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Amelia, Worm AU [Complete]

Reader mode
The Kingdom of Awesome - "No, Zach."

The Queendom of Awesome - "No, Eric, that's not the part that ... nevermind, just no."

The Federation - "Solid, but derivative. Good try Missy."

United Earth Directorate - "Rule 194: Zach is not allowed to name anything, nor help with naming anything, ever again."

The Empire - "Not if we want to keep HQ in Brockton Bay."

[ENTITY] - "Who said that?"
 
Slayer Anderson said:
I'd love to see this happen, honestly I would, but...it's also the kind of PR move that's equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot. Calling your government a 'Theocracy' and then saying you're the head of it?

Uh...it makes people twitchy. People like Haven, that they're allied with fairly closely. Part of why Rapture went to investigate Pantheon in the first place was to insure they weren't megalomanics with pretensions to godhood.

Honestly, Pantheon's best move is probably to institute some kind of Constitutional Monarchy and cede most of the civil powers to a non-parahuman government while the 'crown' holds military matters 'in trust' as well as dealing with parahuman affairs.

Appointing other powerful and influential parahumans into non-heritable (or even heritable) positions of de-facto nobility (even if they don't call the positions that) and giving them a limited amount of authority over a given territory in conjunction with some kind of civil functionary or beauracrat would also be a good move. Then you can build a House of 'Lords' and 'Commons' where parahumans can go to their local 'noble' to appeal if they feel they're being descriminated against or if they're having problems with other parahumans. Hell, the parahumans could even be responsible for 'electing' a 'noble' to represent them.

On the planetary scale? I think the best system would be some manner of Federated Monarchy similar to pre-WWI Imperial Germany. Gaea and Khepri would be the Diarchy, probably some kind of 'Empresses' and the parahuman functionaries would have some kind of elected noble or royal title, like a lesser monarch or prince, while also maintaining a civilian elected executive and parliament. The subsidary polities would either elect or appoint representatives to a planetary council of Lords and Commoners (who would still be citizens) to sit before the Heads of the 'Empire.'

Come to think of it...this even works out for a separate law code like the Nobles used to be held to in the Magna Carta...although you might want to make that a little more strict than the one the Magna Carta put into place.

...and wow, this is what I get for being a history major, I guess.
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Wow, and here I'm thinking, "Taylor would make an excellent Gestapo for a totalitarian dictatorship".

Never put me in power.
 
Hesperdies would be a good name for their planet/country that wouldn't immediately freak people out but is still associated with their theme

Zack would suggest Themiscyra or Nysa and then get slapped by well, everyone.
 
I'm really liking Avalon as well. Pantheon is using gods from many different religions to really use Olympus. And Avalon conveys the sense of stay calm we're coming.
 
Avalon, Olympus, and Asgard all sound good but all have problems from PR standpoints.

Avalon could be associated with GU, aside from that, the Fae in classic literature were kinda dicks to everyone and kidnapped children.

Asgard has connection to Norse lore, and unfortunately all Norse lore is tainted by E88 and Neo-Nazis.

Olympus actually sounds good...but it has a major core problem that the others also have.

All of these places are realms of the supernatural, using them as a name is subconsciously stating that Parahumans are the only residents in this civilization. Olympus would be great as a name for a group, but a society is what they have. Not just a organization but a civilization. They need to make it clear that normal people are welcome as well.

Tbh, the best thing you can go for with mixing the God theme and a Civilization name would be something like New Babylon. It was the first civilization on Earth that we know of, and its symbolic in that way while still connecting to Pantheons Divinity theme.
 
BlackBulletOfSeven said:
All of these places are realms of the supernatural, using them as a name is subconsciously stating that Parahumans are the only residents in this civilization. Olympus would be great as a name for a group, but a society is what they have. Not just a organization but a civilization. They need to make it clear that normal people are welcome as well.
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Heh.

Zion.

Or, perhaps Eden.
 
Eastern Calculus said:
Wow, and here I'm thinking, "Taylor would make an excellent Gestapo for a totalitarian dictatorship".

Never put me in power.
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Yeah...I'll make a note of that.

Honestly, though, I think Constitutional Monarchy is their best bet. It strikes a fairly good balance between that whole 'representative government' thing us Westernerns have a hard-on for as well as the 'parahuman feudalism' Cauldron's so keen on pushing.

