On a Pale Horse (Umamusume/Youjo Senki)

[Kukulan]

I imagine Shirogane will likely have something on her racing outfit that references the Winged Hussars. It would be difficult for an Uma not to associate Poland with them. Also Shirogane is probably a descendant of the Hussars.

Shirogane might actually be able to challenge Taiki Shuttle's quick draw champion title. Taiki would still win at speed shooting with a revolver though.

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I just had a funny thought of Taiki Shuttle acting like Revolver Ocelot and doing a bunch of revolver tricks.

 

[BlueCladOne]

The Three Goddesses as shown at least in the game are treated a lot like normal religious ones - there's some vague feelings and motivations, but many Umas dismiss the idea that anything supernatural actually happened.

The "I'll bless you, but will leave your belief up to faith" not "SMITE" type that physically come down there to solve/cause problems.

Plus, to me, the fact that Tracen is unusual and the director considered kind of crazy means that this might be a modern development.

At the very least, the "URA Finale" - the ambitious idea of running all styles of race so any Uma could shine, implies that there were at least issues about umas having the wrong aptitudes, and so never gaining the heights of preatige in racing that Aikawa thought they should.

Note that it was not a supernatural thing that improved the lives of umas, but a human (or if fans are right, an uma pretending to be one, which only reinforces the idea of "why is that needed?")

 

[mauveine]

Note that it was not a supernatural thing that improved the lives of umas, but a human (or if fans are right, an uma pretending to be one, which only reinforces the idea of "why is that needed?")

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Ah so where do 'we' stand on the notion of Yayoi Akikawa and Tazuna Hayakawa being umas themselves. Those dresses could conceal tails. And they're both wearing hats that could conceal ears. It's not completely crazy

 

[durante]

Dubious at best because while Akiawa hasn't shown anything suspicious other then just her general features, Tazuna on the other hand is definitely suspicious considering she was able to catch up to Taki shuttle of people, who by everyone is factually known as the fastest sprinter in Tracen and Tazuna easily caught up to her.

Another supernatural thing you can probably take from all of this is that humans have evolved to be tougher than our humans considering Spica trainer regularly gets kicked because he can't stop touching Uma Musume's legs. Bro survived a full powered kick from special week with barely a dent.

So my conclusion is that while Uma musume are physically stronger than their and our humans, their Humans are just built more sturdy.

Side note: the Chinese and Japanese for whatever reason decided that umas kidnapping their trainers and yellow umas and locking them in basement for snu snu is the norm for Uma fics.

 

[BlueCladOne]

Ah so where do 'we' stand on the notion of Yayoi Akikawa and Tazuna Hayakawa being umas themselves. Those dresses could conceal tails. And they're both wearing hats that could conceal ears. It's not completely crazy

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I personally believe both are umas myself. Especially Tazuna - her support card in game has very suspicious dialogue when she's off-guard that implies she's a retired racer herself.

 

[Lyrista]

Akiawa and Tazuna are based on real horses like the other Umas but their owners didn't give permission for them to be used so they're "human" but they leave sneaky little nods like how where Tazuna stands on the daily races screen with the location of the Uma mural behind Tazuna making it look like she has horse ears.

Akiawa has her cat always riding her hat which serves the same purpose

 

[durante]

If I had a genie I would wish for Cygames to have permission from all the owners, even from like the 18 hundreds. I want to see Eclipse as a Uma musume damn it

 

[averagejoe32]

Wow, she's skittish around loud bangs, very horse like behavior.

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I just thought that was left over trauma from her life as a soldier. She didn't seem to have any trouble with traffic of any sort at the very least.

 

[```]

I mean, if no world wars, or wars in general don't happen, then the world is unrecognizable to our own, and from my understanding the Umamusume world has roughly the same history as ours. I would imagine that the wars we remember go roughly as they did normally but instead of horses being used as beasts of burden, we have umas doing that and acting as regular soldiers too. Like, a crew of umas pulling artillery pieces, then loading and firing them themselves rather than involving regular humans.

