General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

[Imperator Sol]

I am so glad I never picked up that book, dear god, wtf.

Click to shrink...

...V5 was my first introduction to Vampire, after Bloodlines.

The shame burns.

 

[shadowdice]

V5 has some of the stupidest ideas in that book. Especially on how vampires think and behave.
Because god damn some of the most stupid ideas on high humanity vampires are in there.

Spoiler: V5 Date Gifts Examples

Spoiler: V5 Dates Examples

Some of them are ok, good even like "a night of superhuman parkour" or " a signed photo from celebrity" but who the fucks thinks most of them are a good idea?

Click to shrink...

Outside of the fact that most of those high humanity date gifts require an elder or stupidly powerful/connected person I am reminded of the fact that I can't think of a straight priest in all of WOD

The Cainite Heresy book began with a priest raping a monk for no particular reason in universe, and him being corrupt could just as easily been shown with his monologue about getting his father hanged to make sure he got the full inheritance

 

[Gereh]

V5 has some of the stupidest ideas in that book. Especially on how vampires think and behave.
Because god damn some of the most stupid ideas on high humanity vampires are in there.

Spoiler: V5 Date Gifts Examples

Click to shrink...

All of those are stupid or should be almost impossible to produce, but... "A vial of their own Vitae"? How brain-dead do you have to be to think that is a good idea? Honorably mention to giving a Malkavian elders journal away because it "only" has erotic "dreams" in it, for being almost as stupid (especially since we all know that vampires don't dream). But that is probably only long-term issue while giving having a vial of your vitae around is short-, medium- and long-term issue.

Also how is that the only really good idea of all of those is part of the low-humanity ones? Namely the twins as a snack aka "Prepare a nice meal, Vampire Edition"

 

[shadowdice]

V5 has some of the stupidest ideas in that book. Especially on how vampires think and behave.
Because god damn some of the most stupid ideas on high humanity vampires are in there.

Spoiler: V5 Date Gifts Examples

Spoiler: V5 Dates Examples

Some of them are ok, good even like "a night of superhuman parkour" or " a signed photo from celebrity" but who the fucks thinks most of them are a good idea?

Low humanity ones are more justifiable but low humanity doesn't mean you suddenly forget normal human interactions and norms. It means you don't care about them if it means you need to do some dark shit. Helena isn't going to give his lover some shit fingers or decorated skull or bloodstained wooden stake.

Spoiler: Low Humanity gift examples

Don't get me started on "Tiktok" play.

Click to shrink...

going over high humanity

high humanity gifts. Almost all of them require vast age or connections

• jeweled vial of vitae. Outside of the many possible issues of blood bonds and rituals done to you using the vitae, I can kind of see it in the "If I ever go missing for a long period of time, break this open to use with a trusted thaumaturge I know to track me down" way
• werewolf fang implies elder or someone who is absurdly connected/great at fighting if it isn't a fake
• copy of a forgotten Shakespeare is a Why Haven't You Taken This To Someone thing where a real fan of Shakespeare who isn't an asshole would want it to be proven to be a lost Shakespeare and published. Also implies vast age or connections
• moonlight blood flowers does sound like something that would exist in WOD even if it would be highly lilith coded and I don't see why a high humanity vampire wouldn't just give out normal flowers. Again, connections and age is a factor here
• lost da vinci, same issue as the Shakespeare one of WHY AREN'T YOU SHOWING THIS TO THE WORLD and the connections/age
• Pope letter is the usual edge and jokes about gay catholic priests
• Malk Elder journal is of erotic stuff feels like it would be super messed up because Malk Elder and is almost definitely a book of prophecies written in euphemisms
• the tooth brushes are made of fur? otherwise okay
• I have gone over in another post how it should be impossible for a Tremere to have gotten a hold of and preserved that blood because of timeline issues. A lot of the overall book reads like someone who doesn't know VTM or history
• celebrity photo is again Age/Connections not a thing for the average vampire who is presumably a neonate

high humanity dates

• one and two work
• tzimisce tattoo artist and high humanity are not words that go together in any normal circumstances given TZIMISCE
• rat catching tournament is okay
• underground art gallery...why not a normal one
• stargazing session works
• tea party works as a "Meet my dad/mom" scenario
• Regency party if they are not a big LARPer is another age/connections thing
• parkour works
• I don't put Brothel Orgy and date in a sentence together under normal circumstances even if I can kind of see it with a vampire as a shared feeding thing, but I wouldn't associate it with high humanity

low humanity gifts

• skull, kind of works if both are low humanity and sounds like a Giovanni or other necromancer thing
• severed finger is just Ed Gein
• twins is blatantly stolen from interview with the vampire
• torture is just a thing and I don't see why it would be a thin blood
• the rest are just fucking weird

