With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

If this is Golden Boy, but lacks the antagonistic relationship John and he had in the comics, then maybe John trusts him more and gave him the dust as well as told him about Paul.

Either that, or he and John are enemies and Quinn just took it from him.

 

"We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill..."

 

I feel like Paul is going overboard on stealth to such a degree that he starts to become less stealthy. He is maintaining a level of stealth such that powerful sensors right next to him can't detect him when traveling through space.

You might think that the more stealth the less likely to be detected, but Paul is already unable to be detected by any methods he thinks the Reach might have such that the most likely thing to detect him is an unknown that he hasn't thought of. This means that going slower in order to go even more overkill on the methods he has thought of just gives more time for him to be detected by methods he isn't prepared for. Like say a psychic, mage or whatever other weird thing there is in the universe detecting that "something feels sneaky".

 

Thank you, corrected.

Few can.

 

I don't think that's it, either. From what I can tell, Golden Boy is a John whose life has gone perfectly. He has power, love, and happiness, to the point where I don't even no why he would care about Constantine at all. Golden Boy should be stronger than Quinn has shown himself to be, and have no reason to pretend to be Quinn, because he's already happy with his life as it is. He doesn't need to become a lord of order, and even if he wanted to, he could do that on his own Earth.

If Golden Boy and Constantine were to fight over the helmet, the only chance of such a confrontation going undetected would be if Golden Boy snuck up on Constantine. Not impossible, but very strange and unlikely.
The means and motive just don't seem to be there.

 

I don't remember the comic all that well, but Golden Boy, who isn't exactly an alternate John but rather John's twin who survived in his universe, may have been taking John's luck for himself and that's why he would care about John.

He and Constantine may have a better relationship here, so John probably thought it was safe to give him the Helmet.

Everything is just speculation until Zoat finally writes what is up with Quinn.

 

A reminder: Nax's people have an ability to, for want of a better term, split individual parts of a living being's physiology off without causing damage to said living being. Like vivisection without the pain and the blood and the screaming...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Oh, don't be a science snob. If you could do that, you'd take full advantage of it, processes behind it bedamned.

Gee, you'd think Tad would want to make friends via extreme science? Intellectual peers who he can enjoy being around?

Evidently his Sivana blood makes him just that good. <shudder.> Flashbacks to the TTS review of 'Inquisitor'...

...Oh, since she's not doing it by pure science alone, she's not worth your time, Tad?

Ugh. Maybe mention this to Thaddeus senior? Let him knock a bit of sense into that big-brained head? "You do not pass up useful assets, boy!"

Maybe if he has reason to improve them he'd bother. Like, say, working on amazing new weapon designs with a certain alien babe weapons designer.

...So, are her parents atypical of her species, or just not interested in hanging around with the rest of the mad scientists? I wonder...

"No. Home sounds boring. There's plenty of strange and unusual subjects to study here."

Yes, but your homeworld had a rather bad experience with a Lantern, and have a raging hate-on for them now...

Still betting against that likelihood. Her parents might just have been really bad.

Hey, if she doesn't want to, talking her into it is going to be nearly impossible. Let it drop, OL.

So, let the sneaking mission begin. Hope you've got a sneaking suit handy, OL. <Metal Gear intensifies...>

...Ah, right, Lotta's basically lost her sense of humour through disuse.

To be fair, I doubt Phil's had much time for humour in his career...

Yeah, I can't imagine it's easy. I mean, the Reach might not be paying attention on an easy post like this, but better to be paranoid then dead again.

That can be fixed with a few well-placed low-speed crumbler shots on the way there. What with Isaac Newton being the deadliest sunnuvabitch in space...

The tech is probably used to people walking out while cloaked... Rude as that would be...

Indeed. Like the book says, Space is big. Anything closely-packed enough as a fictional asteroid field is shown to be would soon condense into a solid clump thanks to gravity.

Though if the fleet's occupants are as mind-whammied as you think they are, there's not going to be much to see, even up close...

