With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Pez]

Not a bad ship.

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It's an excellent ship. Now I'm wondering how Diana would have handled a couple hundred years there before she encountered Grayven. Would she have done as Artemis, and conquered half the planet to stabilize it? What kind of divinity would have emerged out of her?

 

[Darko]

It's an excellent ship. Now I'm wondering how Diana would have handled a couple hundred years there before she encountered Grayven. Would she have done as Artemis, and conquered half the planet to stabilize it? What kind of divinity would have emerged out of her?

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Most likely her Truth divinity.

The only times I remember her being the goddess of anything else was when she became a war god in the n52.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

People in the dark night who can't see all that well and know that something is out to get them.

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plus the rumors that spread around among the criminal underclass, basically you're generic Mooks, of the few guys that they knew for years that were brutally beaten to the point of full body cast, and traumatic brain injuries, being spread around.

It's important to note that the beatings that Batman lays down on people, would almost certainly be fatal. If not fatal, there be an entire wing of Gotham General Hospital filled with Batman's victims.

I mean his gauntlets nowadays are clearly weighted, with studs on his knuckles. Not to mention they have to be engineer in such a way that he himself gets very little backlash into his own hand. Otherwise his knuckles would be just battered and shot by now.

So in addition to his brutal use of joint locks, smashing moocs in the skull with hardened pieces of whatever his batarangs are made out of, he's also beating the living piss out of them with high-tech brass knuckles.

So yeah, Batman would have already left a lot of bodies in his wake. That sort of thing tends to get spread around. Lot of weeping mothers tending to their full grown children, whose brains have been beaten back into infancy

 

[Pez]

Most likely her Truth divinity.

The only times I remember her being the goddess of anything else was when she became a war god in the n52.

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Divinity is based on domains, correct? Artemis is the "Goddess of Arrows" because she uses them. That just means that, outside of general god powers, she has super special arrow powers, right?

That's what she started off as, but... is that really what she is now? She has arrow powers, but... she's a god queen now. Arrows was never her domain, anymore than speed was Wally's. They were just things they used.

Artemis isn't a queen now, and she feels her missing that. That's why when she commands the console, and it obeys, she feels better. Maybe more than just some god-bond with Grayven, she's shares his domain for Conquest, or a small part of it.

I don't know. I'm not smart enough to figure any of this out. To me, my thoughts on what her domain is (or domains are) seems to make more sense. I mean, look at Scott and Barda. They're married, but they don't seem to share the same domains at all.

 

[Darko]

plus the rumors that spread around among the criminal underclass, basically you're generic Mooks, of the few guys that they knew for years that were brutally beaten to the point of full body cast, and traumatic brain injuries, being spread around.

It's important to note that the beatings that Batman lays down on people, would almost certainly be fatal. If not fatal, there be an entire wing of Gotham General Hospital filled with Batman's victims.

I mean his gauntlets nowadays are clearly weighted, with studs on his knuckles. Not to mention they have to be engineer in such a way that he himself gets very little backlash into his own hand. Otherwise his knuckles would be just battered and shot by now.

So in addition to his brutal use of joint locks, smashing moocs in the skull with hardened pieces of whatever his batarangs are made out of, he's also beating the living piss out of them with high-tech brass knuckles.

So yeah, Batman would have already left a lot of bodies in his wake. That sort of thing tends to get spread around. Lot of weeping mothers tending to their full grown children, whose brains have been beaten back into infancy

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Not unless the martial arts he's studied allow him to fight them without crippling them, and seeing the weird martial arts that exist there it is possible.

Also if he uses some schizo tech for his gloves or costume, then the brass knuckle damage may not happen.

 

[Zig]

None of those other characters have spent hundreds of years under the yoke of Renagades conquest aura.

And to be perfectly honest the others would be right to suspect at least some level of mind control going on with both how she's acting and her refusal to let Miss Martian go through her head.

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OK? Grayven literally just said that they are right to be suspicious. Artemis also agreed in an earlier snippet.

 

[Jirachi]

Artemis... really should probably visit Scott for this.
This is generally pretty yikes.

