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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    You may have a point here.

    I think when he first went to Qward he thought about supporting Varathon due to him being more interested in being a merchant rather than an omnicidal lunatic.

    With Varathon he can get a guy that has the resources tо make him powerful weapons and lacks the religious devotion Kalmin has to what is basically omnicide given form.

    Though if Varathon is against the Maltusians, due to them fighting each other, then things may be difficult.

    Or the lessons aren't exactly sticking.
     
  2. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Hard to say, I'm not sure I remember what precautions OL has taken since the Pigeon of War curb-stomped his helpless ass.

    He was just starting to show some flex when the Reach punked him again, and then his Weaponer drug him off to this. So I guess we are waiting to see what OL's death, cloning rebirth, and re-enlightenment might mean for him.

    And thinking over the title, "Weaponer", I'm struck by a thought I've had before.

    Villains are constantly making new villains. But even powerful heroes with the means to do so, rarely, if ever, bother to make new heroes.

    Like, take the Absorbing man. Just an idiot in a prison cell....then Loki feeds him some Asgardian herbs (seriously) and he becomes a top tier threat to people like Thor, The Hulk, and others. One so powerful, he's only held back by the fact that he's uneducated and prone to tactical mistakes.

    It's like, you'd think that at least once, someone like Thor or Dr. Strange would come across someone who really wants to be a hero and do some good. But instead of giving them the whole "You too can do great things, incredibly normal, vulnerable to bullets man! Join the Police academy and when evil strikes, you too can cower under the rubble, praying that you don't die until someone like me comes and saves your helpless ass." Instead chooses to empower them, or at least gives them the chance for such.
     
  3. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    Zatanna mentioned being able to improve his tattoos, so maybe she did that.

    And I guess he may have stocked up in his anti angel weaponry and that anti angel metal kaahuite.

    Good point.

    I guess paragon and renegade have empowered people that wish to be heroes, improved some heroes, or played a role in the empowerment of other heroes.

    Renegade giving that girl from Earth 50 the Garrick Formula and Awakening a bunch of people.

    Paul Dannering several people and giving other forms of empowerment, as well as playing a role in finding Amon and thus leading to Adom empowering him.

    And of course there's the whole giving people rings.

    The other heroes that come to mind doing this, both in this story and in the comics, are the wizard Shazam, Billy Batson and Adom.

    Shazam apparently served a similar role to the other two and he gave them powers, Billy empowered his friends or foster siblings and his uncle, and Adom helped his wife and brother-in-law gain powers.
     
  4. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    My observation was more about actual comics then Zoat's work. As both the Paragon and the Renegade have also made steps to aid the police in stepping it the fuck up, and being less then fodder.

    Of course, with comics being what they are, it would go horribly and lead to supervillainy inside of a month.

    It just sort of struck me when I was thinking about various characters. I know dozens of villains created by other villains. But I can't think of too many heroes that were created by heroes.

    Like, you'd almost think that at least once, there would be some sort of school or whatnot. I mean yeah we have the X-mansion, but that's just for mutant kids.

    But you would think someone would try the idea, if only in secret.

    Off the top of my head....Captain America was deliberate. Hulk, Spider-man, the Fantastic Four were all accidents.

    Hank Pym was more a scientist who decided (kinda) to fight crime with his inventions.

    Iron man might be the best example of a guy setting out to be a hero. But even his idea was based around saving himself at first.

    The X-men were all born with what they have.

    Shit...I'm really drawing a blank. It's like, heroing has to be something that is done to you, or that you're born into and thus have a responsibility rather than something you set out to do.
     
  5. quietwhile

    quietwhile Getting out there.

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    Unless he wanted to... you know, use
    seismic sensors to detect possible incoming attacks.
     
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  6. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    Iron Man did help Rhodey and Pepper get their own armour.

    Also I think the Jane becoming Thor can also count.

    I was also considering Ultimate Hank Pym giving powers to his wife, but I remembered that she was a mutant there and he just claimed that he did it because he's an insecure douchebag.

    Oh and there were those times some Earth Lanterns started giving rings to people.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
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  7. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    Or wanted to save ring charge.