Probably a lot less interested in your help. Or you'd be patrolling Maltusian space as a 'peace-keeping force'...

Don't forget the 'boldly coming' with alien ladies. Something most Star Trek captains were talented at... (Or the alien fellows, as Janeway showed...)

Hmm... Odd that they've left these fleets unguarded, with not even a Reach commissar to keep them friendly. Can you be sure they're hostile? OR perhaps they believe they're loyal and true citizens of the Reach empire...

I'm sure Dox has other teams running their own investigations in the more distant sectors. Their chances are lower though, because they're not the protagonist...

Curiosity's a sneaky bitch, isn't it?

Time to pull up a game of solitaire on the HUD, then.

This is getting very interesting, honestly. All of OL's antagonism towards the Reach is based on his metaknowledge. I mean, I doubt the local Reach are any better, but any chance to bring back their victims from extinction should be worth the chance. The key part is working out if that's possible... Hence this little trip. Though with an episode title like 'Onslaught', I get the feeling this sneaking mission will end about as well as any of Solid Snake's...

 

Oh there is pleasing the Mad just... it tends to be strange and sometimes horrific.

Now a Mad Scientist? Either give them a challenge or let them ramble/brag. That keeps them less angry.

 

Actually the pain and screaming still exists.

Shut up you giant red chicken!

If Nax's species did horrible things to their own people then she may also be shunned.

Paul has gone to second base with the Spider Queen.

And I think he engaged in an extremely intimate psychic connection with M'gan.

 

Is this the slowest trip OL has taken under his own power?

 

There is also a lot of strange things going on with Constantine. First, he gave the helmet away. Rationally, it's not something that Constantine could ever really use. He's too chaotic. But Constantine isn't a rational person. So the idea of him just handing it to Quinn, without something big and crazy happening, is strange. Then there are the other strange things going on with Quinn, as mentioned above. No one could really force Constantine to give up the helmet, dust, and personal information, as a lord of chaos is not so easily forced. Especially if it's Constantine. So barring a perfect sneak attack, the situation is strange.

Then there is the fact that Constantine hasn't made any sort of major appearance in the last year. He wasn't there when the angels attacked. None of the places the angels attacked seemed to have a recent connection to Constantine. He also wasn't there when the Sheeda attacked. I doubt he'd have had anything more important to do during either event, but there wasn't a trace of him. He's either tangled himself up in some trouble, or just isn't on Earth. He had an excuse when he was weak, but he's a lord of chaos now.

The last person whose had contact with Constantine was Quinn, and all that stuff is weird. I also find it strange how Paul hasn't even bothered putting much effort looking into Constantine, despite multiple people asking him if he knew where Constantine was, and Paul himself commenting on the strange nature of Constantine's disappearance multiple times since he got back from Vega. One should not misplace a lord of chaos, especially when that lord of chaos is a Constantine. The most Paul has done is some light indirect searching, and asking Angelica, Doctor Mist, and Quinn to look out for him. All it would really take from Paul is a day of wave form scanning for high concentrations of chaos magic, and should that fail, there is probably something wrong. It's not even that hard for Paul anymore, and the scan is unblockable and undetectable, as far as Paul knows.

Finally, there is the Demon Constantine. He was found to be missing shortly after the first appearance of Quinn, and has never been seen since. No one even knows when he escaped, although it would be strange if the guard had been impersonating him for more than a week.. Just like the original, the Demon keeping quiet is really strange. He didn't show up during the stuff in hell, and Richard Simpson didn't ever mention him, despite having been on the lookout for John Constantine. It's doubtful that the Demon Constantine could have escaped so cleanly by himself, so he most likely had some sort of help getting out from Belle Reve. If someone did help him, I doubt it was out of the kindness of their own heart. I don't think any of his demon acquaintances would have put that much effort into helping him, even if they did owe him. And if someone broke him out with plans to use him, they must either be hiding him or playing the long game. Still, something suspicious is going on, and if I had to guess, it probably has to do with what is going on with Constantine.

 

Zoat already mentioned that Constantine has had trouble mastering his new powers.

