1. Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. If you wish to change your username, please ask via conversation to tehelgee instead of asking via my profile. I'd like to not clutter it up with such requests.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. A note about the current Ukraine situation: Discussion of it is still prohibited as per Rule 8
    Dismiss Notice
  7. The rules regarding NSFW links have been updated. See here for details.
    Dismiss Notice
  8. The testbed for the QQ XF2 transition is now publicly available. Please see more information here.
    Dismiss Notice

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

Loading...
  1. Akatsunami

    Akatsunami The Potatoist.

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    5,896
    Not really? He always knows what he wants, you can't really make him want things he doesn't, or stop wanting what he wants, that's pretty much it as far as defense goes.

    Any manipulations based around things he already desires, like say protecting people, should be pretty trivial, he might realize or not, but it doesn't change the fact that it could stick.

    As we are seeing here, he is not sure, but knows he might have been screwed with, still, he keeps proceeding in this vein regardless, likely because his want for certainty ranks higher than his want for avoiding acting on someone's manipulation.
     
  2. Pinklestia

    Pinklestia Well worn.

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    5,553
    Likes Received:
    29,972
    Hence why he should have checked for brainwashing; did he forgot his checklist on what to do when dealing with people that seems very convincing?

    Heck he was dead, in Hell and Heaven.

    Lasso of truth should be one of the steps.

    Doubt is basically a unused Power Ring source, ever read Red Son?

    DC surely have some great smoth talkers.
     
  3. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    14,696
    Likes Received:
    729,010
    I don't think he has one of those.
    Yes, but I'm not sure how it applies. The Green Lantern Marine Corps failed to contain Superman due to him being Golden Age Superman, and some of them not being able to maintain the intensity of concentration the exotic construct they were trying to use required. None of them really doubted the rightness of their cause.
     
  4. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    8,239
    As far as I understand that’s what the Ultraviolet ring corps in new 52 is supposed to be - a ring corps run by a Lovecraftian monstrosity (a living galaxy) that runs off of negative emotions like doubt, lust, terror (doesn’t quite make sense), etc... and makes rings that run using them.
     
  5. ForeverShogo

    ForeverShogo Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Messages:
    453
    Likes Received:
    2,723
    Well, on the earlier Alan stuff . . . If I remember correctly.

    Alan was pretty faithful to his wife, even with her being dead, and was basically waiting for old age to do its thing so that he could be reunited with her in the afterlife. Even though Paul knew this . . . Well, it doesn't really matter what other people want if it clashes with what he wants. Especially after his enlightenment. So he wasn't about to just let Alan die.

    And somewhere along the way Alan just rolled with it and accepted that Blue Ring. Don't remember what made him move away from the plan to see his wife again. Probably stuff being said about afterlives or whatever making his plans more or less impossible with all the Hellblazer stuff mixed in.

    His wife probably went to Hell. Maybe she got fed into one of those machines that eat souls and shit out manufactured goods. So for all we know, she could be some random demon's chair. Or a tasteful little ottoman they rest their feet on after a long day of torturing the damned.
     
    Ardy likes this.
  6. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    14,696
    Likes Received:
    729,010
    I heard about that, decided it was stupid and then stopped thinking about it. I might run Nekron as a Lovecraftian, but I'm not interested in adding even more colours.
    Not exactly. He was faithful to her even though she was clinically insane and the marriage was nullified. After she died he didn't really reflect on the subject of his newly rediscovered singleness.
    Alan mostly realises that what he was doing probably wasn't sensible or healthy, but his resolve never faltered. Alan's borderline suicidal behaviour was more about how he wanted to die that what he was planning on doing after he died.
    I've seen DC comics do Hell in both ways. In Another Nail, the Joker went to Hell upon his death. But in The Spectre, the Spectre refused to kill a murderer because the man was insane and so couldn't be held responsible for his actions. So it's quite possible that if the Joker died the Joker personality would be expunged and Jack Napier, failed comedian but basically decent guy, would go to Heaven. With Dissociative Identity Disorder... No idea. It might depend on whether Thorn Canton counted as a separate individual or just as a new set of behaviours. And it's quite possible that after spending most of her life on Themyscira that she went to Erebus.
     
  7. Pinklestia

    Pinklestia Well worn.

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    5,553
    Likes Received:
    29,972
    You didn't understand my comment.

    I said DOUBT is the unused emotional exprectrum due to how powerful is on DC.

    Just a few words were enough to make Red Son Superman change his plans and let Lex Luthor win.

    Boss Smiled did to Oh El the equivalent of
    Why don't you trap the whole World in a bottle, Superman?
    to the greed snake in a human body.
     
