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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
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- self insert young justice
NightmareWarden
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I admit that Lois Lane is definitely a woman who can take any amount of sass from others, which makes me cool my jets when she dishes out sass. If this were a boxing match, that rebuke/counter would have her seeing stars though and I'd be cheering in the crowd.
I wonder if Lois has interviewed any of the surviving Sheeda.
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Chojin Patriarch
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Boy, is that going to be an awkward, confusing explanation. I presume she does know about Kal's little trip to Earth-666, and the alternate Kara. Still, 'I accidentally found an alternate Earth where the JSA are basically world-wide law enforcement, and something there rattled me' should cover it...
Well, it's your peace of mind to throw away or not.
Try... More of a non-lethal hero. Sort of recalibrate his responses on Earth to not go straight for the railguns.
Yeah, on other planets, he's fairly well-known... Especially after he leaves. But on Earth? 'Cake Man'.
Meanwhile, in Lex's Office: "Why is he just sitting there? Watching... Just watching..." His left eye twitches as his nerves wear thinner and thinner...
Yeah, being a quarter of the planet away should make it a bit harder for Kal to overhear. He's not Silver-Age 'hear a gnat fart from a parsec away' levels, after all.
Heh. Now she can cut loose without tarnishing Clark's image of her, huh?
Goddamit, OL.
Did you manage to break Superman by accident?Heh, telling the defences not to kill on sight, huh? Supes might be a bit miffed if Miss Lane gets singed...
OL, what did you say? See, this is why the League is wary around you! Forget the giant orange snake and the tendency towards lethal force. You broke Superman! By talking!Lois? Feel free to bounce his head off a wall for a few minutes, it'll make you feel better.
OL? Mouth. Stop. Stop with the words please.
Surprised you didn't do the 'zipper closing' gag with a construct. But then, this is no time for comedy...
Neither does anyone else. I suspect you could build a few houses with the bricks that would be shat.
Don't play the fool, OL. You're already halfway there already.I'm wondering why that would trigger him the way it has... Please, do elaborate, OL.
Ah... Yeah, that might be a little depressing...
Well, never know what good living and a little super-science can do for you...
Well. No wonder he's depressed. He's not given the matter that much thought, has he? No wonder he's feeling blue.
I'm betting that'll be a 'I'll cross that bridge when I come to it' process. Or at least he planned to do that, until OL started talking...
I mean, at worst, he can start spreading a little grey dye into his hair at super-speed... For a while at least. At least one older Superman did just that.
It's a very human thing to do, ignoring it until it actually becomes a problem. You can't be blamed for that.
...Yeah, I think enough folks have pointed out the possible continuity error there. No doubt this chapter'll be getting tweaked later, huh? For now, let's carry on as is!Though I don't think Lois has quite the character to become, say, Superwoman or something like that...
Probably for the best. Not sure who he could go to next. Probably not a good idea to visit Billy. Who could be his number three choice?
Lexcorp? This is going to be...
Something.Ah, showing a little professional courtesy, OL?
Thankfully, he should settle down in a day or two. Maybe go on a bit of a walkabout...
True. I really don't think Clark's in the mood for Lex's shit at all right now.
And then Lex starts banging his forehead on the desk, wondering what god he pissed off to suffer like this...
Right then... Not OL's finest showing in a team-up. Let's hope Clark sorts his head out before long, maybe has a chat with Batman and/or Diana, along with a bit of commiseration about dealing with OL... But on a more serious note, OL may need to think about what he says to people now. I know he wants to make things work better, but sometimes... People don't want to work better. They're comfortable where they are. And most people don't like to have to think about the things they don't want to think about...
theaceoffire
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I'm not entirely sure they know.
Even if test shows that they could be theoretically immortal or something, none of the individuals who have been exposed to the formula have lived that long so far! What if there's some unknown or subtle soul corruption, or mental degradation, or other side effects?
All he can guarantee is that it would be much better than being a stock human to have that formula applied.
This is not an uncommon problem by the way, there are lots of people who gain immortality but then end up dying within the same time range as a normal unenhanced human in the first place because they start taking stupid risks and end up paying the price.
