1. Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. If you wish to change your username, please ask via conversation to tehelgee instead of asking via my profile. I'd like to not clutter it up with such requests.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. A note about the current Ukraine situation: Discussion of it is still prohibited as per Rule 8
    Dismiss Notice
  7. The rules regarding NSFW links have been updated. See here for details.
    Dismiss Notice
  8. The testbed for the QQ XF2 transition is now publicly available. Please see more information here.
    Dismiss Notice

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

Loading...
  1. Grimnar

    Grimnar Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2014
    Messages:
    2,114
    Likes Received:
    19,178
    He literally caused this to happen. They are here as part of a treaty he brokered, under an Authority he helped create, aided by a power he helped to spread.

    Everything is 100% his fault and he needs to stick his oar in and Fucking Sort It.
     
  2. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,463
    Likes Received:
    13,992
    Right. Since you seem to be ignoring my post, let me at least explain to you what that quote actually means. It’s All Might saying that being empathetic to others is what a hero is about. If you see someone in pain, help them out. You don’t let the drudgery, the apathy, get to you. You see a person who might be in an abusive relationship, you don’t disregard him and say, ‘not my problem’. In essence, it’s saying be empathetic and helpful, and don’t fall prey to the bystander effect.

    What you are saying is that individuals should take the law into their own hands, that they shouldn’t respect the sovereignty of countries and the consent of the governed. That’s pretty much the exact opposite of what All Might was trying to say,
     
  3. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    22,134
    Likes Received:
    320,293
    They chose to take on these extra responsibilities.

    Paul chose to let the governments of Earth actually figure out what they will do in this type of situation when superheroes wouldn't and couldn't help them. He's not a traditional superhero, yes he will help out, but not coddle people.

    Yes they are here because of what he did, but they would have come irregardless of his actions, they are interested in making money. And if not them then someone else would have come and Earth would be in a similar situation.

    Remember the government's have had at least a decade to make plans and they probably haven't done anything that we've seen.

    Paul wants to set up systems to help society and he views the world relying on just a few individuals to fix their problems as stupid and impractical.
    He compared it to wiping the ass of a physically and mentally healthy adult.

    Sometimes a sink or swim approach may be the only thing that can get through people's minds that you need to learn.
     
  4. Grimnar

    Grimnar Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2014
    Messages:
    2,114
    Likes Received:
    19,178
    The sheer amount of justifications that fans of a work can come up with boggle the Mind.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    This is fucking DC, where being a Superhero ISN'T A FUCKING JOB! Every single one of them takes the law into their own hands and disobeys the government. And when the government cracks down on them, they Do It Anyway. Because they are Hero's and make other peoples problems their own to deal with.

    This is Supermans pod doing on a Rampage, shrugging his shoulders and saying it's more of an issue for the DMV to deal with. This is Batman's batmobile barreling through the streets by itself, and him strugging his shoulders and saying that it's the Polices job to deal with it.
     
    Relyt33 likes this.
  5. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Alive. For now.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2019
    Messages:
    4,734
    Likes Received:
    17,221
    And one of Paul's goal is to reduce the necessity of such actions. What's your point?
     
  6. The Chosen One

    The Chosen One Getting out there.

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    207
    Except, in this analogy, OL is Robin, and not actually responsible for the decisions of his superiors, and it's a little weird that everyone is acting like he is.
    Paul's been very clear with them all that he is merely a(n incredibly close and powerful) affiliate of the Orange Lantern Corps, having given up responsibility for its operations to a better mind as quickly as possible after founding it. And Aquaman didn't give him shit for that, then, so...
     
  7. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    22,134
    Likes Received:
    320,293
    The League works for the UN, they just don't have much oversight.

    Paul isn't a traditional hero, please remember that.

    If Khan goes on a Rampage without a justified reason Paul would stop.

    While Khan's actions may be questionable he hasn't technically broken any laws so there isn't any legal reason for Paul to do anything he doesn't want.

