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General World of Darkness Discussion Thread QQ Edition

Discussion in 'General' started by Maragas, Apr 7, 2021.

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  1. gereh

    gereh I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    To cite the 1E MtAw book
    So the first success provides all the "basic factors" of the spell, now the question becomes what does count as "basics factors" for the phantasmal weapon spell and you could argue that the weapon/armour rating modifiers are part of this. (It also comes with the fact that you have a whole role of successes you can use, while in the second method of ruling it that doesn't have to be the case, meaning an extended cast version may be at disadvantage to instant cast which never should be the case.

    It's not spelled out but it is implied that you need at least the amount of dots, if not higher, to apportate something, as you would need to manipulate it (which would be Matter 4 for a bomb)


    "Burst of Speed" as a buff should not be understated, because it let's you get around enemies and in position where they can't attack you as they need to perceive you to cast magic on you.

    They get +Mind amount of dice to roll if they have it set up that all the points get added to Presence but that doesn't equal to +Mind amount of successes. While Prime gets reduced from the successes. If we say a die has a 60% chance to be a success (because of crits and stuff) than Prime 5 would be around equal to have 8 extra dices on the roll (0.6*8 = 4.8 successes on average). Or did I miss something?

    I don't know where Euphoria and Zeal come from (I tried Crtl+F on all the 1E Books I have as PDF and couldn't find anything). Also if Supreme Augementation is used to raise Resolve and/or Composure to get more maximum Willpower, you would not be able to get +Mind amount of dice on the Psychic Spells.

    Psychic Assault and Sword are rolling on dicepool that gets reduced by opponents Resolve, which is the favoured resistance stat for Obrimos, so that more or less counters the +Mind bonus one can add to the spell, meaning you just roll a "normal" dicepool so it gets reduced to be just a standard spell. So the only advantage towards your normal level 3 attack spells would be that they are convert, but with counterspell prime you can still counterspell them anyway. (Not saying they aren't good but they aren't really balance breaking good spells)

    Psychic Domination is really strong but that's a Mind 5 spell, I'm okay with those being super powerful.

    On good spells: With Force 4 one can turn Sound or Light into Fire or Electricity and it lasts for the whole scene, which means in case of electricity that it's a "constant flow" which means one needs to make a strength roll to even get out of the effect, and you suffer 4-10 bashing damage per turn for Electricity (which can't be blocked) or 1-6 lethal damage from fire. And not only is that DoT (because once you are on fire you keep it until you do something against it) it can also be a AoE (meaning you don't actually have to perceive the target and only know the general area they are in and magic shield doesn't protect one from it as it only works on spells targeting one directly and normal armour doesn't protect against electricity), also can be combined with something like sound mastery that let's you create the sound and than transform it and as both use the same dice pool you only have the standard penalty from combined to worry about so if you get to Force 5 you can create Fire or lightning at a target and only have a 2 Dice penalty.

    And of course the most likely most broken spell "Imbue Item" because not only makes it so that you can prepare spells meaning you don't have to pay the mana cost at the moment, you can actually imbue multiple spells in the same item (yes it costs mana but who cares if you have high enough prime you can get that back no problem). And as there is no rule about how many imbued items one can have (only real limit seems to be how many spells one can have active which you can get around via combining spells) a Mage can use imbue item to cast multiple spells without the normal dice penalty for combined spells as they would have cast the spell in as a "Extended Cast" beforehand, not only that they could have multiple item imbued with the same spell and have them trigger on the same "gesture" that way it would be possible to cast a spell multiple times in the same turn. And in contrast to spell combination you can have multiple spells with the same effect on the same item. Meaning you can cast multiple spells that deal agg damage at the same time all dealing their damage, allowing you to one-shot almost anyone. It's completely bonkers. It also allows you to cast "Supernal Dispellation" as an "Extended Cast" (which would get us to the question again about how many success you can stack on an extended cast action). Or you create a weapon that cast a spell on hit.with a raised potency from Extended Cast so "Counterspelling" becomes a lot harder. Still not sure how that got through playtesting.
     
