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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. ForeverShogo

    ForeverShogo Not too sore, are you?

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    To echo earlier posts, from what has been revealed the oppression faced by White Martians varies from city to city. With that variance pretty much entirely being from the whims of whichever Red Martian is in charge at the time.

    We know that at least one city allows intercolor marrying. Which obviously implies other cities insist you stick to your own color.
     
  2. w34v3r

    w34v3r Versed in the lewd.

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    ...Because the guardian programming made it look like a viable vector. By grabbing the reds and training them Karmang thought the greens and whites would then be more inclined to respect them as teachers. The guardian programming is both what causes that phenomena, and how martians can identify color in this context.
     
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  3. Coda

    Coda Versed in the lewd.

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    Unnecessary quote.
     
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  4. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
     
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  5. Pinklestia

    Pinklestia Well worn.

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    Hate breeds hate after all.
     
  6. Valiran

    Valiran Seeker of fluffiness

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    That honestly depends on how bad his personal experiences were. Some of the stories I’ve read about how black people were treated in the southern U.S. have made me literally murderous with rage, and I’m as white as it gets! If he’s seen or experienced the worst parts of anti-White Martian bigotry, then I find it entirely unsurprising he feels so much hate towards the Reds.

    Exactly this.
     
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  7. Itypeslow

    Itypeslow Corpses for the Corpse God!

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    This should be: "and he wants to"
     
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  8. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Experienced.

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    Mr. Zoat, when I checked your story only thread here, I noticed that Gude-Willie Waught wasn't threadmarked.
     
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  9. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
     
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  10. Threadmarks: Field Trip (part 13)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    8th January
    22:14 GMT


    Mister B'lanx oozes self-satisfaction as the captured warship in front of me gradually changes from blue to orange.

    "We overran the naval depot before they could get most of their ships in the air."

    T'Pexor gestures to a ship sitting in a docking cradle, tubes containing some sort of food slurry connected to several damaged parts. "My colleague L'atroma was able to bypass their anti-phasing shielding and assault the crew directly. It seems that Manhunters don't train for that."

    I nod. "They are more of a law enforcement organisation than a military."

    I look over to the tunnel to the exterior where the remains of one of the ships that did is being… What, salvaged? Stripped for raw material? They're living creatures, so… Are they edible? They wouldn't be cutting it up if it were possible to restore it. The labour crew is comprised of Greens, while a handful of armed Whites act as their overseers.

    "Yes." Mister B'lanx's tone conveys his distaste. "And now we must learn from their failure before they do." He extends his right arm towards another ship. "We're increasing their weapons loadout at the cost of habitation. I don't intend to send them on patrols, and the martians Karmang has freed don't have the same dependency on the proximity of others that other martians do."

    "Who do you intend to send them against?"

    "I had assumed that I would be sending them against the force the Manhunters would send to dislodge us. But if they're dithering, then I can use them to support a White uprising in another city."

    "Wouldn't that leave you vulnerable?"

    "We have good intelligence coming from fellow Whites in every city. My force would return here before anything the Planetary Council sent could reach us." He floats over the shipyard towards an area where a White Martian wearing the Hyperclan red circle is demonstrating the use of captured weapons to a group of other Whites. "And attacking the Manhunters' ships while they are separate and in dock will be far easier than destroying a unified fleet."

    True… "Do you have enough trained personnel to crew them?"

    "I was trained as an auxiliary before the last Prelate come into power and abolished the auxilia. All the other surviving auxiliaries are teaching volunteers now. Or forcibly extracting schematic patterns from the surviving Manhunters. They're not ready yet, but they will be by the time I'm ready to push things."

    "About Karmang's attempt to negotiate with the Planetary Council…"

    "I don’t see how that's relevant to me."

    "At the moment, he's the only person formally allied to the White Martian cause who can remove the Guardian programming. And given what happened at the monastery he attacked, I doubt that there will be other volunteers. If you want your followers to be able to live in low population conditions for prolonged periods of time, you need his support."

    "Or we could move the fleet as we go, basing it in friendly White-controlled cities. The only other benefit is immunity to rötschreck, and it is impractical to use fire on the surface. T'Pexor, what do you make of this?"

    "Karmang has millennia of wisdom guiding him. Regardless of the personal debt we owe to him, I do not believe that he would abandon the cause he founded for personal advancement or… Make a traitor's peace. But personally, I prefer war."

    "Why?"

    "Karmang has not had to live under the Reds and the Greens as we have. I do not think that he appreciates the value of wide scale violence for changing the minds of the martian species."

    "You want to change the Greens' minds?"

    "We're doing this to benefit White Martians everywhere. Even in cities which were not as oppressive as this one, White Martians suffer insults and violence not just from the government but from the Green and Red populations at large. The best way to stop that, the best way to make sure that they never forget what we can do, is to destroy their armies. To march into the cities they control and publically execute their leaders. That will teach them that they will suffer the same fate if they try to go back to their old habits far better than anything else we could try. Including having the Planetary Council peacefully passing power over to Karmang."