Granted, Totalitarian Dictatorship would be fairly viable at this point, but it'd be a PR nightmare. Even an absolutist monarchy has a certain faux-romantic charm to it, if you evoke the proper imagery. Totalitarianism? It'll make people think of Stalin or Hitler, and that's not a good thing, although where someone draws the line between absolutist monarchy and totalitarian dictatorship is pretty vague...it's probably splitting hairs at that point, in function if not form at least.

Pantheon still needs to play the PR game, though, so it's probably best if they avoid...certain imagery and allusions.
 
The thing about democracy is that it simply doesn't work when Thinkers come into play. It starts from the core assumption that all people are roughly equal. When you have people like Accord and his ability to come up with workable solutions to seeming intractable solutions in hours, or Tattletales ability to derive obscene amounts of data from minimal input, the opinions of different people stop being equally valid.
 
BlackBulletOfSeven said:
All of these places are realms of the supernatural, using them as a name is subconsciously stating that Parahumans are the only residents in this civilization. Olympus would be great as a name for a group, but a society is what they have. Not just a organization but a civilization. They need to make it clear that normal people are welcome as well.
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I thing this is a strong point. In that case I retract my support of Avalon.
Slayer Anderson said:
Yeah...I'll make a note of that.

Honestly, though, I think Constitutional Monarchy is their best bet. It strikes a fairly good balance between that whole 'representative government' thing us Westernerns have a hard-on for as well as the 'parahuman feudalism' Cauldron's so keen on pushing.

Granted, Totalitarian Dictatorship would be fairly viable at this point, but it'd be a PR nightmare. Even an absolutist monarchy has a certain faux-romantic charm to it, if you evoke the proper imagery. Totalitarianism? It'll make people think of Stalin or Hitler, and that's not a good thing, although where someone draws the line between absolutist monarchy and totalitarian dictatorship is pretty vague...it's probably splitting hairs at that point, in function if not form at least.

Pantheon still needs to play the PR game, though, so it's probably best if they avoid...certain imagery and allusions.
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If Pantheon is in charge of the government then they get to decide what it will be, and if they want a democratic government then they'll get it. They should want one. The parahuman feudalism thing was only ever done out of necessity, not because it was a particularly good idea. I assume Pantheon knows enough about human history to see why a democratic government is optimal. Having a government led by parahumans, most of which are fucked in the head in various ways and hooked up to giant space whales that push them towards conflict is a bad idea.

I think the romanticism you mentioned when it comes to certain forms of government is blinding you to all the bloody lessons learned over the course of human history.

As I said when this was brought up in a similar situation, an ideal form of government is one that involves AI in some way. AI that are entirely unbiased and not susceptible to the corruption or influence found in today's democratic societies. I think Governance from To The Stars is a good example, though I haven't read that story in a long while.

Dragon is capable of creating minor AI I believe. Managing them was her purpose even. She is the one I have in mind as a source of help for this.
pheonix89 said:
The thing about democracy is that it simply doesn't work when Thinkers come into play. It starts from the core assumption that all people are roughly equal. When you have people like Accord and his ability to come up with workable solutions to seeming intractable solutions in hours, or Tattletales ability to derive obscene amounts of data from minimal input, the opinions of different people stop being equally valid.
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Democracy works if the people at the top want it to work. Parahumans having extra responsibilities or privileges because of their power does not and should not invalidate everyone else. You don't give people more votes in elections because they have a PhD, though I'm sure many of them like to think they deserve as much.
 
Inverness said:
If Pantheon is in charge of the government then they get to decide what it will be, and if they want a democratic government then they'll get it. They should want one. The parahuman feudalism thing was only ever done out of necessity, not because it was a particularly good idea. I assume Pantheon knows enough about human history to see why a democratic government is optimal. Having a government led by parahumans, most of which are fucked in the head in various ways and hooked up to giant space whales that push them towards conflict is a bad idea.

I think the romanticism you mentioned when it comes to certain forms of government is blinding you to all the bloody lessons learned over the course of human history.