    Paul is not a League member and the Team doesn't officially exist.

    He also doesn't need to do anything the League tells gim to as the oath with Gaia is done and while he respects them somewhat he doesn't view them as being superior in every single way compared to him.
     
  8. Rafin

    Rafin Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    1,061
    Paul is avarice-enlightened. What exactly are his wants here, as they relate to the situation? Because whatever they are, it doesn't look like he's been choosing any set of actions that actually facilitate the accomplishment of any goal or goals with any consistency or efficiency.
     
    Relyt33, FeepingCreature and Darko like this.
  9. Grimnar

    Grimnar Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2014
    Messages:
    2,114
    Likes Received:
    19,178
    Yes, the same way General Lane is an affiliate of the US Army, and Superman is an Affiliate of the Justice League. To whit, not a fucking affiliate at all, but a senior member.
    Violation of Australian Airspace, smuggling, and counting.
     
  10. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Alive. For now.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2019
    Messages:
    4,734
    Likes Received:
    17,221
    ...And have breaking those laws actually hurt anyone yet? If things go so bad that his help is actually necessary, OL would step in, but until then, he judged that intervening would be worse than letting Earth learn from practical experiences. You can disagree with his decision, but he is pursuing his motivation pretty consistently.
     
  11. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    22,134
    Likes Received:
    320,293
    He wants the Earth то develop methods for dealing with these types of situations without relying on superheroes.
    He thinks that helping them when they've had decades to make some solutions on their own won't help then in the long run.
     
  12. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,463
    Likes Received:
    13,992
    Look, OL is no more responsible for this situation than a clerk who sold you an item that later turned out to malfunction. He did not make it, he did not package it, he did not deliberately give you the malfunctioning article, he is not responsible for it. He is just an intermediary.
     
  13. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,463
    Likes Received:
    13,992
    Right, and you didn’t actually respond to the actual argument I was making. Why am I not surprised. Oh, and if you want to be rude and ad hominem, you can fuck right off.
     
  14. DAT_NOOB

    DAT_NOOB Accused of writing in a far away land

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    821
    Likes Received:
    3,144
    Why would you deny desire Mon-keigh, give in to the lust, the want, the excess. We only want for you to indulge yourself more.

    This guy gets it, give in to your desires Mon-keigh.

    usually those intermediary's offer a replacement if it's broken
     
  15. Grimnar

    Grimnar Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2014
    Messages:
    2,114
    Likes Received:
    19,178
    So OL doesn't step in to stop mundane thieves? Oh wait, he does. Other mundane crimes? Oh wait, he does. If he truly thought that was a problem for the mundane authories to deal with he wouldn't involve himself, but he does and has.

    Yes he did. The Orange Lantern corp is his creation.
    He made the deal for the ships arrival at Earth.

    He handed out recruitment policy to someone else, which was his decision.
    Lies.
     
    Jaron and drasteed like this.
  16. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Alive. For now.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2019
    Messages:
    4,734
    Likes Received:
    17,221
    False equivalence. In those situations, he judged his interventions to help more than harm. In this situation, he judged otherwise.
     
  17. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,463
    Likes Received:
    13,992
    Are you actually going to understand the arguments I’m making, instead of immediately jumping to the clearly metaphorical example I gave you? Not to mention the rest of the posts you’ve disregarded.

    They have the express authority to do so. oL can at best ask Dox for a replacement, but even then that would only delay the problem, not solve it.
     
  18. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Alive. For now.

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2019
    Messages:
    4,734
    Likes Received:
    17,221
    He created it alongside multiple individuals.
    He didn't decide the specific type of ships. Dox(apparently) did.
    ? Wasn't Dox actively experimenting which type of recruits would work best for the corps? Paul didn't give a specific recruitment policy, as far as I remember. He just looked at their emotional structures, and intuitively chose those he felt would fit well with the corps. Dox probably considered their personality as well and may have incorporated them into his experiments, I guess.
     
