1. Due to issues with external spam filters, QQ is currently unable to send any mail to Microsoft E-mail addresses. This includes any account at live.com, hotmail.com or msn.com. Signing up to the forum with one of these addresses will result in your verification E-mail never arriving. For best results, please use a different E-mail provider for your QQ address.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. For prospective new members, a word of warning: don't use common names like Dennis, Simon, or Kenny if you decide to create an account. Spammers have used them all before you and gotten those names flagged in the anti-spam databases. Your account registration will be rejected because of it.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Since it has happened MULTIPLE times now, I want to be very clear about this. You do not get to abandon an account and create a new one. You do not get to pass an account to someone else and create a new one. If you do so anyway, you will be banned for creating sockpuppets.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. If you wish to change your username, please ask via conversation to tehelgee instead of asking via my profile. I'd like to not clutter it up with such requests.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Due to the actions of particularly persistent spammers and trolls, we will be banning disposable email addresses from today onward.
    Dismiss Notice
  6. We have added another rule, please check the Rules post for more information.
    Dismiss Notice

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

Loading...
  1. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    8,402
    Likes Received:
    330,686
    Thank you, corrected.
    Without wishing to get too far into pony racial politics, Alicorns are Earth Ponies, Unicorn Ponies and Pegasus Ponies.

    Though isn't it interesting that the first episode refers to them as 'winged unicorns'?
    Given how Celestia likes to suppress information, I'm not sure that Sunset has actually heard of the changelings.
    She's still not entirely used to having wiggly worms attached to her monkey hooves.
    Sunset left Equestria as a student, and hasn't actually encountered that much weird stuff in Equestria outside of books. And she mostly focused her studies on pony magic.
    Thank you, corrected.
    Oh, no. She's not a sociopath.
     
  2. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    5,420
    Likes Received:
    30,337
    Fine, borderline-sociopath then.

    Her actions do suggest a lot of sociopathic tendencies.
     
  3. Prince Charon

    Prince Charon Just zis guy, you know?

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    7,176
    Likes Received:
    24,262
    I suppose that depends on how you look at it (and on what actions definitely took place on Earth 16). If you're referring only to stuff she did in this story, of course, then it's fortunate that we can directly ask the author, because that seems not to have been his intention. This may be a difference in ethics between reader and author, though.
     
    Cuchulin likes this.
  4. Pinklestia

    Pinklestia Experienced.

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Messages:
    2,974
    Likes Received:
    7,610
    Order magic should help yo undo transforms... Or.make the transformations stable... who knows with magic?
     
    Senevri and Prince Charon like this.
  5. DrThoth

    DrThoth Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    1,751
    The Genomorphs came through the portal as changelings, was Sunset just not around for that at all? Seeing what happens to a synthetic novel species seems like something she'd want to monitor.
     
    Bramble Thorn and Handlewithcare like this.
  6. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare I trust you know where the happy button is?

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    Messages:
    803
    Likes Received:
    7,452
    It depends a bit on what backstory Zoat is going with, but afaik Arion encountered (and built) Shizo tech in his time.

    He should know that non-magical threats are an issue as well.

    Unless he thinks the Unmen are caused by a curse or something?
     
    Cuchulin likes this.
  7. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    8,402
    Likes Received:
    330,686
    Like what? Serious question. She told Grayven why she started killing people, and it was self-preservation. Her emotional reactions to other characters are relatively normal. I though, anyway. I mean, she's not particularly nice to people she doesn't know, but in human history that's pretty normal.
    I... Don't think she was there? Alright, she's probably heard of them by now, but she doesn't have any details.
     
  8. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    5,420
    Likes Received:
    30,337
    Turning people into animals and enslaving them.

    Lacking any regret or remorse for any lives she has destroyed.
     
    Bramble Thorn and Cuchulin like this.
  9. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    8,402
    Likes Received:
    330,686
    Do you think that all historical slave owners were sociopaths?
     
  10. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    5,420
    Likes Received:
    30,337
    No, but it doesn't exactly change my mind that Circe has some sociopathic tendencies, even if according to you she's not a full blown sociopath.
     
  11. DougA

    DougA Getting some practice in, huh?

