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What are your most hated fanfic tropes

Charon said:
Multiverse theory is a thing, and people are capable of comprehending it without losing their marbles. And even without that, no one ever thinks to couch it in terms of "I clearly remember this, I don't know how true every memory is but the stuff about the future is panning out so far" or somesuch, which isn't the worst thing but it annoys me I've never seen anyone think to do that even if only to dismiss the idea for some reason.
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Heh, reminds me of an old dead Worm fanfic where the protagonist told the canon characters he'd read about their world as a work of fiction, and they came to the conclusion that he was a delusional precognitive interpreting his future sight as memories of reading about Earth Bet in another world.
 
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EmailAddress said:
I remember old oneshot where lesson learned from Voldemort war was to execute everyone sorted into Slytherin.
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humon said:
Kill 'em all and let the hat sort 'em out.
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Now that I think about it... I've never done any videos with AI, but now I kind of want to see one where the kids in the first movie are putting on the hat, and when Malfoy puts it on, the hat gets this really mean sadistic face and electrocutes him, or drains his soul or something like that. Like something a mind flayer would do. Leaves him as a burnt out shriveled husk lying on the floor of the grand hall while all the other kids look on in horror. The ginger kid is like, "Umm, sorry gov, I changed me mind, I'ma go to me local school instead". Then you get a close-up shot of Dumbledore looking stern, and the big doors loudly close behind everyone, locking everyone inside the hall.

"Continue with the sorting"
 
humon said:
but now I kind of want to see one where the kids in the first movie are putting on the hat, and when Malfoy puts it on, the hat gets this really mean sadistic face and electrocutes him, or drains his soul or something like that. Like something a mind flayer would do. Leaves him as a burnt out shriveled husk lying on the floor of the grand hall while all the other kids look on in horror.
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It eats him. Just sucks his head in and then the rest of the body while making chewing motions as he flails and struggles until there's nothing left but the Hat. Then it emits a loud burp.
 
The reason the Slytherins die fic was so freaky is the hat has no idea. Everyone else knows, it doesn't understand the fuss.
There's also devil take the hindmost, I think both of those are Blot.
 
1. Inserting 21st century first world morals into Xianxia. The whole "cultivators are savages, look at me so kind" just turns me off entirely.
2. "Don't like Don't read" tag makes the Author comes off as edgy
3. Telling characters they are fictional and making them go through existential crisis. Top tier cringe
 
Arythios said:
9: Self Inserts being silently smug about having canon foreknowledge
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Remembers me of a comment I did.

"I am BIG BALLS GOD ABOVE PLOT LOL, suck MAH BALLS."
This guy is so worried about farming aura like that that he will miss girls in love, life, food and drinks.

All just so he can farm aura and be smug about it.
 
Novelvampire said:
1. Inserting 21st century first world morals into Xianxia. The whole "cultivators are savages, look at me so kind" just turns me off entirely.
2. "Don't like Don't read" tag makes the Author comes off as edgy
3. Telling characters they are fictional and making them go through existential crisis. Top tier cringe
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Number 1 shares a lot of issues with stories that treat the ancient world as being only sticks and stones without any form of technology and culture.

In a xianxia world, they don't acknowledge anything running on magical energy as technology or how peasants don't have the latest Xian Phone 18.
https://i.redd.it/41fdkldp38sh1.png
 
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This is not exactly a trope, but I've seen some authors who use CAPITAL LETTERS to remark some words and make it sound more IMPORTANT they are.

I really dislike this. As well as the cursed words and the colours.
 
Ugh, so I'll try to keep this semi-brief (utterly failed, will spoiler), but I'll be going over a few tropes I loathe with the intensity of a millions stars, so we'll see.

Some backstory, one of the really old fanfics from back in my day updated (I'm talking, I was reading this probably nearly a full decade ago) and I reread it. As one does, you notice the flaws much more clearly this go around, but because the author was clearly not experienced, because they were visibly improving and because it was a source of nostalgia for me, I could give it a pass for a lot.