    Mister B'lanx stops in the air as he considers the point. "You may well be right. I know this little fight has made more of an impression on me than almost anything else I've done. And I suspect that the same is true for our Reds as well."

    I shake my head. "And then what? How do you intend to reorganise the planet when three fifths of a population is even more scared of you than two fifths are scared of the Planetary Council now?"

    "Why should I care?" He rises in the air, getting above local obstructions to get a clearer view of this part of the city. T'Pexor and I follow him. "I'll keep this city. Rule it myself, in the interests of my fellow Whites. We're already integrating the Greens with essential skills into our government, and training Whites to fulfil every necessary role."

    "And the rest of the planet?"

    "I'll attack anywhere that oppresses Whites, but beyond that I don't really care."

    "Your Red prisoners?"

    "Why are you so interested?"

    "I'm trying to understand your reasoning, and to make sure that you've thought this through. These are weighty issues, and a leader needs to give it due consideration. Will they be allowed to live here-?"

    "No. No. Once the matter is decided, I will either exile them to another city or have them build a new city for themselves and leave them to their own devices."

    "I am prepared to offer them a place of exile now." The Psion Wombworld isn't much to look at, but even after the bombardment it's a more hospitable place than Mars. "If you simply want them taken off your hands. I can ensure that they will not return for the duration of the conflict."

    "No, they're useful to me where they are now. And I'm positively giddy at the idea of forcing them to do the same work they forced us to do. I certainly won't send them to a friendly land merely for the convenience of being rid of them."

    "You're not worried about an escape, or a rescue attempt?"

    "Fire might not be much use on the surface, but their prison has enough incendiaries that any attempt by them to leave would be… Immolatorially stupid."

    "I see."

    Reminds me a little of the ending of Small Gods. Vorbis dies, and Brutha takes his body to the leaders of the invading army and surrenders Omnia. He offered to pay reparations for Omnia's prior actions, to return territory they'd seized and to disarm the nation… Only for the Omnian army to form up on the edge of the beach anyway, and the invaders to form up to fight them despite the whole fight being rendered completely unnecessary. Karmang isn't Brutha, but he honestly hated those priests and he still didn't kill most of them. J'onn believed that the only reason that the Planetary Council weren't openly talking about making some fairly significant concessions was fear of the uprising, and B'enn seems set on proving their worst fears right.

    "If that's your final word, I will inform Karmang. Could I give him some idea of how long he has?"

    "If the Manhunters don't move first, I want to move on Mal'ren'ranna in ten days. The fighting there was inconclusive, but the Manhunter garrison has few ships."

    "I understand. I'll leave you to your preparations."

    "Yes. Go. It would be helpful if Karmang saw things my way. I disagree with his approach, but I have a great deal of respect for him. All White Martians who truly know him do."

    I nod politely. "I will be certain to pass that on."

    Mother Box, hush tube.

    Ping.

    8th January
    17:18 GMT -5


    I step out into the Hall of Justice, shaking my head as J'onn looks around.

    "Not good. I think I'm going to need to borrow M'gann."
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  11. BR549

    BR549 This is filth! FILTH!!

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    And so Grayven concludes that he must dispense his duty as a god, and smite.
     
  12. Gantradies

    Gantradies Not too sore, are you?

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    *headesks* the idiot leapt without thinking again- called it, his hand-picked lieutenants are incapable of long-term planning past "kill the reds".

    my prediction, is without Gravy's intervention,assuming the Hyperclan survived a full-scale planetary civil war, it woulda been a "new boss, same as the old boss" scenario, whatshisface goes back into stasis for a few millenia, wakes up, throws another temper tantrum at the whites simply recreating the old status-quo with them atop, decides to start modifying/empowering the Greens instead whilst cutting a bloody swath through the White leadership...

    basically, im reading him as one of those people who's extremely smart, and equally as dumb...
     
  13. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    Well, this probably isn't going to end well for anybody.
     
  14. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    Well, they should have made those significant concessions.
     
  15. Phrexia Unbound

    Phrexia Unbound Oooh...that's good.

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    You don't say?
     
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  16. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

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    I nod. "They are more of a law enforcement organisation than a military."

    The labour crew is comprised of Greens, with a handful of armed Whites acting as their overseers.

    "We're increasing their weapons loadout at the cost of habitation.
    (This use is usually one word... I could be wrong)

    Interesting term. Coined entirely by White Wolf's development team? Odd that the rings should choose that over something else...

    To march into the cities they control and publicly execute their leaders.

    Rule it myself, in the interests of my fellow Whites.
    (This flows better. Up to you.)
    Hmm... Calling in backup. This situation is on a knife's edge, and neither option is entirely desirable...
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
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  17. Ct613hulu

    Ct613hulu Experienced.

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    I may be wrong but isn't this somewhat of a repeat of what happened the first time Karmang interfered in Martian society? He empowered a tight knit group of individuals selected on basis of there race. Once this group was out from under his direct control they used their unique advantages to acquire a position of dominance and restructure Martian society in a way that placed their race at the top while oppressing the other two races.
     