He gave up the Helmet because he couldn't handle the conflicting magics, but he's also having trouble with the chaos part.

He's most likely hiding somewhere trying to gain full control of his powers because otherwise he may either go crazy or blow up, probably harming a lot of people.

That's probably why he hasn't been involved all that much.

Constantine could also most likely hide from Paul if he wanted to. And he may also be in another planet or even universe.

As for the Demon Constantine.

Paul talked to Waller and told her that he may have been able to summon a demon to help him.

Demons feel obligated to pay debts, so if he helped said demon then he may have called in a favor.

Or he's helping the demon with something else.

 

Shouldn't the ring translator take care of that?

As for Constantine, we know OL keeps saying he's going to look into it - maybe he keeps doing it and time gets reset, or something like that?

 

Or John cast a spell that makes people ignore him.

Or Paul is just absent-minded.

 

"are a no" -> "are no"

 

Not even close. He might be crawling by space standards, but atmosphere standards I expect he is faster then anything on earth that doesn't wear a costume. Hate to have to put the qualifier, but earth is crazy.

 

Bit late, but other than Perfect FEV basically being "everyone gets to be Captain America" . . . Ghoul stuff seems to come down to genetics.

Some people turn into Ghouls when exposed to otherwise lethal amounts of radiation. Some people just die of radiation poisoning. Sometimes people deliberately try to become Ghouls and only succeed in killing themselves.

Supposedly all Ghouls will eventually go Feral at some point, but socialization and avoiding continued exposure to radiation will delay when it happens. Of course, this in itself is variable given the existence of an intelligent Glowing Ghoul like Jason Bright. But radiation isn't purely beneficial for most Ghouls.

Oh, and some people are just naturally immune to radiation altogether. For some weird reason they're commonly members of the Children of the Atom. Though for the members who aren't immune they have their very own extra special homemade Radaway given their love of living in radioactive areas.

 

The ring doesn't translate colours, though it would make sure that someone unfamiliar with the context knew what they mean.

Thank you, corrected.

 

I have had the thought that the situation with Constantine is more of a Sheogorath/Jyggalag situation.

 

just a couple more genocides and he’ll match Janeway though

 

Before getting the helmet, I don't believe that Constantine was showing any trouble controlling his chaos powers. Just some mild changes in behavior towards being more like Klarion, like how an orange ring makes you act more greedy. He might have just needed to take a year off for training or practice, but with all the other weird stuff going on around the people named John, I doubt it.

As for Demon Constantine, he could have gotten help from another demon. But most demons aren't too smart. Whatever helped him would need to be a master of stealth and magic, who either owed Demon Constantine a big favor, unlikely given the kind of friends Demon Constantine would make, or really needed him for something.

My personal theory is that Constantine didn't actually choose to give up the helmet. What if Constantine did decide to do whatever it would take to become a lord of order and chaos? It wouldn't be the craziest thing he's ever done, and he would have been in a bad mindset from having exposed himself to large quantities of conflicting magic. He could have wanted the power, and also wanted to prove to the world and the forces of order and chaos that there wasn't anything he couldn't take.

So, what would John need to do? His main problem is with order. Constantine understands chaos, both personally and in terms of magical knowledge. He has no problem there. But while Constantine might have the magical knowledge of order, he is just too chaotic to make any sort of personal connection there. And after becoming a lord of chaos, it's too late for him to start. He'd have to risk giving up his power over chaos, then spend a great deal of time finding balance in himself, before finally attempting to become a lord of order and chaos again, if the mantles hadn't already been taken. Risky business, with no guarantee of success.

So how else could Constantine hope to master both? Well, luckily for Constantine, he only has half a soul. The half soul that Constantine has is already connected to chaos as a lord of chaos. So, all Constantine needs is to get the other half, connect it to order, and stick it back on himself. Then, he should either explode, or become a lord of order and chaos.

