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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Chojin Patriarch said:
What sort of evolutionary advantage could an ability like that provide, I wonder? Easy butchering of prey, to remove the inedible parts?
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With all the powerful individuals, entities, mystic forces, and whatnot throughout the DC universe, what we think of as "natural" evolution is barely a thing. It's why I can sorta live with there being so many humanoid species.
I just hate it when stories without that excuse throw in so much crap that nature would never produce.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Negetiations

2nd August 2012
09:00 GMT

"No, no, I like it."

I look up at the anatomy arena, as physicians, magicians, medically and theologically orientated Lanterns and a surprising number of Controllers look back.

"Very nineteenth century. And since that was when my country was at the peak of its relative power, I'm taking that as a good sign."

Hinon shakes her head.

"Please limit yourself to pertinent comments. Stand there."

Rather than nod or point, she merely looks at a point just a little back from the centre of the examination space. I shrug and stride over to my appointed place before turning back to her. I widen my stance and spread my arms a little.

"Like this?"

"Acceptable." She glances up at the audience for a moment before holding out her right hand and calling a small tool to her.

"Not a bad showing. How do you feel about the turnout?"

"If I recall correctly, don't your species wrap screens about crashed ground vehicles, in order to prevent others jamming your highways by ghoulishly staring at them?"

"No. Sometimes we just let people watch. We learn best from worked examples, and it's hard to get a better example than an actual wreck with actual mangled bodies in it."

"I'm sure that you're every bit as fascinating as a mangled piece of wreckage."

"High praise. But really. I know that you're ancient, but I'm reasonably well informed on Guardian history and I don't think you've had this sort of following amongst the younger races ever. The Controllers separated before they started up the Halla. Isn't this a novel experience for you?"

"I have personally created more species than are represented here. And many of them I created intentionally."

"Nothing?"

"As much as anything else."

"You want to swap places after this, see if I can fix that? It can't be a pleasant way to live."

"The day I trust an infant like you to 'fix' my psyche is the day I let you. It will not be swift in coming."

I smile. "Are you doing this? I didn't think you were a magician."

"Do you just not pay attention when I say how old I am? I don't habitually use magic because taking advantage of the etheric ripples created by beings younger and weaker than me is wasteful."

"So-?"

The three Lanterns who will be serving as her assistants enter. Lantern Natu I recognise at once. I raise my right hand in greeting, but she remains almost aggressively impassive. I've rather been avoiding her since she caved to common sense and picked up the ring I left with her, but I suppose the chance to study me was more than she could pass up.

The other two I don't immediately recognise, though I do recognise Lantern… Nax's? Species. Vagabond Dominator knock-offs, the Naidroth Collective are a minor but persistent nuisance across this galaxy, unnecessarily vivisecting people for data they could just as easily get by asking for a data file at a local hospital. I've firmly categorised them as 'Stupid Evil', though by Dungeons and Dragons definitions I suppose that they'd be 'Unwise Evil'. And the other fellow is…

Lantern Hieronymous the Under-Achiever. That's… That's actually the name on his file.

"I did recruit a number of wizards whose surnames aren't 'under-achiever'."

"No need to worry about that, Lord Illustres!" He's smiling too much for someone that far gone into the orange light. "My problem was always one of motivation!" I can see the sigils in his eyes. I'm… Genuinely surprised that he's functional. "And with the orange light driving me on, there's no stopping me!"

Oh. It… Looks like actually being able to do something useful is such a novel experience for him that even in what should be full megalomaniacal mode he's actually fairly placid.

"Okay, so where do you want to start?"

Lantern Natu nods. "Please remove your ring and your clothes."

"As you wish."

My robes vanish into subspace, followed by my underwear. My ring I float over to Controller Hinon. She looks at it for a moment, then sends it over to her equipment rack with a wave of her left hand.

"Okay, so what's ne-?"

My point of view jumps forward, and a humanoid-. That's the back of my head. There's also a non-trivial amount of pain, but that's far more manageable. Empathic vision is still working…

"This is strange."

Lantern Nax blinks at me.

"Are you not in pain?"

"A bit. What's happening?"

"I have physically separated your different body tissues so that we may more easily study them."

"Um. How?"

"My parents called it psychic vivisection. I'm not exactly sure how it works. I have never done it to anyone who didn't immediately start screaming in agony."

"It hurts, but I wouldn't say that it's scream-worthy. Then again, I suspect that I'm not an entirely physical intelligence any more."

I try moving, but my perspective doesn't change. I can however see my arm moving in front of me. So I assume that I'm floating off the ground, and… My tissues have been separated?