  19. Grimnar

    Grimnar Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2014
    Messages:
    2,114
    Likes Received:
    19,178
    Your arguments are shit. And as to why, I will explain it to you.

    Let me lay out how causality works.

    He pulls with Orange Light on the Ring Truggs is wearing, inadvertantly calling dozens of Rings and scattering about space.
    While he isn't responsable for what the people do with those rings, he IS responsable for putting the Rings within reach of each of them. This is his mess to clean up, and the other character make it abundandly clear they expect him to do so.

    OL reaches out the Guardians about the creation of an Orange Lantern Corp.
    He captures Larfleeze and the CPB.
    He recruits dox.
    He introduces the Controlling Controller and Dox as the new leader.
    He recruits optimal lanterns.

    Without his unique involvement and investments the Orange Lantern Corp wouldn't exist. Every bit of good it does and every bit of bad is does is a consequence of his actions to a far more egregious degree than just calling those rings. As the creating infleunce the messes they cause are a result of his actions.

    This is how Causality works. Action to consequence and so on.


    To act as if this has nothing to do with OL is fucking nonsensical because he set all this into motion. And as is the case with the Rings, everyone rightly holds him responsable for actions he knowing and deliberately took. And this isn't going to be a one time thing. He created the damn thing and others will hold him accountable for his actions.
     
  20. moralrelativity

    moralrelativity Recovering pendant.

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    3,601
    Could someone please remind me who Arnus is and how Paul pissed him(?) off?
     
    Xmaster3000, Ardy and Darko like this.
  21. FeepingCreature

    FeepingCreature Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2017
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    2,947
    The fact that the governments of Earth have no way to compel Paul to help is exactly why he shouldn't help. There's a difference between being a hero and being a doormat. I'm very glad Paul is asserting himself more. Paul's whole point is that it's insane for a planet to suborn its government to the will of a bunch of unelected supers because the government is too lazy to actually do their damn jobs. That's not even Justice Lords tier, that's Justice No You Do It It's Okay. Takeover of society by dint of nobody else could be arsed; authority via disinterest of the governed.

    So Paul ain't gonna do it. What are you- restate. Aside from whining at him and giving him puppy dog eyes, what are you going to do about it? Seriously, what do you do about it? What's your plan for if a super doesn't feel like it right now?

    Cause if you don't have a plan, if you're that powerless and aimless, then you don't have a government. Just a bunch of pointless titles.

    Jesus Christ. Apparently supers are supposed to do the government's job because the government just doesn't have the work ethic to do it at all. If that is what supers do to a society, then Lex was right.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
  22. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    22,134
    Likes Received:
    320,293
    Arnus is Icon, an alien that crashed to Earth in the 19th century and was reconfigured as a black man by his shop.

    He's a lawyer named Augustus.

    As for why he's pissed at Paul no idea, though it could be something else seeing as I'm not familiar all that much with his comics.
     
  23. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,463
    Likes Received:
    13,992
    And you still seem to have missed the 4-5 posts I made before you replied, one or two of which were in direct response to you. Unless you actually respond to my arguments and not whatever snippet that fancy, this is the last post I’ll be responding to.

    Except this ring is not from that event. An just because people expect you to do something doesn’t mean that it’s the right thing to do, or your responsibility. It just means the]at they expect you to do something.

    Was Ol the ‘cause’ for the Orange Lanterns? That’s a no, because that was Hinon, when she made the ring that sought him out. Is he the cause for their creation as they are? Partially. He brought in Dix to actually head the Corps. Is he then responsible for the Corps? No, that’s Dox. Is he to blame? No, even less than he can be held responsible.

    There is a difference, between causality, responsibility and blame.

    Except he really isn’t. By your logic, it is not OL, but Hinon, Batman, Wonder Woman and Alan Scott who are responsible for all actions that Paul has taken, because they provided him with his ring and lantern, and as such created ‘Orange Lantern 2184’.[/Quote]
     
  24. Ace Dreamer

    Ace Dreamer Questioning The Nature of our Realities

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2019
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    2,662
    Might be just me, but I read this episode and saw exploding goats* in the future...