 

[iamnuff]

Goddess of arrows is a weird distinction.
Not Goddess of Archery?

 

[DreamerZexion]

Divinity is based on domains, correct? Artemis is the "Goddess of Arrows" because she uses them. That just means that, outside of general god powers, she has super special arrow powers, right?

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You know this reminds me of the fate series and how like two people actually used arrows in the archer but people kept using everything from projectile swords to firing projectile treasures at people.

 

[Sun Dog]

Aqualad, Wally, Zatanna, Artemis, Tao( but not by renegade ), the girl with the magnetic powers, were made into New Gods.

M'gann technically isn't a New God, just a powerful Martian

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I thought she was an early recipient, and that's what turned her Red because it was nearer her idealized self?

I don't get it. Miming some British idiom?

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Robin "Can I trust you to fix the door? (and not insert some weird monitors or backdoor access or something)

Grayven - already fixed the door, shrugs and mimes flipping a coin.

From which I get a "mmmmmmmmaybe." Combined with him fixing everything slightly different and Artemis assumption he threw in a couple extra wires that go nowhere and doodads that do nothing, just to troll Robin when he rips the door panel apart looking for the sabotage.

 

[Flightless Man]

Goddess of arrows is a weird distinction.
Not Goddess of Archery?

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I'm expecting she has shifted to something Halfway between arrows and conquest. Like choice. Kind of in the she chooses an action (shoots an arrow) and follows through until it lands. She has been very make a choice and live with it.

 

[Darko]

I thought she was an early recipient, and that's what turned her Red because it was nearer her idealized self?

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Nope, he just removed the restrictions the Guardians placed on her species.

I don't think he can even Awaken people not from Earth, due to the Life Entity.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I wonder how Bialya is getting on. That sexist layabout still on top or did she get lynched while Grayven wasn't paying attention?

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Homophobic, not sexist. And yes, she's still there, though she's essentially just a figurehead at this point.

 

[Valint]

Goddess of arrows is a weird distinction.
Not Goddess of Archery?

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Robin was the one making the distinction, not her, and it felt like a bit of a jibe to try to diminish her claim of being a goddess.

Artemis just didn't seem to care enough to respond on that level, beyond noting that her domain is broader than just that.

 

[Pez]

Robin was the one making the distinction, not her, and it felt like a bit of a jibe to try to diminish her claim of being a goddess.

Artemis just didn't seem to care enough to respond on that level, beyond noting that her domain is broader than just that.

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Really, the Team/League is playing this all wrong. They seem to think she needs to be fixed. Other than speaking with a neutral New God (Scott would probably be the best pick), offering to have M'gann tinker with her mind, veiled insults, and forced confinement, is going about this wrong.

Centuries of exposure to Grayven might have done something to her, but she was conquering the planet on her own before they spent a majority of their time together. And even if her exposure before Gravyen took a look at the sun, she didn't seem to have any inclinations to conqueror before he disappeared.

Despite their treatment of her, disrespecting Grayven in front of her, the person she just admitted she trusted the most, isn't going to go over too well.

I'm interested in seeing how Batman will handle Artemis's ultimatum, as he isn't known for compromising often.

 

[Darko]

Really, the Team/League is playing this all wrong. They seem to think she needs to be fixed. Other than speaking with a neutral New God (Scott would probably be the best pick), offering to have M'gann tinker with her mind, veiled insults, and forced confinement, is going about this wrong.

Centuries of exposure to Grayven might have done something to her, but she was conquering the planet on her own before they spent a majority of their time together. And even if her exposure before Gravyen took a look at the sun, she didn't seem to have any inclinations to conqueror before he disappeared.

Despite their treatment of her, disrespecting Grayven in front of her, the person she just admitted she trusted the most, isn't going to go over too well.

I'm interested in seeing how Batman will handle Artemis's ultimatum, as he isn't known for compromising often.

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They probably don't have any experience with situations like hers, so they're not completely sure what they should do.

This Batman is also more reasonable compared to other versions.

