(Partially) fixing the tag system

[Thatonesungod]

{noncon - non-con} non-con

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Someone else already mentioned this but there are several more tags in this sphere, such as Non con, and non-consensual

 

[ndh]

Merge the raildex/toaru tags I'm a new member to that fandom and its annoying to look through all the different names in that group.

 

[LurkingInTheDeceit]

FYI, if multiple people have objected to a potential merger already, you don't need to be worried that I'm gonna push it through anyway. The point of this exercise is to merge all the low-hanging fruit, so controversial mergers just won't happen. Whether something is a slur isn't really the topic of this thread.

Relatedly, this is a good faith collaborative project, and this-

Edit: my cunning plan of getting vocal transphobes to spew dogwhistles at me so I can block them worked! Yippie!

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I was just shitstirring with a paragraph of actual substance edited in later so that I could block the vocal transphobes and mispgynists who used specific dogwhistles to deny any equivalence! ^w^

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-is not at all dealing with others in good faith. I'll leave it to another mod to deal with you, but, as a general notice to the thread, please don't do this kind of thing.

 

[Sam I Am]

also what do people think.about combining "lesbian" and "yuri" tags? I don't see too much difference between the 2 tags based on how they are used in practice.

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They are both basically the same thing, from what I've seen. Yuri is just the japanese term for lesbian/lesbian romance, as I understand it from context clues. Unless there's like a thing I missed, that's what I've gathered from online yuri shippers and stuff.

It's the same with with Yaoi, as Yaoi seems to be gay/gay romance.

It may be a good idea to blanket those tags under Gay/Yaoi and Lesbian/Yuri, respectively.

 

[NotInventedHere]

"Trap" I have seen used to maliciously describe people who crossdress/otherwise appear feminine with the intention of tricking/deceiving other people about their actual/preferred gender identity.

Admittedly, this is mostly by "straight" guys that got pissed when they realized they got all horny for another guy and that they aren't as rigidly straight as they thought, but that doesn't stop people from using it to decide it was done maliciously against them.

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The entire original ""joke""" of "trap" was 'haha lol you thought that was a girl but it's a guy! lololol you like a guy you're gay now! (Which we all implicitly understand is an inherently negative thing because homophobia is the entire point of the ""joke"")'. It's always just been homophobia (and transphobia by way of that).

 

[Deathknight134]

Well, unless there's a distinct reason to keep them, it seems wise to merge anything about "femboy" or "trap" (both slurs in this day and age) into transfem protagonist.

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I feel like "transfem protagonist" would mean something completely different and would confuse others, giving them the wrong idea.
So I will have to heavily disagree with this suggestion as it gives people the wrong idea and may turn some people away from a story entirely. Take me for example, I avoid anything trans, but don't have anything against femboy or trap even if itsn't my cup of tea. It being called "transfem protagonist" would make me think "ah, this is that trans bullshit again" and just immediately nope the fuck out and hit ignore on the author probably, which hurts a story as it can turn away readers who want nothing to do with that kind of stuff, not realizing it'd be a catch-all for femboy or traps.

So I would recommend either leaving the "femboy" and "trap" tags alone, or name it something else that doesn't give the completely wrong idea.

Edit: Caught up. Just saw that he was purposely trying to shitstir people into reacting negatively. Literally fuck that guy.

Edit 2:

Genderbending protagonist may as well be merged into trans protagonist. No point splitting hairs, there.

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I just noticed this too..dude was not being subtle. They are so disingenuous... Why are they like this?

 

[Iridesce]

[

They are both basically the same thing, from what I've seen. Yuri is just the japanese term for lesbian/lesbian romance, as I understand it from context clues. Unless there's like a thing I missed, that's what I've gathered from online yuri shippers and stuff.

It's the same with with Yaoi, as Yaoi seems to be gay/gay romance.

It may be a good idea to blanket those tags under Gay/Yaoi and Lesbian/Yuri, respectively.

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I think they are basically the same thing, but there might be certain connotations? Idk, I'd be equally likely to read a story tagged Yuri or lesbian but I'd come in with different expectations.

