Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Arrkhon]

That said, I really think we should send Luna to at least spy/make contact with him in his dreams. Or put the Lunar Bureau on his tail.

He is an incredibly obvious threat. And while we want to focus on winning, not not-Losing, I think there are some pretty low-cost ways we could at least try to figure out what he's up to.

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Can't we just approach him politely for a talk instead of going in all guns blazing? I don't think we parted on bad terms so he probably wouldn't say no to a tea party

 

[spiderhellian]

Can't we just approach him politely for a talk instead of going in all guns blazing? I don't think we parted on bad terms so he probably wouldn't say no to a tea party

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The challenge is that we have no idea where he is

Yeah, we could have Luna make contact rather than simply spying, it's certainly less aggressive than sending the Lunar Bureau after him. It has the challenge of wanting to keep her-being-Luna secret, but she does have that Moth realization/it's not impossible that others could explore the Dreamworld...

 

[Pittauro]

That said, I really think we should send Luna to at least spy/make contact with him in his dreams. Or put the Lunar Bureau on his tail.

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While I'm not necessarily against it, Dreams do not inherently reveal the informations we'd want them to. And I'm not sure just how much Selene can MANIPULATE a dream to get what we want out of them.

The challenge is that we have no idea where he is

Yeah, we could have Luna make contact rather than simply spying, it's certainly less aggressive than sending the Lunar Bureau after him. It has the challenge of wanting to keep her-being-Luna secret, but she does have that Moth realization/it's not impossible that others could explore the Dreamworld...

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It could be interesting if we sent Luna to reveal "Velvet got to me and brought me to her side". Try to recruit Windy that way, make him think we're still following the Master's order but that we just found Luna AFTER he disappeared...

 

[spiderhellian]

While I'm not necessarily against it, Dreams do not inherently reveal the informations we'd want them to. And I'm not sure just how much Selene can MANIPULATE a dream to get what we want out of them.

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It's incredible how much more I'd prefer some level of information over zilch.

But really, I think we'd probably have options on how aggressive we want to play it, how ambitious we want our spying to try to be. But even if it's a clue for something we can then follow-up with in person, it's much much much better than our current "We have no clue what the world's second most lore-steeped pony has been doing for years"

 

[Arrkhon]

The challenge is that we have no idea where he is

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Just ask our most faithful son to deliver the invitation, he's sure to dream sooner or later
In fact we should invite the same son as well and just host it in his house to save on travel expenses, Ash deserves something for being only good to us, listening to what we say and not avoiding us like his life depends on it unlike the rest of the bunch, in fact Windy should enjoy his company, he's quite wolfy himself isn't he?

 

[DelightedOne]

It could be interesting if we sent Luna to reveal "Velvet got to me and brought me to her side". Try to recruit Windy that way, make him think we're still following the Master's order but that we just found Luna AFTER he disappeared...

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I like that.

But are we sure Windy is/was loyal to the Master? He wouldn't go to Velvet's side if he wanted out of the Cult and from what I remember he also wasn't aware of the Master still being alive... back then at least.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

My personal hope is that Neighnia tracked down Windy and got him back on track to make his Palest Painting rather than following Wolf Whispers (beyond that which is needed for a Palest Painting, anyways). If he is back to that, it both means that he is no longer reaching for Glory and is not planning to commit any atrocities, plus the Palest Painting is just really cool (pun intended).

He doesn't even need to commit any murders, since we accidentally provided the necessary corpse back when we pranked him with a Risen!

 

[Wise Wolf]

Windy is the world's second most lore-steeped pony who has been up to a Wolf-inflected plan for years.

He is almost certainly a very pressing threat to Equestria, and I would not be surprised if one of these turns we wake up to a city buried in Windigoes (or something much worse). He seems more threatening than Biedde, not least because he's Biedde's most likely next summoner.

His one "virtue", to my eyes, is that he is much more likely a threat to Equestria than a threat to us. That's a little being optimistic, but we were not on bad terms/enemies in the way Velvet was with Copper. He doesn't know we killed the Master, we could have infiltrated the Lunar Bureau all as part of the game... He is likely to bury a city in Windigoes, I think he is much less likely to send them after us.

