1. Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. If you wish to change your username, please ask via conversation to tehelgee instead of asking via my profile. I'd like to not clutter it up with such requests.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. A note about the current Ukraine situation: Discussion of it is still prohibited as per Rule 8
    Dismiss Notice
  7. The rules regarding NSFW links have been updated. See here for details.
    Dismiss Notice
  8. The testbed for the QQ XF2 transition is now publicly available. Please see more information here.
    Dismiss Notice

D&D - Psionics, your opinion?

Discussion in 'General' started by tehelgee, Feb 15, 2015.

?

Your view of psionics?

  1. I like them, and I like they way they were implemented in the past.

    12 vote(s)
    52.2%
  2. I like them, but they were implemented poorly in previous editions.

    1 vote(s)
    4.3%
  3. I don't like them, but I like the systems they had.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. I don't like them, and their implementation was horrid.

    1 vote(s)
    4.3%
  5. I'm ambivalent.

    3 vote(s)
    13.0%
  6. I LIEK CHOCOLAT MILK

    6 vote(s)
    26.1%
  1. tehelgee

    tehelgee The stern gaze of justice. Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,910
    Likes Received:
    12,707
    One of the biggest divides in the D&D fandom is over the existence of psionics. Many fans of the game absolutely hate them, while others love it.

    I find them intriguing, as it adds a third side to the competition between arcane and divine as sources of supernatural power, and I'm looking forward to seeing how 5th Edition handles them.

    What about the rest of you? How do you feel about psionics?
     
    Sol Mark-1 and Valette-Serafina like this.
  2. TanaNari

    TanaNari Verified Dick

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Messages:
    24,829
    Likes Received:
    263,850
    Can't speak for 4E- because I refuse to use the system- but the 3.0/3.5 psionics were very well done. It comes from being one of the "newer" casting mechanics, much like the Unearthed Arcana classes and Tome of Battle. While standard arcane and divine casting are pretty much shit from the beginning and only got worse with every new splatbook.
     
    Sol Mark-1 and Valette-Serafina like this.
  3. Kiriel

    Kiriel Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Messages:
    438
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    I find it one of the more... balanced systems in D&D. Granted, some of the stuff is bad, but compared to problems of arcane and divine magic, Psionics is better. Especially with Eberron.
     
    Sol Mark-1 and Valette-Serafina like this.
  4. The Shadowmind

    The Shadowmind Well worn.

    Joined:
    May 29, 2014
    Messages:
    9,435
    Likes Received:
    79,500
    3.0 psionics had problems, when is was redone in 3.5 with the XPH, I felt they were fairly fine. Well expect for the Soulknife. Then Complete Psionics comes out and nerfs Astral Construct in order to make a prestige class from Complete Psionics do something it also released some of the more overpowered powers and near useless ones. Never touched 4E and haven't reviewed 5E/Next yet. 3.5 psionics also didn't get anywhere near the support that magic got. Eberron books, Dragon Magic, Lords of Madness. Still more than the Binder, Warlock, and Shadowcaster Tome of Battle classes got.
    Playing the Truenamer has been shown to cause the player to lose their ability to taste ice-cream.
     
    Sol Mark-1 and Valette-Serafina like this.
  5. tehelgee

    tehelgee The stern gaze of justice. Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,910
    Likes Received:
    12,707
    The concept of the Truenamer is great, I love the idea. Learning the true names of stuff, being able to use that to influence, control, and alter the subject? All cool ideas.

    The mechanics make me want to take a buckshot mouthwash.
     
  6. Silenced_Ash

    Silenced_Ash Making the rounds.

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    70
    In my playgroup almost no one ever used Psionics. The only person who played with Psionics decided to play a Soulknife, and I felt as though he contributed very little to the group. He apparently really liked it though, as he went on to play it in a few other campaigns. I do seem to recall the mechanics behind Psionics to be balanced, at least, in comparison to ordinary spellcasters. I also really love the concepts behind the psionic classes that I've seen. (I'm talking about 3.5, as I have no experience with anything else)
     
    Sol Mark-1 and Valette-Serafina like this.
  7. anechoic

    anechoic they/them/theirs

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    Unfortunately, most of my D&D experience comes from fanfics and TG posts, so I don't really know that much about Psionics. That said, I like the fluff but from what I can tell the mechanics range reasonably balanced and fun to hideously over or underpowered and stupid, depending on the exact system you're using.
     
  8. doomlord9

    doomlord9 Experienced.

