which…" I shake my head. "I don't know what it means, because I can't think of a way for someone who's been through death of personality to make enough money to buy it the regular way, and I can't think of anything he could have done for Ambassador G'Kar to get it as a reward."

"Okay. I'll get those information requests filed, and you can decide if you wanna investigate any further. And…" He nods to himself. "Let me know when he comes back. I think I should have a talk with him myself."

 

[BR549]

For those unfamiliar, 'Jeff' would be Commander Sinclair, B5's first commander.

And here we look into the devious mind of Mister Garibaldi...who has been trying to put two and two together, and not realising he only has two and one, is getting 'mauve'.

John chuckles. "Not everyone's so jaded-."

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'Jeff'

And if he's not one of our, then, who?

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'ours'

"Shipping out for minbar tomorrow."

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'Minbar'

Guess I just wanted someone else to share my frustration."

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Someone other than the Egyptian god of hanging over your bed, at least.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

4th April 2258
10:09 Station Time
Michael Garibaldi

Hm.

Okay, so it's definitely him-.

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Ah, and the suspicions pile up towards 'Matthew Underwood'. Of course Garibaldi would be wary of such a simple-seeming incident. Now, what will he uncover when he digs deeper, I wonder...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

My office door opens, and my head jerks around-.

Jeff walks in. "Michael, you wanted to see me?"

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Reading the station commander in? Good plan, especially if they need station-wide observation.

"Yeah." I press a couple of buttons and put the picture my guys took of 'Michael Underwood' up on the monitor. "This is Michael Underwood. Stopped an attack on a minbari poet yesterday by some nutjobs who think the War's still going on."

Jeff nods, and I press the button and move to the next image. "And this was taken just before Lyta Alexandra left the station."

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Oh, dear. Garibaldi's been connecting the dots, I see.

Michael Underwood and Lyta Alexandra eating lunch together at a restaurant.

"I see. You think he had something to do with her disappearance?"

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Ah, they have no idea what happened to her, do they? Not like she left a goodbye e-mail.

Do I?

Apart from the fact that he clearly thought I wouldn't recognise a sonic stunner, not really. Too earnest. Way too earnest.

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Ah, security cameras caught the 'fight', eh?

"He didn't give me that kind of vibe. Problem is, when I asked him about it, he said 'I guess I just like helping people'."

John chuckles. "Not everyone's so jaded-."

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Altruism is suspicious, in this case.

I shake my head. "Nah, see, that's not it. You ever met anyone who's been sentenced to death of personality… After it's been done?"

Jeff looks more sombre as he shakes his head. "I can't say I have."

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Ooof. That's an actual criminal sentence in this era?

"I have. 'I just like helping people' is one of the phrases they get programmed with. Now, would a regular guy take on two armed guys for some woman he's never met?" I shrug. "Sure, maybe. But someone who's personality is completely based around helping other people? Yeah, they'll do it ten times out of ten."

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Oh, boy. Garibaldi has totally gotten his initial guess wrong and now all his subsequent data is faulty...

Jeff nods. "How does that relate to Lyta's disappearance?"

I shake my head, tensing my jaw. "I don't know yet. Because if I'm right, then he either had it done before he met her, or afterwards. If it was before, then he wouldn't hurt her. Could be a witness, could be a coincidence. But if it was done between now and then…"

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Since it has been a year since she left.

"Then he was a murderer who got caught, sentenced and mind-wiped, and the prosecutors might not have known that Lyta was missing."

I nod. "Yeah. Now, a telepath should have gone through his head to see if there were any other victims before they carried out the sentence, but from what I hear? They all hate doing it, so they mostly just confirm that the jury got the right verdict."

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Ah, the outlook of the cynical man. If you start from the worst possible point, anything after becomes an improvement.

"Did you already send this picture to the investigators?"

I nod, taking a deep breath. "Yeah. And they both got on the shuttle that was taking her back to Earth… But here's where things get really weird."

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Heh. One of the great mysteries of the time, if it were more widely known. Kind of like D. B. Cooper.