 

[Rafin]

What's the state of Renegade Mars? I can't remember.

 

[Coda]

then notice that Robin and Wally are nearly standing to attention.

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This phrasing feels a bit too British for Artemis. "almost standing at attention" would probably be more natural.

 

[Darko]

What's the state of Renegade Mars? I can't remember.

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The government, except one guy, was killed by Karmang.

Renegade sent a bomb to his home, but whether it really destroyed it and killed him hasn't been announced,m so he could still be alive and his base could have been transported to another place.

Mars is probably now one incident away from civil war.

This phrasing feels a bit too British for Artemis. "almost standing at attention" would probably be more natural.

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Unless renegades Britishisms got to her.

 

[Mr Zoat]

This phrasing feels a bit too British for Artemis. "almost standing at attention" would probably be more natural.

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I'll change it.

 

[DeathlessProficiency]

Grayven is her safety blanket.

...
...

a Grayfety Blanket.

 

[Pez]

They probably don't have any experience with situations like hers, so they're not completely sure what they should do.

This Batman is also more reasonable compared to other versions.

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This Batman may be more reasonable, but the League members are more incompetent. A canon event sums it up the most for me: Following the Martian training simulation gone wrong, Batman hoped that "they would rally". That was the dumbest thing I ever heard from the one nicknamed 'Batdad'. "Oh, hey, you just say everybody you cared about get brutally killed? Just walk it off." Manhunter had to remind him about trauma.

So, him playing this wrong is entirely possible. It's also possible that maybe, just maybe, he learned from past mistakes. I'm going to wager that he doesn't force the issue right now. We'll hopefully see in the next update.

 

[Vaermina]

Really, the Team/League is playing this all wrong. They seem to think she needs to be fixed. Other than speaking with a neutral New God (Scott would probably be the best pick), offering to have M'gann tinker with her mind, veiled insults, and forced confinement, is going about this wrong.

Centuries of exposure to Grayven might have done something to her, but she was conquering the planet on her own before they spent a majority of their time together. And even if her exposure before Gravyen took a look at the sun, she didn't seem to have any inclinations to conqueror before he disappeared.

Despite their treatment of her, disrespecting Grayven in front of her, the person she just admitted she trusted the most, isn't going to go over too well.

I'm interested in seeing how Batman will handle Artemis's ultimatum, as he isn't known for compromising often.

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They think she needs to be fixed, because she does need to be fixed.

At a minimum, she has an extreme case of PTSD that makes her a potential danger to everyone around her. While at a maximum, her nature has been twisted by Renegade to the point she's also a danger to everyone around her.

 

[Pinklestia]

I suspect OL is feeling rather stretched thin with all the pots he has on the stove. The OLC, Tamaran, missions with the team, general Vega shenanigans, general Earth shenanigans, the various research projects he has going, maintaining a relationship, etc etc. Running out of fucks to give is a real problem for someone who's power runs on said fucks. He can't just gut his way through the boring bits like a greenie. It's gotta be all fucks, all the time.

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Hence why Grayven is a better character, he not only delegates but only works on things he actually cares about.

He may not be a snake elemental or lead his own Corps buy he is happier because of it.

OH El is getting the nocive and damaging gratification of just moving from completed goal to completed goal but that's not life, that fulfilling a checklist.

Grayven meanwhile has a family, has a girlfriend he ACTUALLY MAKES TIME TO SEE and while the whole Sheeda thing was still the most boring arc in this whole fanfic at least it was just a few chapters... from our point of view.

He also calls Batman on his bullshit and that's fun to read.

 

[Flightless Man]

First: Mr Zoat, thank you for an amazing story. The length, consistant overall quality, good ideas and interpretations, and twiss to yj canon. they way you use Renegade and paragon perspective to split how tbigger threads andsmaller ones are shared/divided has been a huge inspiration in my own writing, leading to one of the Insert characters going evil. It was a really clever idea of yours to reduce story slog and subverted how i assumed an episode or issue was handled.