 

[Maragas]

going over high humanity

high humanity gifts. Almost all of them require vast age or connections

• jeweled vial of vitae. Outside of the many possible issues of blood bonds and rituals done to you using the vitae, I can kind of see it in the "If I ever go missing for a long period of time, break this open to use with a trusted thaumaturge I know to track me down" way
• werewolf fang implies elder or someone who is absurdly connected/great at fighting if it isn't a fake
• copy of a forgotten Shakespeare is a Why Haven't You Taken This To Someone thing where a real fan of Shakespeare who isn't an asshole would want it to be proven to be a lost Shakespeare and published. Also implies vast age or connections
• moonlight blood flowers does sound like something that would exist in WOD even if it would be highly lilith coded and I don't see why a high humanity vampire wouldn't just give out normal flowers. Again, connections and age is a factor here
• lost da vinci, same issue as the Shakespeare one of WHY AREN'T YOU SHOWING THIS TO THE WORLD and the connections/age
• Pope letter is the usual edge and jokes about gay catholic priests
• Malk Elder journal is of erotic stuff feels like it would be super messed up because Malk Elder and is almost definitely a book of prophecies written in euphemisms
• the tooth brushes are made of fur? otherwise okay
• I have gone over in another post how it should be impossible for a Tremere to have gotten a hold of and preserved that blood because of timeline issues. A lot of the overall book reads like someone who doesn't know VTM or history
• celebrity photo is again Age/Connections not a thing for the average vampire who is presumably a neonate

high humanity dates

• one and two work
• tzimisce tattoo artist and high humanity are not words that go together in any normal circumstances given TZIMISCE
• rat catching tournament is okay
• underground art gallery...why not a normal one
• stargazing session works
• tea party works as a "Meet my dad/mom" scenario
• Regency party if they are not a big LARPer is another age/connections thing
• parkour works
• I don't put Brothel Orgy and date in a sentence together under normal circumstances even if I can kind of see it with a vampire as a shared feeding thing, but I wouldn't associate it with high humanity

low humanity gifts

• skull, kind of works if both are low humanity and sounds like a Giovanni or other necromancer thing
• severed finger is just Ed Gein
• twins is blatantly stolen from interview with the vampire
• torture is just a thing and I don't see why it would be a thin blood
• the rest are just fucking weird

Click to shrink...

Just for the continuation sake, here are the low humanity "dates". Most of them sound straight from Sabbat (which is antagonist only in V5, go figure!) rather than just low humanity. Like, I would only recommend Haunted House date and maybe Dominated Mortals dancing since it would be funny. Maybe the corporate one for the funsies.

Spoiler: Low Humanity Dates

It also has several scenarios and ideas on chronicles that are simply...stupid.
Like a Camarilla Court where you need to marry a Court member to stay in the city, and the Prince traps newly arrivals. Meaning either Prince is incredibly powerful like Mithras or about to die.

Spoiler

Or Anarchs being Anarchs aka stupid. Arguing that monogamy is patriarchy Camarilla bullshit and romance must happen in polygamy.

Spoiler

Blood Stained Love is very very confusing and stupid book.

 

[LeftWaiting]

• tzimisce tattoo artist and high humanity are not words that go together in any normal circumstances given TZIMISCE

Click to shrink...

So iirc a lot of Tzimisce are now either Independent or affiliated with the Camarilla in V5, and unless stated otherwise are assumed to be mid-to-high Humanity.
edit:
TLDR the Sabbat kind of imploded.

 

[shadowdice]

So iirc a lot of Tzimisce are now either Independent or affiliated with the Camarilla in V5, and unless stated otherwise are assumed to be mid-to-high Humanity.
edit:
TLDR the Sabbat kind of imploded.

Click to shrink...

Becoming independent or camarilla affiliated does not make me trust them and a large section of the clan becoming mid/high humanity is just a sweeping ass pull like much of what I dislike in V5

I would not trust a Tzimisce tattoo artist to be above board and not fucking around unless my PC personally knows this Tzimisce on a deep level, nor would I trust a Tremere tattoo artist using blood thaumaturgy to do the same thing that the Tzimisce is doing with vicissitude.