 

[spktr alpha]

I know it annoys me having to search through both a settings normal tag and its au tags at times to find all of the fics associated with a specific setting.

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I think having 'AU' as a tag by it's lonesome would work. So someone who wants RWBY AU can just add 'RWBY' and 'AU' as two separate tags while someone who just wants any and all RWBY stuff can just put 'RWBY'.

 

[manatherindrell]

There's a few different Raildex tags

 

[Sinker_91]

How many different tags are there to indicate snippets?

There are also various tags meant for crack fics, bestiality, humanity fuck yeah, alternate universe (especially when its just "setting au" which should probably be split into a setting and an au tag), there are a bunch of tags relating to and simply being pokemon settings, etc.

This is off rip as im a little busy atm but thought i should mention it

 

[Borland30]

I don't think these should be folded into the base futa tag. Well, maybe 'girl penis', but the others are describing the genders involved in sex (and who's doing the penetrating, when it comes to 'futa on male'), rather than futanari's less specific 'there's a futa in this'.

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Well, maybe... I'm not exactly knowledgeable on this topic. Then if technically possible and not too hard to do generic futanari tag should be automatically (retroactively and otherwise) added to all of those without it.
It's just I exclude this generic tag usually, and still see fics with it in search results. Annoying.

 

[Salraic238]

[

I think they are basically the same thing, but there might be certain connotations? Idk, I'd be equally likely to read a story tagged Yuri or lesbian but I'd come in with different expectations.

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Could you explain? The only connotation I get from "yuri" that I don't get from "lesbian" is that the source material is anime or otherwise East Asian animated or graphic art.

 

[Slickji]

I'd say don't worry too much about fusing tags that mean the same thing for niche concepts, QQ is far from the only site where it's next impossible to find a complete list of only the stories about say "fem sasuke" easily.

niche concepts that are popular enough to get 20 or so stories will always be hard to search for no matter what the site designer does.

 

[Ayashi]

I think having 'AU' as a tag by it's lonesome would work. So someone who wants RWBY AU can just add 'RWBY' and 'AU' as two separate tags while someone who just wants any and all RWBY stuff can just put 'RWBY'.

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can we search for multiple separate tags?
I only ever use the tag system by clicking on the tags themselves.

 

[Salraic238]

can we search for multiple separate tags?
I only ever use the tag system by clicking on the tags themselves.

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Yes you can by using the filter system instead

 

[NumberSix]

After using AO3 for years just hearing the word tegs makes me will my eyes.
And recently somebody was trying to lobby for this ace to use more tags to be more like AO3.
I hope this place doesn't fall into over tagging.

 

[Sam I Am]

[

I think they are basically the same thing, but there might be certain connotations? Idk, I'd be equally likely to read a story tagged Yuri or lesbian but I'd come in with different expectations.

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I don't think there'd be any connotations, honestly. In my mind, and from all that I've seen, lesbian/yuri and gay/yaoi function exactly the same in most everything. It really only matters in where the site you're on is based in, or what it deals in.

E621 = Gay/Lesbian
Danbooru = Yuri/Yaoi
Furaffinity = Gay/Lesbian
Gelbooru = Yuri/Yaoi
R34 = Gay/Yaoi, Lesbian/Yuri

It's just western and eastern words which refer to the same thing, as I'm understanding of it.

Though, maybe the connotations are that if the fic has yuri, it's about an anime or something like that, and if it has the lesbian tag, it's about a western media, and vice-versa? I don't know, myself.

After using AO3 for years just hearing the word tegs makes me will my eyes.
And recently somebody was trying to lobby for this ace to use more tags to be more like AO3.
I hope this place doesn't fall into over tagging.

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Sexy Times with Wangxian showed how bad over-tagging can get.

 

[Borland30]

also what do people think.about combining "lesbian" and "yuri" tags? I don't see too much difference between the 2 tags based on how they are used in practice.

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Good idea. But which one of those should be turned into other?.. I would go with yuri, imo.

And merge femslash tag into it too. Just four fics without the other two, but still...