"Okay?"

"He got on the shuttle. He didn't get off the shuttle, and neither did she. I checked all the station's exterior cameras in case someone pulled the same boarding pod trick as our changeling friend, nothing. Fine, not my problem. But then I looked at Matthew Underwood's background, and turns out? He doesn't have one."

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And that is a giant red flag right there. Not for the reasons Garibaldi is assuming, but...

Jeff raises his eyebrows. "Excuse me?"

"No birth records, no tax records, no school records, nothing. He's got medical records from a check-up he had in med-bay, and that's it. As far as any record I can find says, he just appeared out of nowhere a few days before she went missing."

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It'd be interesting if they looked at the medicals and saw oddities that 'modern' humans wouldn't have. And things missing that they should. Trace elements not seen for decades, common bio-mods not found...

Jeff frowns, and I'm glad this is bugging someone else now. "Any matches on his face, fingerprints or iris scan?"

"Nada."

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In their experience, that just doesn't happen, ever.

"Do you think he's a spy?"

"If he hadn't walked in and requested citizenship, maybe. But one of our spies would have had all these records arranged for them in advance. And if he's not one of ours, then, who? Centauri? Nah, centauri spies are pros. They'd get records in the system first, too."

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And most other races don't have the physiology to pass for human even with cosmetic surgery.

"Do people who've had their minds wiped get new records?"

"They're supposed to. But get this: when he got asked where he came from, he told the guy doing the interview that he woke up on an uninhabited planet with no idea how he got there."

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To a suspicious guy like Garibaldi, that must be extra-concerning.

And now Jeff looks like I feel. "So… You think someone wiped his mind and then pushed him out an airlock?"

I lean back in my chair, shrugging. "I don't know, Commander. This one's… Weird."

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Oh, they have no idea. I wonder if the Speaker would be willing to tell them the truth if pressed...

"Do you want my authorization to bring him in for questioning?"

"And ask him what?" I shake my head. "Whether he's telling the truth or not, he's just gunna give us the same story. No, what I'd like you to do is request that the Justice Department confirm whether they lost him or not. That needs to come from the commanding officer."

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Of course, the fact they won't know what the B5 team is talking about will put a cat amongst the pigeons, not that they'll say that.

"Okay." He nods. "Anything else?"

"Well, if he is a spy, and he's one of ours, I need to stop investigating. Now, I can send a request to Earthforce Intelligence, but if you do it they might actually answer."

"Just say we may have found one of their agents and ask if they want us to back off?"

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That would at least be reassuringly believable...

"Yeah. Because a disappearing telepath? No one's stupid enough to try kidnapping a telepath for ransom. She didn't have any enemies and there were no signs of violence. That doesn't say 'attack' to me. That says 'telepath underground' and 'she went voluntarily'."

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Which means Psi Corps will be up in arms. And likely demanding 'Matthew Underwood' be brought in for questioning yesterday.

Jeff thinks about that for a moment. "Lyta was a member of Psi Corps."

"Yeah, well, maybe she saw something she didn't like. She was going to Earth 'cause she got ordered to, right? Maybe it was something to do with that? Whatever else she saw while she was poking around Kosh's mind? I dunno. Guess I just wanted someone else to share my frustration."

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Ah, closer to the truth than they realise. Yet so far away without the right clues.

Jeff nods, then thinks for a moment. "Is he still on the station?"

"Shipping out for Minbar tomorrow."

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Which is also probably ringing alarm bells for Garibaldi.

"What for?"

"Tourism. Ambassador Delenn signed off on his visa personally."

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Big alarm bells.

"Is he coming back?"

"Nothing's filed, but his lease on his quarters in Brown Sector is paid up for another eight months." Aaaah. "And that's the other thing. He owns his own ship."

"His own ship?"

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Man, they are so suspicious of him now.

"Yeah. Bought it off the narn government. Personal yacht. It's moored outside the station now. Which…" I shake my head. "I don't know what it means, because I can't think of a way for someone who's been through death of personality to make enough money to buy it the regular way, and I can't think of anything he could have done for Ambassador G'kar to get it as a reward."