    Prince Charon and Vorian like this.
  8. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    14,696
    Likes Received:
    729,010
    It wasn't just that. Superman had already been having doubts, and said as much when he noted to Wonder Woman that ships didn't bother having life rafts any more.
    It's more of a Yoko factor, really.
     
  9. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    8,239
    Is this a reference to something specific (the spoiler?)
     
  10. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,714
    Likes Received:
    9,865
    In Superman Red Son, Superman landed in Ukraine I believe, and grew up as Stalin's heir to the Soviet Union.

    President Lex Luther of the USA was the last holdout, when they and one other country was the only countries left on Earth that hadn't gone communist.

    One of Soviet Superman's greatest failures, in his opinion, was that Brainaic shrank a city, and Superman couldn't figure out how to free them.

    So Lex's note, "Why don't you just put us all in bottles?" caused Soviet Superman to equate his own actions with Brainiac, so he forfeited. Lex Luther won.
     
  11. Ardy

    Ardy I trust you know where the happy button is?

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Messages:
    641
    Likes Received:
    3,468
    Enlightenment means he is aware of his own desires at all times, that he is immune to corruption from the orange light, and somewhat resistant to the anti-life. There’s no generic resistance to mind control effect there
     
  12. Pinklestia

    Pinklestia Well worn.

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    5,553
    Likes Received:
    29,972
    And if he was immune to have doubts he would be a monster anyway.
     
    Ardy likes this.
  13. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    8,239
    He can compare desires before and after? Unless he has no desire to do so? A desire not to do so? Remember, perfect memory allows him to remember all his past desires? Supported by his ring - while his head can be fucked with, the ring giving him perfect memory backup is harder to do so to, being an unhackable supercomputer.

    Edit after thinking it out more: Though that might not matter if he could explain the brainwashing by having developed the thoughts himself after hearing Smiley talk. Also, he temporarily lost his enlightenment in the brainwashing machine, which would keep him from noticing sudden changes in his psyche.

    A possible sequence of events: he got captured, unenlightened, brainwashed, convinced that the ideas implanted came from Boss Smiley simply talking, explaining them when he regained his enlightenment, then regained his enlightenment. The brainwashing may have been some sort of soul editing - unlike everyone else’s Paul’s soul is vulnerable against foreign magic. His “soul brain” lacks any firewalls. The only way to unbrainwash him is if he denies the brainwashing and snaps out of it - if it conflicts with existing soul structures. That conversation with Boss Smiley might have just been testing if the brainwashing would hold. Even after rejecting Boss Smiley, the parts of the brainwashing he didn’t mind too much might have stayed, and Boss Smiley started talking with the minor be careful brainwashing rather than the major serve me brainwashing, which might be easier to resist. The conversation would have been to make him accept the brainwashing, which is why he was trying to get verbal consent.


    He is actually more vulnerable to this kind of magical/soul brainwashing - remember when Paul got exposed to hell and got demonified?
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  14. Threadmarks: Hoard (part 3)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    14,696
    Likes Received:
    729,010
    11th January
    09:39 GMT


    Since I don't have anyone at the other end, I'm forced to come fully into the Honden. My starting location is as it was last time, but now I'm certain that this is just my mind's attempt to turn what is actually here into something concrete. Like… When they showed the Q Continuum in Star Trek Voyager. Just one interpretation, though one that is completely valid so long as you remember that it isn't the only one.

    Not wrong or dishonest, just easier to deal with. Like organising a reference library by the Dewey Decimal system rather than just putting the books in a big pile.

    I'm not surprised that I'm manifesting in here as a snake rather than a humanoid, or… I don't know, a vague presence or something. And I feel my skin made of my desire for wholeness and integrity, and the blood which supports it made of the memories of early injuries and ancient, ancestral weighting given to physical states which promoted survival. If I stare deeply, I could follow those threads back to the individuals who first bore the genetic mutations which caused those behaviours.

    "If you're quite done with your navel-gazing?"

    Hinon appears as Hinon, wearing her desire for her Hinonness as her robes. I could probably look deeper, but… That would be rude. And counterproductively unnecessary. I'd like her to open up, to work with her on realising her ambitions, and I'm sure that she's still enough of a Guardian to resent a mortal stripling like me being too assertive about it.

    "I'm not sure that snakes have navels."

    I flow down a not-corridor, my tongue of ambition and curiosity flicking out. Morris Brocklesby's desires have a particular taste to them. His absolute abhorrence of death, his fear of his own decay… Yes, I know those drives well.

    I touch the Ophidian's presence for a moment, communicating as I do exactly how gosh darn much I appreciate not having to worry about things like that any longer.

    If they'd pushed us, we'd have eaten our way through the Silver City, wouldn't we?

    Yes, my Agent.

    Stupid angels. / Stupid angels.

