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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Assblaster5000 said:
If I knew what was going on in that image it would probably prove a point. Sadly, most, if not all, of my 40k knowledge is based purely in lore, so I've got no clue what that image is meant to convey.

Edit:I am admittedly quite stupid at times, and my knowledge of the fluff is hardly absolute, so it's entirely possible that what it's meant to convey is a matter of pure lore and I just don't have the context to get that.
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At a guess, he's poking fun at the changing character of the setting over the years. Early Space Marines were basically just that: Marines in spaaaaace, with 'chapter' names just as flavour. Ordinary men in powered combat armour, with often-silly 'Hollywood war movie' personalities.

These days, Space Wolves are written as space Vikings who are all 'Wolf' this or 'Fang' that. They wouldn't be caught dead with squads named 'Howlers', 'Snarlers' or 'Tearers'. You also wouldn't get three captains in a single army like that (They'd be 'lieutenants' these days, under a Captain.)

Even the stats and equipment are very different, whether in the amount of armour worn, weapons carried or the very names. For instance: no 'Jet Cycles' or 'digital weapons' (alien-made ring-shaped guns.) 'Navigator' isn't a rank (It's a mutation that lets humans navigate the Warp, and thus not likely to become a space marine.) The marine troopers would have higher toughness and wounds, while the Intelligence, Cool and Willpower stats there no longer exist in the main game.

To sum up: Early Warhammer 40,000 lore is bat-shit crazy, and they were making it up as they went as a fun RPG-lite skirmish game. These days, the lore is locked down tight and the rules are made to sell models. :confused: Not sure if that helps, but...
 
Rogue Trader was kind of Early Access 40K.
Mastigos2 said:
Not according to the wiki. Dragon ogres and dragons predated the Old Ones but elves were made by the Old Ones.
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That's been retconned a few times. Remember, Warhammer came out first. They can't have been related to species that didn't exist yet.
transhumansage said:
what are the odds that the druichi and the asur immediately start attacking each other?
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Fairly low. There aren't any biological differences between High Elves from Nagarythe and Dark Elves. If they're not dressed like Dark Elves it's not going to be immediately obvious that's what they are.
 
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Mr Zoat said:
I'm reasonably confident that wasn't the case. At the start of the Rogue Trader era, space marines were conceptually very different to what they were at the end of it.
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I think that this is the Astartes I was thinking of, and a quick glance at the page makes it seem like he hasn't existed since 1E, so it's pretty likely that he was never in any novels.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Depending on what the problem is, I can correct it or keep it in abeyance or… If it's a matter of diet or something like that, I will suggest changes to your lifestyles to work around it. That's basically what I've offered the dwarfs, though their problem is.. far simpler than yours appears to be."
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I suspect that it's the magical background. I think his village is one of the only areas which both lacks a functioning waystone network(and thus high-intensity flow of winds), and lacks a significant concentration of Dhar.
Essentially I suspect that elven fetuses early in their development need more protection against or isolation from intense magical energies.
You could probably provide it by use of enchanted protective items or enchanted rooms for the prospective mother until the fetus is far enough along.
 
crazygrox said:
I suspect that it's the magical background.
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I know very little about this setting, but I'm fairly sure that if this problem was purely magical in nature, then the Elves, who I assume would be highly skilled in the art of magic, would have likely figured it out by now. I suspect that there is at least some major physical component to the problem as well. Like the lack of any high enough quality tools for physical observation during the process. Of course, if the solution was actually to remove sources of magic, there is still a chance that it wouldn't be something that has been tried yet, seeing as it's quite counterintuitive for a society based around magic to do.
 
Stsword said:
Why would you think that emulating a power ring would be any more difficult than emulating kryptonian solar powers, Martian psychic powers, the Flash's (in this fic) magic speed, or Captain Atom's connection to the Quantum Field?

Especially since the alt.Paul Peter exists in the world where AMAZO did exactly that.
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In Young Justice Amazo was powered by either a Mother Box or a Father Box. In the comics? Yeah is pure bullshit. Justified because you can tap into one of the Lights like the Flashes tap into the Speed Force, but still bullshit.

