Queshire
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Quick question; uhhhh... How exactly is this supposed to be a good idea in any way, shape or form?
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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
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- Tags
- self insert young justice
Quick question; uhhhh... How exactly is this supposed to be a good idea in any way, shape or form?
Guys from Gotham (supplementary, Renegade option)
Mr Zoat
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16th February
22:30 GMT -8
I lean back in my chair slightly, giving every sign that I'm giving the question the consideration it deserves. Despite the fact that I've obviously prepared for something like that coming up, and the fact that the questioner is far less aggressive about it than Sunset was.
"No, I'm not a member of the National Firearms Organization. I don't think that -as a foreigner- it's appropriate for me to involve myself directly in American politics. My discussions with President Horne have touched on the area of armaments, but only in relation to military and paramilitary policy. My.. understanding of the President's position is that his stated position -that he's in favour of restrictions for practical reasons but doesn't think that they're constitutional at the Federal level- is.. his.. actual position and I can't think of any obvious reason for him to change it if he were re-elected."
The richly bearded man who asked the question looks mildly disgruntled.
"I mean… I'm sure that Jon Horne has done a lot of things that people around here don't like, but he doesn't mislead people about his policy objectives. He'd have a far easier time of it professionally if he did."
There's a small laugh, but gun control is an extremely partisan issue in this part of the country and they want a lot more than that. Horne really isn't winning here, and I'm honestly not sure that he's trying. And with anyone else I'd say that was strategy but with him..? The Source alone knows.
Though what happened is classic Jon Horne: he effectively stated outright that he wouldn't sign any gun control Bills and yet he sounds so hostile to private gun ownership that hardly anyone in the pro-gun lobby heard him do it and he's gotten absolutely no credit for it. Honestly, hand the man a shoo-in election and he manages to turn it into an actual fight. Even with an opponent who knows that it would be electoral suicide to attack him directly. It's the acme of anti-skill.
And objectively, Senator Knight is making a worse case. He hasn't promised not to sign new Bills and despite what the people answering opinion polls seem to think he certainly hasn't said anything about repealing existing Federal restrictions. But he's making nicer noises and shaking hands publically with arms manufacturers and advertising in the right places because he actually knows how to-.
No, it isn't that. Horne knows how to run that sort of campaign; he just doesn't want to. And so he isn't. I like the man, but sometimes…
"Now, personally, I've gotten access to a whole arsenal of alien weapons, as well as all of the weird supervillain stuff that a man in my profession runs into from time to time. But in terms of human weapons… Well…"
I hold up my right hand and take my M134 out of subspace.
"I'll admit that I've taken this out on the range a few times and shot a few targets to splinters. I'm heavy enough and strong enough that I can keep it on target without much difficulty and… I didn't have much contact with explosive-kinetic weapons until I came to Earth and they're.. kind of viscerally satisfying in a way that lasers and plasma weapons aren't."
And that's true, but the flipping rifle rounds it fires aren't going to do a thing to anything I'm going to fight. And since Jon will complain if I tell a direct lie I'll tell the man asking the question that if he directly asks… But I'm hoping that he won't.
I return the gun to subspace.
"How about your kids?"
"My eldest -Lynne- has access to my arsenal. She was taught how to use low calibre pistols before we first met, and I've made sure that she knows how to use some of the more accessible energy weapons. She's not a particularly large girl, and I don't think she's going to be using my guns for a few years yet. My younger children share a.. medical difficulty which means that I'm holding back on teaching them to fight."
And honestly, I think they'll be focusing on magic combat rather than gun fighting.
"But we all live in a fortified mountain surrounded by telepathic guards. We don't exactly have to worry about home-invaders, and last time someone went after one of my children I decapitated their country's government."
That gets an approving nod.
"Did you own a gun back on… Er… Apocalypse?"
The moderator frowns slightly at one man monopolising the microphone, but I'm pretty sure that it's the sort of thing that everyone wants to know and I'm not keen on using debate procedure to refuse to answer civil questions.
Instead, I smile. "Oh yes, definitely."
"Is that.. normal?"
"Ah…" Why is he asking about Apokolips? "Everyone who can get their hands on a gun gets one. Except Father, who has eye beams which make Superman's look like pea shooters and so doesn't need one."
I lean forwards slightly.