    Seeing as they're on a very dangerous planet he's going to need all the charge he can get.
     
  8. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Technically Rhodey was the one guy Tony trusted to be Iron man while he was off getting drunk, and after Rhodey went crazy and Tony had to take it back, he ended up becoming War Machine.

    I'm not sure if that should count.

    I can't speak for Pepper though.

    Ulck....This must be what Zoat tastes when Nu52 is brought up.

    Barring my irritation and disgust with that whole debacle. I can't count that, as that was just Jane stealing Thor's hammer, something that happens all the fucking time really, moreso then her approaching Thor or Thor approaching her.

    And yes, I'm calling it stealing. Because Marvel went out of their way to make sure they insulted long time Thor fans like me as much as they possibly could while shilling the fuck out of Jane.

    Oh look, no one cared, the numbers didn't shoot through the roof, and they came crawling back, pleading for my money and attention.
     
  9. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Yes, it is. Know my pain.
     
  10. AngelicKnight.

    AngelicKnight. Lewd demon of negotiable affection

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    That sounds like something a Psionic villain would say while using their powers to burn out a victim's mind.

    Just... "Know My Pain!"
    *Insert evil laugh here as the hero's eyes bleed and their mind is assailed with raw suffering and torment*
     
  11. Maxx Crowley

    Maxx Crowley I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Threadmarks: Anti-Thesis (part 13)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    11th July 2012
    15:30 GMT


    My armour's shields flare and flicker as the mouth grips and shakes me back and forth! My environmental shield keeps me from being disorientated and I can see the screens-.

    Ah. Allosaurus.

    A second one scrambles out of the ground and grabs my left arm, scuffling with the first as it tries to pull me apart! My deployed blade cuts through a tooth, but the Devourer still holds on-.

    They were hiding in the hole Ragnar made? That's-. That suggests a lot of intelligence. But how do I get out without using my rings?

    There's a small spark in my left arm as the kinetic barrier fails, and I immediately switch on the crumbler gauntlet.

    "Uuuuuuuuuuuuuu!"

    The Devourer's mouth froths with blood as the crumbler field gets to work, but it's… Somehow holding on, though with less pressure than it managed before.

    "Kalmin, found the Devourers!"

    A third Devourer surfaces and bounds towards the oncoming skimmers, the people on board choosing to open fire with personal side arms rather than fall back. To little apparent effect.

    My right arm's out of position, but if I pull-. My left arm comes free in a spray of vaporised dinosaur, causing the Devourer still gripping me to stagger a pace as we lose the counterbalance. I reach across with my left arm as my ring restores the kinetic barrier system, slicing through its muzzle with my x-ionised blade. It bleeds a little, but I'm not hitting anything critical or structural. My attack does prompt it to lift me up and slam me into the-. The ground, yes, felt that a bit.

    Devourer Three has made it to the first skimmer and bites it in two, the q'ardajin on board scrabbling out of the way or diving for the ground. A brave one draws what looks like a small qwa blade and staggers across the deck to try and stab-.

    The Devourer spots him, ducks its head to smash the wreck into the ground and then brings its head up to catch him as he falls. It bites down, sending his head and shins exploding outwards as his body disappears down its gullet.

    I slash again, excising a part of my captor's jaw and loosening its hold, then turn my armour's flight system to full-! Its head jerks to the side but it manages to keep its grip. Alright, ring, rebuild the interior of my left gauntlet to include a railgun.

    Compliance.

    And then load it with a crumbler round.

    Compliance.

    I've got a crumbler system built into my boots but I'm not flexible enough to hit anything with them. On the other hand, I'm mildly impressed with how well my armour is holding togeth-.

    Devourer Two slams into Devourer One, sending it and me rolling across the barren ground, images spinning-. My ring settles my stomach as Devourer One rolls to its feet and squares off against Two. Guess I'm not tasty enough.

    Railgun ready.

    Slow-firing and low-impact compared to the ones I usually use, but I aim at Devourer One's right eye as it prepares to charge Two and fire. Its eye is vaporised and it shakes in shock and I reverse thrust for a second before pulling away again! Teeth snap and fragments spray as I come free, my sudden impulse sending me across the rocky ground in a tumble.