There is a reason why I wrote an Omake of an Alternate Paul going all out EARTH MAD SCIENCE FUCK YEAH! Because is really insane. Earth is the true Mad Science planet in DC.
 
Assblaster5000 said:
Not if it's a version of WF in-line with modern lore that this Paul is in.

Any half-breeds have been retconned out of existence by making the genetics of the species of The Old World too alien to interbreed. And Orkz are basically just their 40k counterparts now, so they wouldn't even have genitalia to interbreed with.

Hell, the same thing's basically happened in 40k too. There used to be an Astartes that was half-Eldar, but that's not canon anymore last I saw.
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Warhammer doesn't work on a retcon system.

If something shows up in official material, it's true, period.
 
Vaermina said:
Warhammer doesn't work on a retcon system.

If something shows up in official material, it's true, period.
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I... very sincerely doubt that, but sure, give a link to something that outright says that and I'll concede the point.

Doesn't change that this is a fanfiction and if Zoat says that Dr. Manhattan comes by and just deletes Chaos then that's what happens, end of story, but at least you'll be right about the official canon of this particular setting.
 
Could offer to make mods that'll increase the likelihood of twins and triplets. Sex changes though that'll be unlikely to work. Or speed up the woman's cycle so they can get pregnant more often too.
 
Assblaster5000 said:
I... very sincerely doubt that, but sure, give a link to something that outright says that and I'll concede the point.

Doesn't change that this is a fanfiction and if Zoat says that Dr. Manhattan comes by and just deletes Chaos then that's what happens, end of story, but at least you'll be right about the official canon of this particular setting.
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Don't mind if I do.

Gav Thorpe, Lead Designer GW

"With Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000, the notion of canon is a fallacy. [...] Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong."
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And Zoat didn't make a comment on his story's Warhammer, he made a blanket statement about Warhammer as a franchise.
 
"Keep in mind Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are worlds where half truths, lies, propaganda, politics, legends and myths exist. The absolute truth which is implied when you talk about "canonical background" will never be known because of this. Everything we know about these worlds is from the viewpoints of people in them which are as a result incomplete and even sometimes incorrect. The truth is mutable, debatable and lost as the victors write the history…"

"But is it all true? Yes and no. Even though some of it is plainly contradictory? Yes and no. Do we deliberately contradict, retell with differences? Yes we do. Is the newer the stuff the truer it is? Yes and no. In some cases is it true that the older stuff is the truest? Yes and no. Maybe and sometimes. Depends and it varies."

— Marc Gascoigne, former head of Black Library

In other words, There is No Canon! ONLY CHAOS!
 
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Someguy Somewhere said:
"Keep in mind Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are worlds where half truths, lies, propaganda, politics, legends and myths exist. The absolute truth which is implied when you talk about "canonical background" will never be known because of this. Everything we know about these worlds is from the viewpoints of people in them which are as a result incomplete and even sometimes incorrect. The truth is mutable, debatable and lost as the victors write the history…"

"But is it all true? Yes and no. Even though some of it is plainly contradictory? Yes and no. Do we deliberately contradict, retell with differences? Yes we do. Is the newer the stuff the truer it is? Yes and no. In some cases is it true that the older stuff is the truest? Yes and no. Maybe and sometimes. Depends and it varies."

— Marc Gascoigne, former head of Black Library

In other words, There is No Canon! ONLY CHAOS!
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And I have so much contempt for that answer. Serious, how hard is it to say 'sometimes we change stuff'.
 
Honestly, for any setting or background where you've got a 'Your Doods' aspect to things, I think that you have to leave things either open to interpretation or otherwise give some grey areas for folks to work with.

Any Table Top Game or RPG where you are inserting your own characters or factions into a setting has to have room for that to exist without utterly destroying the narrative. Especially when there is a DM representing, or rather Reinterpreting the universe for the sake of the players and the story and game they want to play.