Second: I am terrified of horses. had a very bad experiance when i was 5 and hte horse ran away with me, before my aunt could climb on behind me. I have never been interested in any MLP or other form of equine fandom. (i was never someone who hated on people who did, i only had 0 interest myself.) By having the pony arrive as a human i was invested enough in her not to skip the equestria sections. I can now say it has way more lore and care in developing its story then i expected, bu it could still never watch a show about scary horses.

Third: You have done a fantastic job handling both Constructive and negative critisicm. Kudos, props, and a standing ovation because some has been downright garbage commens of people venting a bad mood or plain old rude people. Alot has been good helpful criticism, and some has been people who have a different idea of paul then you do, so they dislike choices made. For so long people agreed with his choices and would do similar actions, so it was very easy to imagine any one of us as paul, especially wiht the no name thing for so long. Every time he makes a choice some more people realize, is nott a story about them becasue i wouldn't do that. this takes them out of i a bit and were more likely o negatively view his action becasue we feel betrayed by his choices not being in line with our own anymore.

Fourth: My favorite characters you write, are: Artemis, Zatanna, Lex, Barda, Darkside, Connor, Wonder Woman,Alan,Adom, Guy, Blackfire, Wally, Constantine,Dani, and Cromwell Kid. You really make me care about them.Leastt fav: Kaldur(something has always felt a few inches to the left in your charecterization of him), Paragon Jade (I'm fine with the romance, its more i feel shes a cardboard charecter), Rocket ( Begining to just think i don't like her character), and Virl Dox or whatever his name is (his name really messes with my dyslexia)

My favorite arcs: Freeing and rehabilitating Adom, Zatana and Star Saphire and Nabu, Lex and SI business(both versions), Burning Martian/Civil unrest on Mars, Greek Gods growing in prominence, First expansion of team, Handling Klarion, Sheeda Futre, Justice Lords and Lynne/Barda/Scott, First half of Vega systtem, Least favorite: how Larfleeze was handled. I wanted a big battle filling nearly an entire sector, felt the subversion was underwhellming.

Fifth(for every else): So many of us have been complaining about pauls actions and diconnect as of late, but how long ago did this begin? how long since he was inserted in the story, has he as an author grown and changed as a person? different from who he was, Writer and character have grown in different directions. Orange rings are about desire, well his have changed. And at its core, chosing an orange ring to give his SI kind of says something about Zoat, Either he is impulsive and acts on his desires, or he repressed them. It seems based on earlier story he repressed his desires while younger but as he writer age, he acted on them more in his own real life. it began reflecting more in the story a few years ago and i feel it is part of the disconnect, In verse paul repressed for long, its weird he shifted to acting on desires he doesn't/hasn't expressed in story. Writer growth affected offscreen character growth.

 

[Pez]

I will fully admit that Artemis is my favorite character in this show, so I am horribly biased when it comes to her. And I really like this Artemis (though, I never understood why Tao...), so I could just be projecting my own wishes on how I interpret her current character.

They think she needs to be fixed, because she does need to be fixed.

At a minimum, she has an extreme case of PTSD that makes her a potential danger to everyone around her. While at a maximum, her nature has been twisted by Renegade to the point she's also a danger to everyone around her.

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Everybody seems to be hung up on her having PTSD. I'm not really seeing it. Per the Mayo clinic:

Symptoms may include nightmares or unwanted memories of the trauma, avoidance of situations that bring back memories of the trauma, heightened reactions, anxiety, or depressed mood.

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I'm not seeing those symptoms in her. She has, what, 18 years of memories before going into the future for a few hundred years? Let's assume she was there for 300 years. That means she spent 94.3% of her life in Sheedaland. During a good part of her life, she was was fighting (conquering), and the rest, she was with Grayven as they worked to fix the universe, and get home.

I'm sure therapy would help her readjust, but there's nothing to fix. To borrow a phrase an infamous New God likes to say... Artemis is.

But this hasn't just affected Artemis.

"Do you want us to call Artemis?"

"Yes."

I blink in surprise. I hadn't.. meant to say that. My children need me around and Lex needs me out of the spotlight. Artemis…

Needs to talk to the friends she hasn't seen in… Decades, at least.