 

[Have a Little Feith]

I think you should also give the opportunity for a thread creator to mark a tag as flavor text/a joke. Basically it'd make the tag useless for searching and if its a new tag it wouldnt create a new tag but it'd still appear like a normal tag.

also what do people think.about combining "lesbian" and "yuri" tags? I don't see too much difference between the 2 tags based on how they are used in practice.

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I think they have their own places. Yuri can be used to describe a "universal sexual alignment", while Lesbian is just for a singular person, generally. Same with Yaoi and Gay. Also, let's not forget the other usage those two sexual orientation tags have of "happy" and "from the Greek Isle of Lesbos". Queer also just used to mean "weird". I've seen (an) author(s) use "gay protagonist" and add "as in really happy". Edit: "yaoi", "BL", "boy's love" and "shounen ai" can be merged, if there are any such tags, same with "yuri", "GL", "Girl's love" and "Shoujo Ai".

 

[R.A.G.]

edgerunner
edgerunners
cyberpunk edgerunners
cyberpunk edgerunner and 2077 both
cyberpunk edgerunners au*
cyberpunk au*

*honestly, any tag with a freestanding 'au' in it should just be deleted. They're clutter already covered by using both a 'settingname' and an AU tag.

 

[FuzzyZergling]

Some of the Pokémon tags can probably be merged – definitely Pokemon with Pokémon, heh.

 

[Iridesce]

Could you explain? The only connotation I get from "yuri" that I don't get from "lesbian" is that the source material is anime or otherwise East Asian animated or graphic art.

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Explanation time. This is just the basics. The Yuri community is a linked but distinct community from the lesbian or femslash community. They have their own related tropes, expectations, and media they are generally applied to. Western media vs anime generally.

Yuri has a higher focus on the cuteness and emotional pacing of the relationship for example. It also has Class-S which is the really close relationship a lot of Japanese girls have in there early teens that's often seen in anime. This can just be them being lesbian, but is also often just a reflection of a real life cultural phenomena.

Some of the trope differences would be things like the cool senpai and kouhai dynamic seen in many Yuri stories, focuses on school girls, Innocence first love, and focuses on the internal growth of the characters. Think magical girls.

Meanwhile the lesbian or femslash community in the sense of stories has a focus on tropes like enemies to lovers, hurt/comfort, a grumpy character and happy character pairing, and a focus on trauma. Think A03 stories.

 

[Bulledar]

So, complaints about the tag system are a recurring topic on QQ. This is sometimes just an issue of different site cultures, but other times it's non-controversially fixable.

Tags on QQ have a few uses, including setting expectations for the thread, aiding search, and making jokes. We don't want to sacrifice either of the other two (or any other unlisted uses) in service of optimising search results, nor do we want to implement any kind of enforced tagging (for reasons stated in detail over the years, in many threads). But the low-hanging fruit here are misspellings, grammatical mistakes, and duplicates.

There's only benefits to merging those into one Canonised tag, for authors and readers. The former have limited tag space, the latter likely doesn't want to have to put in a dozen variations of the same things, and finding all those variations through the normal user view is difficult or impossible anyway.

I'm not sure whether this would ever get done if I don't take the initiative, so that's what I'm doing. The basic guidelines for how this is going to work is as follows:

• Canonised tag suggestions, alongside potential Synonyms to be merged, will be posted in this thread first, pinned in the Suggestions & Bugs subforum, so the userbase has an opportunity (say, 48 hours) to give feedback and object to particular mergers.
• Only search relevant terms will be merged, not every tag that has duplicate meanings.
• Tags that could be interpreted to have distinct meanings will not be merged.
• Series tags will be the full name.
• Descriptor tags will be fully spelled out.
• Finalised Canonised tags will be added into the locked Suggested Tags threads (1, 2), which will be pinned in the Creative Writing and NSFW Creative Writing subforums.

