With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darko]

Renegade Paul doesn't work with Gordanians. This is Actual!Grayven.

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Renegade did conquer the Gordanians, so they may work for him, but yeah this is the actual Grayven.

 

[BR549]

I am confused. Is this the real Grayven that is Darkseid's son from Universe 16, or is this Renegade!Paul Grayven?

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Crisis of Multiple Grayvens in progress...

This is Grayven 16 - Paragon Grayven.

Also relevant to this fic are Grayven-16 (Renegade Original Flavor Grayven), Grayven-50 (Justice Lords Grayven), and Renegade Paul (Artificially Flavored Grayven).

 

[Gantradies]

id comment on that being a little petty there at the end, but, OL? Best Snek?have to say. both as a person, and as a character? as Bayonetta once said to madame butterfly:
"-nice-."
seriously,such a fragile ego- its a sad day to see a god of conquest that cant even conquer his own urges/neurosis/fear of getting another lashing with the neural whip by granny-
i mean, CONSTANTLY demanding obedience/supplication with godspeech- so insecure!

Ren!Gravy would have formed up with the OLC detachment and started a second run on another target whilst using more subtle nudges AND playing the diplomatic game in the time he wasted blathering (assuming he was focused, admittedly), for all that he's got a rep for being more direct/combative then the paragon...


more seriously, it rather feel's like he's gotten dependent on using godspeech to covertly nudge "mortals" into acquiescence, or making mistakes/freezing one way or the other- could be a potential vulnerability if he's used to acting like a blunt object Re: his personal contributions to a conflict/parley-and that short temper of his is another weakness for someone who fancy's them-self a war-leader....

 

[Alasnuyo]

Crisis of Multiple Grayvens in progress...

This is Grayven 16 - Paragon Grayven.

Also relevant to this fic are Grayven-16 (Renegade Original Flavor Grayven), Grayven-50 (Justice Lords Grayven), and Renegade Paul (Artificially Flavored Grayven).

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Isn't Grayven-50 kinda dead? I doubt he would show up in any future Crisis event barring some time-travel stuff.

 

[Laufe]

Well, that was surprisingly civilized. So, they basically agreed to stay out of each other's way until the conquest (Grayven)/liberation (OLC/LEGION) of Reach territory is finished, which will probably take centuries.

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It may have been civilized. But it was also a fight.

Gravyen's domain is Conquest, his outright ability to literally make his enemy crumble before him is a massive part of his powerset. Had Paragon simply left this confrontation as a battle of words, the victory would have been handed to Grayven.

Paragon's move may have been a dick move by normal standards, but, it also established to the God of Conquest, who has already been stopped in his tracks by OL, that he can be beaten. This means in their next encounter, Paragon will be on a stronger metaphysical footing, as he's already bested the God of Conquest.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

3rd July 2012
10:29 GMT -5

Oh. I… Think I vaguely remember that he was one of Darkseid's offspring, created because the writers thought that they were devaluing Darkseid by showing him being constantly beaten by everyone. Notable victories included killing Darkstars… And I can't think of anything else.

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Indeed. Not the most memorable character. And his existence didn't help Darkseid retain any dignity from his repeated defeats...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Nice work with the Reach fleet. Councillor Vayneek told me that his clan was interested in attacking the Reach, but he didn't mention that his clan chief was Apokoliptian."

Now that I get a closer look, the tron lines on the front of his cuirass look like a more high-tech version of the clan insignia. That makes sense; he'd wear it because it shows he's in charge, but there's no way he'd paint it on himself and his flesh would regenerate a tattoo.

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Ah, Apokaliptian technology. Always such a classy visual... And wasted on Grayven-16.

"How do you know of my people?"

"S-." I frown, then smile. "Your brother Scott Free lives on my homeworld."

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Giving information without giving anything of real value away. Nice. Thankfully, it's a long way to Earth from here, so Gravy-boy isn't likely to come looking anytime soon...

There's no obvious reaction to that news, though assuming he's actually in touch with Apokolips then he now knows where I come from.

"You do know me, then."

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My, he seems almost excited to meet someone who's heard of him before he stomps on them... I guess that gives him a little mojo boost.

"Know of you. I mean, I knew a New God was involved the moment the boom tube appeared, and I guessed 'Apokoliptian' due to the way your followers conducted themselves, but I didn't you were in charge. I didn't know what you looked like until you introduced yourself just now."

"And you. What are you?"

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More than you can handle easily, I think. Any fight would be a slobber-knocker...

"I am the Illustres of the Orange Lantern Corps. And as-."

"No. Not that. You do not feel entirely mortal."

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Heh. That unconventional soul of OL's again. Bet it looks really freaky to Gravy-boy's divine senses...

"I was bonded to the Embodiment of Avarice for a week a year and a half ago. The experience -and the recovery from it- changed me. Look, can we… Talk about the Reach?"