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But someone acting as a special agent for someone else... Yes, I can totally see the dots he's connecting.

"Okay. I'll get those information requests filed, and you can decide if you wanna investigate any further. And…" He nods to himself. "Let me know when he comes back. I think I should have a talk with him myself."

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Oh, this will be a meeting for the ages.

Ah, the joy of seeing Garibaldi and Sinclair seeing a few of the pieces, but jamming them together into completely the wrong shape based on their own assumptions and prejudices. And touching base with Earth Government is going to get all kinds of attention onto 'Matthew Underwood', not all of it good.

 

[BR549]

Ooof. That's an actual criminal sentence in this era?

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It is.

Psi Corps uses it for their own purposes, of course.

Ah, the outlook of the cynical man. If you start from the worst possible point, anything after becomes an improvement.

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I'm sure Garibaldi would observe that he'd be less cynical if the universe didn't continually prove his cynicism right.

And touching base with Earth Government is going to get all kinds of attention onto 'Matthew Underwood', not all of it good.

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And when (not if; the station staff is, unavoidedly, riddled with moles for EarthGov, Psi Corps, and various other factions legit and otherwise) the bit about his apparent snatching of Lyta gets out, Psi Corps will indeed very much want his head.
Which means Mr. Bester likely looking into things personally.

And since Alfred Bester was played by Walter Koenig, the local Paul's reaction to Evil Checkov the Psi Cop will be amusing.

 

[BoML]

4th April 2258
10:09 Station Time
Michael Garibaldi

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Ah, we get Michael's perspective. And it was well done, full marks.

There are some events that Babylon!Paul would be of immense help, though some of the stuff would be...ridiculously trivial to him. I am more curious about his opinions about the events and the consequences thereof, and others reaction to those opinions.

And it seems that his talk with Delenn went without a hitch, if she approved the visa...practically immediately.

 

[Rebu]

John chuckles. "Not everyone's so jaded-."

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His name i' Jeff

 

[Vaermina]

The fact that they were allies in the first place is kinda a massive hint that even if they weren't equals in the tech department, they were still extremely advanced.

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No, it means they were "mature" enough to be acceptable to Ancient standards.

It's still incredibly advanced and better than Minbari tech.

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Feel free to name technology, that doesn't rely on differing laws of physics, that they had that was more advanced then the Minbari.

Yeah, and they've still had the ability to go fully digital, but decided not to.

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They actually don't have that ability, Narn's technology is incredibly skewed because its all things they purchased or reverse engineered.

And did they use such a thing during the architects time?

And if they did, what's to stop Matthew from just making something like that, given the fact that we've seen power rings be able to make things that range from fully organic bodies for intelligent beings, to anti-matter?

Click to shrink...

The Architect has only been dead for 200 years...

The Minbari were fighting a space war, against the Shadows, a thousand years ago.

By the way, you have a much higher bar now given all the proof Matthew hasn't even done the minimum effort in covering his trail so far.

Apart from the fact that he clearly thought I wouldn't recognise a sonic stunner, not really. Too earnest. Way too earnest.

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This is kind of hilarious, like, did he just think everyone was too stupid to figure out his story was bullshit?

"No birth records, no tax records, no school records, nothing. He's got medical records from a check-up he had in med-bay, and that's it. As far as any record I can find says, he just appeared out of nowhere a few days before she went missing."

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That is an almost impressive lack of effort.

 

[PeriodicPedant]

Pretty good going, Garibaldi.

Jeff walks in. "Michael, you wanted to see me?"

"Yeah." I press a couple of buttons and put the picture my guys took of 'Michael Underwood' up on the monitor. "This is Michael Underwood. Stopped an attack on a minbari poet yesterday by some nutjobs who think the War's still going on."

Jeff nods, and I press the button and move to the next image. "And this was taken just before Lyta Alexandra left the station."

Michael Underwood and Lyta Alexandra

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First Michael is correct.
All the others should be 'Matthew'.
And: Lyta Alexander, unless I'm missing something.

