Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Greymere]

Didn't we have an obligation to go on some dangerous expedition, Beyond the Edge of the World or something like that?

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I'm guessing you're talking about "Beyond the Map's Edge", for Baldomare's SH Sacrament? Not this turn, and I don't believe it's exceptionally dangerous, based on its description. Baldomare's busy giving us a Lantern Influence this turn, so she can't offer us Sacrament, but it's a definite possibility next turn assuming Biedde doesn't completely curbstomp us.

 

[Shaper47]

Didn't we have an obligation to go on some dangerous expedition, Beyond the Edge of the World or something like that?
This is what Bladomare wants and should give us a Promotion for Secret Stories

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No?

It requires a Baldomare AP and a Velvet AP and we've already used the Baldomare AP for her Lantern influence.

 

[spiderhellian]

Study (2x), by priority: Moth 5 book, Lantern 4 artifact, Winter 4 artifact, Moth 3 artifact, Manehattan book

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Iirc there's some vaguely annoying thing here because of Lantern Sacrament efficiencies (3 Books OR 2 artefacts OR artefact + book) we kinda need to split this out…

And hey we should definitely rank Manehattan book above low level artefacts, we've learned expeditions are extremely good value and that seems promising.

 

[ses]

Got it, that's really helpful, thank you. Did anyone do the math on how much we can expect to be able to study given 2 vs 3 actions, with some reasonable priority order?

…We are aiming for Moth sacrament next turn, right? And Grail sacrament as rebinding? Man I'll miss the Moth Grail wombocombo, it seemed like it would be such an interesting scene.

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The main benefit to 3x study action is the Moth 3 artifact.

2 study: Lantern and Winter artifacts and Moth 5 book almost certainly, Moth 3 artifact only if we lucksack hard. Manehattan book probable if no Moth 3 artifact. (oneshot the Moth book for moth artifact, 2shot for manehattan book)
3 study: Everything important basically guaranteed but we invest an extra AP into too much studying for the important stuff we have and have to probably read shitty low level books and the knock 2 artifact with the leftovers.

Didn't we have an obligation to go on some dangerous expedition, Beyond the Edge of the World or something like that?
This is what Baldomare wants and should give us a Promotion for Secret Stories, right?

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Beyond the Map's Edge is the Baldomare SH sacrament, requires a Velvet AP and a Baldomare AP. We can't do it this turn because baldie is occupied. It's not particularly dangerous but it has a disclaimer only so we dont think of it as a QM guarantee of no-danger. So probably like, slightly more danagerous than the baby-tier Selene fetching expedition Rarity got a wound on way back at the start of the quest.

Iirc there's some vaguely annoying thing here because of Lantern Sacrament efficiencies (3 Books OR 2 artefacts OR artefact + book) we kinda need to split this out…

And hey we should definitely rank Manehattan book above low level artefacts, we've learned expeditions are extremely good value and that seems promising.

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Very much agreed the Manehattan book is higher prio than the Knock 2 artifact. I'm highly against 3x study actions if the thread is going to refuse to read the Knock 5 book out of a desire to keep the Baldomare lifeline. Our AP is too important and Jade Whistle can spend her actions on Studying artifacts for us now.

 

[Greymere]

Got it, that's really helpful, thank you. Did anyone do the math on how much we can expect to be able to study given 2 vs 3 actions, with some reasonable priority order?

…We are aiming for Moth sacrament next turn, right? And Grail sacrament as rebinding? Man I'll miss the Moth Grail wombocombo, it seemed like it would be such an interesting scene.

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I didn't check the math on everything, just the Moth 5 book and the Lantern 4 artifact since those are the Important Things, but:

Rolling X + 40 (Influence) +20 (Lantern 4) +14 (Learning), with -50 for Moth book

If reroll is spent on Moth 5 book:
~72% chance of first-trying it (opens slot for extra artifact study)
~98% chance of getting it in two attempts (opens slot for extra book study)
~99.99% chance of getting it in three attempts (no extra slots)

85% chance of success per attempt at studying the Lantern 4 artifact

If reroll is spent on the Lantern artifact instead:
~25% chance of first-trying the book
~87% chance of getting it in two attempts
~99.7% chance of getting it in three attempts

~99% chance of success per attempt at studying the Lantern 4 artifact

Iirc there's some vaguely annoying thing here because of Lantern Sacrament efficiencies (3 Books OR 2 artefacts OR artefact + book) we kinda need to split this out…

And hey we should definitely rank Manehattan book above low level artefacts, we've learned expeditions are extremely good value and that seems promising.