"We shall study how that works in detail. Lantern Natu?"

"The subject is an adult humanoid male of the human species, thirty one years of age. Currently occupying his third body after the first was destroyed by magic-using Source-worshippers-"

"And sword-using."

"-and the second was destroyed in a qwa-matter explosion."

I look up-. And wave up at Lantern Gozzi.

"The subject has used his ring to turn each body into a facsimile of his original, which he considered to be 'ideal'. Here, we will compare the structures of his body to his original and study the effect of intense orange light exposure on neurological structures. Please hold any questions until the end."

Oh joy.
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not gonna lie I wish this was longer looks like it would be a fascinating read
 
Pinklestia said:
I don't think the problems are with his body but more with his soul and mind; and mind being defined as the Os and software instead of hardware.
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They're examining his body to see how it has changed since he's remade it several times, as well as studying how his neurology has been affected by the orange light.

The wizard is there to examine his soul and Hinon may also do that.
 
Joelseph14 said:
Damn imagine being so passive that the full power of avarice gives you baseline motivation
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pretty sure thats me.

Stsword said:
Pre-flashpoint, I'd say that's probably just Constantine's cynicism.

Post flashpoint it's objectively true. Because the Lords of Order stole the supernatural energy of Hecate and then artificially imposed rules on it. I'm not a total grognard, I think there are decent ideas presented after flashpoint by DC comics. I can't say I think that's one of them though.
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its been way past flashpoint, so does it still hold true, because there was a pretty serious reboot recently....
 
Joelseph14 said:
Damn imagine being so passive that the full power of avarice gives you baseline motivation
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The first time he made an actual effort, he conquered his home planet. While sitting on the throne with the magic book which let him do that, he looked at the next page and whined about it being hard. He read it anyway, commenting that that was literally the first time in his life he hadn't just given up when he found something difficult.
 
Mr Zoat said:
The first time he made an actual effort, he conquered his home planet. While sitting on the throne with the magic book which let him do that, he looked at the next page and whined about it being hard. He read it anyway, commenting that that was literally the first time in his life he hadn't just given up when he found something difficult.
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So he embodies the trope of Brilliant, but Lazy.
 
Sockmonkey said:
With all the powerful individuals, entities, mystic forces, and whatnot throughout the DC universe, what we think of as "natural" evolution is barely a thing. It's why I can sorta live with there being so many humanoid species.
I just hate it when stories without that excuse throw in so much crap that nature would never produce.
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Evolution happens through the morphogenetic field in DC.

The morphogenetic field is the combined elemental kingdoms.

So the Red is responsible for the evolution of all animal life, ditto the Green for plants, etc, etc.

So natural evolution, I'd say, is not a thing at all in DC. Evolution is magic.

Concepts such as parallel and convergent evolution aren't really applicable when every life form is magically connected to every other life form from the dawn of time to the heat death of the universe.

Instead it's self-plagiarism.

transhumansage said:
its been way past flashpoint, so does it still hold true, because there was a pretty serious reboot recently....
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Not that much of a reboot. The past is still the same, I understand, people just remember their different pasts.

So Nabu is still a lich who invented magic, I think, he's just a lich who invented magic who also remembers being made by God right after the birth of the universe too.

I might be wrong, I admit.
 
Stsword said:
Not that much of a reboot. The past is still the same, I understand, people just remember their different pasts.

So Nabu is still a lich who invented magic, I think, he's just a lich who invented magic who also remembers being made by God right after the birth of the universe too.
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I'm not that familiar with the recent comics.

So the events of post Flashpoint are still there, but people remember the pre Flashpoint universe?
 
Mr Zoat said:
The first time he made an actual effort, he conquered his home planet. While sitting on the throne with the magic book which let him do that, he looked at the next page and whined about it being hard. He read it anyway, commenting that that was literally the first time in his life he hadn't just given up when he found something difficult.
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How's he doing now, with his ring boosting his avarice?
 
"Do you just not pay attention when I say how old I am? I don't habitually use magic because taking advantage of the etheric ripples created by beings younger and weaker than me is wasteful."
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I have a genuine point of confusion whenever Hinon talks about her age. Didn't she put herself into hibernation shortly after the Manhunter rebellion, after she created the original orange ring? So she hasn't actually experienced... however long it was since then?

Or is it just that she's so old, even all that time is only a blip compared to how long she's been alive in total?
 
Steelplaza said:
I have a genuine point of confusion whenever Hinon talks about her age. Didn't she put herself into hibernation shortly after the Manhunter rebellion, after she created the original orange ring? So she hasn't actually experienced... however long it was since then?