That said, I really think we should send Luna to at least spy/make contact with him in his dreams. Or put the Lunar Bureau on his tail.

He is an incredibly obvious threat. And while we want to focus on winning, not not-Losing, I think there are some pretty low-cost ways we could at least try to figure out what he's up to.

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I'm not saying that we shouldn't do some cheap investigation here, but it's worth noting that, while he is the second most lore-steeped pony, he's enormously behind Velvet in resources. We have:

1. The Lunar Bureau, a "cult" at our command that can take investigatory actions and help us with raids.
2. Wealth. Just a lot of wealth compared to a common pony like Windy. Income as commissioner, Rarity commissions, etc. And we're STILL flush with great ways to spend more bits than we have for power. Power is expensive.
3. Names. Because we're the world's most lore-steeped pony, and went all-Lores, we climbed the Mansus faster, and got free summons from so many names. And that means Name blessings to reliably achieve things we lack the personal skill for, and Name actions (which are probably more powerful than Velvet actions.)

Overall, we're enormously more powerful than Windy and able to take far more, and far more potent actions each month increasing that power. We just don't need to be worried about Windy, unless he gets his hands on a superweapon like Biedde.

 

[spiderhellian]

Overall, we're enormously more powerful than Windy and able to take far more, and far more potent actions each month increasing that power. We just don't need to be worried about Windy, unless he gets his hands on a superweapon like Biedde.

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I agree with your premises. I don't agree with your conclusion.

It depends on what you're worried about. Do I think, for example, that Windy is more likely to claim the Glory than we are? No.

But there are significant things he can accomplish that we would rather he not.

For example, he could summon two Windigoes, and toss them at us. That would be a game over. Thankfully, I don't think this is that likely -- we're not his explicit enemy.

Or he could summon three Windigoes, and toss them at a city. Add an Ash Ghoul for spice. That wouldn't be a game over, but it would be a Catastrophe-level event happening under the Lunar Bureau's watch.

He does not have Wealth or resources, he has had time. So, so, so much time. Perhaps to make contact with Neighnea. Perhaps to achieve his Sacrament, and find whatever is behind the Winter Sacrament-locked barrier. Certainly enough to be a substantial threat to Equestria!

 

[Sveta08]

Overall, we're enormously more powerful than Windy and able to take far more, and far more potent actions each month increasing that power. We just don't need to be worried about Windy, unless he gets his hands on a superweapon like Biedde.

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Foreshadowing is a literary device in which-

 

[DelightedOne]

You know, its is funny how Windy could theoretically become a problem in a short amount of time. There are quite a few ways.

1. He knows Neighnia somehow. Either because Copper talked to him about her or because he went looking for her.

2. Conscription by Biedde. Quite obvious, but technically unexpected by Velvet.

3. Full steam to the Wolf worshipping.

4. Rival Cult leader.

Selene probably will have at least 1 action set to deal with Celestia next turn so maybe 1 to dreamwalk for scouting purposes for Windy and the last for scrying Neghnia. Unless it requires multiple actions(or gets better with more of them), then the Doom clock obviously takes priority.

 

[Wise Wolf]

You know, its is funny how Windy could theoretically become a problem in a short amount of time. There are quite a few ways.

1. He knows Neighnia somehow. Either because Copper talked to him about her or because he went looking for her.

2. Conscription by Biedde. Quite obvious, but technically unexpected by Velvet.

3. Full steam to the Wolf worshipping.

4. Rival Cult leader.

Selene probably will have at least 1 action set to deal with Celestia next turn so maybe 1 to dreamwalk for scouting purposes for Windy and the last for scrying Neghnia. Unless it requires multiple actions(or gets better with more of them), then the Doom clock obviously takes priority.

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We just signed up for a new Doom clock in Biedde. No way do we have time for three actions devoted to slowing down other possible dangers, because they don't even help the Biedde danger. Going Smiles was the most resources and most eventual threat option, and now we should act like it and work hard for All-In.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Or devote such actions to breaking Biedde's assets over our knee so he can't be summoned. Scry for his cultists and give them an offer they can't refuse.