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  2. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END.

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    Okay, I think you're misreading something.

    Basic factors = 1 point of Potency, 1 target for single-target, largest target Size 20 or less, 1-yard radius or 5 cubic yards shaped for area-affecting, 1 turn for Transitory, 1 hour for Prolonged. Those are the baseline for an extended spell with a target number of 1.

    To cast an extended spell that does more than that, you add successes to the target number. So if I want a spell that has 15 Potency, affects a 1024-yard radius, and lasts a month, then I add either (14+10+18 = 42) or (14+5+4 = 23) successes to the basic 1 (the first number is if I'm using the standard factors for area and duration, the second is if I'm using the advanced factors that you get from having an extra dot of the Arcanum). Then I start rolling dice, accumulating successes, and when I reach that 43 or 24 successes, the spell goes off with 15 Potency, a 1024-yard radius, and a month duration.

    At no point do these factors depend on what I score in one particular roll (unless I get a dramatic failure at some point, in which case the spell fails). There is no concept of "the first roll that gets a success" involved. There is a concept of "extra successes scored above the target number via the last roll overshooting", but that only matters for whether it counts as an exceptional success and (with the unofficial errata) for checking whether Paradox successes cause the spell to fail.

    "Successes can be allocated to X", for an extended cast, means you add them to the target number.
    You missed something. Supreme Augmentation has a limit of +Mind dots per attribute. This is why I said it's an amazing buff (whereas going absolute RAW on Skill Mastery suggests it's still limited to +Mind total dots). You can see it in the third attainments of Perfected Adepts/Uncrowned Kings/Chrysalides; you get to boost multiple attributes by [Arcanum] at the same time because Supreme Honing/Supreme Augmentation are at the fourth Arcanum dot and third attainments are supposed to be fourth-dot spells.

    Also, Magic Shield is treated as armour, so it reduces dice pool (I seem to recall that 2e has armour reducing successes, but in 1e it reduces dice pool). It's already a big deal, but it'd be holy-shit if it were successes.

    As a side note, though as noted it's irrelevant here, the average successes per die go like this:

    No 10-again: 3/10
    10-again (default): 1/3
    9-again: 3/8
    8-again: 3/7
    Rote + no 10-again: 51/100
    Rote + 10-again: 16/27
    Rote + 9-again: 45/64
    Rote + 8-again: 6/7

    ("Rote", here, of course meaning the rote-action quality from the WoD corebook, not rote spells. This was a really dumb naming decision.)
    They're both from Seers of the Throne. I'm assuming Pentacle/apostate mages can cast them, whether or not the rotes are easily available, because Seers are normal mages who merely picked a different side (whereas Banishers explicitly have a nonstandard template; this is actually a terrible design decision because the Banishers book also says that being a Banisher is a deliberate and evil choice, but whatever).

    Euphoria = wound penalties reduced by X, +X to Stamina rolls to remain conscious, you can make Stamina rolls to remain conscious when your last box is lethal (X = successes). Mind 2 (3 to cast on others), Prolonged, 1 Mana, covert but subject to Disbelief if you stay up when your last box is lethal. Like I said, an amazing buff that amounts to "I don't go down until full agg".

    Zeal is less amazing. It defers Wisdom checks until the end of the spell (though you still have to make all of them, so it's not like Suppress Wisdom, Defer Conscience or Casual Brutality i.e. the Wisdom-cheating spells I mentioned earlier), and gives you +5 dice/+3 resistance for a Willpower instead of the normal +3/+2. Can only give the bonus (#successes) times. Mind 2 (3 on others), Prolonged, 1 Mana, covert.
    Magic Shield doesn't protect, but some of the mage-armour spells do (Forces/Life/Matter all mention that they protect against energy, and Spirit might, although Mind and Space seem to be SOL). If the Strength roll is ruled to apply (it's meant for breaking contact with a wire, not for sheet lightning, although I'd probably still apply it here since you're still trying to take deliberate action while being electrocuted), still not that bad (you only need one success). Had missed how potent Transform Energy is, so thanks for that, although the penalties for making it wide-area are an issue for instant-casting (particularly since you need decent Potency to do anything significant; this is also an issue with the combined-spell idea since you need high Potency on both and that means you need twice as many successes).