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    28,710
    The main part I like about D&D Psionics, at least the 3E/3.5E version, is that they work on the mana system rather than a slot system. You have x number of psi points and each ability costs a certain amount to use, mix and match as you please. Also it works on power pre-reqs rather than being limited by level which in one campaign was extremely important for me. I knew our DM was kinda a dick and so were a few of the other players so I specialized and got Psionic Disintegrate at level 4. Yeah it cost 40 PP to use and my max was 44 PP but when the DM threw a beholder at us when the highest party member was lvl 5 for shiggles, I rolled a 20 on my initiative, dumped everything I had, and we gained a level when the beholder failed its save. The DM was kinda annoyed at that as was the player who talked him into it.

    On a related note, psions are also some of the best in the standard "You have been captured and must escape" scenarios since without special psionic disruptors they can't be disarmed. Take away a priests holy symbol or a mages spell book/reagents and they are damn near crippled. Sorcerers are good too though since their magic is innate but they still work on the slot system which kinda annoys me in general.

    4E is not D&D, it's D&D Lite for casual tabletop gamers.

    I have no idea what 5E is even rumored to be like so I can't comment on it.
     
    1986ctcel, anechoic and Sol Mark-1 like this.
  9. ultima333

    ultima333 Happy Sunflower Time Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2014
    Messages:
    3,454
    Likes Received:
    17,721
    My experience comes from 3.5, so I find Psionics to be pretty interesting. The 'Power/Psi Point' system is a nice, simpler alternative than the spell slots system for newer players, who might be more used to other RPG games with 'mana' based spell usage.

    The one thing I absolutely hate about Psionics is that they wanted to treat it as separate from magic completely. Spell resistance? It's psionic, so it goes straight through it. Anti-Magic fields? Oh, that's okay, it's not an anti-psi field, so it doesn't hinder them at all.

    Luckily quite a few groups house rule it as "Psionics is just another form of magic, like divine or arcane." This makes it more balanced, instead of having it lopsided and confusing with a separate stat and such for psionics.

    Other than that, though, I don't mind them at all, and find them pretty good.
     
    Valette-Serafina likes this.
  10. doomlord9

    doomlord9 Experienced.

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    28,710
    The house rule we used was that magic protections gave half their resistance vs psi and the same in reverse. It made one not completely rape the other without penalties but still encouraged finding resistance for both.
     
  11. The Shadowmind

    The Shadowmind Well worn.

    Joined:
    May 29, 2014
    Messages:
    9,435
    Likes Received:
    79,500
    Ummm, Psionic/ Magic transparency is the default rule. Spell resistance and Power Resistance both protect against spells and powers aat equal rate. Having magic not affect powers and vice verses is a variant rule.

    People not understanding this is one of the things that gives psionics a bad name. Another one is that you can only spent power points equal to your manifester level, unless you have an ability that allows otherwise.
     
    Valette-Serafina likes this.
  12. tehelgee

    tehelgee The stern gaze of justice. Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
    2,910
    Likes Received:
    12,707
    I don't like the idea of magic and psionics interacting 100% evenly with each other, because then psionics is just a variant rule for magic. I agree with doomlord's idea, that magic and psionics should only partially interact.

    Magic can protect you from magic, and psionics from psionics. But, they're a lot less effective when used against each other. This way, nobody can be immune from both sides with a single spell/power.

    And magic has a lot more support in the books, it has a lot more abilities than psionics does.
     
    Valette-Serafina likes this.
  13. mkire

    mkire Lee-ko is adorable

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    647
    I like psionics, they can be over powered if you only have one encounter a day, but the same is true of regular spell-casters.
     
  14. TotalAbsolutism

    TotalAbsolutism Magnificent Bastard Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Messages:
    3,673
    Likes Received:
    36,759
    I love 3.5e Psionics, and find it to be one of the more balanced casting systems in general for D&D. 4E was... 4E, we won't go there. I'm cautiously optimistic about 5th and how it handles them.

    Regarding psionic/magic; they're the same thing. The whole mind-power and crystals and ectoplasm stuff is fairly new-age fluff that mostly came about from pseudoscience and sci-fi. Which is one of the reasons why I get annoyed when people claim they don't want to allow it in their games because it "doesn't fit". That's all well and good, maybe it doesn't, but I can fix that in about 30 seconds with a simple Find + Replace. At which point it's then revealed that they're just biased and that was a convenient excuse.

    That, and I once read the entirety of a WotC Forums 3.5e Psionics Balance debate. 48 pages of wrongheaded insanity and rehashing the same arguments over and over. Damn.

    Basically; love it, want more, but some people ruin it for all of us.