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"Yes, it feels weird for me t-. You know what? Mother Box, hush tube."

"Ping!"

"OhthankGod."

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Even Renegade feels it. He's better adapted to it, and with his Mother Box and Rings, he can reacclimate far easier than Artemis can. She really needs a Mother Box.

"Apokoliptian technology runs throughout my mountain. It helps me project my power, anchors it… It's not quite like having-. Children, move over and let Artemis sit down."

There's a shuffling around as they make space for her to my right, and she plonks herself down, not quite leaning against me but being about as close as she can without doing that.

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This is really the only information from recent chapters that leads me to believe that she has a dependence on Renegade's aura. I know someone referenced something Scott said at some point, but I don't have the time to scour this massive story to find it.

Even then, it still leads me to believe that she also is about Conquering now, even if to a much lesser degree. Which is why he feels better around her, too. Shame her cutie mark was a typical bow and arrow.

"Well, yeah, she spent hundreds of years in the future. She's been Queen of the Bondage Elves longer than she's been on the team. People change, Rob. And anyway-. Wait, are you still hung up on Grayven?"

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Why the hell is Kid Flash the one that kinda gets it? Robin's allowing his dislike of Renegade to influence his thoughts on Artemis.

So... I don't think there's anything to fix. She needs time. Maybe time away from Grayven, to help undo any effects his aura had/has on her. Maybe she just needs a lot of talk therapy (though, honestly, who the hell is qualified to do that? Maybe someone from Themyscira that is thousands of years old, or a New God that specializes in this). Or maybe she just needs to be Artemis, and conquer some fucking planets.

All mighty Zoat, please make Space Empress Artemis a thing.

 

[Pinklestia]

: I am terrified of horses

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A car is way more likely to kill you, I say that as someone who used to have a fear of horses, then I was almost run over by a car, had a dog killed by a car and saw the numbers.

Ponies are not horses any more that cats are lions. Ponies are small and cute creatures that while able to hurt you, they cannot break your back.

People say you can't logic away your fears... but I can?

Fear of darkness? One day I turned on the lights, saw everything that was in my room, then turned the lights off and saw the things again in darkness. Then turned the lights on again and moved things around so nothing looked scary in the darkness, problem solved.

Fear of snakes? Turns out no poison snakes live in the area, still fear them but not to the point of not even moving if I see one.

Fear of spiders? Learned what poison spiders look like so I am less afraid of the small mostly harmless one I am likely to see on the house or garden.

Fear of death? Still fear it and always will but I look at the numbers and so far I still have a few decades to live.

 

[Vaermina]

Everybody seems to be hung up on her having PTSD. I'm not really seeing it. Per the Mayo clinic:

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Heightened reactions, like say destroying a console because she didn't remember how to use it?

Anxiety, like she has been showing constantly?

Depressed mood, like she gets any time she's not around Renegade?

 

[Pez]

Heightened reactions, like say destroying a console because she didn't remember how to use it?

Anxiety, like she has been showing constantly?

Depressed mood, like she gets any time she's not around Renegade?

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Her power did that to the console, because it wouldn't obey her. That was Batman's fault for keeping her hostage. And of course she's frustrated. She hadn't used a console like that in decades, and everybody is pissing her off. The chapter starts with Robin starting shit.

True anxiety doesn't just go away. I know people who suffer from it. It's sudden, with little to no reason behind it, and passes. Depression is the same.

Artemis feels this way because something she's had in her life so long, something that's a part of her now, is missing. Even Renegade feels that way (though to a lesser extent), but nobody is claiming he's suffering from PTSD.

What nobody seems to understand is... she's been back only two days. She needs time! Hundreds of years (probably) versus two days.

 

[Lone Courier 6]

Problem is, is she falls more into Grayven's Social Circle than The Team's at this point, and she's trying to go back to a life that no longer resonates cleanly with her...When a bond forged in war still calls to her, when Grayven is too happy to help his counterpart try to find a place back in this time, but most of the Team expects her to be the exact same person as before.