 

[Mr Zoat]

'Jeff'
'ours'
'Minbar'

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Thank you, corrected.

Someone other than the Egyptian god of hanging over your bed, at least.

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Garibaldi never called him that.

First Michael is correct.
All the others should be 'Matthew'.
And: Lyta Alexander, unless I'm missing something.

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Thank you, corrected.

Ah, security cameras caught the 'fight', eh?

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No, he just recognised it. Garibaldi is a Chief Warrant Officer. He's seen all kinds of weapon wounds.

 

[BR549]

Garibaldi never called him that.

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But Zack did, and Zack is a cooler dude than Michael, so...

 

[Darko]

No, it means they were "mature" enough to be acceptable to Ancient standards

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You do realize that by those standards anyone they would consider to be mature would basically have to build cold fusion reactors as a high school science project.

Feel free to name technology, that doesn't rely on differing laws of physics, that they had that was more advanced then the Minbari

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Hmm, everything.

Ohh, and before I forgot, power rings were also able to copy Cooperative tech, like Rocket's belt.

They actually don't have that ability, Narn's technology is incredibly skewed because its all things they purchased or reverse engineered

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We've seen them use computers.

Once you're able to have and use those, digitizing things isn't some arcane rite.

The Architect has only been dead for 200 years...

The Minbari were fighting a space war, against the Shadows, a thousand years ago

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And?

Did Minbari use crystal paper 200 years ago, or did they still use paper for some things?

And what would stop the architect from using it, even if others used a different method?

And why wouldn't Matthew be able to just fabricate the necessary materials.

By the way, you have a much higher bar now given all the proof Matthew hasn't even done the minimum effort in covering his trail so far

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This is kind of hilarious, like, did he just think everyone was too stupid to figure out his story was bullshit?

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That is an almost impressive lack of effort.

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Why would he need a better cover story?

He doesn't really have anything to do with humanity, since there don't seem to be any human souls.

He doesn't really need a job, since with the ring he's basically self-sustaining.

He has a ship to live on, and it wouldn't be that difficult to imagine that some of the alien governments would let him live on their worlds.

Most people also don't, and can't, do background checks on anyone they think is suspicious, so he doesn't really have much to fear.

The ambassadors he spoke to may have the resources to check his background, but the fact that he doesn't have one isn't going to be surprising.

Thus is a guy that has a bunch of ghosts inside him and is helping them achieve peace. The fact that they can't find a birth certificate isn't going to be weirdest thing about him.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Thus is a guy that has a bunch of ghosts inside him and is helping them achieve peace. The fact that they can't find a birth certificate isn't going to be weirdest thing about him.

Click to shrink...

They could find a birth certificate, but it would be for someone who died two hundred years ago as an old man.

 

[Darko]

Ambassador G'kar to get it as a reward.

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"G'Kar"

The second letter should be capitalized in a Narn name.

 

[Vaermina]

You do realize that by those standards anyone they would consider to be mature would basically have to build cold fusion reactors as a high school science project.

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You're confusing the Nox with Linea.

Hmm, everything.

Ohh, and before I forgot, power rings were also able to copy Cooperative tech, like Rocket's belt.

Click to shrink...

So nothing, got it.

We've seen them use computers.

Once you're able to have and use those, digitizing things isn't some arcane rite.

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In 1951 people at MiT were also using computers, that doesn't mean they were widely available to the public.

And?

Did Minbari use crystal paper 200 years ago, or did they still use paper for some things?

And what would stop the architect from using it, even if others used a different method?

And why wouldn't Matthew be able to just fabricate the necessary materials.

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If you want to claim they didn't, that's up to you to prove.

Just like if you want to keep claiming he can flawlessly fabricate a fake beyond the Minbari's ability to detect, that's up to you to prove.

But of course given you weren't even willing to do the bare minimum and find out what sort of writing medium the Minbari actually use, I'm not holding up much hope.

Why would he need a better cover story?

He doesn't really have anything to do with humanity, since there don't seem to be any human souls.