    * Why? Because exploding them is about the only way to stop goats** eating stuff.

    ** Why worry about exploding goats? Because, for the goats, it's a pretty terminal situation.



    OK, this is here because of the explosions. It has, as far as I know. zero goat content.

    Easy they say. Stick a stake in the ground. Tie a rope to it, with the goat on the end. The goat will pull the stake out of the ground. Then, eat the rope. Then the stake.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
  25. l---erddad---l

    l---erddad---l Wait, google can see this?

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2017
    Messages:
    639
    Likes Received:
    3,794
    Paul's issue has to do with a form of hypocrisy, where you espouse a set of beliefs but don't follow through. If the League wants to be protectors of Earth, they can fucking do it right. It's about following through, not about what you're doing in the first place.

    Okay. First off, everybody who's arguing this isn't OL's fault is a fucking moron, because that's not why he's not getting involved. If he were making decisions based on whose responsibility it is to do this, he would do it. HE'S NOT!!! He's literally going, in the text, "the Earth needs to be able to interact with the rest of the universe reasonably on a level beyond "toss superheroes at it", and it's had at least 14 years to get used to this and think of how to do so. It needs to solve this problem itself." This is a relatively low-stakes environment: The fact is, if things go horribly wrong then OL can yank Khan's ring pretty ez. It's not a question of whether OL can take charge, because he's definitely more powerful, it's whether he should. He doesn't have the perfect answers, but in his opinion Earth needs a wake-up call that it needs to figure out a way to meaningfully interact with the rest of the universe.
     
  26. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,463
    Likes Received:
    13,992
    While I agree with most of what you’ve said, I do still believe it isn’t OL’s fault. He might be the cause, yes, but he is not to blame. The two are very different.
     
  27. dxdragon

    dxdragon Experienced.

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Messages:
    3,304
    Likes Received:
    25,281
    ...Now I just want to see Paul talk to Lex, pat him on the back for actually stepping up to work on interstellar trade, and then leave.


    Khan isn't doing anything evil, and it is up to the UN to decide how they want to deal with trade between worlds. A lone hero should not be deciding the fate of Earth's trade.


    Hell, what did they think would happen, with all of the aliens who come to Earth? That none of them would show up and try to exploit them with trade instead of throwing punches?


    This is a strictly non-hero related situation. If the League can't intervene in civil wars, or Brazil's internal situation, then they sure as hell can't decide for EVERY country in the world's economic policy.

    If someone (Lex) want's to open trade, gain access to tech that, while considered outdated for space, is light-years ahead on Earth? Go for it!

    We can get spaceships, replicators, fusion plants, etc!

    TLDR: Earth is gonna find out that their the Native Americans, and ClusterCorp is just the first of the European Settlers.
     
  28. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    22,134
    Likes Received:
    320,293
    This reminds me of a scene in the story 'Judiciary Misadventures' on SB.

    After the Light is destroyed Batman and Flash wonder what they can do to improve the Earth and Flash asks Hawkgirl for advice.

    One of the tings she says is that they are going to need to get a unified government because no one is going to want to hash out deals with hundreds of different nations and it would be extremely easy for the people of Earth to end up like the Native Americans did.
     
  29. moralrelativity

    moralrelativity Recovering pendant.

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    3,601
    Thank you!
     
    Darko likes this.
  30. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    22,134
    Likes Received:
    320,293
    For this whole OL is wrong or right debate I think he was right as the governments haven't done any planning for this even if they have had decades to do so.

    Paul's methods in handling this situation are something that most people won't agree with, but sometimes you need to employ unorthodox methods to finally solve a situation.

    Key and Peele have already proven that sometimes unorthodox methods can solve an issue.



     
Loading...