As I said when this was brought up in a similar situation, an ideal form of government is one that involves AI in some way. AI that are entirely unbiased and not susceptible to the corruption or influence found in today's democratic societies. I think Governance from To The Stars is a good example, though I haven't read that story in a long while.

Dragon is capable of creating minor AI I believe. Managing them was her purpose even. She is the one I have in mind as a source of help for this.
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Well, if you're going to involve AI, then the entire 'government' paradigm changes. Honestly, under the guidance of any half-competent AI managing resources, distribution, etc...you reach Post Scarcity or Singularity pretty damn fast.

Past that point? It's questionable if government as an institution is even viable beyond 'giving people something to do so they can feel important and involved.'

On the note of Democracy being 'inherently' better than any other system of government, I'll have to disagree. Democracy has a lot of problems and I'll be the first to admit that other systems (even and especially monarchies and feudal systems) have their own problems as well. No government is any more 'optimal' than any other. If you'd read my earlier post, though, my point was to give parahumans largely ceremonial 'noble' titles that don't really give them much functional power. In my idealized version, such a governmental construct would center around a parliamentary system where the House of Lords (to use Britain's example) would be replaced by a House Of Parahumans, and the House of Commons would be the House of Citizens (or something). Functionally, it would very much be some manner of representative government ruled 'by the people,' but offer a different route of representation and different rules for governing parahumans, because they *need* a different set of rules.

Parahumans and humans are inherently unequal. To treat them as such under the auspices of either the law or government is...well, not going to work. This way, parahumans get to be told they're 'special and important' while not having too much actual power to fuck with the system, because as you said, Spacewhales are in their brains.

Returning to the AI-government, though, I completely agree. That beats out any human-governed system by so much it's not even funny.
 
So if we're still on the name suggestions for the new country?

Pangaea.

Yes, why? I'm still going with the Greek Worlds with "Pan-" in it. First it was Pan-acea, the all-healing. Right now it's Pan-theon, all-of-the-gods. Why not Pan-gaea, all of the earth?

It's a nice rub in the face of all the other countries, that they do not, and will not, have a territory larger than Pantheon, among other things.

Also, it has the prudence of not stating the form of government in its official name, giving the necessary flexibility if Pantheon decides to shake things up someday.

EDIT: Oh. and about AI-managed governments. Just ensure that said AI has Dragon-quality ethics code. Because if it's the staple Rationality!AI (also known as artificial Armsmaster personality) they'll do stupid things like mandated euthanasia for cripples because it drains the resources otherwise.
 
Student of Zelretch said:
I *Think* she's referring to Tattle herself, but I'm not sure.
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You people are either sarcastic or blind. LISA SECOND-TRIGGERED WHEN SHE CONCLUDED THAT SHE HAD CAUSED TAYLOR'S DEATH. It is LITERALLY impossible that Lisa does not care about Taylor. Because, y'know, if she didn't care about Taylor then causing Taylor's death could not POSSIBLY have trumped India in terms of trauma.

Trauma which is the cause of the second trigger.

EDIT: now that I'm not looking at a page more than two hours old, and have blown off some steam chewing a guy out for sketchy reasons, may I humbly suggest Valinor? Because somebody has to make the reference---

oh. oh dear god. Did Christopher manage to publish the Silmarillion in the Wormverse? THE SIMURGH IS AT WORK HERE.
 
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I'm partial to calling their new nation Sanctuary.

so how quickly can Dragon Pull stakes and Move her primary Hub to Yggdrasil?
 
BlackBulletOfSeven said:
Tbh, the best thing you can go for with mixing the God theme and a Civilization name would be something like New Babylon. It was the first civilization on Earth that we know of, and its symbolic in that way while still connecting to Pantheons Divinity theme.
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You're thinking of Sumer, actually. The first time Babylon ruled something was about 600 years after the Sumerians got overthrown by the Akkadians.
 
Slayer Anderson said:
Well, if you're going to involve AI, then the entire 'government' paradigm changes. Honestly, under the guidance of any half-competent AI managing resources, distribution, etc...you reach Post Scarcity or Singularity pretty damn fast.