That means that Constantine would have to sneak into Belle Reve, break out the Demon Constantine, turn him back into an orderly human, and make him start trying to become a lord of order. None of that is actually impossible. Constantine certainly has the power and tricks to do so. There have also been two cases so far of demons changing their nature, so it wouldn't be so strange for Demon Constantine to become bound to the forces of order. Demon Constantine's base nature's would have to be massively overwritten, as he is as chaotically inclined as Constantine, but Constantine could theoretically do it.

This is the clearest path for Constantine to take towards becoming a lord of order and chaos. It's also insane, which fits. It explains the disappearance of Demon Constantine and the appearance of Quinn, although the time frame is a bit iffy there, depending on when the Demon Constantine escaped. It explains the connection between Constantine and Quinn, because they would be working together, or Constantine's controlling him, so they could share resources and information. As for where Constantine is during all this, he could be recovering from overusing his powers to make Quinn, or he could be training his chaos powers, or he could just be keeping out of the way.

Lastly, I also think something strange is going on with Paul. He really should be putting more effort into finding Constantine. Of course, if Constantine didn't want to be found, then his mixture of order, chaos, and synchronicity magic could have been used to put in place a large, subtle magical field to disuade others from searching for him. It could even blend into the background magic of the world, and become undetectable by normal means.

If anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd be interested in hearing them.

 

One thing I forgot to mention is that Quinn does not look like Constantine. He was described as Constantine after rehab and a lot of therapy and working out. So basically more orderly Constantine. If Constantine was going to rewrite Demon Constantine into being Quinn, he would probably change his appearance in such a way.

 

You're seriously overthinking this.

We know after Paul talked to Waller that the Demon Constantine was around when Quinn was around.

Constantine has a habit of forming connections that help him when he calls them, so the Demon may also do that.

That thing about John using magic to hide may be true, or Paul is just absentminded and chose to respect John's privacy.

When they last saw each other John told him to lose his number.

No offense, but you're theory is extremely convoluted.

 

Probably. The main idea was, working off of the information currently available, and assuming that Constantine did not want to give up on being a lord of order and chaos, how could the current situation be explained. If anyone has a better explanation for this information and assumption, I'd like to hear it.

Other than the assumption that Constantine still wants to be a lord of chaos and order, there is the case that he gave up on it, and everything is as it seems. Quinn got the helmet from him, even though the relationship between Quinn and Constantine is still sketchy. The Demon Constantine is unconnected, and is off doing his own thing. And Constantine could only be in trouble if he decided to do something crazy, like pick a fight with a super hard hitter. Other than that, he would just be keeping his head down, for no apparent reason.

Then there is the case of Quinn or someone else having forcefully taken the helmet from Constantine. Super unlikely to me, because any such struggle would have been at least noticed, disregarding super organized ambushes.

Of course, something totally different could be going on, but in that case, we lack the information necessary to make any sort of prediction.

 

"About two hours ago, when Metropolis called us about taking in another demon. Doctor Mist is trying to work out how he managed it, given how one of the few things we know for certain is that his suppression chains were working properly."

"How do you know that?"

"Because one of the guards was wearing them in his cell." She growls quietly under her breath. "Thinking he was Constantine."

It would be really strange if that guard was in there for any large quantity of time. Someone would have noticed. Other than this, we don't know when Demon Constantine disappeared. Maybe Mr Zoat could clarify, but it might not be impossible for him to have been out for a month plus.

 

He's closer to Q anyways.

 

Except that Zoat basically uses the post-crisis canon for every character where it doesnt explicitly contradict S1 and S2 YJ canon. To a degree where it unnerved Constantine how much Paul knew about his exploits.

Why the shift for Blackfire? As far as I am aware she is the only character to significantly diverge from her post-crisis version.

Honestly the whole obsession with recruiting the sisters was weird. Especially given how ill-suited Starfire is to the Orange Light. To me it undermines how difficult it is supposed to be to manage.

 

Godspeech, for our invisitext-challenged brethren. Proper commentary soon.

Spoiler: Words of the Gods, Be Revealed!

 

Does it matter that Scott address Grayven by both name and title, but Grayven doesn't reciprocate?