"Yes." "Acquiesce."

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I have the feeling he's been relying a lot on his ability to Godspeech people into submission for a while now...

There it.. is again.

"Please don't do that."

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It's like having someone talking behind your back.. right in front of your face. Very rude little boy.

"I do what I like."

"Does 'what you like' include starting a fight with the Embodiment of Avarice right here? Scott explained that spiritual communication thing you New Gods do-."

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Well, he can try. I doubt any explanation could really convey the sense of it, even if OL could have felt it then as easily as he is now.

"He did not. He lacks the knowledge that would be required. Still, I can be satisfied that you are not wholly ignorant. But, no. I will not still my soul for your benefit."

"In that case we will speak with you in the manner in which you are accustomed."

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Calling up the Ophidian's power to make a point? A little risky. Stylish, but risky.

A clear expression of disquiet on his face as we regard all that he is. The structures of his desires are more alive than those we are accustomed to, more bound up in the material, acting on it directing and in turn-.

"Banish your creature!" "You Are Not Worthy!"

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And that's an interesting reaction. Given the greater sense of soul that New Gods have, I bet that felt like having someone run a finger down your spinal column.. from the inside.

"We are not so separate that one can banish the other, but since it offends you so much, I will make a temporary accommodation."

His eyes are glowing red-. Ah, yes, he has a scaled-down version of the omega beam, doesn't he. I wonder how scaled down? Conflict with Darkseid is inevitable, and it would be infinitely preferable to have some idea if plan 'stick something in the way' is actually a viable tactic.

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Of course, that's contingent on him working in Darkseid's name. Prudent to assume he is, though

"The New God religion says that each of you embodies a fraction of the Source, doesn't it? The divide between me and the Ophidian is a little unclear. But: the Reach."

He remains staring at me as his eyes dim.

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Indeed. One thing they can probably agree on: The Reach are arseholes.

"This ship is the Absolute Dominion. A New God warship crafted to fight in our earliest wars and made whole anew at my direction. It is unimaginably superior to anything the Reach can field."

I nod. "And your gordanians have a rare discipline. I take it you've worked on them as well?"

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I wonder how many years it took to get them up to his standards? One Gordanian generation? Two? And I wonder if Daddy knows he took the ship? ...Well, He almost certainly knows. More of a question is whether He cared...

"Their minds and souls are now as strong as their bodies. They can never be my equals, but they are most excellent tools for extending my domain."

"I had been under the impression that Apokolips was out of the military conquest business."

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Only for as long as they can't get away with it. Soon as their major rivals go bye-bye, they'll roll out to sweep the galaxy before them...

"I do not do this for Apokolips. I act in my own name, under my own banner."

"Ah. Good for you. Because we're really not ready to fight Darkseid."

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Few are.

That actually gets a small smirk.

"No. You are not."

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But neither are you, is that right? Otherwise, you wouldn't have stopped to talk, or even let the NEMO fleet escape. As big a dick your ship is, it isn't big enough to swing in Darkseid's yard...

"But he's the target, isn't he. In the end. He can't tolerate anyone being independent of him, not in the long run."

"I have no interest in indulging you. I will tell you what I will do. I will destroy the Reach as a political body. The survivors will become mine, and I will rule over them as I see fit."

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As expected. No doubt he expects them to become cogs in his machinery of Conquest.

"I have no particular objection to you taking and administering that territory, but… The worlds conquered by the Reach but still occupied by their original inhabitants must be returned to them."

"They can live under my reign, equal to my other tools. The Reach destroy theirs too readily." "Such inefficient statecraft offends me."

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Huh. Not such a bad boss as I thought, if his standards are that high. admittedly, it's not hard to have better standards than the Reach.

"Well… We're not going to be releasing any worlds we liberate to you, though we'll be happy to help you undo the Reach's programming on any worlds you liberate."

"I have no need for your aid."

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Good for you, then. You do know you're going to have to clean up your toys once you've bought them. No takebacks, little man.

"Alright. Then… Why are we talking? If you don't want anything and aren't offering anything, I don't understand the point."

"I wished to look you in the eye. Your shield was not inconsiderable in magnitude. If I did not know who you are, my eventual triumph over you would have less… Weight."

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Ah, his narrative Mojo would have taken a hit if he'd just wiped them out. After all, the stronger the foe, the sweeter the feeling of victory, of seeing them bending knee or neck before you.

"Can.. we at least agree to fight the Reach first?"

"If you stay out of my way, I will not seek you out."

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So, stay on your side of the Reach, NEMO will stay on theirs. I suppose that's as much as you'll get out of him...

"I'll… Take that. Um, thank you. Good luck with your war against the Reach, I hope you don't die until right near the end."

He actually smiles.