Then I got to Chapter 48, and man did my blood pressure spike.

So, it's a Harry Potter fic, Second Year during the relevant arc. Lucius Malfoy tried to AK Harry because he freed Dobby, Dobby stops him. Harry challenges Malfoy to a public duel over the attempt (before anyone focuses on the duel and the nobility aspect, I don't really care about how everyone else hates the noble houses trope. I genuinely don't understand why people find it implausible and I just assume Magical children develop faster than Non-Magical. Also, this Harry has a Sorcerer Supreme style mantle and artifacts that boost his power [which will be relevant later] so I have no trouble with him being as strong as he is. There are other, much more powerful enemies in this story).

The duel is at a Ministry (Winter?) Ball/Gala, and it goes pretty normally. Harry beats the brakes off of Lucius, letting him get back up again and again, increasing in spell lethality constantly, to get put right back down. At one point, Harry goes, "Alright, it's clear this isn't going to change, call the match."

In response, Lucius loses it and AKs Harry twice, which doesn't affect him because of one of those aforementioned artifacts. The Aurors start breaking the wards boxing in the two down (which is absolutely an oversight on the author's part, they would certainly have a central point of failure that they can just pull like a frayed string) but in that time, Lucius turns and tries to AK Susan Bones (who was the victim of the diary this time).

So, Harry ices him. Literally. Frozen solid.

He goes home and Amelia Bones follows, talks to him and goes, "It was an official duel and he not just tried, but did AK you, you're legally fine. But how do you feel?" To which Harry goes, "I don't feel anything."

Now, to defend this particular trope. One, this Harry was abused a little more, and then once he was chosen for his mantle he kinda went a little crazy and terrorized the Dursleys. As a result, the familiar that came with that mantle locked away his ability to feel his emotions beyond a moderate baseline, for years. As such, he's greatly emotionally stunted, as well as being just a colder, more severe personality. Beyond the point, I just hate the trope of having to be deeply traumatized and guilty after every kill. Nah, if I went back in time and popped a cap in the skull of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kissinger or any of a hundred million bastards that were just as evil if not as consequential, I'd be hitting the Macarena over their corpse, not sobbing over the inherent sanctity of human life or some bullshit.

Anyway, this lasts until he has a Dueling session with Flitwick, who is his Dueling Master (and Head of House). Flitwick fucking trashes Harry, literally spells him flat on his back, unconscious and the second he stand back up it's on. He gives the typical angered mysterious teacher response of "Find me when you figured out what you did wrong." Another scene with someone else lets Harry "figure it out."

What he did wrong, apparently, is that he toyed with Lucius rather than ending him immediately when he had the chance, and that by driving Lucius to the brink Harry is somehow responsible for Lucius attempting to murder two separate children, invalidating Harry's moral justification for killing him? I don't quite know how describe it, because it makes no sense to me, but like how undercover cops can't offer you the opportunity to do a crime, then arrest you for doing that crime. Entrapment is the legal term.

Basically, he entrapped Lucious and so he had no moral justification to kill him.

Like I said, makes no sense.

But wait, there's more!

So, the author is not satisfied with merely this shitshow, no, no, no. Earlier in the story, Harry (in disguise) fought an Eldritch Abomination, nicknamed Mephistopheles, related to his mantle. Because it showed up early, when the Spirits of his predecessors should still be holding the fort down, so to speak, while he grew up, he was not prepared to face it at all, never mind that it was a powerful one.

He managed to win the fight, with the assistance of Dumbledore and an army of the resurrected dead of Hogwarts that he raised, which included Gryffindor and Slytherin. However, the only reason why is that the Mephistopheles didn't take anyone seriously, and a blatant deus ex machina from a very unfriendly figure.

This is the comparison the author uses to get Harry to realize that he toyed with Lucius like Mephistopheles toyed with him. Then he hits it, the line I knew was coming in my bones.

"He was no better than the force that was Mephistopheles."

Brother, WHAT?