    Stabilise. Right, good. Two takes advantage of One's distraction to attack it, biting at its neck. I don't know how they managed to stand being in close proximity underground if their first instinct is to attack each other, but maybe it's a combat reflex? Or maybe they just hatched? Or the sight of blood? Because whatever makes them regenerate that fast doesn't get rid of the external scabs. Alright, next-.

    "YAAAGH!"

    Rescue the q'ardajin from Three-. Not something a Weaponer-produced robot would do. Except that's literally what Gnaxos did. Oh, if they ask I can always say that they registered as a non-threat. I fly towards Three, integrated railgun aiming-. Heck. I shoot a trapped q'ardajin in the shoulder, breaking her body's connection to the arm that is in the Devourer's mouth. It tries to lunge after her but she rolls aside, its muzzle hitting the ground and losing the arm as it gets a mouthful of dirt. Right, let's try a decapitation strike. Ring, extend right x-ionised blade.

    Compliance.

    Unwieldy, but it's not like I'm trying to duel someone here. I lunge and swing, cleaving through its spine and neck, its neck-. Trying to reconnect as I pass, but a combination of a reverse swipe and its own weight splits the two parts far enough apart that the… Regrowth tendrils are unable to grasp one another. A quick healing ray burst at the woman's shoulder-.

    The shot from the weapon in her off-hand hits the centre of my torso and bores through about 5mm of the armour before I switch to my plasmic force field.

    "Get eaten, the-."

    I go flying as One and Two roll through the space I was occupying, scrabbling at each with all four claws! I slam into the ground, q'ardajin-. Yes, they're shooting me now, great. Shield's holding okay, so I guess they're not using dedicated anti-shield weapons. I bring my sword to bear-.

    One of them just shot it. Ah-.

    "Incompetent machine."

    The Devourers scramble back onto their feet as Kalmin holds out his right hand, qwa energy cracking as he forces it into a thunderbolt shape.

    "Beast, flee or-."

    "RAAAAAGH!" / "RAAAAAGH!"

    They charge, and Kalmin throws. The qwa bolt strikes the ground between then, detonating and annihilating their legs and lower torsos. He stalks forward as they land and then try and squirm snake-like towards him. He gives his hammer a practice swing as another qwa-bolt forms.

    "Death, then. It was good to see such a pure killer-" He aims the bolt- "-instinct." -and throws it, Two's head being annihilated as One snaps at him. Kalmin sidesteps and swings his hammer, the sudden energy release causing its head to snap in two. "If only q'ardajin were so simple."

    One tries, somehow, to move. Kalmin bats its mouth down with his hammer and climbs onto what's left of its broken head. He takes a moment to make eye contact with it, making sure that it knows exactly who is going to kill it. Then he raises his right hand high, forms a new bolt, then plunges it downwards.

    Kalmin floats off the ground for a moment as the head vanishes, contemplating the space where it used to be. Then he prepares another qwa bolt, glaring at the other q'ardajin.

    "Why are you here?"

    One tries shooting him. Kalmin's armour easily tanks the shot and his qwa bolt riposte disintegrates the man and the three standing closest to him.

    Kalmin floats forward to stand on the Devourer's chest.

    "You coming here just as I return is not a coincidence. If you tell me who sent you, I will probably turn my ire against them-."

    "You should be dead!"

    The other q'ardajin back away from the one-armed woman who shouted that.

    "You gave a great weapon to an alien and they let you live!"

    "I can't argue the facts. But you have erred in your belief that you could do anything about it."

    "That's not the point. I am not so craven that I only try things that are easy!"

    Kalmin actually smiles a little at that, though I don't think any of them can see that.

    "This wasn't easy, and you too failed at it. What should be your punishment, I wonder?"
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
  13. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    Lacks colored quote marks.

    They're probably offended you helped them.

    Seeing as they considered evil to be good in the comics, giving aid to others is probably their equivalent of child molestation.

    'such a pure'

     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
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  14. Someguy Somewhere

    Someguy Somewhere The Critical Fumbler

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    During/Post Marvel Civil War, they had the Initiative.