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Oh, that isn't good... He's pegged OL as a Worthy Opponent, hasn't he? What the Orks would call a Skumgrod? A good scrap.

"I hope that you die to no hand but mine."

"Ah… I already died once. Burning sword through the skull."

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Which should say something about how hard he is to actually kill. No doubt Gravy-boy will take that as a challenge...

"I will make sure that mine is more…" His eyes light up again. "Thorough."

…

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...He seems to be getting a little excited. I guess Apokaliptions really are aroused by power...

"Ah. Okay?" I raise my right fore and index finger to my forehead and give him a demi-salute. "I'll.. be seeing you, then."

I step-.

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Hang on...

…

His smile broadens.

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Yeah, that'll get treated by his Mojo as a retreat, won't it?

Be like that, then.

We step into him, twisting and bending his desire networks, leaving him writhing in confusion before we finally leave, heading after our fleet and our Lanterns. As a New God he will recover in short order, but perhaps he will learn some manners? But now, we have a victory to earn.

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Haha! Leaving him with a stinging reminder of what OL could do to him. And weakening him a little by not taking first blood...

Less confrontational than I was expecting. At least, on the physical plane. That parting shot... And now, back to the NEMO fleet and finding out what the hell Dox was up to, eh?

---

It may have been civilized. But it was also a fight.

Gravyen's domain is Conquest, his outright ability to literally make his enemy crumble before him is a massive part of his powerset. Had Paragon simply left this confrontation as a battle of words, the victory would have been handed to Grayven.

Paragon's move may have been a dick move by normal standards, but, it also established to the God of Conquest, who has already been stopped in his tracks by OL, that he can be beaten. This means in their next encounter, Paragon will be on a stronger metaphysical footing, as he's already bested the God of Conquest.

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Indeed, that's how I saw it too. While it might not play out in quite the narrative fashion I like to think it does, merely retreating in the face of Grayven's army would have disempowered OL...

As it is, this is like walking away from a duel with the opponent bleeding from a tiny scratch on the cheek. OL knows he could have done more damage. Grayven knows he could have done more damage. And that little germ of knowledge will linger in Grayven's metaphysique, a little chink in his armour to exploit in future...

 

[Darko]

Giving information without giving anything of real value away. Nice. Thankfully, it's a long way to Earth from here, so Gravy-boy isn't likely to come looking anytime soon...

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I think you just called Murphy.

Only for as long as they can't get away with it. Soon as their major rivals go bye-bye, they'll roll out to sweep the galaxy before them...

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Unless Darkseid doesn't care about conquering planets and is just interested in the AL Equation.

Few are.

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Hey, I said that!

Few are.

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[Vaermina]

Indeed, that's how I saw it too. While it might not play out in quite the narrative fashion I like to think it does, merely retreating in the face of Grayven's army would have disempowered OL...

As it is, this is like walking away from a duel with the opponent bleeding from a tiny scratch on the cheek. OL knows he could have done more damage. Grayven knows he could have done more damage. And that little germ of knowledge will linger in Grayven's metaphysique, a little chink in his armour to exploit in future...

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Except Paragon still ran away.

Which we know from Renegade invalidates anything and everything else so far as that is concerned.

 

[Ngamer11]

Except Paragon still ran away.

Which we know from Renegade invalidates anything and everything else so far as that is concerned.

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Running away means that he didn't try anything else. From what I saw, Paul demonstrated the ability to, even if only momentarily, incapacitate Grayven. Afterwards, he left, as if telling the New God of Conquest that he wasn't worth the effort of fighting and that Paul had better things to do. That's going to really irk Grayven. Grayven might be Paul's new archenemy; Paul hasn't had one since he got rid of both Klarion and Nabu.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Will Paul ever be able to understand Godspeech without relying on the Ophidian to give him a boost?

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Probably not, but he might get to the point where he can fake it.

Add "know" before the bold "you".

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maybe 'acting on it, directing' maybe add a comma there

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Darko]

Running away means that he didn't try anything else. From what I saw, Paul demonstrated the ability to, even if only momentarily, incapacitate Grayven. Afterwards, he left, as if telling the New God of Conquest that he wasn't worth the effort of fighting and that Paul had better things to do. That's going to really irk Grayven. Grayven might be Paul's new archenemy; Paul hasn't had one since he got rid of both Klarion and Nabu.

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Technically Boss Smiley could be considered his archenemy.

Truggs and Luthor may also count.

 

[lancelot]

Whatever happened with Dox no matter if it's a blue screen because 'NOT AS PLANNED', or because soul fuckery being super effective. From here out Dox is likely destined to be only a Rear Echelon Mother Fucker. Also the two still need a serious talk about Dox's hiring practices.

 

[jaelin910]

Except Paragon still ran away.

Which we know from Renegade invalidates anything and everything else so far as that is concerned.