"But the difference between America and Apokolips is that you're a constitutional democracy while Apokolips is a totalitarian visocracy. You're an American Citizen; most Apokoliptians are literally called Lowlies. Citizenship comes with rights and responsibilities as part and parcel of the arrangement. On Apokolips, nothing like that exists. There's order because my grandfather.. and after him my father, are so much stronger than everyone else that they can enforce it, not because there's any sort of agreement between the people who make up the society."
"In America, you have constitutions and laws, and mechanisms for enforcing and changing them. On Apokolips, people issue orders and if they're strong enough to enforce obedience then they'll be obeyed. If someone gets a gun and is strong enough to hold onto it when someone above them tells them they shouldn't, then they'll probably get a promotion. If someone above them even bothers to notice. And then? They behave exactly as the person they replaced did, except maybe a little less complacently."
The man nods. "So how d'you think a citizen in a democracy should learn to fire a gun?"
"Guns… Well, any weapon, but we're.. talking about guns here. So it's not that I think a person should be prohibited by law from giving a five year old a magnum at a shooting range… I just think that a responsible citizen should realise that that's a dumb thing to do and not do it. Guns are implements for hurting and killing, and that's the context in which they should be presented. Whenever I see a picture in a gun magazine of a woman posing with an AK Forty Seven while wearing a bikini I think that's a person who doesn't take the weapon they're carrying as seriously as they should."
"If you live in a rural environment, take your children out hunting with you a few times. Let them see what your rifle rounds do to the animals you shoot before you let them touch the thing. Make it very clear what the result of pulling the trigger with something or someone at the other end is. And if you know someone who spent some time in the military and has a story or two about someone who made an unfortunate mistake, make sure they share it. And when you're sure they're not going to do something stupid, then supervise them practising with it before you take them out hunting with it."
"And if you live in an urban environment, try talking to the local police because I'm sure that they'd love to share some images of gunshot injuries to help you impress upon your children the seriousness of picking up a gun. If you're having one in the house, make sure that they see those before they get the stupid idea that guns are cool toys into their heads and decide to play with one."
"Guns are tools for killing, and even when that killing is necessary or good should always be treated seriously."
The man asking the questions sits back, nodding in approval. I'm just glad he didn't ask whether Jon's children were taught how to use guns.
The moderator nods to one of the sound engineers. "Boy on the right there."
I relax a little. While children are perfectly capable of wrong-footing even the most seasoned political professional, the chance of the question actually being-.
The boy -who can't be more than ten- looks at me like I just ran over his puppy. And he decided that I'm going to spend the rest of my life paying for it.
"I have a question about Mister Grayven's relationship with the Chinese government."
…
Oh shit.
22:30 GMT -8
I lean back in my chair slightly, giving every sign that I'm giving the question the consideration it deserves. Despite the fact that I've obviously prepared for something like that coming up, and the fact that the questioner is far less aggressive about it than Sunset was.
"No, I'm not a member of the National Firearms Organization. I don't think that -as a foreigner- it's appropriate for me to involve myself directly in American politics. My discussions with President Horne have touched on the area of armaments, but only in relation to military and paramilitary policy. My.. understanding of the President's position is that his stated position -that he's in favour of restrictions for practical reasons but doesn't think that they're constitutional at the Federal level- is.. his.. actual position and I can't think of any obvious reason for him to change it if he were re-elected."
The richly bearded man who asked the question looks mildly disgruntled.
"I mean… I'm sure that Jon Horne has done a lot of things that people around here don't like, but he doesn't mislead people about his policy objectives. He'd have a far easier time of it professionally if he did."
There's a small laugh, but gun control is an extremely partisan issue in this part of the country and they want a lot more than that. Horne really isn't winning here, and I'm honestly not sure that he's trying. And with anyone else I'd say that was strategy but with him..? The Source alone knows.
Though what happened is classic Jon Horne: he effectively stated outright that he wouldn't sign any gun control Bills and yet he sounds so hostile to private gun ownership that hardly anyone in the pro-gun lobby heard him do it and he's gotten absolutely no credit for it. Honestly, hand the man a shoo-in election and he manages to turn it into an actual fight. Even with an opponent who knows that it would be electoral suicide to attack him directly. It's the acme of anti-skill.