I mean, with 40k the Big thing in the fluff for that was the Missing Legions. Originally when it came out they were just unlisted, in something of a nod to the missing Roman Legions who's names and numbers would not be used again. It Also gave players a chance to say 'yeah, my guys came from ____' and to fill in the background however they liked. It let you shoe horn in your own armies and characters without messing up anything.

As 40k's background got filled in, it had to deal with this gaping hole in the lore...mostly in a very 40k way of Censoring all the mentions of it completely, in universe and out. It became something of a joke after a while. A recurring mystery that we'd never get answers for. The lore Around them got nailed down so tight that it'd be nigh impossible to come up with something to use them now, but the details were never filled in.

Then GW gave us the Horus Heresy Novels, where the huge epic legends in the fluff suddenly had 'first hand' coverage. This dramatically shifted the lore, as the stuff we THOUGHT we knew from in universe myths and stories were shown directly rather then 10,000 years of playing Telephone with the narrative (in universe, out of universe it's going from short blurbs in army books to epic novel stories in a somewhat more cohesive manner).

Thing is, even with this new Canon, with direct descriptions of what's going on, they still leave lots in the way of ambiguity. Just about anything involving the Emperor himself is so saturated with 'what you see and hear cannot be trusted' that there isn't enough salt on earth to take with it. For the missing legions themselves, we get writers purposely dancing around the concept leaving the smallest of grains of facts for fans to pick away at. Because they're fans too, and they're in on the Joke.
 
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Visiting Ulthuan will be an interesting experience for Paul, I'm sure. Once his findings on Elven Fertility issues are shared, general opinion among the Asur might rise up from "dangerous human with a magic ring" to "VERY important person with a magic ring, treat respectfully".

And given the translation capabilities his power ring provides, odds are there'll be more than a few who'll be interested to note they don't have to speak any "barbaric human language" in order to hold a conversation with him.

Meanwhile, Paul's probably grown experienced in dealing with upper-class twits with the Reikland and Bretonnian nobilities at some parties that he'll be able to tolerate any obnoxiousness from the more gadfly sorts of elven nobles.
 
Tzeentch said:
Visiting Ulthuan will be an interesting experience for Paul, I'm sure. Once his findings on Elven Fertility issues are shared, general opinion among the Asur might rise up from "dangerous human with a magic ring" to "VERY important person with a magic ring, treat respectfully".
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There's a grand total of ONE settlement on Ulthuan that a non-elf can visit. It's the one with human 'indentured servants' and actual slaves.
 
Mr Zoat said:
There's a grand total of ONE settlement on Ulthuan that a non-elf can visit. It's the one with human 'indentured servants' and actual slaves.
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Well, here's hoping an exception might be made in the future. Till then, I wonder how they would react to Paul using the flight capabilities of his ring to levitate everywhere several feet above Ulthuan, thus not actually setting foot on their precious island-nation?
 
Vaermina said:
Given you tried to claim there was retconning and the half elves/orc's weren't canon... I think this one's on you...
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Dude, don't be a prick.
The the game the segment is based on gives two contradictory pieces of information, one that halfbreeds exist, and one that their genetics are incompatible, it is Zoats right and prerogative as the author to choose which bit of conflicting information should be the true one for the purposes of this story.

You do realize that, right?
Honestly it feels like you are just being such a colossal asshole here, and if he had decided halfelves were in fact a thing, you would still be telling him he was wrong, only giving the quote about the incompatible genetics from a more recent book. Because again, Vaermina = colossal asshole vibes.
 
Bramble Thorn said:
Dude, don't be a prick.
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Would you ask a fish not to swim? A bird not to fly? Vaermina has been doing this I'm pretty sure since the story started, quite possibly the longest consistent commenter. If he could be persuaded to not be a dick someone would have figured out how in the last decade or so
 
Veganism (part 8)
1st September 2012
14:51 GMT

A grey metal corridor, blue tinted lights from above making it look even colder than it actually is. Diana frowns for a moment, but the ongoing action of my healing drone appears to convince her that this isn't some sort of backstab attempt.