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I don't think we need to split it out. It's a priority list, so Bird can go down it and pick which options are actually possible as the rolls move along. We oneshot the Moth book? Two slots left in that study action, move on to artifact. Two attempts for the Moth book? Well the only thing that can fill that spot is the Manehattan book, so in it goes.

 

[ses]

Rolling X + 40 (Influence) +20 (Lantern 4) +14 (Learning), with -50 for Moth book

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Slightly higher due to Well Read and our artifact bonus from the SH 3 book (We've had minions use it for rituals and use it ourselves for studying in the same turn before)

 

[Shaper47]

Did anyone do the math on how much we can expect to be able to study given 2 vs 3 actions, with some reasonable priority order?

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It's been a while but I think I did. It's just that I have forgotten by now.

Double checking.

20 (lore application) + 14 (learning) + 40 (lantern influence) + (5 to +15) (SH artifact) = 79 to 89 bonus for artifacts

Artifact DC 90

So roll 1 to 11 or better

20 (lore application) + 14 (learning) + 5 (Well Read) + 40 (lantern influence) + (5 to +15) (SH artifact) - 50 (Ancient era deciphering) = 34 to 44

Moth Book 0/100

 

[Greymere]

Slightly higher due to Well Read and our artifact bonus from the SH 3 book (We've had minions use it for rituals and use it ourselves for studying in the same turn before)

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I don't think Well-Read applies to deciphering books, only reading them, but fair point on the SH artifact. Forgot about that.

 

[ses]

I don't think Well-Read applies to deciphering books, only reading them, but fair point on the SH artifact. Forgot about that.

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The deciphering/reading distinction was disposed of when the study rules were overhauled back on Turn 18. Well Read applies.

 

[spiderhellian]

Man, re-reading the previous vote, I was so sad we voted for uncool cannibalism as opposed to cool cannibalism. Now that's the hedonic treadmill right there — you get what you want, and you can't help but wanting more…

Mareinette would be proud.

Though really I'm sad we're not heading into Changeling Hive with our terrifying array of influences. That can't be our final personal AP, can it?

 

[Shaper47]

Though really I'm sad we're not heading into Changeling Hive with our terrifying array of influences. That can't be our final personal AP, can it?

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"..."​

It can be

 

[spiderhellian]

Wait wait wait, why can't that be a write-in for Softy! Take her and her friends on a little field trip! Give them a glimpse of what the noble heroes of the Lunar Bureau get up to! It's take your daughter to work day, Bird!

 

[Greymere]

The deciphering/reading distinction was disposed of when the study rules were overhauled back on Turn 18. Well Read applies.

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Alright then. New math!

Rolling X + 40 (Influence) + 20 (Lantern 4) + 14 (Learning) + 10 (Average Bonus From Artifact), with +5 (Well-Read) and -50 for Moth book

If reroll is spent on Moth 5 book:
~82% chance of first-trying it (opens slot for extra artifact study)
~99.8% chance of getting it in two attempts (opens slot for extra book study)
100% chance of getting it in three attempts (no extra slots)

95% chance of success per attempt at studying the Lantern 4 artifact. This also applies to the Winter 4 artifact, and anything lower level is a 100% success due to the lower DC.

For the sake of sanity, I put the artifact effect as +10 in the AnyDice calculation, since that's the median value of the bonus.

Man, re-reading the previous vote, I was so sad we voted for uncool cannibalism as opposed to cool cannibalism. Now that's the hedonic treadmill right there — you get what you want, and you can't help but wanting more…

Mareinette would be proud.

Though really I'm sad we're not heading into Changeling Hive with our terrifying array of influences. That can't be our final personal AP, can it?

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We're not allowed to double-dip on work.

 

[Shaper47]

Though really I'm sad we're not heading into Changeling Hive with our terrifying array of influences. That can't be our final personal AP, can it?

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Tell you what I'll make you a plan for that.

Got to show off to our daughters minions.

