Penalty for not disclosing ai work

[Lady Naga]

I've tagged all my fics as human-written so instead of doing that, only read fics with the human-written tag. Just filter for it, and ask other authors who are human-written to tag their works.

 

[Malcolm Tent]

So I am just supposed to waste my previous time reading ai slop when I can read some authentic work?

Also, witch hunt is both bad and sounds bad. I am taking about enforcing rules so that people don't waste their time.

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You can't enforce AI tags because you can't reliably determine what IS AI. AI detectors are bullshit, so it IS a witch hunt, because any accusation boils down to 'I think this real hard'. Wanting to penalize people for things you can't prove is the LITERAL definition of a witch hunt lol.

 

[Nyaa]

What is this slop you ask? Pick a popular writing prompt, tag, and/or fandom, you'll find people to call it such. Worm, RWBY, CYOA, Waifu Catalogue, Celestial ___, Incest, Loli/Shotacon, etc, etc...

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>kink shaming

 

[ZacSunTiBidea]

Fundamentally, the AI hate in story creation fields comes from not understanding how stories work. Not understanding the beating heart of the muse that brings life into stories.

Because as you develop that understanding, that intimate relation with Art, you realize that hating AI for making the stories bad is like blaming a soggy carpet for the flood.

Any writer ever that genuinely loves the art of the story is going to develop the skills of the art as a natural byproduct of loving the art. That is simply built in to what it is to love art.

A writer handed a tool to make part of the learning curve easier is going to pick it up and bother to learn how to use it. Whether that be AI, Writing guidebooks, Literature classes, ink so that they don't have to memorize the entire poem or saga, or the concept of writing in the first place.

Sure, advise individual authors about the known habit holes we're spotting around AI usage. Sure, personally scorn anyone using it openly if you aren't articulate enough to help them. Sure, act like someone who just hates reading but thinks they have to like it.

But the answer is not going to ever be found in screaming at the tool. If you love reading, act like it and foster writers. If you love writing, act like and foster readers.

If you're not here because you love something here that you can foster, why are you here instead of fostering your own growth in something you love?

 

[Minimorrigu]

Fundamentally, the AI hate in story creation fields comes from not understanding how stories work

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That is a hell of a take, considering you don't actually explain it any further.

writer handed a tool to make part of the learning curve easier is going to pick it up and bother to learn how to use it.

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But the answer is not going to ever be found in screaming at the tool

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This is honestly wishful thinking at its worst. It totally ignores any other possibility other than one you have decided exists. Some will pick it up as a tool to help learn. Others will use it with no intention of learning just to churn out all they can. Others still will find other uses for it, like flooding question threads with nonsensical replies just to be an ass.

As for not screaming at the tool, a nuclear bomb is a tool. Nuclear proliferation treaties did a reasonably good job stopping us from having to live in a radioactive hellhole. Hyperbole? Perhaps but the point is that some tools are, in and of themselves, a problem.

 

[FTR2017]

You find a work that suddenly turns to AI-gen crap that isn't edited?

Provide a scathing constructive criticism that also warns any future readers that the lazy fuck in question didn't even bother editing and polishing the abortion they posted, that their whatever number of early chapters did have work put unto them, but the rest was left untouched as the deceitful failures that they are.

That's within rules, as they're being lazy shits coasting on their AI abortion generator.

Shame them then block them and their thread if you're feeling that strong about it.

Otherwise? Either start a thread listing such treacherous finds for others to chip in--with evidence of lack of edits, to back your claims--or just put their thread on ignore. It's easy and gratifying to do!

I've put several on ignore already!

 

[Lady Naga]

I am not pro-AI, but there are rules you need to follow. I strongly recommend you start webrings of authors you trust, talk about dropping stories you disliked, and participating in the writing community so that you can find like minded people who will help recommend fiction you enjoy. You are asking volunteers to do your job as a fan. The fiction is free, because it's free, it's your job to find art you enjoy.

 

[Billbo baggins]

I propose someone puts up an AI written prompt. You can go in there put up stories that have been verified or believed to be written with AI to allow others to see this. I don't believe there is any rules against that and it could help people either find what they are looking for or steer away from what they dislike.

 

[Minimorrigu]

I am not pro-AI, but there are rules you need to follow. I strongly recommend you start webrings of authors you trust, talk about dropping stories you disliked, and participating in the writing community so that you can find like minded people who will help recommend fiction you enjoy. You are asking volunteers to do your job as a fan. The fiction is free, because it's free, it's your job to find art you enjoy.