It's like something on their head says 'Oh, I can't die? Prove it!' and they go suicidely stupid.
woweed
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I mean, given that the Renegade and Paragon are very different guys, with very different ripple effects in the world, it probably won't. There are plenty of people who lived in Paragon but didn't in Renegade. Alan comes to mind. Plus, even if it was pre-destined...Supes has never struck me as the type to give in to "predestination".
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Handlewithcare
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OL. Breaking Supermem with casual dialogue since two thousand bleventeen.
I can't stand Lois in most incarnations, she is just so obnoxious. But the sass here was great!
I can't stand Lois in most incarnations, she is just so obnoxious. But the sass here was great!
Mr Zoat
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Jumped-up elementals damn it, past me. I can't trust you with anything.
I'll fix it this afternoon.
Thank you, corrected.
No, but it probably comes from the same place. If anything, it's based on Lois's internal rant in Metropolitan Man, when she realises that he values watching television with her over saving the lives of two children who burned to death down state.
Mquz
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Oh… and here I was thinking the inconsistencies - Superman's new behavior, Lois not being Dannered, etc… are all a result of Desire pulling a more subtle mind illusion thing on OL again… considering this would be the third time it's happened with Mother Mercy and Doc Smiley. But no, one is just a continuity error and Superman's is real.
That said, I think there's a clear reason why Superman does what he does, and that's because he has a small town mentality again. He has the mentality of a neighborhood superhero and he's just saving what's most important to him personally. Humans tend to be focused basically on just their local support groups, and Superman saves his friends and those he cares about. If he tries to go global, he'd probably have difficulty caring about the complicated situations that would get him involved in.
Industrialization and the ability to mine fuel en mass isn't necessarily a good thing. Paul is a bit of an accelerationist in that he believes there's no problem that can't be solved with technology, but at the same time more technology can be the cause of problems, simply from the discord it can create in a society.
The only way to be certain what you're doing is actually a good deed is either to do all the research perfectly and understand the relevant social difficulties or to work strictly on a local level and only go outside of that for global emergencies. Otherwise you might just end up with all the faults of the British Empire.
That said, I think there's a clear reason why Superman does what he does, and that's because he has a small town mentality again. He has the mentality of a neighborhood superhero and he's just saving what's most important to him personally. Humans tend to be focused basically on just their local support groups, and Superman saves his friends and those he cares about. If he tries to go global, he'd probably have difficulty caring about the complicated situations that would get him involved in.
Industrialization and the ability to mine fuel en mass isn't necessarily a good thing. Paul is a bit of an accelerationist in that he believes there's no problem that can't be solved with technology, but at the same time more technology can be the cause of problems, simply from the discord it can create in a society.
The only way to be certain what you're doing is actually a good deed is either to do all the research perfectly and understand the relevant social difficulties or to work strictly on a local level and only go outside of that for global emergencies. Otherwise you might just end up with all the faults of the British Empire.
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Darko
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Well he's against a group that consists of a woman with a connection to the Greek gods and a guy blessed by Greek, Roman and Abrahamic entities, so those are some places to look into.
Plus working with a demon may have played a part in it.
moralrelativity
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I have a different view on this. I don't think it's much of a jump and it felt pretty easy for me to connect the dots.
One of the things that I love about Mr Zoat's writing is that he doesn't waste words providing unnecessary detail. Have there been jumps where I've desperately wanted more detail? Absolutely. But that's a small price to pay for a fic that moves along so well.
woweed
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I feel the thing it's important to keep in mind with Superman is, he never wanted to be, well, Superman. He wanted to help people, and he does that, as much as he can. It just happens that "as much as I can" has a very different meaning when you can hear a crime in progress from miles away. But, at the end of the day, he still thinks of himself as that kid from Smallville, just trying to help out where he can. The rest of the time, well, he has a life. And, really, why shouldn't he? Cops and firefighters get days off too. I'm reminded of the phenomenal Astro City, where we see Samaritan, whose basic pitch is "what if Superman, but no Clark Kent". He spends all his time helping people...And he's a neurotic wreck who basically feels no real connection to the people he saves and hasn't had anything like actual friendship in years. It says something when we find out in one issue that his greatest dream in life is...Flying. As in, just flying around for fun, as opposed to "flying towards the next disaster". Superman may have made himself a symbol, but, at the end of the day, he's still a person, and he knows that, if he tried to be Superman all the time, he'd go utterly insane. So, he basically just lives like a normal guy. When there's a problem he notices and can help with, he helps. But, again, his threshold for "problems I can help with" is much broader then most people's.