Hell, Shiro's family history on her mother's side is that plenty of Polish umas fought and died for Poland, and were presumably willing and proud to do so.

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I agree that they definitely share mostly the same timeline and such, but Fine Motion was literally a princess of the Irish Royal Family. Was because Cygames changed that because it would be too annoying to address that difference in history. Generally speaking, the goddess would bend the dumbasses over their knees if they tried having Uma participate in wars.

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Rather than a history of uma oppression, it's more likely there's a history of uma oppressors. /s

A cadre of talented knights in full harness and terrible swift sword arms could scythe through practically any number of motley peasantry. Figure something like umamusume into the equation and the results get even more lopsided.

For most of history more capital intensive forms had disproportionate impact on battlefield outcomes, which would allow relatively small high coordination mannerbunds to militarily dominate much larger swathes of more generally uncoordinated folk, and thus then transition into a ruling class. Polities that were capable of producing supplies of well crafted arms and armour, supplies of well bred horses, supplies of castles and other fortifications, and supplies of well trained worthy fighters themselves, were the dominant forces for millenia; a dynamic which only really changed when the personal firearm was innovated, and mass conscription then became the dominant method of battlefield dominance, with attendant transformation of political trends to reflect (and then changed again when the high explosive fragmentation shell was innovated, but that's a further digression).

In short, it was probably the historical norm for honses to be highly privileged in past societies, if not outright nobility themselves.

 

[The Unicorn]

Rather than a history of uma oppression, it's more likely there's a history of uma oppressors. /s

A cadre of talented knights in full harness and terrible swift sword arms could scythe through practically any number of motley peasantry. Figure something like umamusume into the equation and the results get even more lopsided.

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This is wrong, or at least extremely misleading.
While it's true that a group of well trained and equiped warriors can easily (especially if they're disciplined and trained in fighting together) crush a rabble of poorly trained and equipped rabble, even if greatly outnumbered. What is not true is that them riding horses had anything to do with that.
When a group of poorly trained or disciplined horsemen run into a group of well trained and disciplined infantry the result tends to be a bunch of dead or captured horsemen (and a lot of dead horses). We see examples of this from the Greek Phalanx to the early modern pike formations. This is even true when the horsemen are well armed and armored and the infantry is not (see the dutch and Swiss fights against the Spanish), so while Ume could be oppressors, they could also easily be oppressed, and given the very small numbers of them I think the later is more likely.

Also, keep in mind that Ume lack the two biggest advantages a mounted lancer had in combat over infantry - altitude and a partner to help them.

 

[Introverted]

Also, keep in mind that Ume lack the two biggest advantages a mounted lancer had in combat over infantry - altitude and a partner to help them.

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They won't need that given their sheer physical advantage over normal people.

 

[durante]

[QUOTE="```, post: 11577209, member:

In short, it was probably the historical norm for honses to be highly privileged in past societies, if not outright nobility themselves.
[/QUOTE]

We do have information on said Royal horses so I can see that. We have Eclipse who by the inuniverse must have been part of the British Royal Family. Same said with other famous horse breeds.

Honestly what would be funnier is if something random as Sunday silence being a manwhore because of how many kids he had in our world

 

[MemeKing]

I have a question, are there any Uma men or are they all women? If they are all women then how would Uma's perpetuate themselves as a distinct population? they would all be half-human or fully human with some Uma genes.

 

[Lyrista]

Umas are all female. It's implied in Universe they can breed with humans without issue

 

[```]

This is wrong, or at least extremely misleading.
While it's true that a group of well trained and equiped warriors can easily (especially if they're disciplined and trained in fighting together) crush a rabble of poorly trained and equipped rabble, even if greatly outnumbered. What is not true is that them riding horses had anything to do with that.
When a group of poorly trained or disciplined horsemen run into a group of well trained and disciplined infantry the result tends to be a bunch of dead or captured horsemen (and a lot of dead horses). We see examples of this from the Greek Phalanx to the early modern pike formations. This is even true when the horsemen are well armed and armored and the infantry is not (see the dutch and Swiss fights against the Spanish), so while Ume could be oppressors, they could also easily be oppressed, and given the very small numbers of them I think the later is more likely.