And objectively, Senator Knight is making a worse case. He hasn't promised not to sign new Bills and despite what the people answering opinion polls seem to think he certainly hasn't said anything about repealing existing Federal restrictions. But he's making nicer noises and shaking hands publically with arms manufacturers and advertising in the right places because he actually knows how to-.
No, it isn't that. Horne knows how to run that sort of campaign; he just doesn't want to. And so he isn't. I like the man, but sometimes…
"Now, personally, I've gotten access to a whole arsenal of alien weapons, as well as all of the weird supervillain stuff that a man in my profession runs into from time to time. But in terms of human weapons… Well…"
I hold up my right hand and take my M134 out of subspace.
"I'll admit that I've taken this out on the range a few times and shot a few targets to splinters. I'm heavy enough and strong enough that I can keep it on target without much difficulty and… I didn't have much contact with explosive-kinetic weapons until I came to Earth and they're.. kind of viscerally satisfying in a way that lasers and plasma weapons aren't."
And that's true, but the flipping rifle rounds it fires aren't going to do a thing to anything I'm going to fight. And since Jon will complain if I tell a direct lie I'll tell the man asking the question that if he directly asks… But I'm hoping that he won't.
I return the gun to subspace.
"How about your kids?"
"My eldest -Lynne- has access to my arsenal. She was taught how to use low calibre pistols before we first met, and I've made sure that she knows how to use some of the more accessible energy weapons. She's not a particularly large girl, and I don't think she's going to be using my guns for a few years yet. My younger children share a.. medical difficulty which means that I'm holding back on teaching them to fight."
And honestly, I think they'll be focusing on magic combat rather than gun fighting.
"But we all live in a fortified mountain surrounded by telepathic guards. We don't exactly have to worry about home-invaders, and last time someone went after one of my children I decapitated their country's government."
That gets an approving nod.
"Did you own a gun back on… Er… Apocalypse?"
The moderator frowns slightly at one man monopolising the microphone, but I'm pretty sure that it's the sort of thing that everyone wants to know and I'm not keen on using debate procedure to refuse to answer civil questions.
Instead, I smile. "Oh yes, definitely."
"Is that.. normal?"
"Ah…" Why is he asking about Apokolips? "Everyone who can get their hands on a gun gets one. Except Father, who has eye beams which make Superman's look like pea shooters and so doesn't need one."
I lean forwards slightly.
"But the difference between America and Apokolips is that you're a constitutional democracy while Apokolips is a totalitarian visocracy. You're an American Citizen; most Apokoliptians are literally called Lowlies. Citizenship comes with rights and responsibilities as part and parcel of the arrangement. On Apokolips, nothing like that exists. There's order because my grandfather.. and after him my father, are so much stronger than everyone else that they can enforce it, not because there's any sort of agreement between the people who make up the society."
"In America, you have constitutions and laws, and mechanisms for enforcing and changing them. On Apokolips, people issue orders and if they're strong enough to enforce obedience then they'll be obeyed. If someone gets a gun and is strong enough to hold onto it when someone above them tells them they shouldn't, then they'll probably get a promotion. If someone above them even bothers to notice. And then? They behave exactly as the person they replaced did, except maybe a little less complacently."
The man nods. "So how d'you think a citizen in a democracy should learn to fire a gun?"
"Guns… Well, any weapon, but we're.. talking about guns here. So it's not that I think a person should be prohibited by law from giving a five year old a magnum at a shooting range… I just think that a responsible citizen should realise that that's a dumb thing to do and not do it. Guns are implements for hurting and killing, and that's the context in which they should be presented. Whenever I see a picture in a gun magazine of a woman posing with an AK Forty Seven while wearing a bikini I think that's a person who doesn't take the weapon they're carrying as seriously as they should."
"If you live in a rural environment, take your children out hunting with you a few times. Let them see what your rifle rounds do to the animals you shoot before you let them touch the thing. Make it very clear what the result of pulling the trigger with something or someone at the other end is. And if you know someone who spent some time in the military and has a story or two about someone who made an unfortunate mistake, make sure they share it. And when you're sure they're not going to do something stupid, then supervise them practising with it before you take them out hunting with it."
"And if you live in an urban environment, try talking to the local police because I'm sure that they'd love to share some images of gunshot injuries to help you impress upon your children the seriousness of picking up a gun. If you're having one in the house, make sure that they see those before they get the stupid idea that guns are cool toys into their heads and decide to play with one."
