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Amelia, Worm AU [Complete]

Reader mode
Eidolon: "Contessa, what are you doing?"
Contessa: "... Gathering data."
Eidolon: "Why does this involve filling my closet with hawaiian shirts and surfboards?"
Contessa: "... uhh... Path to Victory?"
Eidolon: "Isn't the entire reason you need to gather data because Path to Victory doesn't account for me?"
Contessa: "..."
Eidolon: "Wait, this isn't my alarm clock! It's a box of condoms!"
 
evildice said:
She is, or has been, required to go off-Path when dealing with Eidolon. This isn't a maybe sorta thing, it's strictly required by the information in canon.
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You said Contessa "can't" be on script when interacting with Eidolon, which I'm refuting. Even if she only uses her path 10% of the time with Eidolon it still means she can.
 
Snake/Eater said:
those were the other characters assumptions of what his power is,what your suggesting is that Coil is a Agent Smith-like character,While i'm suggesting he's a dime-store Q(Star-trek reference),maybe we're both wrong.
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Not a single character in Worm canon figured out the truth of how Coil's power worked. They actually believed similarly (without the over-the-top Coil is a God bit) to you, since that explanation works on a practical level for figuring out how to fight him.

My assertions come from WoG (Word of God, AKA the author/creator of a given fic or series. If it happens in their head-space, it's canon).
EnderofWorlds said:
In the larger Entity being, his shard was probably used to streamline precognition in order for the Entity to be able to see far into the future without expending the vast amount of time actually required to do so.
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On thinking about it for a while, I actually came to the conclusion that Coil's shard is shared with Clairvoyant.

Remember that Cauldron capes don't have a single shard, they have a formula made from pieces of several different shards, and a balancing agent (I think this was derived from the human avatar Eden was forming); so it's very possible for 2 separate Cauldron capes to share parts of the same core shard.

Coil's shard is aware of everything happening right now.
Clairvoyant's shard forces him to be aware of everything happening right now.

I imagine Clairvoyant got the majority of the shard, while Coil got some of the shard, along with bits of other shards that worked with the clairvoyance to create the simulations, probably another thinker-type shard.

Coil got more of the balancing agent than Clairvoyant did (if Clairvoyant got any; he may have been created before the balancing agent was discovered), so Coil's power came with the limitations that kept it from destroying his mind, like the power did to Clairvoyant.

Tricky balance that, Cauldron NEEDS unrestricted power to stand a chance of killing Zion, but to make the capes that are given the formula usable, they have to add the balancing agent....which imposes those very restrictions they want to bypass.
 
I'm personally glad that Coil can't second trigger because his shard is dead.then again if it was alive...he would be Completely insane.
 
Second triggers are about adjusting restrictions and not necessarily a power-up. Though in Coil's case its hard to go anywhere with that which isn't a direct power-up.
 
Snake/Eater said:
So to dumb it down Coil....has Agent Smith's matrix Power.
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Umm... No, and I think you're thinking of Oracle's power, which Agent Smith stole. I can see a few minor similarities when looking at it deep enough, but the glaring differences make it impossible to accept the comparison.
Snake/Eater said:
I'm personally glad that Coil can't second trigger because his shard is dead.then again if it was alive...he would be Completely insane.
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It's canon that Cauldron has helped some of their capes second trigger, with varying levels of success. Contessa's power is utilized to find the right trigger. Their most expensive service as I recall, since it doesn't really help their main cause much.
 
edale said:
Remember that Cauldron capes don't have a single shard, they have a formula made from pieces of several different shards, and a balancing agent (I think this was derived from the human avatar Eden was forming); so it's very possible for 2 separate Cauldron capes to share parts of the same core shard.

Coil's shard is aware of everything happening right now.
Clairvoyant's shard forces him to be aware of everything happening right now.

I imagine Clairvoyant got the majority of the shard, while Coil got some of the shard, along with bits of other shards that worked with the clairvoyance to create the simulations, probably another thinker-type shard.

Coil got more of the balancing agent than Clairvoyant did (if Clairvoyant got any; he may have been created before the balancing agent was discovered), so Coil's power came with the limitations that kept it from destroying his mind, like the power did to Clairvoyant.