 

[Gereh]

Just for the continuation sake, here are the low humanity "dates". Most of them sound straight from Sabbat (which is antagonist only in V5, go figure!) rather than just low humanity. Like, I would only recommend Haunted House date and maybe Dominated Mortals dancing since it would be funny. Maybe the corporate one for the funsies.

Spoiler

Click to shrink...

9 is directly taken from an older Sabbat book. It's "Rat Race" aka one of the Wargames/"Game of Instinct". Just that the Sabbat gave them more than just a Stake to defend themselves.

You know what, it would explain a lot if we imagine that they looked at those "Game of Instincts" as inspiration since those could also be super ridiculous stuff.

I would not trust a Tzimisce tattoo artist to be above board and not fucking around unless my PC personally knows this Tzimisce on a deep level, nor would I trust a Tremere tattoo artist using blood thaumaturgy to do the same thing that the Tzimisce is doing with vicissitude.

Click to shrink...

I would say as a rule of thumb you should never let anyone make any permanent changes to your PC, unless you are 110% sure that you can trust them, no matter clan/sect/whatever.

 

[vighzs]

So the new Hunter the Parenting side-episode is out. Can I get input from people with far more experience with the setting

Spoiler

Rather liked how they portrayed a human turning into a Fomori

 

[shadowdice]

I am here looking at the fact that Big D's dad apparently was there when George Washington was around and I don't even disbelieve that it happened

 

[Nervaqus987]

I am here looking at the fact that Big D's dad apparently was there when George Washington was around and I don't even disbelieve that it happened

Click to shrink...

I'm going to refer to his father as "Big C" until I get something else.

 

[shadowdice]

So the new Hunter the Parenting side-episode is out. Can I get input from people with far more experience with the setting

Spoiler

Rather liked how they portrayed a human turning into a Fomori

Click to shrink...

So what exactly is your question?

The events are rather simple, just a bane possession. The stain on his shirt is the Wyrm symbol and I forget the name but worm people are a form of the bane possession

O'Tolley's is a Pentex subsidiary

Edit

My group has ended up with a Hunter campaign now as we cycle through 3 games run by different people

The Hunter one has a Pyrokinetic FBI Florida man, an IRS Accountant with true faith in Pythagorism, and a poor abused Romani hacker NPC who threw himself to the mercy of the government to get away from multiple vampire clans and werewolves

GM: *looking at Numina* wait…Gypsy had Numina? What even were they

Me: I think you'd really need to look for the mechanics unless you find a PDF for gypsy

GM: Oh thank god it's not on the wiki. This is a relief

Me: They do have kinfolk and connections to vampires

GM: this hacker is a kinfolk.

Me: Why did you make him Romani?

GM: Because I wanted the joke of him explaining that Blood Gifts aren't a thing

Accountant: My character's name is Robert and he always wears blue

 

[vighzs]

So what exactly is your question?

Click to shrink...

I did not have a question, merely wanted to see if someone more knowledgable spots something interesting.

I did not notice the stain as an example.

 

[NoFunposter]

an IRS Accountant with true faith in Pythagorism

Click to shrink...

>A Bean Counter denied his Beans.
Tragic

Spoiler

 

[Bommel]

So the new Hunter the Parenting side-episode is out. Can I get input from people with far more experience with the setting

Spoiler

Rather liked how they portrayed a human turning into a Fomori

Click to shrink...

So what exactly is your question?

The events are rather simple, just a bane possession. The stain on his shirt is the Wyrm symbol and I forget the name but worm people are a form of the bane possession

O'Tolley's is a Pentex subsidiary

Click to shrink...

Not just any Fomori, but a specific and unique kind of Fomori; a Burgermen.

 

[Imperator Sol]

Stumbled upon a new WoD story over on SB if anyone's interested. As of this time there's only two chapters, yet it has a strong start, it's decently readable, and has potential. I'll be keeping an eye on this one as well.

Los Sueños by Night

Being a cop in Los Sueños means seeing fucked-up shit. Being a SWAT Team Leader means facing the absolute worst humanity has to offer. David "Judge" Beaumont has always known this. Cartel executions, terrorist attacks, brutal murders—he's seen it all, and it could always be explained. There was always some twisted, logical order to the madness.

Until one raid changes everything.

Now he feels a drive he cannot ignore.