Or is it just that she's so old, even all that time is only a blip compared to how long she's been alive in total?
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She was probably at least millions of years old before she went in a coma.
 
Darko said:
I'm not that familiar with the recent comics.

So the events of post Flashpoint are still there, but people remember the pre Flashpoint universe?
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Actually I believe they also remember their pre-crisis selves.

There also were some apparent continuity changes- The infinite multiverse is back, Darkseid got a power up enough to slaughter the Quintessence like bugs underneath his boot, Roy Harper is alive with no stated reason, Babs is Oracle again, but it seems like a soft reboot instead of a clean slate.

But it starts with the Quintessence offering Diana a place in the Quintessence for her sacrifice dealing with Mr Batman & Joker wank incarnate.
 
Stsword said:
Pre-flashpoint, I'd say that's probably just Constantine's cynicism.

Post flashpoint it's objectively true. Because the Lords of Order stole the supernatural energy of Hecate and then artificially imposed rules on it. I'm not a total grognard, I think there are decent ideas presented after flashpoint by DC comics. I can't say I think that's one of them though.
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Eh magic ALWAYS has a price but A) The caster doesn't need to be the one paying it and B) You always know what the price will be beforehand unless you were really stupid and didn't read the instructions.

For homo magi, like the Zatara family the price is simply speaking their spells bavkwards and using their own magic.

Now if you are not a homo magi that means you have to use an external source of power and that is never free.

Basically you pay for power.

The price varies, a whole lot.

Demons prey on the needy and the price always end your soul and the souls of others.

Elementals don't think like humans so what they want is not what humans want.

Rituals are the best if you are not in a hurry, as long as you meet the requirements anyone can cast them and you always know what you are paying.

Unfortunately to be a combat wizards Rituals will never ever be enough.
 
Counting the Cost
  • Threadmarks
    • 2nd August 2012
    10:24 GMT +3

    "…back to the point we've been circling around since the Sheeda first appeared." Minister for National Defence Lukas Frangopoulos bangs a wad of papers against the cabinet table in barely suppressed frustration. "We just can't afford any of this. And we're not going to be able to afford it."

    I nod thoughtfully. It's been a while since I've been a cabinet minister, but with the previous office holder dead and the Sheeda running rampant across the Earth -and the global economy barely existing in any significant fashion- the Prime Minister recalled me to duty. I've made a point of looking a little older, just in case someone takes too close a look at one of the pictures decorating the walls from last time I held the office of Finance Minister. My return had a slight stabilising effect as a result of public confidence, but there are still limits to what I can do with so little to work with.

    Our sources of foreign revenue are tourists and agricultural exports. Tourists… Tourism itself barely exists any longer. Mercifully, the Sheeda didn't appear to have any interest in sites of historical significance so… Perhaps, in the fullness of time, things might recover.

    "We simply cannot afford the sort of super weapon research program that the Americans, Russians and Chinese can. We can't buy enough of their end products to make a difference. We can't hire any of the handful of individuals on the planet who could take up the burden of our defence. We can -slowly- rebuild our conventional forces, but at the moment the strongest military force in Greece is the Congregation's volunteers."

    "And Luthor's… Offer…" Frangopoulos shakes his head. "It's not even worth considering."

    The Prime Minister looks impassive.

    "His suits worked. We all saw them kill Sheeda invaders. And the dogs could bite through steel."

    Frangopoulos shakes his head again.

    "His power armour is combat effective for an hour at a time, requires highly specialised and expensive maintenance and it would leave us completely dependent on him for our defence. And the dogs have no supernatural abilities beyond their strength. They cannot fly, or find enemies hidden by magic." He looks around the room. "You have all had the same intelligence briefings that I have. That is not a man I would trust with my wallet, let alone the lives of everyone in Greece."

    The Prime Minister nods. "Professor Prokopios? Do you have anything?"

    I nod. "Nothing that will simply fix our problem, I am afraid. I have been in contact with the Orange Lantern." Hm. "Some time ago he purchased a British chocolate manufacturer, and has been improving their distribution network with Dolmen Gates. They are a type of magic portal; put something in one and they come out of another. His company are expanding their network in an effort to stimulate global trade, and I persuaded him to ensure that we were included."

    On the face of it, globalisation was entirely rational. Resources are extracted from where they are most readily available and transported to where they can best be used. Wars disrupt that, but unless your country was directly involved they could be worked around. And even if your country was directly involved, it was generally possible to see an attack coming and make appropriate preparations. The days of soldiers manning the ramparts because an unfamiliar sail was seen on the horizon are long past.