Tricky balance that, Cauldron NEEDS unrestricted power to stand a chance of killing Zion, but to make the capes that are given the formula usable, they have to add the balancing agent....which imposes those very restrictions they want to bypass.
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That's not outright stated IIRC, that Cauldron actually mixes several shards together in their formula. Except for Balance for obvious reasons. The formula seems to basically make a potenteia that hooks up to the shard it's from and then regular shard mechanics follow. Not to mention that Coil isn't aware of everything nor is his power aware of everything, it's just modeling what's happening with the information available and observable from Coil.
 
Inverness said:
You said Contessa "can't" be on script when interacting with Eidolon, which I'm refuting. Even if she only uses her path 10% of the time with Eidolon it still means she can.
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I am refuting the claim that she is "always on-script".

Even if she were off-script 10% of the time, my counter-argument stands.
 
evildice said:
I am refuting the claim that she is "always on-script".
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You are refuting the facetious claim that she is always on-script. :p

But hey, no reason to waste a perfectly good topic for pointless argument. Lemme take a stab at it:

"She's always on some script. Just because her PtV fuzzes out when Eidolon is interfering with a particular goal doesn't mean she can's seamlessly slip into Ptv for some other goal she's had running in the background."
 
EnderofWorlds said:
That's not outright stated IIRC, that Cauldron actually mixes several shards together in their formula. Except for Balance for obvious reasons.
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I can't find the bit right at the second, but in Worm there's a scene where the Travelers are first arriving on Earth Beta, during the Simurgh attack.

In the briefcase that contained the vials, there was also paperwork about the formulas. The paperwork listed the contents of the vials, things like "Prince," "Ageis," "Balance," and such. Each vial had at least 3 different components, as I recall. They talk about it when their deciding who to give what vial to.
 
EnderofWorlds said:
That's not outright stated IIRC, that Cauldron actually mixes several shards together in their formula. Except for Balance for obvious reasons. The formula seems to basically make a potenteia that hooks up to the shard it's from and then regular shard mechanics follow. Not to mention that Coil isn't aware of everything nor is his power aware of everything, it's just modeling what's happening with the information available and observable from Coil.
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Coil's power most definitely does have access to information he himself does not have. It has to, for him to use it to gather information by torturing his subordinates.

I don't think canon showed him trying to use it on Leviathan during that attack, and he was dead long before Scion went crazy, so it may be somehow limited against the same things that block other thinkers/precogs.
 
evildice said:
This is a lot of ass-covering for some fairly small errors.
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That's actually a little offensive. Not hugely offense, but a little bit. I made a tongue-in-cheek comment; my only error was in failing to make that obvious in the post I made it in. I'm actually admitting to that error, not covering my ass.

If the pink emoticon came off as mocking instead of sheepish, that wasn't my intent.

I'm bad at emoticons.
 
pepperjack said:
I'm actually admitting to that error, not covering my ass.
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I didn't pick that up from the previous posts. So, presumably my error in interpretation.
You have my sincere admiration for admitting to an error on the internet -- a thing which I strive to do myself when applicable -- and we're done here. :)
 
Inverness said:
Death of the author does not mean you get to ignore canon in favor of your headcanon whenever it suits you.
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Death of the author means you can ignore anything not outright stated in the text itself.

That said, if you have Coil actually doing alternate timeline stuff, you should understand and acknowledge that you have gone non-canon.
 
So in theory parahumans with dead shards can second trigger or was cauldron offering it to living shard parahumans only?
 
gunghoun said:
Coil's power most definitely does have access to information he himself does not have. It has to, for him to use it to gather information by torturing his subordinates.