By day he works trying to make the city a safer place

By night, he hunts the things that prey upon mankind.

Click to shrink...

 

[Wwind]

So the new Hunter the Parenting side-episode is out. Can I get input from people with far more experience with the setting

Spoiler

Rather liked how they portrayed a human turning into a Fomori

Click to shrink...

A good example of 'junk' fomori. Not really dangerous to anything besides a completely helpless, unarmed civilian.
Though in general, do take into account that it is Hunter centric. Where hunters are PCs and everyone else is NPC, giving them some leeway.
If we are talking objectively their very first encounter with Sabbat would have been their last too. its very silly to have 3 combat oriented vampires unarmed. Same with the fomor, not only would it NOT keep standing in front of the gun, but would brain Door with a chair or something from the back.

===

On unrelated note, watched something new that may work as inspiration if you want to show some amgry shifter.
Prooi - 2016 movie about a giant maneating lion in Amsterdam.
Pig Hunt - your picture perfect skull pig. 2008.

 

[Ragura]

https://www.myminifactory.com/users/gamegodterrain has an excellent set of werecreatures for Canada.
Some would need custom rules, but Formori powers would be an easy substitute for NPCs

 

[Dromuthra]

So, I've never personally played WoD, but have done a fairly large amount of wiki-diving, and there's a question that keeps bugging me every now and again. Could a vampire with Mytherceria (The Grandest Trick) use that power to become human for a day and then Awaken? If so, what would happen when the day ended?

 

[Bommel]

So, I've never personally played WoD, but have done a fairly large amount of wiki-diving, and there's a question that keeps bugging me every now and again. Could a vampire with Mytherceria (The Grandest Trick) use that power to become human for a day and then Awaken? If so, what would happen when the day ended?

Click to shrink...

That's a very interesting question.
Given that it's in the World of Darkness, it's unlikely going to be fun for them because of some unforeseen consequences (which might possibly be comedic in how they happen).

Likely similar to what happened when the Tremere clan was created.
The Tremere Clan came about when a bunch of Awakened Mages tried to become immortal and ended up losing all of their human Mage magic capability, and the Thaumaturgy they were left with, or had to develop in responce to losing their magic, and it's a pethetic, pale immitation shadow of the real thing.

So at best that Vampire might get access to Thaumaturgy disipline, but likely won't.
Moreover, it's considered impossible to Awaken anyone simply on command (sure it's possible by mentoring someone for a long time to increase the odds, but even that's luck based and simply increasing the chances slightly), because if thy could, the Mages and/or Technocrasy would have Awakened most of humanity ages ago.
So even if the Vampire was human for a day, the actual chances of them Awakening are so damn close to zero it would be considred an exercise in futility, even if the Vampire had eternity to try.

There might be also be the possibilty that the process of Awakening completely turns them human again, which is fantastic if that was their goal, but comes with several downsides.

1. They lose all of their Vampire abilities, because they're simply a living mortal human again. It might be worth the tradeoff, but they need to start from the ground up again, so it will take them a bit of time before they're on a similar level of power again (and are likely much squishier than an undead bloodsucker).
2. They no longer have any of their old Vampire allies. Because they're now human they fall under the catagory food, and have a massive amount of information about Vampires, making them a gigantic walking masquerade breach, so they're extremely likely to be hunted down. Moreover they likely don't have any mortal allies yet, so they're incredibly vulnerable.
3. Being a former Vampire means that a lot of mortals likely will be out for their head, for all the really horrible things they did while they were a Vampire, or just because they hate them for whatever reason and they're now much more vulnerable. And similar things likely count for other groups that hate Vampires, such as Werewolves.
   There would also be a lot of powerful groups will try to get their hands on them to figure out how a Vampire turned back into a human again. Likely by doing horrible and incredibly painful experiments on them.

 

[shadowdice]

That's a very interesting question.
Given that it's in the World of Darkness, it's unlikely going to be fun for them because of some unforeseen consequences (which might possibly be comedic in how they happen).

Likely similar to what happened when the Tremere clan was created.
The Tremere Clan came about when a bunch of Awakened Mages tried to become immortal and ended up losing all of their human Mage magic capability, and the Thaumaturgy they were left with, or had to develop in responce to losing their magic, and it's a pethetic, pale immitation shadow of the real thing.