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This is honestly good advice even disregarding the AI issue. It just helps you find good stories that you like.

believed to

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Therein lies the problem. If it isn't, and the author gets dragged through the mud because someone incorrectly labelled their work through AI, thats a problem. You can label it as bad writing because that's an argument with nuance, but labelling AI is either right or wrong and it does damage when you guess incorrectly.

Given the amount of legitimate artists bullied off of platfroms during the initial waves of anti AI sentiment, im not keen to see that repeated here.

 

[magic9mushroom]

It honestly depresses me sometimes to see how many people are chomping at the bit to absolutely fucking ruin some poor, new writer's day because they wrote in a way that someone decided was Ai and then that person argued a bunch of other people around. Seriously, I don't know why this is so hard. We don't want witch hunts. I know QQ prides itself on being more free than a lot of other forums, but there's a difference between ''free'' and ''this is the wild west where we go after someone if we don't like their looks.''

As a writer who has never used AI and never will, that is doing more harm than help and I don't really care if slightly inconveniencing you is the price for not treating new writers as criminals ready to be tossed out of the forum or hounded down at the first possible hint that they might be using AI from a detector that doesn't even have a high success rate.

I apologise for being so blunt, but this is what, the third, fourth time this has come up here? People act as if the detectors are actually worth a damn and are totally willing and ready to throw people to the wolves in the name of something that can barely hit 50% on a good day.

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I would like to propose some kind of punishment for people trying to start witch hunts at this point. It's been months since it really kicked off, and it's incredibly annoying. Please, just any kind of rule getting these types of people to stop.

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The reason there are witch-hunts is because there are a whole pile of witches fucking us all over.

Let's be clear here, people who claim their writing isn't AI when it is, and use that to get donations? Those people are literal fraudsters breaking the law. It is not unreasonable to hate being defrauded and to want to have less of it.

The problem is specifically that QQ doesn't have any way to actually catch the fraudsters, so the demands to Do Something aren't productive because there's nothing QQ can Do*. But punishing people for asking is unfair.

*Enforcing that companies keep a register of all the text their AIs generate, that people can have suspect text compared to, would help somewhat (it'd at least force them into using open-source models). Banning neural nets worldwide is the only way to wipe it out completely, though. Of course, you need to talk to politicians for that, not QQ mods.

 

[Savinkov]

And another inquisition attempt is blocked.

 

[Avernus]

The reason there are witch-hunts is because there are a whole pile of witches fucking us all over.

Let's be clear here, people who claim their writing isn't AI when it is, and use that to get donations? Those people are literal fraudsters breaking the law. It is not unreasonable to hate being defrauded and to want to have less of it.

The problem is specifically that QQ doesn't have any way to actually catch the fraudsters, so the demands to Do Something aren't productive because there's nothing QQ can Do*. But punishing people for asking is unfair.

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This. AI fakery - and not just of writing - is a problem our society needs to solve. But it's not the job of QQ to do it, and it lacks the ability to do so even if it tried.

And another inquisition attempt is blocked.

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More "watching the slow destruction of the forum because nobody here has the ability to stop it".

 

[Minimorrigu]

Let's be clear here, people who claim their writing isn't AI when it is, and use that to get donations? Those people are literal fraudsters breaking the law. It is not unreasonable to hate being defrauded and to want to have less of it.

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This. AI fakery - and not just of writing - is a problem our society needs to solve.

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So you'll deliberately ruin people who are totally innocent to get to them? Every time an argument like this happens, this is what people jump to and spare not a single thought for the obvious issue that will come up when you go in guns blazing. Someone defrauding a critical service? cut people off for the slightest provocation. problem solved (except, it actually isn't). The fact that some/most people genuinely needed it and the suspicion was wrong? *shrug* "if they die, they die," to paraphrase the Rocky movies.

This reasoning is absolutely fucked, it is not a valid solution to the problem. Its an emotionalist response to a feeling of being injured, an attempt to assuage personal ego and nothing more.

"watching the slow destruction of the forum because nobody here has the ability to stop it".

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And this is pure hyperbole.

 

[Avernus]

So you'll deliberately ruin people who are totally innocent to get to them?

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And where did I say that? I said that there was nothing that can be done by QQ.

Either society at large will solve the problem, or it will collapse; probably the former. But it won't be QQ that solves the problem.

 

[magic9mushroom]

So you'll deliberately ruin people who are totally innocent to get to them? Every time an argument like this happens, this is what people jump to and spare not a single thought for the obvious issue that will come up when you go in guns blazing. Someone defrauding a critical service? cut people off for the slightest provocation. problem solved (except, it actually isn't). The fact that some/most people genuinely needed it and the suspicion was wrong? *shrug* "if they die, they die," to paraphrase the Rocky movies.