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    23
    Also, ANCIENT GREECE. Morality, even ethics were totally different, in too many different ways than we can count. There were actually several different kinds of slave, with different words for each, including penal slaves, for criminal behaviour...usually for a fixed term, not permanent. And war captives, who were treated with some respect. And other kinds, too, just read Salamis by Turtledove, he goes into it in that series a bit. Basically, have to judge her by the morals and standards of her time, which were radically different from ours.

    Jason's trip to steal the golden fleece from another country was completely ethical...by classic Grecian standards.
     
  12. Flightless Man

    Flightless Man Know what you're doing yet?

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2020
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    581
    We don't have to judge her by ancient rules. She's alive now and a part of society( If she stayed on her island and only transformed the travellers who invade/land on her island, then yes we could judge her by ancient standards. But she sings in Vegas.). if in 3'000 years she can't adapt to new morals and standards, she hasn't kept up with advancement. When a grandparent is casually rascist, yes we go they are from a different time and they don't mean it the same way (generally because of the age and mental condition, we don't correct them.), but they are still wrong and Circe has all her mental faculties.

    You only get the "from another era" pass, when you retire from society and are not keeping up because your going to die soon/your brain is degrading.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021
    Ngamer11, Prince Charon, Ardy and 3 others like this.
  13. Bramble Thorn

    Bramble Thorn Verified Silhouette

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2015
    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    1,524
    Zoat, you are kind of being fucked up here.

    Slave owners at least had a level of removal from their actions, and at least they were not doing the initial enslavement. And as far as I know, none of them, used magic to go from metaphorical dehumanisation to literal dehumanisation by giving those they enslaved animal features.

    I agree calling bad people sociopaths is a scummy 'virtue signaling' way to gain internet points, and Darko should cut that crap out?
    But wasn't it you said that if you were dropped back into the revolutionary war period, would have no problem killing Washington as a traitorous slaver? Think of Circe as Washington, plus she didn't inherit the slaves, she did the enslaving herself buy right of conquest, and then used magic to physically mutilated the slaves to less human forms so they wouldn't be able to escape their lot easily. She is useful, and what is happening now is more important then what happened in the past (and let's not forget that past was as recent as last year IIRC), but that doesn't mean her actions were really defensible, just pardonable.
     
    ValkarianHunter, Doccer and Ardy like this.
  14. Stsword

    Stsword I trust you know where the happy button is?

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2017
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    4,931
    When we saw Atlantis, it showed the Atlantean guards using laser rifles and that Starro was cryogenically frozen in the Atlantean Science Center which is run by the Atlantean Royal Science Advisor Vulko.

    Vulko, who was a good enough scientist that he helped create the cure for the Starro-tech.

    And in the tie-in comic Kaldur revealed that Atlanteans were turned into water breathers by a combination of technology and magic. So YJ Atlantis had genetic engineering thousands of years ago.

    And according to Word of Greg Kaldur's Waterbearers are technomagic.

    Despite that, Zoat made his version of Atlantis magic based.

    So unless Zoat has a story point in mind about Atlantis used to be high technology but abandoned it for magic, I suspect that Zoat will remain consistent with his depiction of Atlantis as a magic based culture.
     
    Cuchulin likes this.
  15. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    8,402
    Likes Received:
    330,686
    No, there were plenty of slave owners who were directly involved in impressing their slaves. I'm not limiting myself to the transatlantic trade here.
    Middle Eastern slave traders routinely castrated their male stock. Is that close enough?
    I'm not trying to say that she's a good and moral person. She isn't. I'm saying that she's not a sociopath, because she is capable of forming emotional attachments.
     
  16. DrThoth

    DrThoth Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    1,751
    People seem to forget how technical and pedantic Zoat can be; maybe that should be part of the FAQ-that-no-one-reads (if it already is and I forgot, I suppose that just validates the joke even further).
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  17. nick012000

    nick012000 Experienced.

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,217
    Likes Received:
    4,607
    Also, IIRC the Un-Men were originally created by Anton Arcane using the power of The Rot. It's entirely plausible that without using the power of life-attuned magical energies like The Red, The Green, or The White Light, reversing their condition might not be possible.
     