So at best that Vampire might get access to Thaumaturgy disipline, but likely won't.
Moreover, it's considered impossible to Awaken anyone simply on command (sure it's possible by mentoring someone for a long time to increase the odds, but even that's luck based and simply increasing the chances slightly), because if thy could, the Mages and/or Technocrasy would have Awakened most of humanity ages ago.
So even if the Vampire was human for a day, the actual chances of them Awakening are so damn close to zero it would be considred an exercise in futility, even if the Vampire had eternity to try.

There might be also be the possibilty that the process of Awakening completely turns them human again, which is fantastic if that was their goal, but comes with several downsides.

1. They lose all of their Vampire abilities, because they're simply a living mortal human again. It might be worth the tradeoff, but they need to start from the ground up again, so it will take them a bit of time before they're on a similar level of power again (and are likely much squishier than an undead bloodsucker).
2. They no longer have any of their old Vampire allies. Because they're now human they fall under the catagory food, and have a massive amount of information about Vampires, making them a gigantic walking masquerade breach, so they're extremely likely to be hunted down. Moreover they likely don't have any mortal allies yet, so they're incredibly vulnerable.
3. Being a former Vampire means that a lot of mortals likely will be out for their head, for all the really horrible things they did while they were a Vampire, or just because they hate them for whatever reason and they're now much more vulnerable. And similar things likely count for other groups that hate Vampires, such as Werewolves.
   There would also be a lot of powerful groups will try to get their hands on them to figure out how a Vampire turned back into a human again. Likely by doing horrible and incredibly painful experiments on them.

Click to shrink...

Mytherica is also related to fairies so I'm not sure if they have a soul that can awaken (I forget if the Maeghar just have fairy blood or are unaware changelings turned before they went full fairy)

 

[Dromuthra]

That's a very interesting question.
Given that it's in the World of Darkness, it's unlikely going to be fun for them because of some unforeseen consequences (which might possibly be comedic in how they happen).

Likely similar to what happened when the Tremere clan was created.
The Tremere Clan came about when a bunch of Awakened Mages tried to become immortal and ended up losing all of their human Mage magic capability, and the Thaumaturgy they were left with, or had to develop in responce to losing their magic, and it's a pethetic, pale immitation shadow of the real thing.

So at best that Vampire might get access to Thaumaturgy disipline, but likely won't.
Moreover, it's considered impossible to Awaken anyone simply on command (sure it's possible by mentoring someone for a long time to increase the odds, but even that's luck based and simply increasing the chances slightly), because if thy could, the Mages and/or Technocrasy would have Awakened most of humanity ages ago.
So even if the Vampire was human for a day, the actual chances of them Awakening are so damn close to zero it would be considred an exercise in futility, even if the Vampire had eternity to try.

There might be also be the possibilty that the process of Awakening completely turns them human again, which is fantastic if that was their goal, but comes with several downsides.

1. They lose all of their Vampire abilities, because they're simply a living mortal human again. It might be worth the tradeoff, but they need to start from the ground up again, so it will take them a bit of time before they're on a similar level of power again (and are likely much squishier than an undead bloodsucker).
2. They no longer have any of their old Vampire allies. Because they're now human they fall under the catagory food, and have a massive amount of information about Vampires, making them a gigantic walking masquerade breach, so they're extremely likely to be hunted down. Moreover they likely don't have any mortal allies yet, so they're incredibly vulnerable.
3. Being a former Vampire means that a lot of mortals likely will be out for their head, for all the really horrible things they did while they were a Vampire, or just because they hate them for whatever reason and they're now much more vulnerable. And similar things likely count for other groups that hate Vampires, such as Werewolves.
   There would also be a lot of powerful groups will try to get their hands on them to figure out how a Vampire turned back into a human again. Likely by doing horrible and incredibly painful experiments on them.

Click to shrink...

Thanks! I was thinking about an OC insert story who knows all the deep lore, but is stuck being a shitty vampire when they could have awakened. Somehow getting back to humanity would be a goal, and the clusterfuck of becoming human and handling the aftermath would make for a good midpoint/climax.

Mytherica is also related to fairies so I'm not sure if they have a soul that can awaken (I forget if the Maeghar just have fairy blood or are unaware changelings turned before they went full fairy)

Click to shrink...

If I'm reading things right they only need to be fairy-blooded, though the initial experiments did use actual faeries iirc.