This reasoning is absolutely fucked, it is not a valid solution to the problem. Its an emotionalist response to a feeling of being injured, an attempt to assuage personal ego and nothing more.

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You might want to finish reading posts before replying angrily to them in the future. Literally the next sentence:

The problem is specifically that QQ doesn't have any way to actually catch the fraudsters, so the demands to Do Something aren't productive because there's nothing QQ can Do*

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[Cherry Lover]

The problem is specifically that QQ doesn't have any way to actually catch the fraudsters, so the demands to Do Something aren't productive because there's nothing QQ can Do*. But punishing people for asking is unfair.

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Yeah, I don't think it's reasonable to punish people for asking, but at this point I think you can reasonably point to the about fifteen other "please enforce AI tagging!" threads and ask why they didn't bother to check if someone had brought it up before prior to asking again. Although I think it would be more productive at this point for the mods to just add a notice saying "no, we are not enforcing tagging, stop asking!"

 

[.We]

Detecting "AI" usage is impossible. RNG gives better results. Even shitposters have started mimicking LLMs as a form of parody.

But most people do not even care about AI. They care about the flood of garbage polluting their online spaces.

What I find funny is people crying about a problem that was solved decades ago.

Randos post random crap? Bring back the dislike button, and automatically hide downvoted content. Users who desire slop, or think community voters are idiots are free to adjust their filter to include everything.

This also serves as incentive for "authors" (prompters) to improve content quality, because anything that hurts their index visibility also lessens chance of Patreon conversions.

 

[magic9mushroom]

What I find funny is people crying about a problem that was solved decades ago.

Randos post random crap? Bring back the dislike button, and automatically hide downvoted content. Users who desire slop, or think community voters are idiots are free to adjust their filter to include everything.

This also serves as incentive for "authors" (prompters) to improve content quality, because anything that hurts their index visibility also lessens chance of Patreon conversions.

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Unfortunately, cancel mobs exist and would rapidly convert the described system into a de facto censor board via brigading, forcing everyone to disable it in order to view stories the cancel mob didn't like.

At worst, you'd see such a mob shaking down authors for money and/or story edits in return for not being so brigaded.

 

[Avernus]

Bring back the dislike button, and automatically hide downvoted content.

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And then anyone unpopular gets unpersoned, and people with agendas can silence anyone they like.

 

[.We]

Toxic behavior like reviewbombing is super visible with a bit statistics. Giving those votes zero or near-zero weight is trivial.

 

[SnarkLord]

..there is a reason that, to my knowledge, no forum with story content has a dislike button.
Because holy hell can that easily be abused.
And before you say "mods can make sure it isn't abused/it can be only used by people who fulfill X condition", it happening.
The staff does it in their free time. They have their lives, they do not have will nor the time to spend looking over thousands of threads to check for abuse. They are not going to add a function that would only serve to increase their work.

And option two is jusy plain elitism, no matter what you dry it to, it will devolve to 'people who can dislike' vs'people who cant dislike'
(And, to be perfectly transparent and blatant. I do not give a single fuck how other sites dealt with that. This isn't yhose sites)

but at this point I think you can reasonably point to the about fifteen other "please enforce AI tagging!" threads and ask why they didn't bother to check if someone had brought it up before prior to asking again.

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They're readers. They don't read.

Also
I am freely embracing the fact the rest of the post may make me sound like an asshole, but this same fucking topic has been brought up so many times I've run out of fucks to give.


regarding recognizing ai.
Already brought up several times, its factually impossible to tell, it is wuite literally 'I'm getting vibes this may be an ai work'.
There is no software that can guarantee to detect ai that cant be spoofed, deceived and/or worked around. Until such a thing exists(never), the staff are going to point blank ignore any software suggestion because false positives would be an absolute *bitch* in this.

Any option of giving normies ways to add tags/freely vote for this on literally every thread is also not going to happen. It *can* lead to abuse of power. It does not matter if its suggested in a truly innocent hope of helping people the staff will not hand out tools that could enable witch hunts.
also, they're not going to add options that would multiply their workload. They're not insane. And as this is a dictatorship(if a benevolent o e), they are also certainly not obliged to do so

On complaints of users pretending to be writers but are instead using AI.
Honestly don't expect a genuine answer, but still...i wonder how many people who complain about 'writers that use ai' actually, you know *left conarucrive criticism on thread to help an author improve* instead of just blatantly accusing its ai(and depending on their attitude, maybe ate an infraction if they were rude in the threads) and/or opening a new topic to bitch and moan about.