One, Mephistopheles was right. Dumbledore prevented Harry from sacrificing himself to send himself and Mephistopheles back beyond the Living World, and that was the ONLY way for them to win that did not involve a malicious cosmic God smashing the square knowledge of advanced magic into the round hole of Harry's grey matter, for it's own plans. Mephistopheles would have won, even while playing around against possibly the greatest magical army assembled since the days of Rome or Genghis Khan.

Two, it's not the same situation???? Mephistopheles was a literal Eldritch Abomination intent on killing Harry, using the metaphysical feedback from his death to rip open a portal to his realm so his King could manifest and kill, literally, every living thing. He played around out of pure malice and arrogance. Harry toyed with Lucius because that was the point. He wanted to grind Lucius into the dirt so he would stop messing with him and establish himself as someone to be feared by Lucius' contemporaries. Putting him down in 5 seconds does not accomplish that like beating him down 20, 30 times, letting him get slowly back up each time. The showmanship is the point, no one approaches every fight, especially a sanctioned Duel with rules, with the same mentality as a fight to the death, with failure meaning the literal Apocalypse.

Three, I deeply, deeply hate this "I was no better than X.." line. At the very least, 98% of the time I see it, it is just blatantly false and tells me the author either never studied or even pondered the basics of ethics, didn't run the idea by someone or just genuinely believes the, frequently, batshit comparisons.

Yes, more is relevant to the moral calculus of a situation than, "Can you make these two things sound similar, if you never gave it more than 5 seconds of thought."

But you see my friends, that is nothing compared to how annoying I found the next trope. And it came, in the same paragraph as the line I quoted.

"It was… truthfully… his fault Lucius was dead. He pushed the man to the brink of madness, and then pulled the trigger. By what right did he claim Judge, Jury and Executioner?"

But wait, there's more!

Continuing the chapter, skipping all but the relevant lines:

"You spat on everything your teacher (Flitwick) taught you. And while you haven't had another Potter to look to, you spat on what your family believes in."…. "You, Harry, should have held yourself to a higher standard than simply toying with Lucius Malfoy. And then you have the gall to claim you felt nothing, nothing in his death."

Harry's internal monologue, speaking about Lucius now:

"He had toyed with the man, he was the reason Lucius was dead. He pushed Lucius that far.

Slime the man might have been, but he had still been alive! A life that was now snuffed out and shuffled off the the afterlife because of Harry! He kept punching the ground. "DAMN IT!" Tears streamed down his face.

He put innocents at risk because of his own ego? What gave him the right to decide who lived and who died!

…

Tears dripped from his face down onto the ground, he spat on Flitwick's teachings. The man had never said anything about finishing a battle as quickly as possible, but it didn't matter*. Harry had spat on the man's teachings.

He had spat on his family legacy."

Oh boy, oh boy.

I pissed myself off, rereading the necessary parts to copy over.

Point by point:

This trope is what I like call, a humbling fetish. So many authors take the advice that your character must struggle and even occasionally be humbled to mean humble them brutally, constantly, no matter how much it deforms the logic of the scene, especially if they've just recently scored a victory. They cannot be happy, they cannot be confident, they cannot be self-assured.

Two, what do you mean it doesn't matter if Flitwick never mentioned it?? How the fuck was Harry supposed to pick that up then, huh? That's even ignoring the fact that Flitwick is just straight up wrong here, and would not have had the impact Harry wanted.

Three, what on earth does spitting on your family legacy mean here? There has been no House Potter code, creed or belief mentioned whatsoever, so how could he have spat on it? Besides, the Potters had already been mentioned as having participated in wars and battle. You think they never toyed with their opponents? You think a Wizard from 1435 was approaching combat as some solemn, serious duty he must end as quickly and honorably as possible? That's fucking nonsensical.

Four, what do you mean you put innocents at risk for your own ego? There were fucking wards around you to prevent any spillover, and the only reason why they wouldn't have worked is that Lucius made the conscious decision to use the Killing Curse, which couldn't be stopped by those wards. How does that translate to Harry putting the audience at risk?