    The Idea was to have each American state with it's own government backed super hero team on standby.

    Each team would be trained and equipped by SHIELD, and they did have a central training center where (Registered) superhero's would be trained.

    The fact that anyone With powers was forced into being Registered, and if they Wanted to use those powers were Required to go to Training was part of the Civil War issue itself. Cloud Nine is one of the characters they created to show what this process was like. Random person with the power to fly, was recruited when War Machine just Shows Up in Full Gear and tells her if she wants to fly, she required to go to training or go to Jail or be forcibly de-powered.

    The Problem, was that they stuck Henry Gyrich in charge of it. A long running marvel character and a real bastard. Most know him from the X-men where he's very much a 'screw their rights, they're walking WMDs' camp, but he's also been placed in charge of dealing with the avengers when they were government backed in the past. He was one of the folks that was overjoyed when M-day happened, because that meant that random super powers were back to being SCIENCE, rather then a global genetic lottery, and 'MERICA had the leading edge on producing heros that way.

    So he militarizes the whole training program, where children get boot camp complete with live fire exercises with alien death rays, and hires a super villain by the name of Taskmaster to help with training. This KILLS a kid, which he covers up with cloning and threats. He also spins off a Black Ops Team, that he tries to use to take down unregistered heros.
     
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  15. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
     
  16. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Ha, it seems Kalmin is about to meet q'ardajin who are even more fanatic than he is. Fun.
     
  17. transhumansage

    transhumansage I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    what happened to him. eventually. i want to say that since people like stan lee and ditko were in this industry (and they wanted comics to be uplifting), that gyrich gets his just reward. but somehow i doubt thats what happend.
     
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  18. Chaoswind

    Chaoswind Lord of nonsense

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    What is this nonsense?

    SOD broken immediately.

    Zoat it has been established by you several times that the kinetic barriers need HUGE amounts of kinetic energy before they FLARE as in literally Superman is punching you with all he has and it takes several punches for the barrier to flare. Are you telling me these allosaours wannabes are biting harder than superman punches? Than Captain Nazi?

    It's nonsense.

    You established that kinetic barriers are better off being ignored using lasers or gas weapons than trying to get through them by purely kinetic means.

    SOD instantly broken, cannot even muster the desire to keep reading now. Best to sleep and see if I can swallow this nonsense tomorrow.
     
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  19. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker, Rookie Proofreader

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    Devourers it is. And not small ones by the sound if it. Best option is to hit hard until it decides you're too ornery to eat.

    Any number of forearm-mounted weapons? You should at least have crumbler systems in the knuckles.

    There we go! Say good bye to your teeth, beastie.

    ...Okay, these things must have dense cellular structures if a Crumbler didn't erase it's mouth entirely. Or is it simply too big for that?

    Well, at least they aren't on the invader's side. Surprised they aren't going for heavier weapons, but I guess they didn't come loaded for Devourer. Though if they were coming for Kalmin, I would have been loaded for Devourer anyway. After all, he was High Weaponer, he's got to be well hard.

    Presumably they're packing a lot of cranial armour plating. Also: ow. This is going to be a messy fight.

    :rolleyes: Well done, dumbass. Maybe now it's had something to eat, it'll be a little less aggressive. Not that that'll help your former friends any.

    Man, you need to rig up these things as modular, stowed in subspace or something.

    Ah, going for the Chunky Salsa route. Not that I think these things will be all that bothered by crumblers...

    Or they're doing the old "Oi, I saw it first!" "Gerroff, I had it in me mouth!" argument. They're clearly not used to facing that much resistance from a meal...

    Okay, I see why Kalmin doesn't mind them. They're tough and ornery as hell...

    Oh right, the attacking Qwardians. Wonder if they're a formal hit squad or some enthusiastic amateurs... Given their lack of big guns, likely the latter.

    Well, at least she's out of its' mouth? And now she herself can build a better one, with blackjack and hookers Razor-claws and lasers. (Trusting someone else to make it? Foolishness!)

    Geez, are these things part-Czarnian or something? That is ludicrously aggressive regeneration. Still, having its' spine severed should slow it down a little.