 

[shadowdice]

The world of future darkness campaign I'm currently running has my currently human players paranoid as to what ancient evil is related to their family history as they compete over their ancestral castle

Mercenary player has done research that has him know they are related to Elizabeth Bathory and Vlad the Impaler through ancient noble marriages and that the castle (which is over 75 acres not counting the forest) has never been truly taken without there being a traitor within but has been burned to the ground or partially destroyed before. It was originally a Roman fort which might have been built on top of a cave system that had a pre Roman religious cult there

Private investigator played character discovered that due to having been extensively shelled in WW1 their great grandfather rebuilt it in the 1920s/30s while having dragged HP Lovecraft over for artistic ideas

He proceeded to discover alongside a cousin of his that the century old diagrams had mad German script and an unknown language alongside detailed diagrams of ritual mechanisms in three different handwritings, one of which was Lovecraft

Private Investigator: *realising what I am talking about when I describe very sharp pictograms in a language he does not recognize, one of the pictograms being a spider, a dragon, and a large cat of some kind. another being an open mouth* Out of universe, are these the Triat. Is this castle on top of a Caern

Me: the one symbol you have deciphered is Dream web

Private Investigator: Fairies might be involved but I think this is the Triat

 

[Bommel]

Thanks! I was thinking about an OC insert story who knows all the deep lore, but is stuck being a shitty vampire when they could have awakened. Somehow getting back to humanity would be a goal, and the clusterfuck of becoming human and handling the aftermath would make for a good midpoint/climax.

Click to shrink...

That does sound like a story I like to read.
I'm convinced that being a Vampire is fundementally pretty crappy (the whole thing is a curse, so at it's core it's not meant to be fun for those who have it), so a main character who's whole goal is to get rid of their vampirism sounds like a decent story premise, and them dealing with the messy consiquenses of them trying and later succeeding sounds incredibly fun and interesting.

 

[Gereh]

So, I've never personally played WoD, but have done a fairly large amount of wiki-diving, and there's a question that keeps bugging me every now and again. Could a vampire with Mytherceria (The Grandest Trick) use that power to become human for a day and then Awaken? If so, what would happen when the day ended?

Click to shrink...

This would be super weird, "The Grand Trick" is per definition a lie

Article:

The Kiasyd can fool himself into believing that he is not, and has never been, a vampire. This trick lasts for a short time, during which the character gives up all blessings (but loses all drawbacks) of being Kindred.
He retains all of his other knowledge, but the magic of the Grandest Trick deftly prevents him from figuring out the truth (notes that explain the truth vanish, knowledge of clues that would lead him to it don't make sense, etc.).

Source: V20 Corebook

Meanwhile to Awaken you need to have an Epiphany that suddenly lets you understand the world and most importantly yourself as well as the potential that lies in yourself

Article:

This Awakening comes upon us like a lightning bolt, a so-called Epiphany in which the sleeping world bursts into clear, sharp focus. That which we'd believed before is revealed to be untrue. The person we had seen in the mirror until then stands before us, both alien and familiar. In that flash of insight, we realize just how powerful we truly are inside.

Source: M20 Corebook

So those are completely opposite to each other. Since if you were to awake, you would understand that you are a vampire, which mean "the Grand Trick" is no longer working, which means you aren't mortal anymore, which means you can't awaken. Now this is Mage so the fact that this just created a Paradox does not mean it is impossible, but still would be super weird

Even if we ignore that this should be impossible and assume it was somehow possible the chance would be astronomical low. Since you can't really force awakening (and even if it works you will not be happy with what the one who was forced to awake would turn into). That said there is another option "Lilith". Lilith may or may not be a Verbana Archmage as well as a Vampire (Also Caine may or may not be a Mage originally, at least his dagger is a powerful catalyst and come on you are telling me a non-Mage brought the "concept of murder" into the world?) and according to older sources (Gehenna Book, my bleoved) she can turn vampires into Lilim "creatures with divine essence and mortal bodies" <- which may or may not be what a Mage is.

Moreover, it's considered impossible to Awaken anyone simply on command (sure it's possible by mentoring someone for a long time to increase the odds, but even that's luck based and simply increasing the chances slightly), because if thy could, the Mages and/or Technocrasy would have Awakened most of humanity ages ago.

Click to shrink...

i'm pretty sure that "forceful awakening" will get you one of "The Mad" and I was pretty sure there was an Antagonist like that, but I can't find the Quote for it. (Maybe I'm thinking of Awakening, tho.)

I'm convinced that being a Vampire is fundementally pretty crappy (the whole thing is a curse, so at it's core it's not meant to be fun for those who have it)

Click to shrink...