[] Killing Changelings in the Name of the Moon
-[] Before this month starts, you will perform a ritual to draw the attention of [Edge]
-[] The delights of subservience (Leash currently targeting: NO TARGET)
--[] Spoiled Milk
-[] [SOCIAL] Soft Sweeps Fleeting Action
-[] Invoke a Risen
-[] Learn of that bright Edge, that lives within us all
--[] Be blessed by that Wound, which never ceases to grow REGRETTABLE ACTION
-[] [LEARN] There is something about this… thing, and you must learn what it is
--[] Level 4 Lantern artifact then level 4 Winter artifact
-[] [LEARN] It doesn't have to be just during a leisure weekend evening, you can fit a few minutes of reading even when walking between rooms if you really get into it!
--[] Level 5 Moth Book x 3
-[] [MANSUS] The Blank Door
--[] [MANSUS] Visit the Garden of Mirrors, where the Mares attend the glassy flowers
---[] Study the flowers
--[] [MANSUS] Visit Baldomare's Beacon
---[] Study the Beacon
-[] [MANSUS] The Summit
--[] [MANSUS] Ponder upon the Final Gate.
--[] [MANSUS] Ponder upon that ruined Workshop, where Cherenkolt's remains lie scattered.
-[] Get your hoofs dirty and join the assault on Tall Tale with the Luna Bureau

 

[ses]

If reroll is spent on Moth 5 book:
~82% chance of first-trying it (opens slot for extra artifact study)
~99.8% chance of getting it in two attempts (opens slot for extra book study)
100% chance of getting it in three attempts (no extra slots)

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I'm really not seeing how we don't just put it as Moth 3 if we oneshot, Manehattan book if we 2shot and do 2 study actions. With those numbers on the Priority 1 artifacts and the Moth 5 book spending 3 study actions to get to the knock 2 artifact seems unjustifiable compared to teaching rarity or doing social.

Wait wait wait, why can't that be a write-in for Softy! Take her and her friends on a little field trip! Give them a glimpse of what the noble heroes of the Lunar Bureau get up to! It's take your daughter to work day, Bird!

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If QM lets us I'd go Starship Troopers in an instant. I was so sad that the vote swung for boring efficiency. Also technically if we sent Velvet by normal expedition rules it would cost 2 AP.

 

[Greymere]

I'm really not seeing how we don't just put it as Moth 3 if we oneshot, Manehattan book if we 2shot and do 2 study actions. With those numbers on the Priority 1 artifacts and the Moth 5 book spending 3 study actions to get to the knock 2 artifact seems unjustifiable compared to teaching rarity or doing social.

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They're extra sources of Lore on expeditions and they might have useful bonuses. And tbh, in the 2 Study AP plans, the priority of the last two spots in the list don't matter that much. It just boils down to oneshot -> study Moth artifact, twoshot -> Study Manehattan book

But yes, with the adjusted numbers, it's probably better to just do 2 AP on studying, since the most likely outcome seems to be twoshot Moth 5 -> Manehattan (bcuz slot limitations) -> Lantern artifact -> Winter artifact.

Edit: OH RIGHT, I think I remembered why I wanted to study all the artifacts. It's so we could liquidate them for bits if necessary, since Jade will only start her artifact-studying next turn.

 

[Greymere]

Something I wanted to point out re: Softy's cult. I find it kind of interesting that even though both the cult at large and Whacky Amor can recognize us as the Wolf-Mother, it's only Amor who is terrified of us. Perhaps Amor isn't completely claimed out by the Wolf yet, so its flame is still something to be feared?

Also:

Because her daughter had called them a group, and a gathering, and most importantly she called them her friends.

But the guest knew that, in truth, they were her followers. Her servants. Her… cult.

And innocent Soft Sweeps didn't even realize it.

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Selective blindness runs in the family, apparently! First with Velvet and her uncle's criminal empire, now with Soft and her burgeoning cult.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

You are Ashen Weaver.

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Oh wow...

This was delightful.

No, really, this was very, very good! Thank you so much for sharing it with us!

This was good in a "I actually want more of it" kind of way. I have a few notes, if you absolutely don't mind, but I definitely want to know where this is going.

Now, about those notes, I am only mentioning these things because I understand you to say that you want to improve your writing. So although I am not an authority in any of this, these are my two cents of what stuck out while I was reading.