If he doesn't have any, that's great.

 

[Pittauro]

For example, he could summon two Windigoes, and toss them at us. That would be a game over. Thankfully, I don't think this is that likely -- we're not his explicit enemy.

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It kinda depends.

Windigo is 3 health and +55 combat, with Velvet being 3 health and (presumably) +34.

We also still have the two bodyguards.

But until this turn we also had Biedde on Guard, who'd definitely be able to manage at least one Windigo.

Now we have Smiles, and we should seriously consider keeping him on guard duty unless we have essential things for him to do.

Between Velvet, the two guards, Smiles, and potentially I think there's a chance for a lucky help from other guests? We can manage.

Or he could summon three Windigoes, and toss them at a city. Add an Ash Ghoul for spice. That wouldn't be a game over, but it would be a Catastrophe-level event happening under the Lunar Bureau's watch.

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this is definitely true, but the question is if that's what he actually wants to do. To be fair, we don't quite understand his goals. The Master seemed to think Windy was still loyal... but then again, he thought the same of Velvet, sort of. There's definitely a risk though, seeing how he was trying to listen to the Wolf, how he got through the Branding Door and could thus reach the Wolf in the Mansus, AND that we've added one stain since he expressed this desire.

...you know, we probably can't afford it next turn, considering we need to do Forge 4 and Book 7, but we should SERIOUSLY consider a scrying for Neighnia in a couple turns. We'll see if we can afford it... We should reasonably be able to get back most of the bits we put forward for those expeditions...

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IMMEDIATE PRIORITIES NEXT TURN:

1) Forge Reagent 4 expedition
2) Book lvl 7 Expedition
3) One SH Sacrament, using Baldomare action and 1 or 2 from Velvet (depending on if Baldomare's or Velvet's).
4) Moth Sacrament
5) Mareinette Sacrament/Friendship


LOWER PRIORITIES, BUT STILL IN THE NEXT COUPLE TURNS

1) Canterlot Expedition
2) The other SH Sacrament
3) Potentially scrying for Biedde assets
4) Potentially scrying for Neighnia
5) Cherenkolt and Baldomare friendships as follow-ups to the expeditions.
6) The Manehattan expeditions (Smiles can do one per turn at least).
7) Lantern Sacrament (we only miss 1 scrap, so it's close-ish)
8) Mansus exploration, including Tower and Church.
9) Study the loot we get from the various expeditions.

 

[DelightedOne]

We just signed up for a new Doom clock in Biedde. No way do we have time for three actions devoted to slowing down other possible dangers, because they don't even help the Biedde danger. Going Smiles was the most resources and most eventual threat option, and now we should act like it and work hard for All-In.

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I would not put Biedde as a Doom clock. An Immortal Enemy, sure.

But a Doom clock is an instant game over for Velvet, Biedde is more of a very hard challenge to beat.

 

[Quaxotia]

The Master seemed to think Windy was still loyal... but then again, he thought the same of Velvet, sort of.

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He believed Velvet Covers was still loyal since she was continuing to pursue Glory. Likely the reason he thought Windy Flakes to be loyal was that he was pursuing another cult goal. A prominent and Wolf-aligned one was... dousing the lights. That would be in line with other people's predictions that he could be building up Windigoes to unleash on Equestria.

Or devote such actions to breaking Biedde's assets over our knee so he can't be summoned. Scry for his cultists and give them an offer they can't refuse.

If he doesn't have any, that's great.

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That is something I'm curious about. As far as I can tell we've never had Biedde pursue religious goals, only funded monster hunting expeditions. This isn't exactly a barrier to Names doing stuff offscreen, as we've with seen with Velvet Steppes and also the glimpses of what Mareinette has been doing in our estate.

Velvet Steppes is off the board to us, but I can't imagine he would be off the board for Biedde. Just how much has Biedde been able to put in place during his stay in the Wake? It's something we should scry for sooner rather than later.

 

[Wise Wolf]

I would not put Biedde as a Doom clock. An Immortal Enemy, sure.