As if.

She slows, keeping a grip on her prisoner.

"Where are we, Grayven?"

"Karras kindly pointed out which ship held their command staff. We're on it." Let's see, the interdiction systems should be that way. "Obviously we can't leave it to carry on its work, much less reach Vega. Plus…"

Scan Astarte.

Unable to comply.

Yes, she is knitting herself back together a bit, isn't she? I'd assume it's the killing down below giving her some sort of boost, though I suppose it could be the presence of her ships.

"Diana, can you do something to reduce her resilience?"

"Why?"

"Because I'm trying to scan her and I can't. New Gods like me -or you, apparently- can resist some types of probe. I'd like to learn more about who we're fighting."

"I can't, but we-."

I punch Astarte across the face, causing her to fly back before being tethered back to the deck by the Lasso of Truth. Subject To My Whims.

Scan Astarte.

Unable to comply.

Ah well. I-.

Diana steps in the way.

"What are you doing?!"

"Trying to weaken her resilience." I lower my fist and shrug at her. "You can see how she's healing, right?"

"You will not assault my prisoner."

"What, you want to do it? I suppose that I could shoot her or assimilate her, but-."

"It's called the Lasso of Truth for a reason, Grayven."

"And how would that let me check her for internal injuries?"

"She's healing herself."

We maintain eye contact for a few moments. Alright, fine.

"Astarte. What are the snakes for?"

She glowers, then the lasso glows.

"The Providers harvest worlds with inferior populations before returning to our ships to be processed into porridge."

"To be clear." I look at Diana with my eyebrows raised. "You kill people for the sole purpose of eating them?"

"The strongest women are recruited. Some of the strongest men are used for breeding before they are killed."

"Is this a ritual thing, or a religious thing..? High days and holidays? To mark a victory?"

"It is all we eat."

"So you've done this a lot?"

"Yes."

"And you personally…" I shrug and shake my head. "How long..?"

"I have been a Citizen for around three thousand years."

"Gosh." I raise my eyebrows and look at the clearly horrified Diana. "Eaten a lot of planets in three thousand years?"

"I haven't counted how many, but it is a large number. And I fully intend to eat yours once Grayven is done with you."

"You want to eat Apokolips? Good luck." I take a step back and smile at Diana. "So, about hitting her until her scan-blocking ability stops working?"

"No matter how monstrous she is, it is still wrong to beat a defenceless prisoner."

"Oh. Oh! Sorry, silly me." I return my attention to the prisoner. "Astarte, whereabouts are you from?"

"Themyscira. It is a Greek nation on Earth."

"Three thousand years ago? Diana, when was it that your forebears left the mainland?"

"It was three thousand years ago, as well you know. Astarte, do you remember your mother?"

"No."

"Diana, I just-."

"Astarte, who was your mother?" Truth Unchanging.

The lasso glows, the usual mute gold colour suddenly shining brilliantly!

Astarte gasps-.

Ring, scan her.

Compliance.

I smile at Diana as I feel the data come in. "Well done on-."

"Not now, Grayven."

Astarte's eyes glow with the same golden light as the lasso. "Queen Otrera is my mother."

And I jump in. "Any other family?"

"A younger sister. Hippolyta."

Diana's jaw tenses, and her eyes shift to me. "Did you know?"

"N-."

"Put your hand on the lasso and tell me that you did not know."

I roll my eyes and put my right hand on the lasso.

"I did not have confirmation that the mysterious Olympian -whoever they were- was related to you. I suspected, and I am not surprised, but this part of what's happening-"

Darn it.

"-was not a set up."

I take my hand off in something of a hurry.

"I mean, how many women were having sex with gods in the Old City? It can't have been that many; you don't have that many gods. And the goddesses would have gotten annoyed about it. Anyway, yeah, your aunt is a mass murdering cannibal warlady. Thoughts?"

"What is he-" Astarte strains briefly against her bonds. "-talking about?"

"I am Diana, Princess of Themyscira, and your niece. And now I must decide what I am to do with you."
 
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