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Uh, yeah, you got a citation on exactly how this works?
I ask because you might be right... or maybe OL kicked grayven's metaphorical teeth in and left, unharmed.

 

[Vanbers]

"Please don't do that."

"I do what I like."

"Does 'what you like' include starting a fight with the Embodiment of Avarice right here? Scott explained that spiritual communication thing you New Gods do-."

"He did not. He lacks the knowledge that would be required. Still, I can be satisfied that you are not wholly ignorant. But, no. I will not still my soul for your benefit."

"In that case we will speak with you in the manner in which you are accustomed."

A clear expression of disquiet on his face as we regard all that he is. The structures of his desires are more alive than those we are accustomed to, more bound up in the material, acting on it and directing it and in turn-.

"Banish your creature!" "You Are Not Worthy!"

"We are not so separate that one can banish the other, but since it offends you so much, I will make a temporary accommodation."

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This Grayven is infinitely less impressive than ReneGrayven. Then again, most Apokalyptians tend to be one trick ponies. Either all "HAIL DARKSEID", "*Generic Evil Badguy Noises*", or "I'm just so tragically misunderstood".

I can't tell if he disliked the Ophidian because it was looking at him, or if it's because he just got freaked out and angry.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Please don't talk like that. I understand that communication thing but-"

"FOOLISH MORTAL! YOU KNOW NOTHING!"

"Well fine, I'll talk your language."

"Oh source what the fuck get rid of it get rid of it oh darkseid what the fuck"

 

[Alasnuyo]

This entire chapter and the one before it is just OL and Grayven flexing on eachother, isn't it?

 

[Darko]

This entire chapter and the one before it is just OL and Grayven flexing on eachother, isn't it?

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A metaphysical dick measuring contest.

Grayven is the insecure one while Paul is the confident one.

 

[Vaermina]

Running away means that he didn't try anything else. From what I saw, Paul demonstrated the ability to, even if only momentarily, incapacitate Grayven. Afterwards, he left, as if telling the New God of Conquest that he wasn't worth the effort of fighting and that Paul had better things to do. That's going to really irk Grayven. Grayven might be Paul's new archenemy; Paul hasn't had one since he got rid of both Klarion and Nabu.

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Doesn't matter.

Conquest power wise we know running away gives the person who didn't run away the win.

 

[Prince Charon]

This entire chapter and the one before it is just OL and Grayven flexing on eachother, isn't it?

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A metaphysical dick measuring contest.

Grayven is the insecure one while Paul is the confident one.

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With New Gods, that's a serious duel in itself.

 

[CTrees]

A metaphysical dick measuring contest.

Grayven is the insecure one while Paul is the confident one.

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Paul has every reason to be confident in his.... Snake

 

[Hell's Razer]

Exactly how mad will Grayven be at Paul for doing this?

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If I am reading this correctly it was the equivalent of a flick on the forehead so... fuming?

 

[Silverias]

Grayven attempts dick measuring.

OL's snake proves superior.

 

[Darko]

Paul have every reason to be confident in his.... Snake

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His big, orange snake.

 

[Silverias]

Ugh, I totally missed that Darko made my joke before me! Not an attempt to steal joke! Sorry!

 

[Darko]

Ugh, I totally missed that Darko made my joke before me! Not an attempt to steal joke! Sorry!

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Don't worry about it, it's fine.

 

[Handlewithcare]

...still shipping it.

Actually, shipping it more, now.

Amongst other things because the misunderstandings when Paul meets Rene-Paul would be hilarious.

 

[Darko]

...still shipping it.

Actually, shipping it more, now.

Amongst other things because the misunderstandings when Paul meets Rene-Paul would be hilarious.

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Well Paragons relationship with Jade started after she tried to kill him, so we know he's not against dating people who commit violence against him.

 

[Chaoswind]

Well Paragons relationship with Jade started after she tried to kill him, so we know he's not against dating people who commit violence against him.

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More like he started talking with her out of guilt after he almost killed her...

 

[WereDragon]

3rd July 2012
10:29 GMT -5

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This entire 'confrontation' was one long example of someone mistaking politeness for weakness and failing to comprehend that they are vastly outclassed by the person they are trying to intimidate.

 

[Ngamer11]

This entire 'confrontation' was one long example of someone mistaking politeness for weakness and failing to comprehend that they are vastly outclassed by the person they are trying to intimidate.

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I wouldn't say Paul vastly outclasses Grayven. Other than that, I agree with your statement. Grayven is probably not used to anyone being polite with him. Everyone is either someone who can crush him (i.e. Darkseid), or someone he can crush (i.e. most mortals).

 

[Darko]

More like he started talking with her out of guilt after he almost killed her...

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Though he did speak with her before he almost killed her, and he also kissed her before that.