Also, keep in mind that Ume lack the two biggest advantages a mounted lancer had in combat over infantry - altitude and a partner to help them.

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Full harness refers to armor, not horses. It wasn't uncommon for men-at-arms to fight dismounted against pike formations since it is somewhat unwieldy against mansized targets, especially when wearing plate the tips can't find any purchase in, which is why formations also tended to be interspersed with men wielding zweihanders or halberds or other longarms to deal with other men breaking through the thicket. Make those man-sized targets umamusume and again it becomes even more of a wrecking ball. We're talking levels of strength, speed, operational mobility, and possible equipment that can't be matched, all in one unit. The only real play is having more umas of your own.

At the end of the day, power talks. If people hip to the superhumans beat people who aren't, then hipness to the superhumans becomes the norm.

 

[The Unicorn]

They won't need that given their sheer physical advantage over normal people.

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A Lancer on his horse has a lot of those same advantages, and as noted will end up dead very quickly against trained and disciplined troops

which is why formations also tended to be interspersed with men wielding zweihanders or halberds or other longarms to deal with other men breaking through the thicket.

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There was a very brief period of that between when armor evolved to the point that worked and when missile weapons evolved to the point they could deal with most armor a man on foot could handle.

Make those man-sized targets umamusume and again it becomes even more of a wrecking ball

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Only if you have enough of them that they can't be dealt with at range, and their well trained enough that they'll actually be effective, and again this was only a fairly brief historical period

Again not saying Ume can't be oppressors, just that it wouldn't be as easy or simple as some people seem to think.

 

[YetAnotherLurker]

Bear in mind that historical armor had to take into account the weight its user can carry and fight in. Give said user superhuman strength and speed and they'll be able to wear and fight in significantly heavier armor without impairing mobility.

 

[Darkwood]

A Lancer on his horse has a lot of those same advantages, and as noted will end up dead very quickly against trained and disciplined troops

There was a very brief period of that between when armor evolved to the point that worked and when missile weapons evolved to the point they could deal with most armor a man on foot could handle.
Only if you have enough of them that they can't be dealt with at range, and their well trained enough that they'll actually be effective, and again this was only a fairly brief historical period

Again not saying Ume can't be oppressors, just that it wouldn't be as easy or simple as some people seem to think.

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Whilst this is true on a battlefield, just because historically there were times where the balance of power swung away from cavalry/other noble warriors, they generally did not mean that the nobles were suddenly not in power and running the show. I think it would be the same for uma in universe. They are just way stronger in most physical metrics, and are more able to take up roles that regular humans would than an actual horse could ever hope to be.
Unless it is written into the lore at some point that uma were not a part of the ruling class, it would be safe to assume that they made a large part of it.

 

[The Unicorn]

Whilst this is true on a battlefield, just because historically there were times where the balance of power swung away from cavalry/other noble warriors, they generally did not mean that the nobles were suddenly not in power and running the show.

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Very true, but again the point is those nobles were running the show because they got a group of people together to train and fight, not because they could ride a horse.

The advantages an Ume has might let them become nobles, but even with those advantages it's highly unlikely.

 

[Darkwood]

Very true, but again the point is those nobles were running the show because they got a group of people together to train and fight, not because they could ride a horse.

The advantages an Ume has might let them become nobles, but even with those advantages it's highly unlikely.