But a Doom clock is an instant game over for Velvet, Biedde is more of a very hard challenge to beat.

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If Biedde is summoned into the wake without somehow disarming his doom clock, he will try to kill us.

If we do not have Smiles at home at that point, he will succeed. If we do have Smiles at home, it's a dice roll in his favor.

Like, we didn't need to sign up for this doom. The Coward's option was right there, ready for anyone who wanted to play the long game. It's more resource-consuming, but eventually more powerful to have two Names under our command.

We picked the "resources now in exchange for deadly danger later" option, and should try to win before the deadly danger manifests. Once we All-In, Neighnia, Celestia and Biedde don't matter. This isn't an absolute position; if you can cheaply buy a bit of security against a known game ender, great. We're operating with limited information, so cheap hedging is good. But our focus needs to be on a plan for Glory that happens too fast for things to spin out of control.

Edit: And spending three pseudo-Name actions on tasks that might or might not hedge against threats is definitely too much, IMO.

 

[DelightedOne]

And spending three pseudo-Name actions on hedging against threats is definitely too much, IMO.

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Then focus on Biedde with Jade's action to make it up. Got it.

But yeah, using 3 Selene AP to take care of all the threats at once is a bit too much. So better divide that over the next 3 turns. With Priority on Daybreaker so we disarm the Doom clock and are able to plan more calmly(and maybe up the Bureau's Edge to 2 so we get bodyguards of that level).

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

No
No we almost died to a mortal enemy we left alone, and I refuse to rush the final expedition where we either win or we die.
So we are going to be ruthless, we are going to be decisive, and we are going to sink some serious actions into ensuring no one can summon that stallion. No mass Name-Drops after we almost die, no we do Name-Drops as the enemy is disorganized and weak. We have a Name with the Secret of Betrayal, a Name with 6 Grail, and a history of averting the finality of battle through friendship and mutual admiration of third parties. We are going to flip Biedde's assets to the laughter of a giant and the clatter of a skull, and make them work for Velvet. Screw the Colonel, you all will learn to follow someone more merciful.

 

[Greymere]

IMMEDIATE PRIORITIES NEXT TURN:

1) Forge Reagent 4 expedition
2) Book lvl 7 Expedition
3) One SH Sacrament, using Baldomare action and 1 or 2 from Velvet (depending on if Baldomare's or Velvet's).
4) Moth Sacrament
5) Mareinette Sacrament/Friendship

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There is no way we can do both the Level 7 book expedition and the Level 6 Forge reagent expeditions in a single turn. They're just too expensive for it to be feasible.

 

[DelightedOne]

There is no way we can do both the Level 7 book expedition and the Level 6 Forge reagent expeditions in a single turn. They're just too expensive for it to be feasible.

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We could just bite the results of the RotT and pay for the reagent.

It is cheaper in AP and potentially in Bits(since I doubt we would throw the Daughter-of-Axes at it alone).

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Big Expeditions usually do have additional cool things in them, though.

 

[Pittauro]

There is no way we can do both the Level 7 book expedition and the Level 6 Forge reagent expeditions in a single turn. They're just too expensive for it to be feasible.

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We PROBABLY can, actually, if barely.


We started the turn with 105 bits.

After adding 200 from Edge 3 artifact sold, -60 for the two tapestry rituals, and + 53 from the loot, we're at 298.

Next turn we should be able to add Rarity (let's call it 50, probably a bit more) and our wage (160)

that's a total of 508 bits.

Assuming 2 beings sent on each of the two major expeditions, that's 300 (150 per person, Assuming two)+270 (135 per person) = 570 bits.

...ok, we're around 60 bits short. we COULD make it up by selling an artifact I think? It's something worth considering, as those expeditions will likely reward more of them.

I really want to point out that every single expedition has rewarded us far more in loot than what we paid for them.

I'd consider selling the Heart 3 artifact for 200 bits. That would allow us to afford those two expeditions, as well as one or two of the Manehattan ones (25/25/30 bits per person), and probably Baldomare's Sacrament expedition (40 bits total).