I've already gathered 195 tags, that I think can be condensed into 35:

Spoiler

{worm - worm fic} worm

{heroic mc - heroic protagonist - hero - hero mc} heroic protagonist

{anti-hero - anti-hero protagonist - antihero} anti-hero protagonist

{my hero academia - my_hero_academia - boku no hero academia - my boku academia} my hero academia

{rise of the sheild hero - rising of the shield hero - shield hero} the rising of the shield hero

{superhero - super hero} superhero

{superheroes - superheros - super heroes} superheroes

{eventual harem - harem eventually - harem eventual - eventual obligatory harem - harem… eventually} harem eventually

{harem likely - harem (most likely) - harem probably - probable harem - probably a harem? - probably harem} harem likely

{harem possible - possible harem - potential harem - harem maybe - maybe harem? - harem? - will a harem be created?} harem possible

{harem - harem obviously - harem (obviously for anyone who knows my works) - harem (obviously its danmachi) - harem galore - harem mode activate! - harem get!} harem

{harem hero - harem protagonist} harem protagonist

{no harem - not a harem - #no harem - this is a no harem zone} no harem

{reversed harem - reverse harem} reverse harem

{small harem - slight harem - not that big of a harem - minor harem - eventual small harem} small harem

{large harem - big harem} large harem

{yuri harem - lesbian harem} lesbian harem

{mc is in a harem - mc is a harem member - in a harem} mc is a harem member

{asoiaf - a song of ice and fire - a song of ice & fire - song of ice and fire} a song of ice and fire

{futa - futanari} futanari

{futa protagonist - futa mc - futanari mc} futanari protagonist

{multi crossover - multi-crossover - multicross - lots of crossovers - many crossovers - massive multicross - mutlicross - massive multicross etc - multi-cross - multi-crossover (crossover) - multicross - multicrossover - multiple crossovers} multicross

{noncon - non-con} non-con

{cross-over - cross over - crossover} crossover

{mild crossover - minor crossover} minor crossover

{alternate au - au - au content warning - au for various reasons - au obviously - au(obviously) - #alternateworld - alt universe - alt verse - alternate - alternate universe - alternateuniverse- alternative universe} alternate universe

{extreme au - drastically au - heavy au - major au - massive au - au as fuck - au a lot of au - all the au - really quite a lot of au - super au - very au - very very au - wildly au} major au

{mild au - minor au - kinda au - kind of au - contains au elements - au-elements - au elements - au kinda - au in only very minor ways - slight au - slight au elements - slightly au - some au - somewhat au - somewhatau} minor au

{bi protagonist - bi-protagonist - bisexual protagonist - bi mc - bisexual main character - bisexual mc} bisexual protagonist

{kind of a self insert - kind of a self inser - kind off self insert - self insert (I guess?) - self-insert-kinda - sorta self insert - self(?) insert - semi si - semi-si - si is kinda oc - si sorta - si? - sort of si - sorta si thing - non self insert - insert not self - non-self insert - self insert oc - oc/si - oc-si - si oc - si-oc - si/oc - si is an oc - si is basically an oc - si is not an si} si/oc

{self inserts - self-inserts (plural) - multi-self-insert - lots of self inserts - mass self insert} multiple self-inserts

{Self-insert mc - selfinsert - si - si mc - si protagonist - self insert} self-insert

{dxd - highschool dxd - high-school dxd - high school dxd} high school dxd

{genderbend - genderbender - gender bender - genderbent - gender-bender - gender-bending - genderbending - genderbending galore} genderbending

{gender bender mc - gender bending protagonist - gender flipped protagonist - gender swapped protag - genderbent mc - genderbent protagonist - genderbent!mc} genderbending protagonist

People will have 48 hours to provide feedback or object to anything being merged in the above list, or what the Canonised tag will be, and then I'll go ahead and do the merge. I'm interested in being somewhat overly-cautious here, so if there's any pushback on a tag being merged (or I have second thoughts), I'll probably just not.

In addition to the feedback on listed mergers, it's easier for me to find duplicate tags through the moderation view, so if you can suggest tags you're interested in, I can use that as a starting point to find potential mergers, or to fill up the Suggested Tags threads (which are currently empty).