    EDIT: regarding fire, you need to be exposed to fire for more than one turn in order to catch on fire and keep taking damage. Since you can move your Speed per turn and still take an action, you need a really-substantial area (2 advanced factors or 3-4 standard factors) or a confined space in order to get lost action/man on fire.
    There's not a hard limit, but there is Spell Tolerance.
    What's going on with combined spells and Spell Tolerance is a bit tricky to decipher, but the best I can make of it is that a combined spell counts as 1 spell for the purposes of the Gnosis+3 limit (which is how many spells you can maintain at a time, regardless of whether they're affecting you or others) but as N spells for the purposes of the Stamina limit (which is Spell Tolerance i.e. how many spells you can have stacked on yourself, regardless of who cast them). Here are the quotes, see what you make of them.

    I know exactly how it got through playtesting; there are two contradictory rules (with two contradictory clarifications in sourcebooks!) and only one of them lets you autokill people with a Thunderbolt that's pre-defined at Potency 70.

    Specifically, there's this text from the Imbued Item Merit:
    Keys to the Supernal Tarot says that this only applies to imbued items taken at character creation; Tome of the Mysteries, meanwhile, writes up an item-creation example where creating an imbued item with Imbue Item still has the spell get rolled as Gnosis + Arcanum when it's activated.

    One presumes that they playtested under the not-very-impressive Merit/TotM rules, and not the WTF-hax spell-implied/KttST rules.

    Prepared spells with Time 2 actually have the same problem (without the alternative-not-insane-rules part), where you roll an extended spell and then shoot it at someone and their resistance/contested roll doesn't get applied to every roll of that extended spell the way it normally would (or, for that matter, applied at all, because it becomes an aimed spell), allowing you to autokill. The unofficial errata on that eventually amounted to "this is a mess, I don't know how to fix it". The best houserule-fix I can think of is that you have to preconfigure a set resistance/contested pool into the spell when preparing it and then if you use it on somebody with more resistance/contested pool than you rolled against, it doesn't work. If I were going full-blown houserules I'd also keep the penalties for hold time as penalties for extended-cast (instead of converting to +successes) and probably require +1 Arcanum dot, to somewhat balance prepare-and-confront against sympathy-nuke.

    Sorry if I missed something here, it took a while to write this.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2023
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  3. heralding_bubble

    heralding_bubble Liar and Hypocrite

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    do the dead sea scrolls come up anywhere in oWoD?
     
  4. gereh

    gereh I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Yeah, you are correct on those points, sorry it was a long day yesterday so I wasn't all that attentive when reading up on some of the stuff, my bad.

    That rule just plain stupid it's just asking someone to Extended Cast a spell to deal 12 Agg with Potence 30 on 5 targets and just one-shoot everyone. I guess there is a good reason it doesn't exist anymore.

    Honestly think the idea of having only the success on the first roll makes the most sense, you can get your whole dicepool to roll for successes without having to subtract anything for modifiers and it would put an reasonable upper limit for the amount you can get (and you still could get 10+ with a really good roll)

    Yeah it's defense subtracted from dicepool and armour reduces damage in 2E, haven't played any 1E in forever so got that confused.

    Ah yes I don't own any of the "order" books so that makes sense. And yes Seers spell should be available.

    Yeah that's correct. But once the fire or electricity is there on can use "Influence Fire" or "Influence Electricity" to move the effect around. Also there are force spells to stop someone from moving, or have the take damage when they move, so there is a nice synergy with the gravity and velocity spells here. Also fire starts spreading after one turn.