    Hey, she probably recognised you as Kalmin's pet robot, and you did target her with an unknown energy weapon. She probably feels justified.

    Sheesh, I guess someone took Sunder as a bonus feat. Really need a beam-resistant coating or something on them.

    Ah, Daddy's stepped in. Someone's getting annihilated!

    They're likely in a blood rage at this point. Everything else is food. And that regeneration must make them ravenous.

    To be fair, Q'ardajin do have more developed needs than Food, Sleep and Mating.

    Yeah, that's a clear 'Who's next? Come have a go if you think you're hard enough!' moment. Any sane person would probably back down...

    ...Too bad these guys clearly aren't sane. Kalmin's probably thinking 'Need more gun.' at that dipstick.

    I like that he only suggests that he won't kill them all. Depends on how quickly they pony up, I bet.

    My, she's got some feelings towards him. Do we have a true believer, perhaps?

    That would be Sinestro's Yellow Ring, I take it. I can't think of any other great weapons Kalmin might have handed over.

    I suspect she would demand death. Which might be enough to impress him that he doesn't kill her immediately. Her buddies, however...

    The lady has guts, at least. Calling out a master Weaponer who just took down two Devourers and several warriors with about as much effort as he would brush dust off his shoulder? I can see that endearing her to him. I don't see him letting her live, but he might ask her name at least, so he can remember a true Q'ardajin. Guess we'll see tomorrow.


    ...with personal side arms rather than fall back.
    My left arm comes free in a spray of vaporised dinosaur...
    "That's not the point. I am not so craven that I only try things that are easy!"
     
  20. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    These are animals native to Qward.

    Qward is an extremely dangerous planet and anything that can survive on it is probably extremely powerful.

    Hell it wouldn't be surprising if the Qwardians, one of the best weapon makers in the multiverse, modified these things to be dangerous enough to give Kryptonians trouble.

    They could be either VERY strong, or have some exotic properties that allow them to damage kinetic barriers.
     
  21. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

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    It's possible.

    Kalmin mentioned that they brought alien animals to their planet, so these could be Czarnian animals.

    They also have MAIM, KILL, BURN.

    Qwardians aren't exactly sane.
     
  22. Someguy Somewhere

    Someguy Somewhere The Critical Fumbler

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    Oh they keep bringing him back every time they need a really big asshole to handle the government side of superhero stuff, despite his attempts to kill heros, repeatedly. He's screwed over the Avengers a couple times, got put in as part of Project Wideawake, the Sentinel program. Last the wiki has him, he was doing the same old shit with S.W.O.R.D and aliens, after getting bounced around a while.

    You know how Thunderbolt Ross kept trying to kill or weaponize the hulk?

    Think same idea, but with ALL superheros.

    And they keep hiring him back!

    IRL the character's been around since '77 to present. He's not got his comeuppance yet.
     
  23. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Because... Obviously a Qwardian super-predator doesn't have any way to bypass shields?
    Thank you, corrected.
     
  24. Xelloss

    Xelloss Getting sticky.

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    Completly unrelated to the current situation : I just learned that Games Workshop released a new 40k edition. Is it worth anything or should I continue preserving my sanity by ignoring whatever GW writers manage to inflict on us ?
     
  25. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    I gave up when they changed the name of the Eldar and brought out Mutie Marines.
     
  26. Someguy Somewhere

    Someguy Somewhere The Critical Fumbler

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    They're on....9th edition I think.

    I started in 3rd and left just as 5th was coming out. Honestly it's not a very cost effective hobby. We call it 'Plastic Crack' for a reason. Still, I keep an eye on it in passing because the lore is interesting. It's a bit hard to parse the newer stuff without trying to play it, but if you want to skip the price of entry there are VR Tabletop versions that can be played.

    I did get worried when they started treating tanks as just big creatures with wounds rather then Armor Values.

    From what I've seen of it 9th is fairly close to 8th mechanics wise, there's some balancing issues and trying to get things a bit more condensed but no huge overhaul. Recent editions have gone a bit wild with using web resources for unit details. Points / power level pricing for units are all online, so the can update those values without going about releasing a new version of a army book. Easier to find data, but the context of the data still needs books for the most part. All the complex stuff about detachments and rules around Command Points and such that got bolted on are still there.