"Guns are tools for killing, and even when that killing is necessary or good should always be treated seriously."
The man asking the questions sits back, nodding in approval. I'm just glad he didn't ask whether Jon's children were taught how to use guns.
The moderator nods to one of the sound engineers. "Boy on the right there."
I relax a little. While children are perfectly capable of wrong-footing even the most seasoned political professional, the chance of the question actually being-.
The boy -who can't be more than ten- looks at me like I just ran over his puppy. And he decided that I'm going to spend the rest of my life paying for it.
"I have a question about Mister Grayven's relationship with the Chinese government."
…
Oh shit.
Last edited:
Ganurath
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Grayven. Dude. That was basically an open invitation for Murphy.
Buggy123
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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*distant moderator groans of pain*
kedgisgo
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Oh holy mother of fuck, let it not be said that children cant hurt you.
Whatever agenda Grayven had at this Q&A session just got totally demolished. Every media outlet on the planet is going to be writing bout this and making discussion pieces, social media is going to fucking flip its lid, if Grayven has a twitter; it is now on fire.
Well done, Small Child, well done.
RichardWhereat
Aia airëa Fëanáro.
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What is a visocracy?
thebishop8
Umm, ackchyually...
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*targets
Should that be "prohibited by law from giving"?
He's not speaking here, so unnecessary end quotation mark. Maybe that should also be "And he has decided"
Last edited:
Mr Zoat
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Thank you, corrected.
Rule by the strong.
Coda
Versed in the lewd.
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Is there a particular reason you've capitalized "Bills" here? I've only ever seen that done in certain legalese documents where the language got fossilized in the 1700s.
Comma should be semicolon
"Guns are tools for killing and, even when that killing is necessary or good, should always be treated seriously."
Or alternatively,
"Guns are tools for killing, and even when that killing is necessary or good they should always be treated seriously."
(*removes ninja'ed edits*)
thebishop8
Umm, ackchyually...
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Found more:
Should that be "giving the question the consideration it deserves."?
Should that be "classic Jon Horne:"?
Mquz
Versed in the lewd.
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The mods here tend to be both reasonable and responsive, unlike those on sb / sv. At least one of them seems to be a fan of WTR, judging by comments he's made. Don't think the people on SB / SV would have approved a potential chapter on principle.
Mr Zoat
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God save our gracious Queen!
Long live our noble Queen!
God save the Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save the Queen!
O Lord our God arise,
Scatter her enemies,
And make them fall:
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix:
God save us all.
Thy choicest gifts in store,
On her be pleased to pour;
Long may she reign:
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause,
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen!
Thank you, corrected.
No, I think that's fine.
Thank you, corrected.
TheEyes
Well worn.
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Could someone explain, for those with Swiss cheese for memories, what this is about? I vaguely recall Grayven using Ghost Fox Killer as a convenient way to make sure some people stay dead, but nothing that should be making him think "Oh shit."
Chojin Patriarch
Veteran Lurker
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Oh, this gonna be good... (ducks into foxhole with helmet on) Let's keep the discussion in-universe, please?
And that is about as milquetoast as an answer can get, short of 'no comment', isn't it?
...Rule 8... But really, Horne seems to be that rare thing: an Honest politician...
And I can see why you ran this past the mods, Mr Zoat.
Correction: 'is an extremely'
So he's that bad? Maybe Grayven should be checking Horne for possible mind control or the like...
Possible Correction: 'is classic John' unless Grayven isntended it?
Sometimes, he makes you wonder what he's planning?
Few things compare to the punch and boom of a slug thrower, eh?
Oh, that's a loaded question... Parents groups will bitch him out if he seems to easy on them using guns, the gun nuts will cuss him out if he's too strict...
Just because they have a rough handle on the bloodthirst, doesn't mean you tempt them with the mess guns make.
Ugh, damn my spotty memory. When was that again?
Dude made a mistake there, assuming Apokolips was anything like America.
"Seriously, it's like the Wild West at times..."
A case of 'Might makes Right' taken to extremes, and scary ones at that...
Now that's a better question.
Correction: 'The man nods', unless he's an 80's cartoon barbarian...
Unfortunately... <Rule 8 alert> Damn, can't say what I want to. Let's just say, not everyone does take them seriously enough...
Yes!