First of all, these next few points aren't "negatives". But they definitely stuck out while I read through it:
-Sometimes you reversed to using "people" and other human describers. Especially closer to the end of the story. Seeing this always puts a smile on my face, because I can TELL that you were typing so quickly and so excitedly that those things just ran through the cracks. However, reading about a "person" with a "cutie mark" was definitely a small bump on the reading road.
-You also mentioned... I will have to go back and check, but I swore Weaver's story took place in a larger city. And here, he definitely returns to his "apartment", which I don't think exist in Ponyville yet. So, that definitely made me raise an eyebrow when Granny Smith was mentioned. Now, I completely understand mentioning named characters to give the readers something to ground themselves on. But for city-dwellers to have "Granny Smith" in their vocabulary without further explanation. I know she is an important figure in Ponyville, but if you weren't born and raised there, that wouldn't be a bonding point between you and your boss.

Now, for the things that I loved!
I seriously enjoyed the bleakness of the world. And I don't mean this in a "doom and gloom" way, but that felt like it was even bleaker than the Equestria of this quest.
I would expect that level of Overpowering Depression immediately after the Catastrophe. But after Cadance's wedding, the world in your story was one I would expect from maybe after we reach 4 or 5 Stains. Still, it was awesome.
You mentioned that using less Lore colors made it feel more bleak and sad, and I agree. But it was ina very atmospheric way.
I also absolutely loved the way you described his circumstances. I won't try to invent new vocabulary like "he had a Wolf Wound" or anything like that. But you managed to make it more visceral and personal even from the point of view of a character who didn't know what he had. The description of "I am exhausted and in pain, and it is so much that I can't even feel empathy anymore" struck a very deep chord. And that was awesome!

All in all, I unironically read this latest version while I had the previous version open in another tab, and I wholeheartedly agree this was an awesome improvement!

And again, "I liked this and I would like more of it, please "

So thank you for sharing it! And have a good one.

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Alright. So, first of all, I set a voting period that would START later tonight.

For some reason, the site ended the voting and said no votes were counted (obviously). I'll write that off as a bug.

I deleted that message, and will reconfigure the voting period. Hope it works now.

Just so we are all clear, voting starts tonight, and ends at an undefined date. So moratorium is still in effect.

Second:

Also repeating this question @OurLadyOfWires can Wrong Keys be used to supplement Jade's Knock in studying A Memory of the Path?

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I... actually don't remember.

If you are interested in doing that with Velvet's turn, right now, I can look it up and try to remember the rules for that. If not, we can revisit that next turn during the Follower's phase.


Third, quick reminder I'll only answer to direct @OurLadyOfWires pings so I don't bother y'all.

Have a nice day everyone! (I'll try to reopen the voting system with this post.)

 

[ses]

Have a nice day everyone! (I'll try to reopen the voting system with this post.)

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Our Lady of Wires always ended the missive with "I hope you are doing well" not "Have a nice day!"

ITS A CHANGELING!

 

[DelightedOne]

If you are interested in doing that with Velvet's turn, right now, I can look it up and try to remember the rules for that. If not, we can revisit that next turn during the Follower's phase.

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I... don't see how that would make sense considering Velvet's Knock 5 is higher than the Wrong Key's Knock 3. And Artifact levels overwrite natural levels so it would be a downgrade if we did that.

I just asked because I'm 90% sure the only way Path is getting done is if I put Jade to work on it and seeing as she has no Knock... artifact usage is the best option.

 

[Solace2117]

[] Plan: Goodbye Uncle Steppes
-[] (AotL) Edge
-[] (Knock) Explore the Ashen Wastes
-[] (Social) Fleeting Opportunity: Soft Sweeps
-[] Study (2x), by priority: Moth 5 book, Lantern 4 artifact, Winter 4 artifact, Manehatten book
-[] Uncle Steppes has been... distant, this month. But now, he asked for a moment of your time. "Just making sure everything is in order" he said, saying he has a gift for you. (Not picking this option will still net you his gift, but without your imput)
-[] Sacrament: Challenge Biedde

Glad to see the back. Super excited to finally dive into the Sacraments over the next two turns. Figured I'd toss out an obligatory Uncle Steppes option cause we're mostly in agreement on most actions. Figure it's probably better to explore the Wastes this turn, I don't think it'll be an issue meeting the other Edge Name, under Biedde's influence, the turn we're taking his Sacrament, but just to be safe.