We'll also most likely get some bits back from them, as again we've finished every single expedition so far ahead of schedule, usually getting back 40% of the bits invested in them as we finished them in 60% of the time (as in, 3 days instead of 5, 6 days instead of 10)

So the turn after that we should have extra wealth to use for everything we want to do.


I have just one doubt: Can we sell an artifact and use the bits in the same turn? I don't remember if that's allowed.

If not, then yeah, we can't afford both expeditions, and Baldomare gets priority.

As a note, Canterlot part 3 is 120 bits per person, probably 240.

I don't think we can afford NOR should we send more than two beings per expedition. Not unless we really have bits to throw away.

 

[ses]

We PROBABLY can, actually, if barely.


We started the turn with 105 bits.

After adding 200 from Edge 3 artifact sold, -60 for the two tapestry rituals, and + 53 from the loot, we're at 298.

Next turn we should be able to add Rarity (let's call it 50, probably a bit more) and our wage (160)

that's a total of 508 bits.

Assuming 2 beings sent on each of the two major expeditions, that's 300 (150 per person, Assuming two)+270 (135 per person) = 570 bits.

...ok, we're around 60 bits short. we COULD make it up by selling an artifact I think? It's something worth considering, as those expeditions will likely reward more of them.

I really want to point out that every single expedition has rewarded us far more in loot than what we paid for them.

I'd consider selling the Heart 3 artifact for 200 bits. That would allow us to afford those two expeditions, as well as one or two of the Manehattan ones (25/25/30 bits per person), and probably Baldomare's Sacrament expedition (40 bits total).

We'll also most likely get some bits back from them, as again we've finished every single expedition so far ahead of schedule, usually getting back 40% of the bits invested in them as we finished them in 60% of the time (as in, 3 days instead of 5, 6 days instead of 10)

So the turn after that we should have extra wealth to use for everything we want to do.


I have just one doubt: Can we sell an artifact and use the bits in the same turn? I don't remember if that's allowed.

If not, then yeah, we can't afford both expeditions, and Baldomare gets priority.

As a note, Canterlot part 3 is 120 bits per person, probably 240.

I don't think we can afford NOR should we send more than two beings per expedition. Not unless we really have bits to throw away.

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You're forgetting immediate >100 bits from Rarity commission.

Sold artifacts dont give bits until end of turn.

And sending multiple Names on long expeditions is just not going to happen. Thinking we need to do that is just flatly wrong. Axe can and will solo a long expedition, and Mareinette can solo another. They'll be able to take artifacts including the Forge Name's lore levels, but multiple names on the same expedition dont stack their general bonus. The only thing they add is their +6 lore levels, which just flat out isn't worth 150 bits. Axe has 5 HP and regens one every turn. Mareinette has basically ~arbitrary HP. They can afford to retry hurdles. Expeditions are balanced around retrying hurdles. That's supposed to happen! The fact that they can hopefully line their expeditions up so that both long expeditions get the Forge Name artifact levels IS ALREADY sending two beings on each expedition in every way that matters! If Forge Name can't go on both of them then Axe+Forge Name in fun size form can do one and Mareinette+Selene can do another or something if you really insist.

Also we need the heartifact so Velvet can heal her wound next turn while spending 0 bits or AP lol. We're not selling that thing.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

DoA can solo any expedition that does not require talking to people.

Also, I don't think you can take an artifact on multiple expeditions on the same turn, barring entities that have the AP to go on multiple expeditions a turn carrying it, I guess.

 

[ses]

DoA can solo any expedition that does not require talking to people.

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Cherry Coat can also go in Rarity configuration (Forge major, Grail minor) to help with that weakness as well.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Cherry Coat can also go in Rarity configuration (Forge major, Grail minor) to help with that weakness as well.

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I wanted him Forge/Grail so badly. Would have been the perfect re-negotiator of Rarity's contract by both knowing what can actually be achieved and how to ask for it.

Sadly though, Antisocial says "All her bonus, regardless of circumstance or situation, fall down to a flat "+10" if she attempts to engage in any social action (even her usual +50 expedition bonus, if the hurdle being faced is social in nature)." Bonuses from Lore Levels are still bonuses, and thus get shoved down to +10. The only way around that is to have another person do the talking.