    And then the Sheeda attacked with little warning, and the whole brittle system came tumbling down. I hadn't properly accounted for the possibility of an attack of this sort. And now… We're a net exporter of foodstuffs. We aren't in danger of going hungry as people in some places are, but supplies of certain types of non-essential products are going to become rare. Price inflation is going to become a problem.

    "The practical upshot will be that it will become marginally easier for us to import and export at least a small volume of material. We will have to arrange-" I nod to the Minister for Foreign Affairs. "-the appropriate legislation and protocols for a small border inside our country, and of course someone will have to talk to the Archbishop of Athens about us accepting the public use of a magic artefact-."

    The Prime Minister nods, waving his right hand.

    "Don't worry about that. They don't use demons or spirits of any kind. If it gets trade flowing again, we need it."

    I nod noncommittally. It's been a worry of mine for a while, but… "I am well aware that I am the only person at this table who did not swear his oath of office on a bible. And I am aware that people are understandably sensitive at this time."

    "I'll talk to the Archbishop."

    I nod, this time with more confidence. The Orthodox churches are less open minded about magic than the Catholic Church is, but generally more so than the Evangelical Protestants. So long as it is a purely mechanistic use of magic the Archbishop will probably accept it.

    "Otherwise, there is little for me to add. My Ministry's loan scheme for areas of proven economic demand but no local supply continues to be over-subscribed. We will never be entirely self-sufficient, but I believe that the shortages will ease within two years. On the matter of defence… I do have an idea, though I am not sure how palatable it will be."

    Frangopoulos shrugs. "We may as well hear it."

    "Themyscira was not troubled at all by the Sheeda. They-."

    The Minister for Shipping and Island Policy shakes her head.

    "The Old Gods might be prepared to bless a small island, but they will never do that to all of Greece. Unless you're suggesting that we abandon Christian-. You're a Hellenist."

    I nod.

    "Something like that. But that was not what I meant. I am aware that they have recently improved their ability to produce enchanted weapons; not to an industrial scale, but far more than they once had. As you are aware, their hoplite armour is proof against automatic weapon fire, and their swords can cut through sheet metal. And that is just their normal soldiers."

    Frangopoulos frowns. "You're not talking about Wonder Woma-. They have more like her?"

    "Not quite like her, but they have other demi-goddesses. Why do you think-" I point to a framed photograph on the wall behind him, prompting half the cabinet to look around. "-that the statue of Herakles was covered during Queen Hippolyta's last state visit?"

    "Because she thought it was a bad likeness?"

    "No, because he raped her and at least a hundred other Amazons, which is why they left the mainland in the first place. We were fortunate in that she did not appear to know what the hoarding concealed." It's a little surprising that they didn't know that, though I suppose the Amazons don't generally like to talk about it. "He has many daughters on Themyscira today. And there are a few others who claim descent from other gods. Since Themyscira is opening itself to the outside world, it may be that they would listen favourably to a request from the Greek government."

    The Prime Minister nods. "Amazon super soldiers."

    "They can have more than human abilities in a number of fields, but strength, agility and speed are common ones. They also have instinctive low level magic abilities, inherited from their… Ah, Olympian forebears."

    "Will they work for us?"

    "It is my understanding that Amazons are increasingly willing to leave their island. America has been a more popular destination than Greece, but I imagine that if we make an offer that at least some will accept."

    "And what will Queen Hippolyta want in return? I don't think that we.. want to offer her a throne."

    Now there's a thought. Of course, the position of king was ceremonial for a long time before finally being abolished, but it would be interesting to see Hippolyta in command of a modern nation.

    "I doubt that she will ask for much. A few small islands or a recognition of their territorial waters. Though if that is unpalatable, there is another option."

    "Yes?"

    "Demigods are the children of the gods. There is a young girl in America who is the daughter of Zeus, and a dryad has taken the Amazon Rainforest as her domain. If-."

    The Minister of the Interior frowns. "If we whore out Greek women to the demon gods of a dead religion, they may give birth to demon children."

    "Or men. The children of goddesses are just as powerful as the children of gods. It would cost a little more than hiring Amazons, but the resulting children would be Greek citizens familiar with the modern world."

    "If you think-!"

    "No." The Prime Minister shakes his head. "I will speak with Queen Hippolyta, but Greece is not in the business of… Eugenics. Do you have anything else to bring to our attention."

    I shake my head. "No."

    "Then onto the next item on the agenda."
     
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