Past that point? It's questionable if government as an institution is even viable beyond 'giving people something to do so they can feel important and involved.'
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Are you trying to suggest this is a bad thing? Less involved a government needs to be in society the better off you are. On a lower scale, the sign of a good society would but that police have less work to do, not more.
On the note of Democracy being 'inherently' better than any other system of government, I'll have to disagree. Democracy has a lot of problems and I'll be the first to admit that other systems (even and especially monarchies and feudal systems) have their own problems as well. No government is any more 'optimal' than any other.
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I'm not sure how you could believe this unless you've just ignored history entirely.

Humans are flawed creatures. The more power you concentrate in a human the more these flaws are magnified through their behavior. The more a government does this the more inferior it is.

Parahumans are even more flawed. They're people that in normal cases have extreme psychological damage and have giant alien space whales plugged into their brains that promotes more extreme attitudes and guides them towards conflict. Conflict is the last thing society needs.
If you'd read my earlier post, though, my point was to give parahumans largely ceremonial 'noble' titles that don't really give them much functional power. In my idealized version, such a governmental construct would center around a parliamentary system where the House of Lords (to use Britain's example) would be replaced by a House Of Parahumans, and the House of Commons would be the House of Citizens (or something). Functionally, it would very much be some manner of representative government ruled 'by the people,' but offer a different route of representation and different rules for governing parahumans, because they *need* a different set of rules.
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Parahumans only need a different set of rules if the government is incapable of imposing the same set of rules on them as everyone else.

Giving them titles like this is nothing more than undeserved appeasement. Parahumans who use their power to contribute to society should be appropriately rewarded just as any human is.

Elevating someone's status by default because they have superpowers granted by a race that wants to foster conflict and eventually destroy humanity is sending entirely the wrong message. This is only something you would need to do if you were incapable of doing otherwise. Pantheon seems to be on a path that would not require such appeasement in society which is why I don't consider it.
Parahumans and humans are inherently unequal. To treat them as such under the auspices of either the law or government is...well, not going to work. This way, parahumans get to be told they're 'special and important' while not having too much actual power to fuck with the system, because as you said, Spacewhales are in their brains.
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Parahumans and humans are inherently unequal, but not in a way that makes parahumans better at running a government. Their tendancy towards conflict in fact makes them worse at it if their extremes are not mitigated by other checks on their power.

This is why democracy is important. Spreading around power and then using checks and balances to mitigate failings results in less problems overall.

This is why having AI involved in government (not that I'm suggesting they entirely take over government) is important. AI do not have many of the flaws humans do. Having this aspect contribute to government is a very, very valuable thing.

All in all, it seems like your view of what kind of government would come about is one that is too weak to institute a proper democratic government, instead being forced to kowtow to parahumans with fancy titles to appease their undeserved sensibilities of importance.
 
the only problem with AI's are this,they cam trigger like humans as well.
 
Here's an idea for a planet name (really planet and nation name)/basis for a government:

Yggdrasil, just like the hybrid plant.


Just like the namesake I see Yggdrasil as a planet covered in Gaea made life, therefore there will be less inorganic and consequently unobserved structures. Taylia and its parts can control and observe biological matter at range this in conjunction with AI embedded into the plant-life of Yggdrasil via the Upload/Download tech you can create an entire planet that is a living breathing city monitored by AI capable of routing emergency services handling food, and numerous other action that a government must preform.

Armies can be raised in instants as a result of the sheer biomass available, clean power (as already demonstrated in the thread), efficient resource production and usage, it rapidly approaches Post-Scarcity levels.

As for the government, with the inclusion of Para-humans from the beginning, especially ones that can out think or murder an entire planet in seconds creates a situation where there is an unequal distribution of potential/power. For example Gaea owns the entire planet, the ENTIRE BIOSPHERE is her creation she is in control of a planets worth of resources at any given time. You don't just ignore such a disproportion power distribution, that is how things break. This is why I would propose a self-limited Absolute Monarchy. The government would function as the source of power [I am a firm believer than actions and ability maintain better the words and ideals, this seems especially true when people can fly/throw fire and other para-human actions] for any institution that are created in its name. For example a House of Thinkers whose sole purpose is to ensure a continual expansion of the nation or a Tech Guild, like the AdMech, whose function is to create tinkertech and the principles that allow them to work expanding human knowledge of physics.

TL;DR Yggdrasil, the living planet government. Run by an Absolute Monarchy that has institutions as a way of preventing direct expression of power.
 
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