And, as for working on a broader scale, well, he tries his best but...Hey, quick question: Do you feel personally qualified to go out to the middle east, pick a country, and start trying to systematically and lastingly fix the local instability? Not even speaking in terms of raw power here. Do you know the language? The local politics? If not, do you have a way to learn without relying on a heavily biased source like America's intelligence agencies? Are you prepared to deal with the culture shock of trying to take someone down for a "crime" that isn't actually locally illegal? Are you aware of where the line is between your vigilantism and something that'll be construed as an act of terrorism or war? Frankly, Superman, outside his power, isn't any more qualified then most people, and, when he screws up, well....Maybe it's best he stick to somewhere he knows how to navigate by virtue of living there.
Really, this kinda hits at the fundamental moral question of the character, power and how we apply it. Should Superman be bound by the rule of law? On the one hand, if yes, that means he has to allow all sorts of state-sanctioned violence. Police brutality, torture, genocide, all legal. But, if we say no (and I, a believer no person should be forced to obey unjust laws, would feel inclined to)...Well, it's a bit different when the person in question can rip fighter jets in half. Revolution of the people is one thing, revolution of the PERSON? That has some pretty clear potential to backfire.
And, as for working on a broader scale, well, he tries his best but...Hey, quick question: Do you feel personally qualified to go out to the middle east, pick a country, and start trying to systematically and lastingly fix the local instability? Not even speaking in terms of raw power here. Do you know the language? The local politics? If not, do you have a way to learn without relying on a heavily biased source like America's intelligence agencies? Are you prepared to deal with the culture shock of trying to take someone down for a "crime" that isn't actually locally illegal? Are you aware of where the line is between your vigilantism and something that'll be construed as an act of terrorism or war? Frankly, Superman, outside his power, isn't any more qualified then most people, and, when he screws up, well....Maybe it's best he stick to somewhere he knows how to navigate by virtue of living there.
Really, this kinda hits at the fundamental moral question of the character, power and how we apply it. Should Superman be bound by the rule of law? On the one hand, if yes, that means he has to allow all sorts of state-sanctioned violence. Police brutality, torture, genocide, all legal. But, if we say no (and I, a believer no person should be forced to obey unjust laws, would feel inclined to)...Well, it's a bit different when the person in question can rip fighter jets in half. Revolution of the people is one thing, revolution of the PERSON? That has some pretty clear potential to backfire.
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Duke Long
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In that, the conclusion was partially that Lois was a hypocrite, but here Superman has just talked to someone who, at least to some degree, actually lives that lifestyle. Interesting difference.
FreeGod
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Personally that bit never seemed right to me. If you read an obituary in the average day not all that many people die of Superman preventable causes.
Either Superman has instant speed which means that saving them doesn't really interupt his date. Or most accidents are such that he doesn't really stand any chance of getting there in time.
mastermenthe
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Moments like this remind me Zoat is
Mr Zoat
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You can't end the global slave trade twice.
Senevri
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Neither can Superman. That's why he sticks to Metropolis, has a day job etc.
Well, not in a healthy way, anyway. There has been several Elseworlds full-time supermen, some of them even roughly sane, but none of them anything like as happy.
Radix
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You know this looks really bad on OL on top of him consulting with "National Socialists, and the fact he has committed almost genocide. Also the fact that he mirdered Dr Fate. It would be very easy to portray him as a corruptive influence to the heroes.
Mquz
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Are you saying ending the global slave trade was the fault of the British empire? And are you phrasing it as a good or bad thing. Either way, there's still something to be said about not overextending your power so that you don't have to be everywhere, all the time, all at once, because something is eventually gonna give, which was really it's biggest fault.