He doesn't really need a job, since with the ring he's basically self-sustaining.

He has a ship to live on, and it wouldn't be that difficult to imagine that some of the alien governments would let him live on their worlds.

Most people also don't, and can't, do background checks on anyone they think is suspicious, so he doesn't really have much to fear.

The ambassadors he spoke to may have the resources to check his background, but the fact that he doesn't have one isn't going to be surprising.

Thus is a guy that has a bunch of ghosts inside him and is helping them achieve peace. The fact that they can't find a birth certificate isn't going to be weirdest thing about him.

Click to shrink...

He needed a better cover story, and to cover his tracks, because minimizing notice like that has only up sides and not doing so has a lot of potential down sides.

If he had given himself an identity Garibaldi probably would have just chalked the whole thing up to Paul trying to hide his illegal weapon or having a thing for Minbari women.

If he had covered his tracks with Lyta, Psicorp probably would have chalked the whole thing up to false memories planted by the Telepath underground.

Instead, we have him acting like a Self Insert that thinks nothing in the universe can harm him, except even a cursory check would have shown there are a lot of things in the universe that can potentially harm him.

 

[Darko]

You're confusing the Nox with Linea.

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No, I'm just thinking that any race the Alterans consider to be "mature" would have to have advanced tech, to the point that Linea's little cold fusion fungus would look like a science fair project.

So nothing, got it.

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Except for the things I've mentioned, and the things we've seen said tech do, that range from genetic engineering, dimensional travel, AI, flight, energy manipulation, etc.

In 1951 people at MiT were also using computers, that doesn't mean they were widely available to the public

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Why would them not being available to the public stop them from digitizing things?

Especially since their culture was severely harmed by the Centauri during the first occupation, so they may want to preserve as much of it as possible.

And you do realize that your little statement can also apply to the average Minbari citizen?

If you want to claim they didn't, that's up to you to prove

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And it's up to you to prove that they'd use those methods during the architects time, and that she'd use those methods?

People can use archaic means of doing something even when more advanced options are available.

Heck, some fans once asked JMS why they sometimes see black and white photos being used by humans, even though they've had the means to create colored photographs for centuries, and he answered that it's purely for artistic reasons, kinda like how we still utilize black and white photos today.

Just like if you want to keep claiming he can flawlessly fabricate a fake beyond the Minbari's ability to detect, that's up to you to prove

Click to shrink...

We've seen power rings create far more interesting things.

But of course given you weren't even willing to do the bare minimum and find out what sort of writing medium the Minbari actually use, I'm not holding up much hope

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You criticizing someone for not providing evidence is just hilarious.

He needed a better cover story, and to cover his tracks, because minimizing notice like that has only up sides and not doing so has a lot of potential down sides.

If he had given himself an identity Garibaldi probably would have just chalked the whole thing up to Paul trying to hide his illegal weapon or having a thing for Minbari women.

If he had covered his tracks with Lyta, Psicorp probably would have chalked the whole thing up to false memories planted by the Telepath underground.

Instead, we have him acting like a Self Insert that thinks nothing in the universe can harm him, except even a cursory check would have shown there are a lot of things in the universe that can potentially harm him

Click to shrink...

Why would he fear Garibaldi or Psi Corp?

Garibaldi is competent, but he's not Batman levels of dangerous.

Psi Corp may give him some trouble, but they'd have to get past the souls he has in him, at least one of which was a telepath.

And so far he hasn't encountered anything that can meaningfully harm him, so him not being scared of everything he sees like you want him to be is complete natural.

And how exactly is he supposed to do a cursory check?

And why would he even think that there's anything to check?

The only soul that has extensive insider knowledge on the First Ones is the Drakh, and he's obviously more than a bit crazy.

The only things that may stand a chance at hurting him are First One in nature, and their tech may be advanced enough to hide from casual scans, or there isn't any left since most of them left the galaxy, or it's degraded over time.

According to you, power rings are worthless trinkets, but now you're complaining that he doesn't use the worthless trinket to scan for things that you don't believe he can scan for.