I did put the Manehatten book over the Moth 3 artifact though I'm not overall committed to it. It's more by the rules if the Moth book takes two actions we'd have to do it by default since we can do books 3 times, but if we study even 1 artifact we only get one other study roll. I think the potential expeditions are worth more. Only other thing I'd potentially want to study is the Knock 2, assuming that's what we found under the Castle. I honestly don't remember and it's probably not worth it, but the book we found helped on the second expedition, I wonder if the artifact may help on the third. Considering the level probably not, but it's a thought.

As to the Soft Sweeps choice, definitely hesitant to loose another action as useful as the Cult could be, but with us prioritizing the lantern artifact it will make it easier for others to summon Mares-in-the-Light which could offset it.

 

[DelightedOne]

[] Plan Reminder, Light and Cold
-[] [AOTL] Edge
-[] [KNOCK] Ashen Wastes
-[] [SOCIAL] Soft Sweeps FO
-[] [STUDY] Moth 5 book and Manehattan book
-[] [STUDY] Lantern 4 artifact and Winter 4 Artifact
-[] [STUDY] A Memory of the Path
-[] [ACTION] Biedde Sacrament

[] Plan Reminder, Uncle is gone
-[] [AOTL] Edge
-[] [KNOCK] Ashen Wastes
-[] [SOCIAL] Soft Sweeps FO
-[] [STUDY] Moth 5 book Lantern 4 artifact
-[] [STUDY] A Memory of the Path
-[] [ACTION] Biedde Sacrament
-[] Uncle Steppes FO

[] Plan Reminder, Moth Superior
-[] [AOTL] Edge
-[] [KNOCK] Ashen Wastes
-[] [SOCIAL] Soft Sweeps FO
-[] [STUDY] Moth 5 book
-[] [STUDY] Lantern 4 artifact and Winter 4 artifact
-[] [STUDY] A Memory of the Path
-[] [ACTION] Biedde Sacrament


I think that is all variations that are interesting to me. If you're wondering why I didn't put the Manehattan Book in 2 of them, think about how many bits we are going to spend in the following turns and then on what a book with Expeditions will cost to use the knowledge it contains.

Yes, this is all because I'm trying to attract people that might be interested in very specific variations of the generic plan... and also because I won't be awake when voting opens so might drop these here now.

I did not sleep well after yesterday(too happy to sleep).

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

I... don't see how that would make sense considering Velvet's Knock 5 is higher than the Wrong Key's Knock 3. And Artifact levels overwrite natural levels so it would be a downgrade if we did that.

I just asked because I'm 90% sure the only way Path is getting done is if I put Jade to work on it and seeing as she has no Knock... artifact usage is the best option.

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Oh, that's what you meant. Sorry.

Because some specific actions allow you to use Reagents to speed up their progression, I thought you meant using a Wrong Key as a Reagent during research. I didn't consider that Wrong Keys occupy that weird "Kind of artifact kind of reagent" spot. I understand what you mean now.

No. We haven't talked much about research, from what I recall. But using an artifact, or borrowing the Lores from any other source, won't help with research.

There MIGHT be an argument that an Influence should help with a research? I would be amenable to that depending on the circumstances. But research, as we currently understand it, is Twilight Sparkle Egghead territory. So you can only apply a Lore if you really, personally, know it.

So having Jade progress Memory of Light won't have her use her Lore because she doesn't have any Knock on her. (But if you are fine not one-shotting things, which is how normal ponies face their day-to-day activities, then you could throw Jade at it just to see some progress).



Also, just throwing it out there. If anyone feels like we could use a longer moratorium, given the pause we have been through, please speak up.

 

[Greymere]

Also, just throwing it out there. If anyone feels like we could use a longer moratorium, given the pause we have been through, please speak up.

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In this instance, considering the vote's going to be open for a week or so from what you said (giving people time to catch up/refresh), I don't think it'll be needed. People will trickle back in if/when they do, and the Velvet phase actions were pretty well-discussed before the impromptu hiatus.