  18. nick012000

    nick012000 Gone for Good

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    Basically, except that the Whites probably aren't strong enough to score a decisive victory, so in most of the other DC universes (e.g. the comics) the Whites fought to the point of mutual (near) extinction instead.
     
  19. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
    The SI knows the term, and it's the closest to what B'enn said.
    In this instance, I'm ahead of the curve.
     
  20. Old Knife

    Old Knife Not too sore, are you?

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    Well there is a literal Martian Goddess coming to smack some senses into these idiots.


    She's been ascended right?
     
  21. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    No, her programming was undone.

    Although I recently read a Suicide Squad comic that had a conversation along the lines of "He's not a god, he's a white martian." "Same diff."

    It could be seen as an analogue transformation, but since it works through a different process to achieve different results, hardly the same.

    "My demands are simple. All Red Martians will leave all high political offices and the Planetary Council will disband. I will be recognised as the ruler of Ma'aleca'andra. I will chose new leaders for each city, and _new laws will be put in place to ensure colour equality_ henceforth. Once I am satisfied with the situation, I will eliminate my office and return to my studies."

    Of course nothing stops the whites from changing the laws after he hibernates again, or the laws still technically being on the books but the authorities ignore them, but at least he's trying to do better this time.
     
  22. Ct613hulu

    Ct613hulu Experienced.

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    I am basing my comments on the latest story post where it appears that significant portions of the Hyperclan are not supporting Karmang's plan for color equality and are instead well on their way to establishing a new authoritarian order in which they rule and the other colors of Martians are oppressed or outright exterminated.
     
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  23. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    Well that's presuming that Karmang gave magic powers willy nilly and didn't put in back doors so that they follow his orders or else.

    He might be thinking that after it stops raining the brains of the disobedient, that the survivors won't want their heads to explode, or that he'll just recruit martians whose brains are still on the inside.
     
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  24. Ct613hulu

    Ct613hulu Experienced.

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    Has there been any indication that Karmang is keeping his followers on such a short leash? It seems like he was perfectly willing to indulge their murderous impulses in every scene that he and his immediate followers appeared. It also seems that the followers outside of his immediate presence are operating independently with essentially non-existent coordination and are organized into independent power structures with minimal loyalty to Karmang personally.
     
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  25. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    There's a difference between talking shit about your boss when they're not there and doing it to their face.
     
  26. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    Karmang's stated plan is for him to be Supreme Poobah, apoint the city leaders himself, and announce laws of color equality

    We then saw that one of the Hyperclan plans to play king of the hill with a city.

    So which seems more likely?

    That Karmang, the telepathic 20 thousand year old archmage hasn't noticed that the people he gave superpowers to are a bunch of assholes?

    Or that his plan for world conquest includes contingencies for dealing with assholes who don't want to do what they're told?
     
  27. Ct613hulu

    Ct613hulu Experienced.

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    My perspective is that Karmang making a crucial mistake that causes all of his plans for Mars to go terribly wrong once he is out of the picture would make sense as a similar repeat of his earlier mistakes leading to original rise of the Red Martian Sorcerer-Priests.

    What do you think Karmang is doing to ensure that the Hyperclans remains loyal to his vision?
     
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  28. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    I've already stated what I think he did just four messages above.

    "Well that's presuming that Karmang gave magic powers willy nilly and didn't put in back doors so that they follow his orders or else.
    He might be thinking that after it stops raining the brains of the disobedient, that the survivors won't want their heads to explode, or that he'll just recruit martians whose brains are still on the inside."

    Even Shazam put in the backdoor that he can take the powers back whenever he wants, why anyone would assume that the guy trying world conquest is more trusting than Shazam, I have no idea.
     
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  29. Ct613hulu

    Ct613hulu Experienced.

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    I recognized your earlier argument and would agree that any direct rebellion against Karmang himself is probably doomed to failure. My point was that this only applies when Karmang is still around and that it cannot prevent the Hyperclan from creating a society that will not follow Karmang's vision of an egalitarian Martian civilization. The ability to destroy any of your followers who oppose your will and the ability to lead those followers in the creation of a stable and ethical society are two very different things.

    Karmang thought that he had created an organization that would follow his vision once he was gone when he originally empowered the Red Sorcerer-Priests. He is now doing the exact same thing with the Hyperclan.

    The key idea is what happens to Mars once Karmang believes that he has fulfilled his mission and leaves or is killed.
     
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  30. l---erddad---l

    l---erddad---l Wait, google can see this?

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    While this is correct, there is an interesting debate on what you should be able to expect in an ideal, moral world and what you should expect in our world, and there are complex debates about what kind of rebellion works best (rebellion including small things, like marches).

    To be fair to Karmang if he didn't put in an easy backdoor, Shazam needed to learn directly from somebody doing things that Shazam wasn't comfortable with and not being able to simply take away that mans powers (Teth Adom) before he decided to put in that backdoor by routing the power through himself, since last time he set up the connection between Teth and his gods directly (IIRC).
     
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