 

[Mr Zoat]

"G'Kar"

The second letter should be capitalized in a Narn name.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Vaermina]

No, I'm just thinking that any race the Alterans consider to be "mature" would have to have advanced tech, to the point that Linea's little cold fusion fungus would look like a science fair project.

Click to shrink...

No? Maturity in Stargate includes spiritual understanding, not just technological advancement.

Except for the things I've mentioned, and the things we've seen said tech do, that range from genetic engineering, dimensional travel, AI, flight, energy manipulation, etc.

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You just named a bunch of things the Minbari are proven as having in the show/movies.

Genetic engineering is how they make their organic technology, dimensional travel is literally the method they use for FTL, AI showed up in the Legend of the Rangers, and you hilariously seem to have forgotten those rings in Delenn's hidden cabinet.

Why would them not being available to the public stop them from digitizing things?

Especially since their culture was severely harmed by the Centauri during the first occupation, so they may want to preserve as much of it as possible.

And you do realize that your little statement can also apply to the average Minbari citizen?

Click to shrink...

Feel free to show the Minbari doing it then, I will wait.

And it's up to you to prove that they'd use those methods during the architects time, and that she'd use those methods?

People can use archaic means of doing something even when more advanced options are available.

Heck, some fans once asked JMS why they sometimes see black and white photos being used by humans, even though they've had the means to create colored photographs for centuries, and he answered that it's purely for artistic reasons, kinda like how we still utilize black and white photos today.

Click to shrink...

No, it's up to you as you're the one that started making the claim.

We've seen power rings create far more interesting things.

Click to shrink...

Being able to create a thing =/= that it can pass as authentic to a technologically advanced civilization.

You criticizing someone for not providing evidence is just hilarious.

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And yet I'm the one that's being doing it these last conversations while you dodge around it.

Why would he fear Garibaldi or Psi Corp?

Garibaldi is competent, but he's not Batman levels of dangerous.

Click to shrink...

Garibaldi is part of Earth Force, and Earth Force as an organization is a potential danger to him.

Psi Corp may give him some trouble, but they'd have to get past the souls he has in him, at least one of which was a telepath.

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Those souls have shown no ability to impede psychics, and one being a telepath is generally meaningless because telepathy is a biological function not a soul based one.

Which means a P12 could pop his brain like an overripe grape.

And so far he hasn't encountered anything that can meaningfully harm him, so him not being scared of everything he sees like you want him to be is complete natural.

And how exactly is he supposed to do a cursory check?

And why would he even think that there's anything to check?

The only soul that has extensive insider knowledge on the First Ones is the Drakh, and he's obviously more than a bit crazy.

The only things that may stand a chance at hurting him are First One in nature, and their tech may be advanced enough to hide from casual scans, or there isn't any left since most of them left the galaxy, or it's degraded over time.[/quote[
Except the Vorlon's, who he had to run away from.

And a cursory check is easy, it's called a public datanet which Babylon 5 has, and which would have at least given him a run down of the type of things he needs to watch out for.

According to you, power rings are worthless trinkets, but now you're complaining that he doesn't use the worthless trinket to scan for things that you don't believe he can scan for.

Click to shrink...

Nope, that's according to you, because I never said anything of the sort.

Click to shrink...

 

[The Unaligned Player]

@Darko
Mate if you're legitimately trying to convince Vaermina, I feel obligated to recommend ya stop. They will not be persuaded.

 

[Jankl]

@Darko
Mate if you're legitimately trying to convince Vaermina, I feel obligated to recommend ya stop. They will not be persuaded.

Click to shrink...

Somebody has to hold the weight of the sky for all our sakes, lest we all be crushed by the genius that is Vaermina.

 

[Darko]

? Maturity in Stargate includes spiritual understanding, not just technological advancement.

Click to shrink...

Except it also includes advanced tech.

You just named a bunch of things the Minbari are proven as having in the show/movies.

Genetic engineering is how they make their organic technology, dimensional travel is literally the method they use for FTL, AI showed up in the Legend of the Rangers

Click to shrink...