    Fun Fact: You create a "Conflagration" level Fire on five successes, which is one more than Inferno, but all other tables only go up to Inferno level. That said what you do is create a "Conflagration" size fire which is only 2 yards in diameter if you don't spend extra points on area... Don't ask me how that works.
     
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  5. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END.

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    In theory, yes. In practice, not so much, except for prepared spells (and to some extent indirect-targetting tricks). Because, well, unless somebody is willing to chill out in front of you for hundreds of turns while you are casting a murder spell, you need to use sympathetic casting, and there are a lot of ways to stack up penalties to sympathetic casting that directly targets you (Magic Shield giving -Prime as usual, Occultation's a 1-to-3-dot Merit that gives -dots to sympathetic casting, your resistance attribute that's potentially boosted by Mind or Life, and the sympathetic penalty itself which if they don't know your real name and don't have a piece of you is -8), as well as Space Ward (blocks sympathetic spells unless greater Potency, and you can cast it on people as well as areas) which can also be extended-cast and doesn't have those huge penalties.

    Tome of the Mysteries "clarified" (this is a lie; it's errata) that extended versions of Fraying/Unravelling/Unmaking effects need a separate spell with 1 more dot than usual. This means you need to have Forces 5, Mind 5 or Prime 5 for your Death Nuke spell (the Sound Mastery/Transform Energy thing you mentioned, Psychic Assault, or Celestial Fire respectively), or else be an archmaster. TotM also "clarified" that extended-action roll restrictions still apply i.e. you can't roll more times than your base dice pool (this prevents the whole "people casting for days straight" thing except at the lowest levels of Gnosis, but it does provide at least some sort of limit on how many successes you can rack up especially with sympathy penalties).

    So in practice the situation where you get lolfried by a Potency 30 extended spell, outside of specific cases where the sympathetic defences don't apply, looks like "I pissed off a master or archmaster, didn't take steps against him getting a piece of me and/or my name, and didn't invest in any of a large number of possible defences". In that case, well, you kind of let this happen. Sympathy-nuke is noted many times as a thing to worry about; heck, literally in the prologue to the corebook the POV mage gets directed to learn Occultation because a bad guy found out his name.

    Extended casting is, however, incredible for buff spells. This is why I blithely assumed earlier that any Prolonged buff spells you have access to will be up all of the time at "enough" Potency (at least, up to the Spell Tolerance limit); extended casting makes this reasonably easy (not quite "trivial" - improvised sometimes has issues with the max-rolls limit - but reasonably easy).
     
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  6. gereh

    gereh I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Here is the thing "Imbue Item" use the Extended Casting rules for the spells imbued into it
    So if you want one Nuke Spell just use it via Extended Casting "Imbue Item" (or use "Prepared Spell"). At this point the only thing keeping you back is the stamina limit as in how long you can keep casting. Ans as far as I'm aware the sympathetic penalties shouldn't apply here.

    Okay, so they noticed the problem and moved to fix it, somewhat. Still seems like someone with a reasonable big dicepool (and using imbue item or prepared spell to get around sympathethis casting penalties) should still be able to get a lot of successes.

    Also the Sound Mastery/Transfrom Energy isn't a Death Nuke just a fuckton of damage but a supernatural being coming for a fight has a chance to survive a round or two, it also is a Patterning/Weaving Combination so the 1-dot extra wouldn't apply (but you still need Force 5 to cast as a combi spell anyway)
     
  7. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END.

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    Yeah, this is where the thing we discussed earlier about "there are two sets of rules for imbued items" comes in. With the Merit/TotM rules you're still locked to rolling Gnosis + Arcanum on activation (and possibly less, if you have more dots than are required to cast), which means no Death Nuke.
    I mean, I counted it as Death Nuke when extended-cast because you could go nuts with the area (there are still some limits, because if you e.g. electrify everything within a mile radius then you get thousands of people rolling to Disbelieve and it gets cancelled, but you could fill someone's entire house with fire pretty easily).

    And yeah, the +1 dot for Fraying/Unravelling/Unmaking wouldn't apply, but it's still 5 dots (even if you do it as two separate spells, there's still the +1 for sympathy).