Five, I'm rolling the Judge, Jury and Executioner bit into the "What gave him the right to decide who lived…" because they are the same idea. As for this trope…

Oh I loathe it with a passion. I despise these lines with a caustic, venomous hatred. Reading those lines are the closest I have yet ever gotten to experiencing Hate like AM from I have no Mouth and I Must Scream.

Okay, sub-points about this specific point:

Five point one, it's so nonsensical a question. People do, whether a single person or a society. That's how it's always worked. No divine being ever came down to tell the Allies the Axis were fair game, or the American Colonists that the British were, or literally name ANY conflict. People live their lives, those lives intersect with sometimes competing and opposed interests, whether those interests be financial and resource based or sociocultural/political. At some point, those people decide if those competing interests are worth fighting over, and if they do, they start killing each other. That is all. That's how it's always worked, and always will. Never has the universe deigned to inform us of when and whom we are allowed to kill.

Nothing gives anyone the right except they themselves. It's that simple.

Five point two, there might be repercussions from people, especially those in power, if they don't agree with your use of violence. But all of them, authorities included, are still just people with no divine or ontological authority on the use of violence. The aren't magically more justified if they use violence, they aren't magically skilled in discerning the exact moments violence becomes justified or not, and neither are the lawmakers. They have the benefit of legal teams and being able to slowly draft up laws and consider them, but there is nothing innate to them that makes the calculus different for them. They are all, just people, with human opinions and human motivations and human blindspots. When they decide this or that violence is acceptable, it's not from channeling cosmic truth. It's, quite literally, just their opinion. Why is it then, that the question of what gives you the right is never directed at any institution or authority, but always individual people or groups?

Five point three, and this is the egregious one, is Harry's mantle. I mentioned that I would reveal what it was when it was relevant, right? I wonder what you might have thought it was, but I hope you'll appreciate that I had to not mention it for the sheer irony with this trope. Remember, what gives Harry the right to play Judge, Jury and Executioner, to decide who lives and who dies?

Well, I think the mantle he took up does.

The Mantle of Death, Rider of the Pale Horse, Horseman of the Apocalypse.

Yes, the author had the literal Avatar of Death sobbing and moaning about what gives him the right to decide who lives and who dies.

My brother in Christ, it's in your job description.
 
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Azreales said:
This trope is what I like call, a humbling fetish. So many authors take the advice that your character must struggle and even occasionally be humbled to mean humble them brutally, constantly, no matter how much it deforms the logic of the scene, especially if they've just recently scored a victory. They cannot be happy, they cannot be confident, they cannot be self-assured.
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This is definitely one of those things that pisses me off as well, it's like the author is afraid of their own character being even slightly more confident because it'll somehow come off as arrogance. Sometimes it isn't even that and the author just wants to grind down on the "suffering builds character" bs and has the mc get their ass kicked just for random drama which starts to become really fucking tiring after a while

Anyway, good rant
 
Azreales said:
Five, I'm rolling the Judge, Jury and Executioner bit into the "What gave him the right to decide who lived…" because they are the same idea.
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The only people who unironically believe this nonsense are those who believe victims are not entitled to their own justice. Unfortunately, the modern 'education' system and all its ancillary mechanisms (i.e. media and entertainment) exist almost entirely to create such people.

That said, clarify the context around it for me a bit - is chapter 48 the new update after many years of hiatus? It doesn't sound like it, if there was a whole Mephisto plotline after. Depending on the answer, it might be that the author believed more like you do at first, but has since been brainwashed otherwise ala 'all masculinity is toxic masculinity' and 'we must apologize for greatness.'

Is the author a guy or girl?
 
sewwipvt said:
This is definitely one of those things that pisses me off as well, it's like the author is afraid of their own character being even slightly more confident because it'll somehow come off as arrogance. Sometimes it isn't even that and the author just wants to grind down on the "suffering builds character" bs and has the mc get their ass kicked just for random drama which starts to become really fucking tiring after a while

Anyway, good rant
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Ah yes, the dreaded "character development". Make MC do stupidly insane shit to the point where there is nowhere to go but up and call it development. And if you point it out that means you surely want Xianxia murderous pshyco as an MC.
 