So given the fact that we've seen power rings be able to scan, copy and manipulate such tech, then Minbari tech shouldn't give him much trouble.

and you hilariously seem to have forgotten those rings in Delenn's hidden cabinet.

Click to shrink...

No, we were talking about them not too long ago, and I pointed out how they're a poor man's power ring.

Being able to create a thing =/= that it can pass as authentic to a technologically advanced civilization.

Click to shrink...

You do realize he has a piece of tech that can easily pass as magic on his finger, and that said tech is incredibly versatile and powerful.

Garibaldi is part of Earth Force, and Earth Force as an organization is a potential danger to him.

Click to shrink...

How?

Garibaldi isn't the supreme leader of their armies, and there's not really anything that they can do to him that he couldn't defend himself against, or just run away.

Those souls have shown no ability to impede psychics, and one being a telepath is generally meaningless because telepathy is a biological function not a soul based one

Click to shrink...

Except the Narn telepath said that he can still read minds.

Oh, and you might want to fix your last statement, since you have been consistently saying that power rings are worthless since the story began.

@Darko
Mate if you're legitimately trying to convince Vaermina, I feel obligated to recommend ya stop. They will not be persuaded.

Click to shrink...

I think it's important someone call them out, or at least leave a statement as to why they're wrong.

Otherwise someone that's reading what they write will think that they actually have a point.

 

[Mr Zoat]

7th October 2013
21:38 GMT -5

I knock on the door to Catherine's office. I know she said that I could see her the moment I get here, but-

The door is wrenched open

"…happy to set something up, but our-" Catherine appears in the doorway, beckoning me inside as she talks on her phone headset. "-inventor isn't on Earth right now." I walk inside as she returns to her desk. "Of course I will. Speak to you later, Mark."

She ends the call, puts the headset down on her desk and then sits down heavily.

"Orange Lantern… How did you forget about this?"

"Well, I-" I shrug. "-didn't have the same relationship with Atlantis or KordTech back when I came up with it that I have now. I didn't make the link to Alzheimer's, so I was only really thinking about it in terms of anti-telepath technology or maybe normal forgetfulness. So I just dumped the design in the database, wrote up a summary and stopped thinking about it."

"And you've been using it ever since?"

"Whenever I'm in one of my heavier armour suits. My power ring prevents me forgetting things, so it's really only there in case someone tries to telepathically remove my memories again and that's never come up."

She nods slowly, staring blankly forwards.

"Why has this come up now?"

"Senator Moretti spoke to the press about it."

"Really?" I frown. "Why now?"

"He was complaining about the delays in getting F.D.A. approval."

"How long has anyone been trying to get approval for?"

"I'm not sure. I didn't know about this until today either."

"Getting approved for the purple healing ray didn't take very long."

She focuses on me. "The purple healing ray has a clean fifty-year safety record, and doesn't interface with the human brain." She then makes a circle with her right hand. "And it probably didn't hurt that you were actively putting your weight behind it."

"Huh, okay." Wait. This isn't a Ghost in the Shell thing, is it? The whole reason why The Laughing Man was able to find out about the suppression of the micromachine treatment for cyberbrain sclerosis -which actually worked, unlike the common drug treatments- was because the same government officials who prevented it getting licensed used it themselves because they knew that it worked. "This… Might just be me being a huge cynic, but-."

"Antonia Monetti. Senior."

My eyes widen. "Oh whaw. Just be check, I was about to ask if anyone with the power to get a trial approved needed an Alzheimer's cure."

"I know. And Senator Monetti doesn't have control over anything like that, but he knows people, and he almost certainly had someone looking into you since you started training his daughter."

"Makes sense. So… Was someone suppressing the technology, or did his investigator just bring it to his attention?"

"I don't know, and frankly I don't have the time to find out. Are you available for interviews over the next couple of days?"

The nice thing about being able to move just about anywhere instantly is that I can completely skip travel time. If I know that I have to be in a particular place at a particular time I can turn up exactly at that time and not a moment sooner.