    Yes, I have stated multiple times now that prepared attack spells are very broken as written because they let you bypass all the things that normally balance extended casting.

    Might as well quote the unofficial errata (by which I mean Bill Bridges' forum posts):
    Now, I know you're going to note that what he gestures at there isn't enough to solve the Death Nuke problem without some additional tweaking; I agree. I gave some potential houserules that I think would keep it mostly in check without completely removing prepared spells as a thing worth doing. I'm not sure what else there is to say, unless you want to debate those houserules.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2023
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  8. Daddycool101

    Daddycool101 Versed in the lewd.

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    I've come across a reddit article some time ago, where a person said they're making fan splats for animatronics from five nights at Freddy's and the monster girls from monster girl encyclopaedia.

    There isn't any information from them about any updates, so I was thinking, why not make a monster girl wod ourselves.

    What do you guys think?

    Edit: Do we have a list of fan games set in WoD or using the system, like highlander, leviathan, etc?

    List of fan games I know of:

    Immortal (a new version of highlander)
    Leviathan
    Siren
    Atlantean
    Gargoyle
    Kamen rider
    Princess
    Genius
    Zombie
    Zombie (there was another version for CofD)
    Dragon
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2023
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  9. Gaemnomut

    Gaemnomut Well worn.

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    I'm currently brainstorming for the worldbuilding of a custom city in the wod setting to set a sanbox game in, and since I only ever played vtmb I wanted to ask if you all might want to help me with some of the setting elements that don't really feature much in the game.

    For example, the clan ravnos. What exactly is their clan curse? And would it be plauable that some old ravnos kindred is living in a city for hundreds of years given their apparent tendancy to travel?
     
  10. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    In old editions it was compulsive behaviors

    ignore new lore because it is now “staying in one place too long makes you explode like one of Jaghatai’s boys vibrating in place”

    This compulsive behavior could be good or bad but the thing was that they couldn’t help but do it and the severity varied

    so yeah you could have a Ravnos staying in one city with a compulsion related to it
     
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  11. Gaemnomut

    Gaemnomut Well worn.

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    Interesting, thanks. I'll need to think about that, so its something interesting.
     
  12. Ragura

    Ragura Versed in the lewd.

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  13. Daddycool101

    Daddycool101 Versed in the lewd.

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  14. Daddycool101

    Daddycool101 Versed in the lewd.

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    I had an idea for inserting a mokole SI in danmachi (probably as a jumpchain thing where his powers (gifts, rites, etc;) still work.
    I don't have the books, what I know if from the wiki and forums, but becoming a dino dragon sounds cool.

    I know that rage helps in healing and gnosis (mnesis?) helps in powering spirit powers (shifting sideways, using fetishes, gifts, etc)

    Rpg sheet mechanics probably won't translate one to one, so there can be some leeway for making the fic more interesting.
     
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  15. Ragura

    Ragura Versed in the lewd.

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    Rage can also be spent to gain extra actions and to power some gifts. But, if you go with RPG mechanics, you cannot use Rage and Gnosis in the same turn.
    Mnensis is essentially postcognition (looking into the past) but it works by tapping into the collective memory of the mokole - so it would only work on worlds they have visited (then again, by traveling far enough into the Umbra you can have them end up anywhere) - and is also how they gain new traits for their dino form
     
  16. Triumvirate_PHO

    Triumvirate_PHO I, Triumvirate_PHO, just want a lewd life

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    Which version of VTM is best when it comes to Disciplines, V20 or V5?
     
  17. gereh

    gereh I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Depends on what you mean by "best". We talking power and or variety V20 is better (by far) if we talk about which one has less stuff that breaks the game it's V5 (simply because there is less stuff), but if you mean "balanced" you probably should look at VTR instead of VTM.
     
  18. Daddycool101

    Daddycool101 Versed in the lewd.