Arythios said:
20: When a self insert, instead of telling people they're an SI, comes up with a backstory so ridiculous and convoluted that they frankly should have just told the truth.
21: When the author gives their MC something particularly OP, be it powers or resources, establishes the MC as smart and competent, and then they genuinely fail to use them properly. Not an issue if the MC is supposed to start inexperienced or get set back, however.
22: The author's notes at the beginning or end of the first chapter is whining about how stupid the setting is.
23: This one's a bit more vague, but sometimes you just see the SI/OCs name and you just know they're insufferable.
24: In a story where there is an entirely different group of people in the government, or it's set far in the future, the author decides to add a rant about a real-life modern political figure. I once found a Stargate/Mass Effect fic that managed to check both versions of this, where a chapter started with O'Neill and Shepard casually talking about how Obama was an evil traitor who was executed in both their timelines. Also, there was a third Obama in the room with them whining about how they were being mean, for some fucking reason.
25: I've already mentioned crossovers where one side gets shit on, but I also don't care for crossovers where one side is aggressively OP but shouldn't be. Like, not talking 'superman in Worm', he's OP there, that makes sense. I'm talking shit like, 'The UNSC ends up in 40K and effortlessly dogwalks the setting'. They are not doing that.
26: I mentioned this in the 'spot if the writer is right-wing', but I hate it when I see 'xeno' getting used in a fanfic when its not a term used in canon. That's not a term used in Halo, or Mass Effect, or Star Wars, or most other works of fiction, and it's usually a precursor to obnoxious anti-alien saber-rattling and the worst kinds of HFY.
27: SIs/OCs that are way too young to be badass warriors, but somehow are. It's one thing to have a 10-year-old be a super-intelligent hacker or something via the magic of fiction, but being a soldier/warrior/fighter of somekind is much more SOD-breaking.
28: When an SI is inserted and then immediately starts acting like they know exactly what to do, without any panic or confusion. This is less of an issue if they got inserted on purpose.
29: When a crossover nerfs one setting to a ridiculous degree, 'for balance'. A minor nerf is fine though.

Feel like i'm going to end up overlapping bullet points at this rate, if I haven't already done it.
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30: Unless the setting of the fanfic has something significant to do with gender, if I see "Male MC" or "Male SI" in the title of all places, my experience is that there's some incel shit going on.
31: If the MC spaces out for a flashback or vision multiple times in a chapter, it annoys me greatly. If it happens in multiple chapters, I'm gone. I don't care if it's how their abilities work, it's annoying.
32: worm fics where Greg is the MC. I know there's a trend where works of fiction that feature a girl who fights as the MC usually have a lot of fanfics where the less-capable guy friend gets a power boost and narrative focus (Xander from Buffy, Jaune from RWBY, etc), and those are often weird power fantasies to begin with, but Greg isn't even that guy. Taylor doesn't even consider him a friend in canon. He only appears in like three chapters, is only relevant in two, and his only purpose is to think he's going to be Taylor's Xander only to get shot down.
33: NSFW power fantasies (like the ones on this site) where the MC/SI is just a total piece of shit. I have seen some truly horrendous things in these fics (one of the first fanfics I read on QQ, I dropped at the end of the first chapter when the SI, after spending his entire time being passive and assessing his situation, stabs two children to death and laughs because one of them was rude to him and no one was watching), and brother, that better not be an accurate representation of yourself, that motherfucker deserves to be put down like a rabid dog.
 
sewwipvt said:
This is definitely one of those things that pisses me off as well, it's like the author is afraid of their own character being even slightly more confident because it'll somehow come off as arrogance. Sometimes it isn't even that and the author just wants to grind down on the "suffering builds character" bs and has the mc get their ass kicked just for random drama which starts to become really fucking tiring after a while

Anyway, good rant
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Yup, it's one of those tropes that can absolutely ruin a good story.