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Maybe have a set of "Standardized" Tags for filters/searchs and custom "Vibe" Tags for a author to set the expectations for their story

 

[Ageless Charade]

{eventual harem - harem eventually - harem eventual - eventual obligatory harem - harem… eventually} harem eventually

{harem likely - harem (most likely) - harem probably - probable harem - probably a harem? - probably harem} harem likely

{harem possible - possible harem - potential harem - harem maybe - maybe harem? - harem? - will a harem be created?} harem possible

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All three of these merged tag ideas need to have their word order reversed; so it'd be "eventual harem, likely harem, possible harem". Small nitpick, but it's better grammatically and is how literally every other tag system out there does it.

{40k - 30k - warhammer 40k - warhammer 30k} warhammer 40

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Hey. No. Absolutely not. 30k and 40k are very, incredibly different settings, for all the similarities they share.

I think they are basically the same thing, but there might be certain connotations? Idk, I'd be equally likely to read a story tagged Yuri or lesbian but I'd come in with different expectations.

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They're basically the same, but if you really want to get into it, yuri and yaoi are technically for more explicit relationships. Essentially, if it's not smut, you should be using gay/lesbian, but people don't really make the distinction anymore.

Edit:

...

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This is also a good, other side of the coin response that shows how they're treated in more modern times.

 

[Slickji]

After using AO3 for years just hearing the word tegs makes me will my eyes.
And recently somebody was trying to lobby for this ace to use more tags to be more like AO3.
I hope this place doesn't fall into over tagging.

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oh I agree

ao3 tagging is bad because you'll search some semi niche ship with 60 or so works and occasionally enough 25 of those works will be over tagged one shot collections with only 1 chapter published that was abandoned years ago. wow so this story with 30+ different ship tags is actually just a singular one shot about exactly 1 of those ships.

ao3 tagging sucks because seemingly the people most eager to tag their works on ao3 are the least likely to publish a work actually containing those tags.

ao3 is a site where I filter by blacklisting tags and then browsing, both because of over use and also because "self-esteem issues" and "self confidence issues" are entirely separate tags and if you white-list one you lose all the words with the other so I just don't.

 

[JadeKaiser]

can we search for multiple separate tags?
I only ever use the tag system by clicking on the tags themselves.

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Yes, searching by tag is an option if you use the Advanced Search, and you can include as many tags as you want. Though, the search will only give you stories that include all the tags you include. There's no way to search by something like "at least 3 of these 5" or anything like that, so including more than 2-3 tags is usually going to get you an empty search results page.

 

[Valthorix]

you gotta merge
fate grand order & fate/grand order

yes both tags exist and it annoyed me literally yesterday.since like 30% use one and 70% use the other over in quests.

edit id also glance over the other fates and check if such things have occurred

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Re: fate, the ones with the '/' are the "proper" spelling, if that ends up being a point of confusion

 

[Spearow]

E621 = Gay/Lesbian
Danbooru = Yuri/Yaoi
Furaffinity = Gay/Lesbian
Gelbooru = Yuri/Yaoi
R34 = Gay/Yaoi, Lesbian/Yuri

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I have no idea what most of those words mean, never heard of the E621 thing either, why not just leave a gay or lesbian and keep it simple?

 

[Venumize]

FYI, if multiple people have objected to a potential merger already, you don't need to be worried that I'm gonna push it through anyway. The point of this exercise is to merge all the low-hanging fruit, so controversial mergers just won't happen. Whether something is a slur isn't really the topic of this thread.

Relatedly, this is a good faith collaborative project, and this-


-is not at all dealing with others in good faith. I'll leave it to another mod to deal with you, but, as a general notice to the thread, please don't do this kind of thing.

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I'm curious on how you may plan to implement this? Would you ask mods to go through and change the tags already there or the authors?

Or will this be a more "going forward do this" type of deal? I would add some but most others already had my ideas such as just Anti-NTR or all the game of thrones stuff.

 

[Valthorix]

I have no idea what most of those words mean, never heard of the E621 thing either, why not just leave a gay or lesbian and keep it simple?

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Generally, sites primarily dedicated to this kind of content use the japanese terms over any english variant because they are almost always one word and English sometimes doesn't have a proper term for the thing being described. Also some English terms made up over the past few years are... politically charged.