    Cuchulin and Prince Charon like this.
  18. Threadmarks: The Other Half (part 14)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    8,402
    Likes Received:
    330,686
    12th July 2012
    13:05 GMT -8

    FACE ME!
    Iname just runs outside, but I'm limited to more mortal speeds. A hush tube takes me out into the car park in front of the main building, my visor over my eyes as I search for my target and my god powers fully activated, reaching out across my ally's home territory. Whoever this is will have to choose between fighting me directly or accepting being weakened by the Source.

    Seven metres away to my left Knockout tanks a blast of luminous cyan fire on the shield she grudgingly accepted from my armoury.

    "I will tear your liver from your chest, wizard!"

    Now where is the blight-?

    Lighting flashes out of nowhere, biting at my armour. But the wizard hasn't appeared in person. My challenge is unanswered, and the blast which previously scythed through entire buildings patters off my armour like spring rain. If it was being manually cast then it would only be a little weaker, so-. Automatic?

    "Tcetorp Nevyarg morf eht pu-wollof!"

    Huh?

    A rainbow beam like the one that nullified my construct monsters flies at me, only to be struck by a beam from-. Zatara's amulet. The beam fades away, only the weakest residues carrying on to strike my left gauntlet. 'Protect Grayven…'

    "Giovanni!" I draw my daiklave. "Good to see you. Whatever brings you here?"

    "Arion." He drifts a little closer, carefully watching the space around us. "Or as he would have originally been called in his native Atlantis, Ahri'ahn."

    "Arion? William Knightley?" I frown. "I interviewed him for Larissa's school when I was trying to help her find teachers, the man's a tit. He's nothing like powerful enough to do this."

    Zatara raises his eyebrows. "William.. Knightley?" I nod. "Then at least I know the victim's name. I was referring to the original Arion, not the man who unwisely began using his name."

    Oh. "Ahri'ahn, the founder of the Atlantean school of magic Ahri'ahn?"

    "The very same."

    Huh. Kind of surprised we're doing this well. Though… Circe herself demonstrates that there's a limit to how good a magician attached to their human physiology can get. And she had access to an appreciable chunk of Hecate's power prior to giving it up. Nabu and Jebediah have elemental order, Klarion and Company have elemental chaos making them more than they were. I have a fragment of the Source. Ahri'ahn was famous for not having any interest in making any sort of bargain with an elemental creature. And if he hasn't been keeping up with modern thaumaturgy then he won't be knowledgeable enough to use work arounds in the way that Sunset does. So he's probably dangerous but not ridiculously s-.

    Space… Ripples, and then the air surges past me at skin-scouring speed! Iname dashes away, trying to outrun it while Knockout just braces and Zatara clutches his amulet.

    "A weak-."

    Yeah, it doesn't really hurt but there's no way he'll be able to hear me until the noise has died down a little. I fold my arms behind my back, Darkseid-style. Five, six-. There we go.

    "A weak effort, Ahri'ahn. Considering your legend I expected better. Or were all of your battle magics cast against defenceless civilians, even in the days of antemergerentur Atlantis? I don’t recall my Atlantean colleagues mentioning you ever fighting an equal, but I had assumed that was just due to the gulf of time. Is this really all you can do?"

    Zatara grits his teeth.

    "Grayven."

    "Method to my madness, Zatara. All sorts of things happen when you don't play ball with a New God." I spread my arms out a little. "Want to try shooting me again? It'll be even less effective this time, then less still and still."

    I make a show of walking in a circle, but I'm watching out quite carefully. My goggles revealing nothing means that in a very real sense that he's not here. He's not dodging us by being invisible or intangible. Remote viewing is perfectly possible, but countering that would require highly sophisticated magic of a sort that I'll have to rely on Sunset or Circe for.

    "Don't make me use school yard insults. We'll both feel the lesser for it."

    There's a peculiar waft of sea spray from the roof of the entry gate guard station, and my goggles show me all sorts of interesting information about exactly how he's interacting with local space. I'll share it with Sunset when things are a little calmer. A moment passes and then a man in early modern and decidedly non-Atlantean dress precipitates out of his portal. And when I say non-Atlantean, I mean neither historical Atlantean nor modern Atlantean.

    So I say the first thing that comes into my head.

    "What's with the clothes?"

    "Alien."