And I'm not averse at all to struggle, I think it's vital, even if it's minor personal struggle and not the fate of the world, for just about every genre.

But, and I sincerely think this is either a youth thing or really just a comfortable life thing, you don't have to be wallowing and angsting to be in the struggle. I'm never going to act like I had a particularly rough childhood, but I did have a lot of contributing factors that lead to depression. I don't sit and bitch and moan about my problems nonstop, I can go days without really even thinking about it. It's always there if I ever focus on it, but it's the subtle and ever-present feeling of being mired that encapsulates my depression. There might be rough patches, but it's not 24/7. It can't be, the human brain can't handle it (as attested to by those no longer with us).

That's what I think a lot don't get about making their characters struggle. It's better if it's not front and center constantly, and best even if they have time to enjoy themselves in the midst of the struggle, because that's what people do. It's also less of a concentrated dose of angst for the reader.

Also, SO many people are absolutely allergic now to any MC that isn't back of the head scratching*, "I'm not that strong, I'm not that special, I'm just a regular guy."

*: (I legitimately hate this tic authors use and I don't quite know why.)

Especially because the personality of a "regular guy" used so often is in the shape of a normal person, but with all of the actual interesting bits and rough edges that make a person unique scooped out like a fly post-spidering. The emotional and narrative equivalent to those completely featureless, cold plastic mannequins.

Thanks!

Karmic Acumen said:
The only people who unironically believe this nonsense are those who believe victims are not entitled to their own justice. Unfortunately, the modern 'education' system and all its ancillary mechanisms (i.e. media and entertainment) exist almost entirely to create such people.

That said, clarify the context around it for me a bit - is chapter 48 the new update after many years of hiatus? It doesn't sound like it, if there was a whole Mephisto plotline after. Depending on the answer, it might be that the author believed more like you do at first, but has since been brainwashed otherwise ala 'all masculinity is toxic masculinity' and 'we must apologize for greatness.'

Is the author a guy or girl?
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That's a good point about victim's right to justice, even in a vacuum. I've never quite thought in that direction because I just never got past how blatantly stupid the proposition is, and especially how hypocritical it often is because those same people hurling the phrases I mentioned earlier at me are also completely on board with violence committed in the past, just as long as it doesn't happen now and offend their delicate, civilized sensibilities.

No, chapter 48 is some 8-10 chapters nefore the new update. Because it was a transitionary period in the story, I had completely forgotten it. I remembered that section as "the one with the epic (relative to the story) fight with Mephisto." I haven't even gotten to the new stuff, chapter 48 was just infuriating l. i

Besides, the "who are you to decide" trope is far more heavily linked to superhero/adventure (not quite but close enough) stories and religiously influenced authors than anything to do with toxic masculinity. Flat out, this trope is multiple times older than toxic masculinity has existed in the mainstream consciousness, and probably existed at all. He's a man, btw.

Despite how much I'm ragging on it, the fight was pretty solid for how obviously new the author was. He even managed to introduce, characterize and give a meaningful death to two oc characters (resurrected as part of the army). That they were a full send stereotypical Dwarf Warrior and a terrified human Squire did make it easier, as the interplay between those two archetypes is really hard to dislike.

Anyway, the surrounding plot points led me to forgetting about it and so I got caught off guard.

Actually, the next plot point is also a trope I hate, giving what should be a random faction a trump card that makes no sense whatsoever just so they can "challenge" your MC.

To specify, somehow the Vatican, hundreds of years ago, so not even the modern but the Medieval Vatican, managed to kill enough kids through brutal human experimentation that they got lucky and produced four attack dogs named after the Seven Virtues (Charity, Righteousness, Truth and Justice I think). It's unknown if it's the same four or a lineage, but what was explicitly stated was that they are each a match for the Horseman 1 on 1.

As a matter of fact, unless the Horseman was fully decked out in all their power boosting Regalia, they would lose, every time, explicitly, to the Virtues.