Now, this is how you parent well.
Murphy: "Challenge accepted, bro! Hold my beer!"
From the mouths of Babes... Now, I wonder why he asked that, or who prompted him to ask it.
Hoo boy. Let's hope we get to see what Grayven has to say about that. It should be interesting!
(Let's hope people can stay on-topic here. Resist the 'Someone is Wrong on the Internet' urges, folks!)
Prince Charon
Just zis guy, you know?
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It could be something that happened off-camera, but if it was something he did in canon, I'm also forgetting.
Sceptic
Critical Irrationalist
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Hear that? Mr Zoat's being held at musket-point by Queen Liz 2! She's forcing him to capitalize words at random!
Handlewithcare
Versed in the lewd.
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Is Grayven now campaining for Horne? Can he even do that, not being a citizen?
Prince Charon
Just zis guy, you know?
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I'm not sure that we can discuss that without running into Rule 8.
Dakkan Sall
Random Encounter
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Well, there was also his assisting with getting Immortal Man-in-Darkness (or at least the current one) to not be melted by the Durlan ship but still able to interface with it. And getting Celestial Archer into the Team. But... yeah, can't think of any specific event/incident that happened that would lead to someone bringing the association up in this particular forum for vindictive reasons.
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You're perfectly within your rights to factually answer that question without any issues. Debating the merits of it would be more problematic.
The situation is probably complicated by the real-world equivalent law not having statutes for actual extraterrestrial warlords who technically, according to their own personal standards of legality, own the planet.
Simonbob
Really? You don't say.
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Dakkan Sall
Random Encounter
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The fact that the characters in the scene are talking about gun control (regardless of their actual stances).
Mquz
Versed in the lewd.
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He preferred China over the US in that case.
Mquz
Versed in the lewd.
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Yeah, but people are against foreign governments influencing elections, and according to to certain official sources many major countries do it anyways. It's a thing all sides can seemingly somewhat agree shouldn't be done, in theory. This has been the case for quite a while, since at least the Soviet era (obviously it's still a contentious issue even now, with the internet being a thing) Since he's not a citizen, he could be classified as a foreign national helping a president be elected.
Aeess
I trust you know where the happy button is?
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Grayven is performing experiments for human augmentation on people provided by the Chinese government, because their laws arent as restricted, I honestly wondered if Zoat had forgotten that plot.
doug89
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Funnily enough, if that thing was manufactured before 1986 its legal for private ownership.
"I'm About to End This Man's Whole Career"
I saw someone make an attack helicopter joke in a story on SB the other day and was surprised no mods came. I suppose no one saw it.
DrThoth
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I don't think that was ever brought up again, and given his indirect work with the Un-Men, for example the oolitic kidney, it doesn't seem especially notable. And it sounds like the kind of thing that would be under wraps anyway; this ten year old kid at least probably shouldn't know about it.
It's a funny ending to the chapter, but I too am struggling to think why it's such an Oh Crap moment, unless I'm just underestimating how bad the optics of Renegade having positive relations with the Chinese government would be.
As some other posters questioned, Renegade's explicit and publicly apparent involvement with a presidential campaign seems strange; I'm not sure what the American public think his citizenship status is (I'm a little unsure myself, though my assumption is an unavoidable affiliation with Apokalips).
This does make me curious about how Paragon-Senator Knight is doing in his campaign since he's been involved in diplomacy with Atlantis and potential economically monumental developments related to that. I don't remember Paragon ever interacting with Jon Horne (besides getting him on the phone when dealing with Gotham's mayor), but I assume it was at the non-human citizenship ceremony a while ago.
Valiran
Seeker of fluffiness
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I don't believe they're as bad as you seem to think, and their reactions appear to stem from unreasonable people taking something harmless and using it in ugly ways, like the term "trap". It's supposed to mean "someone who looks (and often dresses) like the opposite gender", but then assholes started using it to refer to trans people, who quite understandably began to see it as a slur.
As always, this is why we can't have nice things.
Simonbob
Really? You don't say.
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The Gun debate in the US, and over most of the planet, can be really, really over the top. I'm not really sure why, myself.
I just chalk it up to "People don't think!" along with, well, a lot of other things.
Rebu
hey, little Anna, you're the one
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Except for the ones for competition (eg clay shooting), range shooting, and to sit in collections.