"Certainly. Just let me know when."

"Orange Lantern, I've seen-"

"You can use my name."

"-the aftermath of your interactions with the press."

"And I'm sorry about all the extra work I've given you. But this is an Alzheimer's treatment which I haven't done any work on for years. I'm basically going to be saying nice things about the development team, how much I hope it helps people and… That's it. Might bring up my Nan, but… I don't really see how it can go wrong."

She sighs.

"Paul, a specialist medical interviewer might actually limit themselves to the… 'Eye drive'-. Why did you call it that?"

"It's a defictionalisation."

She looks blank.

"I got the idea from the television series 'Doctor Who'. There was an alien species that made it impossible to think about them unless you were looking at one of them. In order to actually work with people, they gave their allies a par of glasses which incorporated a memory backup that their ability didn't wipe. A… Drive that they wore over their eyes. It doesn't actually have to be a pair of glasses, but part of it does have to be worn next to the head."

"Oh… Kay, plenty of inventors have been inspired by works of fiction. Does your version resemble the device in Doctor Who?"

"No, not-. Well, I built one that does because that was what I was going for, but the blueprint I sent to the commercial development people is pared right down. It just looks like a box and a strap. And I don't think the B.B.C. would sue over an Alzheimer's treatment."

"Did you invent the whole thing yourself?"

"No, just putting together bits of existing technology. The interface comes from Hartford Jackson's Thinking Cap, and the memory storage is something I got from Thomas Morrow's advanced robots. Add a few bits and pieces from wherever I could scavenge them…"

"Anything you got from other planets?"

"No, this was before I could leave Earth. I didn't even get Green Lantern Two Eight One Four A's database until Christmas."

"Is your use of these technologies as a form of memory backup an original application?"

"A-h… Morrow created an android based on himself with his own memories, but I don't think he ever tried to improve his own mental acuity by cybernetically augmenting himself. Jackson definitely didn't."

"Are there any problems with the device?"

"Not that I know about. It's never caused any problems for me, but I didn't test it to a level that would be required for a licence."

"But-. Do you mean to tell me that you plugged it into your brain without testing it?"

"I tested it enough to know that it worked. Thinker's Cap technology was tested in the field extensively, and other than being a bit fragile when built with nineteen fifties components there weren't any problems." Though… "I could ask Doctor Morrow to double-check, if it would make things better?"

"I thought he was dead."

"No, just not alive. He's a construct, but his personality appeared to be intact. Albeit the personality he had as a very old man, rather than the one he had when he was younger."

"You should do that. You should have done that two years ago."

"I… Maybe. For me it doesn't really matter because my ring could just reset my body, but… Alright. I'd probably have done that if I was actually going to do anything else with it."

"Okay. Do that…" She checks the clock. "Tomorrow, and I'll contact you when I've set the interview up."

"Okay-."

"And before the interview happens, we're going to do a practice run. I'm not letting you anywhere near a microphone unprepared."

 

[Darko]

happy to set something up, but our-" Catherine appear in the doorway

Click to shrink...

"appears"

Senator Moretti spoke to the press about it."

Click to shrink...

Oh boy.

I'm guessing if he's going to play some part in this episode then it's going to involve the treatment being used for mind control, either by the Light or the Badland worms.

about the delays is getting F.D.A. approval."

Click to shrink...

"in getting"

Orange Lantern, I've seen-"

"Paul's fine."

Click to shrink...

So he can finally say just name?

If he can't then the name part should be in orange, to show that it's the ring saying it.

"-the aftermath of your interactions with the press

Click to shrink...

Less interaction and more trainwreck.

but… I don't really see how it can go wrong."

Click to shrink...

You will.

Well, I build one that does

Click to shrink...

"built"

his own mental acuity but cybernetically augmenting himself

Click to shrink...

"acuity by"

But-. Do you mean to tell me that you plugged it into your brain without testing it?"

Click to shrink...

Wouldn't be the first time a version of him has done something like that.

Renegade, Tangseid, Sybarite, etc.