    No trace of an Atlantean accent. He's been speaking English for a while, well enough to inject enough contempt into the word to make it clear how he feels about me. Alright then.

    "By the authority invested in me by the American Federal Government, I am placing you under arrest."

    He doesn't even bother to raise an eyebrow.

    "Do you honestly expect me to comply?"

    "No. No. But they like it if I try. What was this all about, anyway?"

    "It's about you disgusting creatures using my work." He holds out his right hand and a book I.. don't recognise teleports into his hand. "My actual work. You.. create these abominations and celebrate it. You're like children proudly standing next to a shit-filled potty."

    "Whaw, modern Atlanteans sure get you wrong. So… You want every un-man dead and their records expunged?"

    "And you and your lackeys dead, and that order cultist as well."

    "Excuse us if we don't try-" The tron lines on my armour switch from yellow to orange as I focus my mind on my revulsion at his wantonly destructive attitude. "-to take you alive, then."

    Knockout charges and the water foam rises again, Iname's scythe passing through the area he occupied-

    "Agh!"

    -a moment before with no resistance. I turn-. Shit!

    A mosquito-like insectoid has pounced on Zatara, proboscis punching through his magic shield and stabbing-

    My construct ram hits it a moment later, ramming it through the exterior wall of the Uncorporation building and back inside.

    -him in the.. leg. He clutches the wound, staggering for a moment before collapsing to the ground.

    Scan.

    Non-human matter detected.

    Iname dashes up, looking at him with concern.

    "Master-?"

    "Get him to Sunset. I'll clear up the rest of the insectoids."

    "What about the wizard, Master?"

    My face darkens.

    "We'll have to go after him later."
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
    Sockmonkey, foveros, Genju and 131 others like this.
  19. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    8,402
    Likes Received:
    330,686
    Sigh.

    Added.
     
  20. Idkusername

    Idkusername Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,325
    Likes Received:
    9,851
    Quoted for invisible text.
     
  21. DrThoth

    DrThoth Not too sore, are you?

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    1,751
    Typo or deliberate obscure inside joke/reference?

    I wonder if this is just a reference to Venturian biomancers helping Cranius out, or something more significant.

    Maybe this series of events is how Zatara becomes Awakened, accepting the limits of his current capabilities.
     
  22. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    5,420
    Likes Received:
    30,337
    Ahh, magic fight.

    'brings'

    'closer'

    Well in your story.

    In the comics, both pre and post Flashpoint, he didn't really seem to have that issue.

    Not that it helped him much, especially in the n52 with Poseidon.

    Or the accent Atlanteans from his time had was very different.

    Maybe something Cranius got from Atlantis.
     
  23. Vaermina

    Vaermina Versed in the lewd.

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    2,012
    Likes Received:
    4,972
    An almost complete defeat for Grayven.
     
  24. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare I trust you know where the happy button is?

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2019
    Messages:
    803
    Likes Received:
    7,452
    Well, Arion's a disappointment.

    I had hoped for someone more epic than this.
     
    ChestBurster likes this.
  25. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    5,420
    Likes Received:
    30,337
    It has been just one chapter, so if we are going to see his power then it'll probably happen in the following chapters.

    And remember, renegade used that challenge power of his to weaken him.

    If he'd been allowed to use his full power then I think he would have given a better fight.
     
    ChestBurster, Ardy and Prince Charon like this.
  26. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    982
    Likes Received:
    15,477
    Heh, best way to shut down his magic. Force the Narrative into a face-to-face confrontation, or face his attacks becoming weaker and weaker. Arion the Elder's got a tough choice.

    Once he shows himself, anyway. Unfortunately, Arion the Elder seems to be the sort to avoid direct assaults upon his person...

    Man, it's interesting to see what gets noticed from perspective to perspective... Even the timelines are a little asynchronous...

    Welp, the second-squishiest on the battlefield has arrived. Iname being the first, unless her New Godhood has increased her toughness that much. Zatara at least has magical protections...

    And there it is. Now Grayven knows what and who he's dealing with. Time to turn his natural charisma to the matter.

    Yes, such a wise choice to 'borrow' the name of a powerful wizard of unknown mortality status. Second only to using the name of Gods, and besmirching them in the process, in terms of foolishness.