 

[Sk1lz3r]

No
No we almost died to a mortal enemy we left alone, and I refuse to rush the final expedition where we either win or we die.
So we are going to be ruthless, we are going to be decisive, and we are going to sink some serious actions into ensuring no one can summon that stallion.

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Talon is so right here. Our current situation reminds me of my late stage CS runs where the threats start to mount up because I stop managing them to rush the endings. It's never really worth it.

It only increases the risks of losing. Spending some more time to properly defend and protect can only do us good, and this is THE moment to do so.

 

[Pittauro]

You're forgetting immediate >100 bits from Rarity commission.

Sold artifacts dont give bits until end of turn.

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We didn't do commission this turn. You saying we get them immediately if we take it next turn?

though the 100 bits WOULD be enough.

And sending multiple Names on long expeditions is just not going to happen. Thinking we need to do that is just flatly wrong. Axe can and will solo a long expedition, and Mareinette can solo another. They'll be able to take artifacts including the Forge Name's lore levels, but multiple names on the same expedition dont stack their general bonus. The only thing they add is their +6 lore levels, which just flat out isn't worth 150 bits. Axe has 5 HP and regens one every turn. Mareinette has basically ~arbitrary HP. They can afford to retry hurdles. Expeditions are balanced around retrying hurdles. That's supposed to happen! The fact that they can hopefully line their expeditions up so that both long expeditions get the Forge Name artifact levels IS ALREADY sending two beings on each expedition in every way that matters! If Forge Name can't go on both of them then Axe+Forge Name in fun size form can do one and Mareinette+Selene can do another or something if you really insist.

Also we need the heartifact so Velvet can heal her wound next turn while spending 0 bits or AP lol. We're not selling that thing.

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If we're willing to send a SINGLE Name, that's even better for us and we can easily afford it.

You make a great point. Send Mareinette on one, Axe on the other, that's 150+135 = 285 bits, and we indeed can just send Cherenkolt in artifact form to both.

This actually saves us enough money we can then do multiple Manehattan expeditions (at least one from Smiles!), Baldomare's SH sacrament(if we don't have two actions for Velvet personal sacrament), and rituals as needed.

I was forgetting Cherenkolt in artifact form. That's not the first time I make this mistake.

Honestly if we had more actions available I'd love to send Velvet herself, but I don't think we can afford it with everything else on the line. Her actions are essential for her sacraments and the Mansus above all else, basically.

Sadly though, Antisocial says "All her bonus, regardless of circumstance or situation, fall down to a flat "+10" if she attempts to engage in any social action (even her usual +50 expedition bonus, if the hurdle being faced is social in nature)." Bonuses from Lore Levels are still bonuses, and thus get shoved down to +10. The only way around that is to have another person do the talking.

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well, hopefully she doesn't end up against a grail obstacle, or there's alternative ways. Many challenges allow for multiple approaches, for example diplomacy vs stealth.

 

[ses]

We didn't do commission this turn. You saying we get them immediately if we take it next turn?

though the 100 bits WOULD be enough.

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Commission income is immediate, artifact sales take a turn. That's correct.

It is just barely possible for us to squeeze Velvet into a Long expedition next turn actually. We're spending 3 AP on Sacraments next turn, and could potentially have 3 more AP from +1 Cover Your Bases and +1 Constables No Action. It would only cost us delaying Dodge City a month. I doubt we do that though. We're more likely to do Axe Solo and Mareinette+Selene if we insist on buying one extra expedition ticket The thrice-cursed gorge is likely to contain a Social hurdle as well as esoteric curses. Heart and Winter are the best lores for esoteric curses, we're probably going to have Mareinette carry the cursed Winter 4 artifact and simply have her spend her AP on Heart influence/lesson the turn after so the curse expires with mareinette having made no rolls that month. Meanwhile the swamp is the buried ruins of an ancient empire, which says Forge to me, so Axe+Cherenkolt seems good. I doubt we spend Selene AP+bits compared to having Axe and Mareinette solo.