How the Medieval Vatican managed to produce 4 super soldiers superior to those personally chosen and created by the conceptual personification of Balance itself, I have not a fucking clue. It just doesn't compute, even days after being reminded of it.

Novelvampire said:
Ah yes, the dreaded "character development". Make MC do stupidly insane shit to the point where there is nowhere to go but up and call it development. And if you point it out that means you surely want Xianxia murderous pshyco as an MC.
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Ugh, I hate that phrase.

The second you don't want a Naruto Uzumaki for a MC, you obviously must want literally Fang Yuan, there is obviously absolutely no gradient between these two.

I remember once when I criticized a story where the MC was part of the Shinto pantheon, of the lineage of Amaterasu herself and not distantly at all. Because of his power and rate of growth, he was already pretty prominent in the pantheon.

I said maybe he should care if a foreign dignitary (which was the other character's official role at the time) casually referred to one of the Divine Princes of the land she was sent to as, "Motherfucker" or "Dickhead" or things like that. You know the archetype, constantly mad at everything, thinks they alone have suffered (tbf, she legitimately had) and posses cleverness and the right to act as they want, constantly refers to everyone by insults shaped like knicnames.

I can't quite remember the exact words, and I don't care to dig it up but I got shredded for wanting a xianxia murderhobo and for wanting a blowhard, ego obsessed MC and caring wayy too much about superficial formalities for that criticism.

That's it own trope, this trope of putting your MC in positions of power, authority and high social station, but the MC must constantly remind the reader how much they hate politics or any of the responsibilities of those positions, how they don't care about formalities and all those other powerful and influential people are so silly for caring about things like dressing in fancy clothing rather than just wearing their training clothes everywhere, silly for caring about the wheeling and dealing that sustains their entire lifestyle, silly for not just communicating in the most plain, direct speech and using such preposterous rhetorical devices as implication and insinuation, silly for not being willing to laugh off any insult because "they're just words and I don't care about my reputation because I'm Not Like the Other Nobles."

I find this trope particularly exhausting, because every single time, there's this thinly veined sense of superiority and smugness buried beneath that attitude.
 
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Azreales said:
Besides, the "who are you to decide" trope is far more heavily linked to superhero/adventure (not quite but close enough) stories and religiously influenced authors than anything to do with toxic masculinity. Flat out, this trope is multiple times older than toxic masculinity has existed in the mainstream consciousness, and probably existed at all.
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It's my suspicion that both the humbling fetish and the toxic masculinity delusion are derived from a heretical interpretation of "turn the other cheek". What started as a warning not to let insults to your ego drive you to do things you might regret later, ended up being taken as a blanket ban on asserting yourself at all, and that it's better to just let your enemies win (conveniently ignored is the part that comes later about selling your cloak to buy a sword).

Letting your enemies win might upon shallow reading appear to be what Jesus did after being seized by the Romans, but with the important exception that his enemies did not win, because he had divine powers that ordinary humans do not possess, and that he was doing all of this to fulfil a prophecy, so he knew from the very beginning that this was what had to happen, to the point of admonishing Peter for wanting to interfere while telling Judas to, "go do what you gotta do, and do it quickly... motherfucker". Contrast with a masochistic fanfic MC who is just getting off on being smacked around and starts seeking out situations that would confirm how worthless he is.

Or as the line from that one South Park episode goes: "You wouldn't be the first guy to think he was suffering for humanity but was really just sucking farts"
 
As far as the "humbling fetish" goes, I think it's largely the common phenomena where somebody decides that if something is good - humility and struggle in this case - then a whole lot must be even better.

It's a lot like the idea common in fiction that if real military training is hard, then incredibly brutal training that cripples or kills most of the people you put through it will let you make a Super Soldier. Instead of a traumatized mess.

More is not always better. But a lot of people assume it is, so you get fiction where something considered desirable is exaggerated to the detriment of the story. The literary equivalent of adding an entire shaker of salt to your food instead of a sprinkle.
 
I can add time travelling tropes and make the stakes and consequences of characters actions doesn't have any impact inside the story
 
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