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I think you are getting the order the wrong way around there, generally the one who could get people together to train and fight was already a noble, even if not in name. I'd argue that a superhuman (effectively what uma are) is a pretty good candidate to for being in a prominent position regardless of what stage of societal development. And I am by no means saying that all uma were nobility, just that I think it would be highly likely that the amount of nobles that were uma would be way higher than the general population

 

[Jubjub3000]

I'd argue that a superhuman

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Superhuman who spook easily

 

[```]

A Lancer on his horse has a lot of those same advantages, and as noted will end up dead very quickly against trained and disciplined troops

There was a very brief period of that between when armor evolved to the point that worked and when missile weapons evolved to the point they could deal with most armor a man on foot could handle.
Only if you have enough of them that they can't be dealt with at range, and their well trained enough that they'll actually be effective, and again this was only a fairly brief historical period

Again not saying Ume can't be oppressors, just that it wouldn't be as easy or simple as some people seem to think.

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There's a reason I didn't specify whether the men-at-arms were mounted or dismounted on the sentence you quoted, because it depends on the situation. Sorry if this is a difficult topic to come to grips with.

It should also be pointed out that effective pike formations don't grow on trees either; the levels of human capital and equipment necessary to use such tactics effectively fairly rival what is needed to produce effective knights as well, but on a larger scale, which is why they tended to only really be a province of powerful states like the macedonians or later swiss cantons. For people with less resources to throw around, it was often ironically more cost effective in most cases to invest in more 'concentrated' cadres of fighters (who were usually compensated through grants of land), which was more flexible and scalable with respect to numbers, hence the emergence of knightly classes.

In any case, more strength can mean more powerful missile weapons AND also stronger armour and also more besides. The same realities which would favor armies with smaller numbers of higher quality better equipped troops against an army with larger numbers but poorer equipment and lower troop quality are exacerbated even moreso. Which ever way you slice it, having quirky anime honses is just an massive advantage in every wartime situation you can possibly think of over the past 10,000 years.

 

[durante]

I have a question, are there any Uma men or are they all women? If they are all women then how would Uma's perpetuate themselves as a distinct population? they would all be half-human or fully human with some Uma genes.

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Uma Musumes are all females and their genes overwrite whatever female gene there is.

A male x Uma Will result in either a human male or female uma. While human male x human female will have a human female but there is a extremely low chance that the child will be born an Uma musume.

Shirogane is that low percent. Although we don't have any in game Uma musume who has a human mom last i remembered.

A Lancer on his horse has a lot of those same advantages, and as noted will end up dead very quickly against trained and disciplined troops

There was a very brief period of that between when armor evolved to the point that worked and when missile weapons evolved to the point they could deal with most armor a man on foot could handle.
Only if you have enough of them that they can't be dealt with at range, and their well trained enough that they'll actually be effective, and again this was only a fairly brief historical period

Again not saying Ume can't be oppressors, just that it wouldn't be as easy or simple as some people seem to think.

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Considering their nature, uma musume being oppressors sounds so weird to hear. They are more creatures of emotions similar to their irl selves, kind or very temperamental.

Also we would be so fucked if they could use Zones for wars and such.

 

[The Unicorn]

I think you are getting the order the wrong way around there, generally the one who could get people together to train and fight was already a noble, even if not in name.

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Nope.
The way one became a noble is generally by getting together a crew who could fight and either getting organized and trained well enough to keep the other gang's away or serving some one else well enough they felt like rewarding you.

I'd argue that a superhuman (effectively what uma are) is a pretty good candidate to for being in a prominent position regardless of what stage of societal development.

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In the sense that if they are well trained and equipped they have a pretty good chance of pulling it off? Sure. Random Ume are likely to pull it off? No
In the sense that a random Ume is much more likely than a random human to be a noble? Possibly. In the sense that a majority or even a large minority of
ume are nobles? No.

And I am by no means saying that all uma were nobility, just that I think it would be highly likely that the amount of nobles that were uma would be way higher than the general population

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No argument with that, just that they'd pretty much never be independent nobles.

Superhuman who spook easily

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And generally have the wrong instincts for fighting.

There's a reason I didn't specify whether the men-at-arms were mounted or dismounted on the sentence you quoted, because it depends on the situation. Sorry if this is a difficult topic to come to grips with.