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    Thanks
     
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  19. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    Do you mean mechanically or in lore?

    because the mechanics of V5 is “we give multiple options for powers at levels but you need to buy the next level dot to get one on the same level since you can only have one and you have a limit of five dots while we keep printing more material which adds more powers in the same discipline”

    V20 has better disciplines generally while v5 gives actual powers for ones like celerity and potence while also over complicating it

    Requim adds more options though
     
  20. Daddycool101

    Daddycool101 Versed in the lewd.

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    Anyone interested in helping with a fan dlc for vampire the Masquerade waifu cyoa?

    I took permission from the original maker and he was ok with it.

    I'm looking for lasombra, settite, assamite (banu haqim), cappadocian (or Giovanni) waifus.

    Any bloodline waifus are welcome too.
     
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  21. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    Are you looking for canon characters or just images to use?
     
  22. Daddycool101

    Daddycool101 Versed in the lewd.

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    Not canon characters, but waifu from those clans who're kind of stereotypical or quintessential of the clans.

    Like seeing her and going, "yeah, this is probably how an anime waifu version of this clan character would be."

    I think you might get a better idea of what I'm looking for my seeing the original cyoa.

    https://forum.questionablequesting.com/posts/4988700
     
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  23. gereh

    gereh I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    The what? ... Looked it up and I'm unsure why those are all new vamps, now older generation ones, guess they wanted high humanity once.

    If existing vamps are cool (as everyone on the list is a new character I'm not sure about that): Julia from Shadow of New York, has to be the Lasombra one, she is a new enough vamp to fall into the same categories as the rest.

    If existing once aren't cool I guess just make a new one that is almost exactly like her.
     
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  24. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    I remember like 2 or 3 different ones so I am unsure
     
  25. gereh

    gereh I trust you know where the happy button is?

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  26. Ragura

    Ragura Versed in the lewd.

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    Lasombra cat burglar (or Gangrel if you want a literal cat)

    Nosferatu vigilante

    Antitribu Venture paladin (knight in shining power armor)

    Samedi voodoo princess (with a perk that makes her look alive enough)

    Malkavian ufologist

    Tzimisce mad scientist (it involves a lot of probing)
     
  27. shadowdice

    shadowdice Connoisseur.

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    Fiamma Putanesca (Giovanni bloodline)
    [​IMG]
    Fortitude 2 Necromancy 1

    Predator Type Extortionist

    Will bully you

    Will buy you expensive designer brand clothes

    Has Drugs

    Probably will make you wear the clothes of dead people so she can have ghosts *protect* you

    Probably has incestuous sisters that she has to beat up

    Cooks great Pasta

    The meatballs might be made out of people

    Her name is also a pasta dish, is this Jojo Golden Wind?

    *semishitpost*
     
  28. gereh

    gereh I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Name Pending - Lasombra
    Obtenebration 3, Potence 1

    Made you go through some kind of test before you started dating.

    While she herself isn't going anymore, her parents were going to church every sundays, so everyone in there still no knows her and is on good terms with her.

    Wears only black designer clothes.

    Has "Daddy Issues".

    As she doesn't have a smartphone or social media, everyone that wants something from her is texting you, so you can inform her.

    Seems cold while you are in public but secretly adores you.

    Should she ever witness that someone hurt you, she will go out of her way to utterly destroy them and everything they love.

    Likes to use her shadow powers for Bondage play.
     
    Daddycool101 and shadowdice like this.
  29. Daddycool101

    Daddycool101 Versed in the lewd.

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    Thanks.
    I can imagine her planning a home cooked dinner date with you, but ends up forgetting about it. Hence, using the stuff at hand and saying it's made of pork.

    And she might be a plot hook for wraiths and ghosty folk.

    Thanks, I was imagining a lasombra to be kinda like the character from the text game.
    A person trying to rise up in the political structure but adores you, you're probably her secretary/assistant.
    She pretends you're just a useful humie, but protects you from other vampires in her own way.
     
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  30. AlphaWolf112480

    AlphaWolf112480 Versed in the lewd.

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    Imabot and Ragura like this.
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