I don't think canon showed him trying to use it on Leviathan during that attack, and he was dead long before Scion went crazy, so it may be somehow limited against the same things that block other thinkers/precogs.
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I should clarify; it only models what's relevant to Coil and that's what the mental model accounts for. It doesn't model things going on halfway around the world, unless Coil was watching/listening in on said events. Coil does action X in one 'timeline', and the model accounts for that action and shows the outcome accordingly. This is nowhere near 'everything' like Clairvoyant who sees into every world everywhere IIRC. Coil's power only has to look as far as Coil's perspective reaches, and model the information from that. So when Coil tortures Tattletale, the model extrapolates what would happen and then feeds the info back to the real Coil. That's how every dropped 'timeline' of Coil's would operate, and still doesn't mean that Coil gets more information that is available to him. The shard isn't pulling information from nowhere, nor is it all-seeing; it's just mental modelling Coil's actions and showing him the results of those actions if he were to take them.

edale said:
I can't find the bit right at the second, but in Worm there's a scene where the Travelers are first arriving on Earth Beta, during the Simurgh attack.

In the briefcase that contained the vials, there was also paperwork about the formulas. The paperwork listed the contents of the vials, things like "Prince," "Ageis," "Balance," and such. Each vial had at least 3 different components, as I recall. They talk about it when their deciding who to give what vial to.
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Canister A: F-1-6-1-1, 'Deus', 85% mixture.
Added: C-0-0-7-2, 'Balance', 15% mixture.
To be consumed by Client 1

Canister B: R-0-9-3-6, 'Jaunt', 70% mixture.
Added: C-0-0-7-2, 'Balance', 30% mixture.
To be consumed by Client 2

Canister C: C-2-0-6-2, 'Prince', 55% mixture.
Added: O-0-1-2-1, 'Aegis', 30% mixture.
Added: C-0-0-7-2, 'Balance', 15% mixture.
To be consumed by Client 3

Canister D: M-0-0-4-2, 'Vestige', 75% mixture.
Added: C-0-0-7-2, 'Balance', 25% mixture
To be consumed by Client 4

Canister E: X-0-7-9-6, 'Division', 80% mixture.
Added: C-0-0-7-2, 'Balance', 20% mixture
To be consumed by Client 5

Canister F: E-0-7-1-2, 'Robin', 60% mixture.
Added: C-0-0-7-2, 'Balance', 40% mixture
To be consumed by Client 6
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Looking at the list; only one canister has a mixture of something other than Balance into the mix, while the others are just the one base element with Balance added in. So it's possible, but it looks like it's not exactly the norm; probably has to do with what the client wants from the power - something like an Alexandria Package probably needs more than one in order to get the Mover and Brute elements together.
 
we need seriously a worm debate and questions tread....:oops: on the bright side,we all learned something and ask questions,isn't that important?
 
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I think Eden's shards weren't so much dead, as dying.

EnderofWorlds said:
Looking at the list; only one canister has a mixture of something other than Balance into the mix, while the others are just the one base element with Balance added in. So it's possible, but it looks like it's not exactly the norm; probably has to do with what the client wants from the power - something like an Alexandria Package probably needs more than one in order to get the Mover and Brute elements together.
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I find it funny that the only ones I remembered were the 3 ingredients of the mixed one, lol.

You can also assume that if:
Canister F: E-0-7-1-2, 'Robin', 60% mixture.
Added: C-0-0-7-2, 'Balance', 40% mixture

Then there's 40% of Robin left to be used in a different formula.
dasstan said:
So long as we're completely disregarding WoG, Word of Author, and common sense... Coil clearly has Magneto's power.
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Magneto? God no, Coil CLEARLY has Xavior's powers while he's utilizing Cerebro.
 
edale said:
I think Eden's shards weren't so much dead, as dying.
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I think it's a language issue. Scion uses both "dead" and "damaged" to describe Eden's non-natural triggers, because they are incapable of accumulating data for the cycle.

So, Scion's use of dead != no-longer alive. It just means no-longer functioning as required for the cycle.
 
gunghoun said:
I don't think canon showed him trying to use it on Leviathan during that attack
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Lisa asked him to use his power for something else around the time of the Leviathan attack, and he tells her that he's already using it for the attack itself.

For some people, that's confirmation that his power works on Endbringers/Scion.

For other people, that's just Coil saying something to Lisa to deny her something she wanted, and could easily be a lie.

edit: His interlude says nothing on the subject either way.
 
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