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What's difficult to grasp is why you feel the need to be rude.

Considering their nature, uma musume being oppressors sounds so weird to hear. They are more creatures of emotions similar to their irl selves, kind or very temperamental.

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Yup, which is why I see them as much more likely to end up as followers than the leaders. Sometimes the leaders will treat them well and may even make them nobles or equivalent, other times not. but they'll be followers not leaders nearly all the time.

 

[```]

I have a question, are there any Uma men or are they all women? If they are all women then how would Uma's perpetuate themselves as a distinct population? they would all be half-human or fully human with some Uma genes.

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It's magic. When a man and a woman love each other very much... sometimes a horsegirl is reincarnated into horsegirl valhalla. The mother doesn't even need to be an uma herself.

It's probably not completely random - ie, you as an outside observer can note that honses born in a certain place here are also born in those places as horsegirls, amongst other factors - and predictable associations are probably a subject of in-universe study, but that's the basic gist.

Considering their nature, uma musume being oppressors sounds so weird to hear. They are more creatures of emotions similar to their irl selves, kind or very temperamental.

Also we would be so fucked if they could use Zones for wars and such.

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I don't think being powerful also automatically means you're a bad guy (just the opposite in fact in most cases depending on what definitions of power you are talking about), so that line was mostly a tongue-in-cheek riff on how there are lots of unconscious french continentals in popular discourse even if they've never read a page of Foucault.

 

[durante]

I don't think being powerful also automatically means you're a bad guy (just the opposite in fact in most cases depending on what definitions of power you are talking about), so that line was mostly a tongue-in-cheek riff on how there are lots of unconscious french continentals in popular discourse even if they've never read a page of Foucault.

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I'm not calling them evil. Its just that the thought of them BEING evil sounds so wrong to me considering what I have read. You can have harsh mothers, annoyed and iterated uma musume true, but outright evil? I find it difficult to believe but we just haven't gotten that case so eh.

Considering someone like King Halo's mom but you need to also understand that the mom is meant to be Dancing Brave of all horses so the harshness is understandable, even if I or others don't like it

As for power: you mean [Zone] or just something like political power?

 

[IbnAurum]

Someone like T.M. Opera O, I could see her being a chief or noble or king back then, earning acclaim like Bobby Baratheon as she decimates enemies and glugs mead. Rice Shower? Ngl I'm afraid she'll fall in with the wrong sorts or get enslaved or smth, tho I guess it depends on the society of the time.

 

[BlastHardcheese]

Rather than a history of uma oppression, it's more likely there's a history of uma oppressors. /s

A cadre of talented knights in full harness and terrible swift sword arms could scythe through practically any number of motley peasantry. Figure something like umamusume into the equation and the results get even more lopsided.

For most of history more capital intensive forms had disproportionate impact on battlefield outcomes, which would allow relatively small high coordination mannerbunds to militarily dominate much larger swathes of more generally uncoordinated folk, and thus then transition into a ruling class. Polities that were capable of producing supplies of well crafted arms and armour, supplies of well bred horses, supplies of castles and other fortifications, and supplies of well trained worthy fighters themselves, were the dominant forces for millenia; a dynamic which only really changed when the personal firearm was innovated, and mass conscription then became the dominant method of battlefield dominance, with attendant transformation of political trends to reflect (and then changed again when the high explosive fragmentation shell was innovated, but that's a further digression).

In short, it was probably the historical norm for honses to be highly privileged in past societies, if not outright nobility themselves.

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And there we have the possibility explanation as to why Shirogane doesn't have any Polish uma cousins that isn't just the Soviets being Soviets.

 

[```]

As for power: you mean [Zone] or just something like political power?

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Regarding that passage it's pretty much all the above and more besides really; basically all that which precipitates the distinction of states of affairs with higher or lower ontological priorities; or that which participates in that with higher ontological inevitability; and distinction between agents thereof.