    Nice to have it said out loud once and for all. Not that we didn't know already, but information is power, and Grayven uses power well.

    And people say I tempt Murphy? Arion the Elder is responsible for the spell that reshaped Atlanteans into an aquatic species (or at least took credit for it.) The way Atlanteans speak of him suggests a considerable amount of power to back up the legends.

    A simple wind-blade spell? Weak sauce, Arion. You've seen them shrug off lightning and prismatic bolts. Why would you expect anything else to work? Unless he plans to make a dramatic appearance.

    And there we go. Grayven's best talent: pissing the enemy off with words. And an angry enemy becomes a stupid enemy...

    Don't play along with the Narrative, and the Narrative turns against you hard. Grayven's demonstrating that Arion's magic is having little effect, so it will get weaker. Such is the nature of New God combat...

    Oh, please. Arion is arrogant enough that he wouldn't feel insulted, except by the breadth of your vocabulary...

    I'll admit, that style of garb (roughly 15th-16th century or thereabouts?) does convey a measure of class. It also says 'I'm too old-fashioned to update my look.' Presumably he's dressed as he did the last time he walked the world...

    :rolleyes: ...Goddammit, Grayven, all that style, fizzled away for a half-hearted joke.

    Or he's using a very good translation spell. Which would likely be entirely within his capabilities...

    "Who is this 'American', and why should I care?" Yeah, I bet he doesn't consider any other nation but Atlantis (specifically Poseidonis, I assume) to count for the term...

    Makes it all legal like if Grayven kills him 'while resisting arrest'. He might have to explain himself later, but Arion won't be around to gainsay him...

    Why stop there? Why not every non-pureblooded-Atlantean person on Earth? Or would he be satisfied if they 'accepted their proper place in the world' under his rule? Besides the Un-Men and such... They just skeeve him out, eh?

    Easier said then done, especially if he, as Loki might say, has made himself quite hard to kill.

    Oh, that's not good. Not good at all, is it?

    Time to sever and regrow, then! Unless the Insectoids were designed to foil such logical tricks...

    Let's hope Circe can unfuck this, then, or the League will be pissed.

    Probably knows he's too valuable to just kill outright. Since that's presumably the easiest way to prevent the changes.

    Which is where we get to the end of yesterday's chapter, then...

    Let's hope he doesn't get up to too much mischief in the meantime. I can only imagine how pissed he is at Atlantis.

    Well, that went... Poorly. Arion the Elder fled unharmed. Zatara in danger of being converted by the Insectoid plague. God knows how many of said Insectoids still running loose. Not a good day for the Renegade. Let's hope Zatara can be saved.


    Godspeech!
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  27. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    8,402
    Likes Received:
    330,686
    Thank you, corrected.
     
    ChestBurster and Bramble Thorn like this.
  28. Darko

    Darko Well worn.

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    5,420
    Likes Received:
    30,337
    Time for a lesson on assholery 101.

    All of which renegade has done.

    Took the name of a god and insulted a god.

    Which makes him wiser than Knightley.

    And to be fair to Knightley, all info on Arion seemed to point to him being a reasonable and benevolent man, instead of a racist lunatic, so he probably thought that the guy wouldn't have a problem with him taking his name.

    Or at least won't be bothered enough to kill him.

    It's probably the whole mystic challenge thing.

    If he wasn't being nerfed by renegade it would have probably been far more damaging.

    And it also works on allies and total strangers!

    They are kinda creepy.

    Chojin why are still with Murphy!?!?

    Assuming he is pissed.

    They may not be doing anything that he considers offensive.

    Granted the fact that Venturia is helping renegade, he may be pissed at them.
     
  29. Prince Charon

    Prince Charon Just zis guy, you know?

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    7,176
    Likes Received:
    24,262
    'Before being plunged into the water.' Hadn't known that there was an actual word for that (well, mostly), but it makes sense that ReneGrayven would use it.

    Given that being very pedantic in your specific manner is what got you in trouble on SV.com, I'm surprised the warning wasn't added to the FAQ sooner.
     
  30. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    8,402
    Likes Received:
    330,686
    Have I mentioned that my hair is hair and that my toenails are toenails? Did I need to?
     
Loading...