On people using ai to write /to have them help out/that accidentally sound like ai.
...look around you. Ai commercials, ai programs, ai search results, ai videos, *ai built in at least a quarter of the latest windows and phone systems*
Younger people wouldn't fucking know to recognize ai because they're surrounded by it , and unless you decide to tell a new author 'oh sure disable all spellcheck and suggestions in the program you use to write', they are probably minorly using ai without them even knowing....and no new author is going to be insane to disable a free way to spellcheck their own work

"But these ai using folks are pretending to be writers and are getting paid for it!"
Not my problem. Not qq's problem. The forum has absolutely no involvement in how any user decides to earn their living. The only way you could stop it would be for the nods to 100% completely ban any kind of promoting, which would *actively* have a bad effect on folks who currently have it ad their only slurce of income...and it isn't enforcable anyways so not happening.
If someone thinks they paid a fraud that's on them. If they think they can gather enough evidence, good luck dealing with that with the service providers. Again, not QQ or other users' issue.

And that's without going into the issues of how people learned to write/learned English for those who have it as their 2nd/3rd/etc language, diffetent grammar rules and ways their older literature works were written
(I am absolutely serious on this. Youmay say 'ai doesn't sound human. no one talks like that, while well over half ai content i read i can *easily* see come out the mouths of some of my neighbors/coworkers. Just because it doesn't sound like someone you know doesn't mean its fully artificial. It has to draw source from *somewhere*)

 

[ZacSunTiBidea]

That is a hell of a take, considering you don't actually explain it any further.



This is honestly wishful thinking at its worst. It totally ignores any other possibility other than one you have decided exists. Some will pick it up as a tool to help learn. Others will use it with no intention of learning just to churn out all they can. Others still will find other uses for it, like flooding question threads with nonsensical replies just to be an ass.

As for not screaming at the tool, a nuclear bomb is a tool. Nuclear proliferation treaties did a reasonably good job stopping us from having to live in a radioactive hellhole. Hyperbole? Perhaps but the point is that some tools are, in and of themselves, a problem.

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"But what about the people who don't love art making slop just for whatever engagement currency they're obsessed with."

They're already here, they've already been doing it for years, and you haven't once provided a premise that addresses them other than community engagement and witch hunts.

Try learning more about how the actual story interplay works. Or just keep insisting that it must be the new gadget that is making your life hell.

I'll keep pointing out that literally nothing fundamental has changed and that you obsessing on a tool that beginners find handy instead of on the interplay that makes people want to misuse it is actively wasting your breath.

You want the understanding of how loving art makes you want to get better at it? Start with an art you love. Watch how *you* are the only thing that prevents you from getting better at it while you enjoy creating it. Experience the dynamic in person instead of just waiting for someone to give you their word in a way you magically believe.

 

[magic9mushroom]

"But these ai using folks are pretending to be writers and are getting paid for it!"
Not my problem. Not qq's problem. The forum has absolutely no involvement in how any user decides to earn their living. The only way you could stop it would be for the nods to 100% completely ban any kind of promoting, which would *actively* have a bad effect on folks who currently have it ad their only slurce of income...and it isn't enforcable anyways so not happening.
If someone thinks they paid a fraud that's on them. If they think they can gather enough evidence, good luck dealing with that with the service providers. Again, not QQ or other users' issue.

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I'm the only one in this thread who's talked explicitly about the for-profit scammers, and I already noted that it's not something QQ can fix. Not sure why you put this in.

I will caution against the mindset of "fraud is everywhere, accept it, blame the victims for being stupid". Fraudsters are evil. They are the ones deserving blame, and it should be remembered that the ideal solution to fraud (if not always a practical one) is always to get rid of the fraudsters.

(I also only mentioned the payment part because I was calling them criminals, and usually you need some kind of tangible loss to the victim for that.)

 

[flow]

Another AI witch-hunt thread at this rate the mods are gonna ban the next person that creates another thread.

 

[.We]

I'm the only one in this thread who's talked explicitly about the for-profit scammers, and I already noted that it's not something QQ can fix.

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Best way to keep grifters away is to adopt a strict anti-monetization policy. Fanfics are already legal grey area, but so long as there's no profit made, suing will mean major PR loss for IP holder. That's how AO3 and FF avoid being sued out of existence.

Sadly "AI fraud" is a real thing. I've already seen four different Patreon authors running a bait-and-switch scams on another platform. First few chapters were fine and ended in a Patreon plug. Remaining story devolved into unreadable slop. Because of how early access content-model works. they aren't even doing anything criminal beyond not having a permission from IP holder.