    Ah, here we are! The taste of his desire, mixed with the desire of one of the Endless… I can't put it in other terms, but once tasted never forgotten. The only place like it I found in Sol is my toilet on the moon, which means that either one of them visited me while I was us, or they just really needed to use the facilities.

    Fawney Rig, here we come!

    I step
    out onto the grass outside of the fully restored manor. Wearing my formal robes, I note. Something about how I think of myself, probably. But… They're not really the clothes for traipsing across a National Trust property in England during the winter, even if an environmental shield means that I don't really have to worry about either the mud or the cold. I switch the robes out for something a little more appropriate: a tweed suit, waistcoat, shirt and tie, all with the orange sigil embroidered somewhere upon the material.

    Hinon returns to the corporeal universe a moment later, appearing as she did when we left. Parts of her robes glow with orange light, pulling away from her body almost like they're… Sticking to the place we just passed through. She glances at them, a faint hint of nervousness in her eyes as they fall into place.

    "Hmpf. Not the most comfortable way to travel."

    "I can only suggest complaining to the Ophidian. Or to the entirety of Creation, given whose desires make up that place."

    "And don't you think that I won't." She looks around, seeing the manor for the first time. "Hm."

    "Would you like a guided tour, or do you want to just wander around on your own for a bit?"

    "Hm."

    "I'm sorry, Controller Hinon, my ring's translator appear to have broken. Would you-?"

    "How in the Triarch's name did that even work?" She looks up at me. "Do you have any concept of the effort my people put into studying the Endless?"

    "No? Was it… A lot?"

    "Humans." She shakes her head. "A bizarre combination of ambition, brilliance and shocking superficiality."

    "You know full well whose fault that is."

    She stares up at me, her expression hardening. "Yees."

    "Though I am working on the superficiality. Also… While there's no one around…" Though this is a national trust property, this isn't exactly peak tourist season. "Could you possibly check-?"

    "Oh, for-. Uhr." She raises her hands, orange mists flowing around us for a moment. "Nothing. No detectable overflow, or 'weakening of the veil' or whatever else you've convinced yourself is happening."

    "Thank you."

    "Hm. Well, while we're here-."

    I frown at her. "Is this what you're actually like? Or is the whole crotchety grandmother thing a mask? I've been wondering for a while."

    "Is the impudent grandson façade what you're really like, or."

    "Yes-." She stopped talking before I could interrupt. I smile.

    She doesn't. Instead, she walks towards the wrought iron gates and passes through them without disrupting the ironwork at all.

    "Ah, excuse me?! Ah, you can't-!"

    I jog towards the ticket office, giving the woman inside a friendly smile. "Don't mind her. I'm paying."

    "Oh-" She turns my way with a smile. "-right. Yes, but… There are rules about magic-. People being allowed on the site. We had an.. incident a while ago…"

    I look at Hinon's departing back. "What..? Do you think she is?"

    Her eyes widen, her right hand covering her mouth in horror. "Oh God, is she just-? I thought-."

    "No, she's an alien. I just wondered how much training you get on a job like this."

    She reaches down and pulls up a laminated sheet from below her desk. Simple drawing of the sorts of thing that might turn up, clear labels for each one and a green-yellow-red danger rating. Fae, demons and John Constantine.

    "Is that booth warded?"

    "I think so?"

    I bow my head. "I'll get it upgraded tomorrow. Are you supposed to report things like this?"

    "Actually…" She frowns. "I don't think we have to report aliens. Um."

    I shake my head and I take the… Hm. Hinon should qualify as an OAP, shouldn't she? Take the fifteen pounds and eighty pence out of subspace and slide it under the window. "Feel free to report it. Our visit isn't a secret."

    "Okay. Um, are you..? Orange Lantern?"

    "One of them, yes. Was it the ring or the glowing orange eyes which gave me away?"

    "Oh. Um, the manor's not about to explode or anything, is it?"

    I bow my head. "Not to the best of my knowledge, no. But I better go and keep an eye on Hinon just in case. Do you have a guidebook?"
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  15. Bigreader

    Bigreader Doom. Boom!

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2017
    Messages:
    928
    Likes Received:
    5,475
    What does that line mean?
     
  16. w34v3r

    w34v3r Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,617
    Likes Received:
    3,946
    I love it when people are genre savvy enough to warn the help about John 'FUCKING' Constantine.
     
  17. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    2,149
    Likes Received:
    33,434
    Don't miss the link here, folks, it'll help make sense of things.

    Good to see he has at least some awareness of his previous encounter, even if he doesn't remember properly.

    And more than a little concerning. I suspect anyone not marinated in Orange Light like she is would not have come through in one piece...

    And she is really marinated in Orange Light, if she's talking like that...

    Hinon: "Watch the sass, boy."