Isn't that true for everytype of being in WOD? It's all personal horror for a reason.

 

[Bommel]

Isn't that true for everytype of being in WOD? It's all personal horror for a reason.

Click to shrink...

I've met soma players (most of them online though) who disagree and think that you not only can find true happyness as a vampire, but some of them think that it's great, and that the benefits far outweigh the backdraws (most of whom seem pretty delusionaly in my opinion, but I'm not trying to start fights so I'm leaving it at that), which is why I'm clarifying it as my opinion.

Spoiler: In the words of Hunter: The Parenting

"Yes, being a vampire is a fine deal! Until you notice the many caveats."

View: https://youtu.be/wWfo0hg7biU?t=2353

 

[Maragas]

Honestly, being truly happy as a vampire isn't that strange. Those who survive, after a few decades, do settle into a comfortable place as long as they aren't knee deep in the Jyhad. We don't see much of them since they are boring narratively but decent chunk of vampires just spend decades without seeing another vampire in Camarilla.

Even Methuselahs can be happy. Ask Helena, she was having time of her unlife with her lover turned Ghoul before he died when she wasn't busy fighting with Menele. Or Ankla Hotep who just traveled around for centuries.

But benefits outweighting the negatives? Nah. Unless your life is horrible already, becoming a vampire is only going to make things worse for you for decades minimum. Hell, it is still a bad choice even if your life is terrible. Metaphysical downsides do exists and as a vampire you can be diablerized or otherwise more likely to get into situations where your soul is in danger. (Or getting turned into a living furniture until somebody ends your existence.)

 

[chillyAvian]

You probably aren't getting into heaven as a vampire, which most Cainites probably laugh off until they hear about the Baali, and go "Oh. Demons are real. Oh. My soul is probably damned to hell."
An eternity as a blood sucking monster doesn't sound fun when you know there's nothing good waiting for you when you turn to ash.

 

[shadowdice]

You probably aren't getting into heaven as a vampire, which most Cainites probably laugh off until they hear about the Baali, and go "Oh. Demons are real. Oh. My soul is probably damned to hell."
An eternity as a blood sucking monster doesn't sound fun when you know there's nothing good waiting for you when you turn to ash.

Click to shrink...

we have far more examples of vampires dying and going to the Underworld than Hell which functions very strangely when it comes to Transcendence (accepting death and moving on).

of course, Demon says they made the underworld anyways though it is separate from Hell.

Then there is Oblivion and the Abyss.

 

[Gereh]

Honestly, being truly happy as a vampire isn't that strange. Those who survive, after a few decades, do settle into a comfortable place as long as they aren't knee deep in the Jyhad. We don't see much of them since they are boring narratively but decent chunk of vampires just spend decades without seeing another vampire in Camarilla.

Click to shrink...

Unless you have reached Golconda, you still have your Beast to deal with, can you really be comfortable with an ever nagging hunger in the back of your mind? Or knowing that you could lose control and go into a Frenzy? We tend to not think about it because the roll is so low but even "Lighting a cigarette" is a Rötschreck Test (according to V20 corebook), it is only difficult 3 so the chance of success are high, but even if you succeed that just means you can "ignore" the beast telling you to flee and not that you don't feel it.

I guess you can if you have time to settle and get used to it, but the "you" that could get "used" to that. Now you could argue that the person that becomes "used" to it, isn't really the same as they were when they were turned... But then we get into phillosphy "is anyone ever the same person, they were 10 years ago?" Probably not, but the personality changes after adapting to being a Kindred are much more severe than how a humans personality would change in a decade (imo).

So nah, being a Kindred sucks. There is a reason it is called a curse. That being said I still stand by the fact that being a Mage is also not great, nor is being a Werewolf, Wraith, Changeling or Demon.

On my personal scale of best to worse fate: Werewolf > Mage > Vampire > Demon & Wraith

Haven't played Changeling enough to place it.

Even Methuselahs can be happy. Ask Helena, she was having time of her unlife with her lover turned Ghoul before he died when she wasn't busy fighting with Menele.

Click to shrink...

I'm pretty sure Helena just thinks that she was happy, it's like when you think back to something that happened a long time ago and you don't remember anymore the worries you had back then (or now think they were trivial), doesn't mean you were truly happy back then. Yes I know her backstory says that she was happy back in Carthago, I still don't believe that for a second, that just Helena being delulu.