    They're still pushing NEW!Marines full steam ahead, but a few older model ranges got some love....Plastic Sister of Battle Units got released after decades of never seeing the light of day. The Adeptus Mechanicus seems to be seeing a bunch of new units. New books tend to bump off a lot of old units, but some are brought back in from Index or Forgeworld sources as Legends units, even if models aren't being made, so you can use some of your old models too.

    TL;DR
    GW will constantly change shit to nerf your stuff so you buy more newer more expensive shit, they will shill armies they think folks want and leave armies folks actually want to languish for decades. They've just gotten FASTER at it now that they list units online and constantly update them.
     
  27. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker, Rookie Proofreader

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    Ruleswise, it's much the same as the previous (8th) edition. They've changed some things to try and cut down on 'soup' lists with multiple armies, mostly by changing the way you earn Command Points - Instead of gaining them from detachments, you start with 12 and have to spend them on detachments (the Warlord's detachment basically gets a free refund,) plus gaining one a turn. Also, Overwatch is now a Strategem so you can only do it once a turn ( :p Guess too many melee army players complained...)

    For specific armies, both Imperial and Chaos space marines got tweaked, mostly by giving all of them 2 wounds base (3 for terminators). It makes older-style marines and Chaos competitive with the Primaris, basically. A lot of Imperial weapons (and by extension, chaos equivalents) also got tweaked, like Flamers getting bumped to 12" range and d6 'shots' - most weapons got more shots and more consistent damage output. Old Imperial Marine characters now get new models by 'crossing the Rubicon Primaris', turning them into Primaris-ised versions.

    Lore wise, the biggest thing is slight retcons to Guilliman's crusade being shorter (a couple of decades instead of a couple of centuries,) more stable routes across the warp rifts stretching across the galaxy, more Psykers are being born than ever before and Necrons getting a push by revealing they have warp-nullifying pylons all over the galaxy that are starting to come online. Naturally, that's bad for the species that actually need the warp to live. Oh, and the last Silent King of the Necrons has returned from an extragalactic trip, bringing more new models more aggressive behaviour to the Necrons.

    There's a lot more, but the fandom has had plenty to say about it, both for and against, so you'll have no trouble finding out more. The Rollout got bollixed a bit by Covid, though, slowing down releases and Codex updates to a crawl...
     
  28. Assblaster5000

    Assblaster5000 Know what you're doing yet?

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    It's certainly going to be an... interesting affair to watch GW try and worm their way out of hitting The Necron's "I win" button with all of that. Honestly all I could see giving them the slightest pause at this point are things like Big E getting off the Throne fully healed or the Nids getting the entirety of the Hive Fleets into the galaxy, and even both of those at once would likely only slow them down by a few centuries at most.
     
  29. Cherico

    Cherico Well worn.

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    things is the idea of creating hero's means your no longer the 'hero' archtype you are now the mentor archtype and that is a completely different kind of story that a lot of people are not used to telling.
     
    AngelicKnight. likes this.
  30. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker, Rookie Proofreader

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    After reading up on the Pylons, it's not a total "I WIn' button. The Pylons are mostly built on Necron Tombworlds first and foremost.

    Some critical planets elsewhere have them, like fallen Cadia and the region now known as the Pariah Nexus (where the Imperium first encountered 'the Stilling', the Pylons' effect.) Abaddon's Black Crusades often targetted worlds with them as one of their objectives, in order to tear them down and spread the power of Chaos.

    The Necrons have to build them elsewhere before they can do their thing. Which is the Szarekhan Dynasty's (that of the Silent King themself) big plan. And naturally, the races who own those planets will have objections. But the Necrons are patient. They have nothing but time. And in time, they will win (in their view.)

    And on a WTR note, I wonder if any of this is happening offscreen in P'aul's story... Given Mr Zoat's thoughts on recent 40k stuff, I'm betting it's not, or is a long way off in the timeline.
     
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