    Hinon: "What did I just say about sass?"

    :D Of course. And I expect he's tagged with the highest possible danger level? No, no, of course he is! :rolleyes:

    Ah, British politeness at its finest. Hopefully Murphy isn't listening right now.

    Some fun interaction with Hinon here. Love the snark-fest.
    And my turquoise marker went unused? I feel positively redundant. ;)

    Likely a reference to the White entity, currently curled up in a demiplane inside Earth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  18. Belenus

    Belenus Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    1,100
    Likes Received:
    28,912
    Damnit! I suppose I had too much hope and not enough desire.
     
    ChestBurster and RichardWhereat like this.
  19. Twilight666

    Twilight666 I trust you know where the happy button is?

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    2,856
    o_O:rolleyes:
    ...
    :):D
    ...
    Ironically England knows what the most dangerous of those creatures is!! And they don't even know about the whole Lord of Balance!! (or whatever he calls himself)
    :cool::cool:
     
  20. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Experienced.

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Messages:
    2,860
    Likes Received:
    17,209
    I think when Paul mentions humans being the fault of the Guardians, he is either referring to the White Entity, the fact that humans exist is because of love relationships between the Endless and Maltusians, or both. I admittedly don't know much about the Endless/Maltusian thing, so can someone who does post a summary of what happened in that story?
     
  21. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    5,520
    Likes Received:
    20,782
    Welp, I guess we now know someone better able to control their desires then Paul.

    Dawww, isn't that cute.

    I give it 37% at most before the Voice of God showed up and obliterated you from existence.
     
    Otto von Saurion likes this.
  22. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    8,239
    Why is this place public? Didn’t it belong to a secret society in active use till the 90s? Is Moris Brockleby still alive? Shouldn’t he be in hell instead of here? Do desires stick around places people live?
    Also, I don’t think OL ever explained the history of this place to Hinon. There was no recent explanation of who Moris Brockleby was (no link either).
     
  23. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    8,239
    No helmet of fate, so at most a lord of chaos.
     
    Ardy likes this.
  24. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    8,239
    Eh... she seems at most about as good at it as Paul is, but not better. She did have the whole clothes fraying going on at the end and found it uncomfortable.

    Um... people went over this already in previous chapters... Heaven isn’t necessarily protected by the voice of god - He seems to have just let it run. Not sure he really cares what happens to it at this point. I don’t think Paul would have, or even could have eaten all of heaven. The Ophidian would likely not have been able to take out the voice of god (if he got involved). Eaten his way out of heaven, though... (what he seems to be implying) probably, especially if he just went straight for the exit with no unnecessary violence - and left everyone who left him alone alone. I don’t think most angels cared about him, and those that did attack would either respawn or be considered to be against the Presence (such as that one king who was taken down).
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  25. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    2,149
    Likes Received:
    33,434
    Your answers, inside a neat little spoiler to save space:
    Because after Alex Burgess died, it went to the public?

    Up until 1988 or so, when Dream escaped. And that was over twenty years ago (in universe, it's 2011). Yes, the 90's were that long ago.

    As noted in the link, he died in 1947. His son Alex inherited the hall.

    Presumably he is in Hell. And as the SI notes, Desires can linger in places where they were strongly felt.

    Next chapter, I bet. Helped by the guidebook.

    Check the mention of his name in the story post. He's also known as Roderick Burgess, the man who captured Dream for almost a century.
     
  26. bobsimmo

    bobsimmo Simmr001 on SV/SB

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    1,165
    then the universe becomes extremely apathetic as it loses all sense of want.

    also, i thought the 9 (well 10) entities were stronger than that?
     
  27. Prince Charon

    Prince Charon Just zis guy, you know?

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    9,737
    Likes Received:
    38,240
    That way lies unresolvable shouting matches about religion, so I think we shouldn't go there.
     
  28. Mquz

    Mquz Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,117
    Likes Received:
    8,239
    Yes, but, as far as I know, secret society meeting places don’t become museums that quickly most of the time (I may be wrong). My impression has been 50 years minimum, though I don’t really know. Most of the time, especially if nothing know to be important happened there, the house would just be sold to the next owner to get money for the government.
    What does the public think happened here?
     
  29. Prince Charon

    Prince Charon Just zis guy, you know?

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    9,737
    Likes Received:
    38,240
    Speculation: Sure they do, you just usually don't know that they were (or still are, perhaps) meeting places for secret societies, because after all, they're secret.
     
  30. Sceptic

    Sceptic Critical Irrationalist

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Messages:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    9,634
    More likely John Constantine split himself in two again, meaning half of him is a lord of chaos, half of him is a lord of order, and half of him is a demon.

    Yes, religion is definitely something that it would not be sensible to go into here. I give it less than a day.
     
Loading...