Mr Zoat
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Okay, revised version up.
Yes. Sorry about that, but I think it was best for everyone.
Doccer
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Shouldn't that be 20 or so? Pretty sure coworkers will notice that fossil that's been here 80 years is younger and fitter than most of the staff.
A bit late. Are you completely sure you want to get your Dannering while your boyfriend's still in his prime and your well past it?
Radiant Knight
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That's probably just a Death of Superman reference. He gets better.
Mr Zoat
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They didn't notice that he was fitter than most of the staff when he joined the Planet.
Yes.
No one. Zeus is still fine sponsoring William, and Hephaestean is fine with allowing it.
Zig
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Zeus finished his degree and got his powers back? What happened to Susanoo?
Vaermina
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The problem with that is there's no way Zoat can do that scene justice because it's convincing Superman he's wrong about his core beliefs.
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Mr Zoat
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Stsword
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You know, I think it's a pity that Zoat is apparently keeping with the "Danner formula isn't inheritable" from the book.
I think the DC version is just more interesting.
Iron Monroe in the present day was noted "looks young, until you look into his eyes. His eyes are old," back in Damage.
His son Walter looks like evil Clint Eastwood, and has some superhuman strength and durability.
Walter's daughter Kate may or may not have any effect from the Danner formula- She's got the whole John McClane/Rocky Balboa action hero "takes a licking and keeps on ticking" thing going on when a person really ought to be going straight to the hospital, but it's a comic book so that may or may not mean anything.
And Kate's son Ramsey has superpowers, but not the same, his invulnerability at least in part requires mental effort- A sucker punch will hurt him more than an attack he actually sees coming. He also tends to glow.
Did he just inherit the metagene from someone not related to Danner? Did his inheritance from the Danner formula activate his metagene and mold his powers into something similar to the family inheritance? Or did the effects pf the Danner formula his great great grandfather received mutate over the generations?
I think the DC version is just more interesting.
Iron Monroe in the present day was noted "looks young, until you look into his eyes. His eyes are old," back in Damage.
His son Walter looks like evil Clint Eastwood, and has some superhuman strength and durability.
Walter's daughter Kate may or may not have any effect from the Danner formula- She's got the whole John McClane/Rocky Balboa action hero "takes a licking and keeps on ticking" thing going on when a person really ought to be going straight to the hospital, but it's a comic book so that may or may not mean anything.
And Kate's son Ramsey has superpowers, but not the same, his invulnerability at least in part requires mental effort- A sucker punch will hurt him more than an attack he actually sees coming. He also tends to glow.
Did he just inherit the metagene from someone not related to Danner? Did his inheritance from the Danner formula activate his metagene and mold his powers into something similar to the family inheritance? Or did the effects pf the Danner formula his great great grandfather received mutate over the generations?
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AR760
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If that was the conversation, then Superman's reaction still makes no sense.
Actually apply that logic. Emergency responders, doctors, and other professionals in such fields could save more people if they worked more often, left their homes, volunteered in poor countries, and so on and so forth. However that line of argument doesn't work because that would essentially require that they be nothing more than inhuman machines with no personal relationships, no personal interests, and no life outside of saving people.
Which is not only not how people are built to function, but can actually be counterproductive given the risk of burnout and additional psychological deficiencies and disorders capable of arising from the stress, monofocus, and other related factors of such a life.
Notice how few, if any people give other emergency responders and professionals in the human aid adjacent agencies shit over them not sacrificing everything for the sake of their "mission"? Especially since most people don't do it either. I mean, it's not like authors or bankers or other professionals are incapable of becoming trained to help people in some capacity either, but nobody is giving them shit for choosing to do something else with their time and their lives either.
Which is why given any thought, this line of argument should be easily something Superman should be able to response to OL about. Especially since Superman is no god, and has neither omnipotence or the omniscience to be able to see all ends and be capable of all things. Orange Lantern is psychologically unhealthy as fuck, and is operating heavily outside normal baseline, but Superman isn't, and should easily be able to point that out.
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