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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Gee, shame I don't see Brahma mentioned anywhere there.


Come on, come on, can you really say that Kalpa and Brahma years aren't the sort of thing that'd go on in a comic book? Ha!

Anyways, that was just an excuse to share a little bit of neat trivia anyways, so............
 
They didnt mention the rainbow serpen3who created the universe either, but they mentioned gods of earth, which Brahmah is. Or are we to just take the real world assertions of their followers as fact here? Because it seems like that's what you're doing.
 
Mr Zoat said:
John joined the marines to get his college course funded. I imagine that architects are a little more flexible than career marines.
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On that I wouldn't know. I've dated a marine, but not an architect.

Of course he did shut his office down, and does channel the green light....which historically tends to lead it's users to a certain level of bullheadedness.
 
Queshire said:
Eh, debatable. At best they're as old as the universe and that's only a little more than a day and a half for Brahma.
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Only if you believe their PR.
There are many ways to resolve certain contradictions, such as gods having many names, or subjective realities, but DC actually has a pretty rigid structure - potentially more so than our reality.
 
Buggy123 said:
Face it, you can't talk about the general capabilities of rings.
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Hey, all I said was that they have always been called the "Most powerful weapon in the universe."

Then I was asked for a panel of a Guardian saying it. I gave it, and others, but to my complete non-surprise, the goalpost was instantly moved.

Beyond that, a Power ring can do god damn anything the writer wants it to do.
 
Senevri said:
Only if you believe their PR.
There are many ways to resolve certain contradictions, such as gods having many names, or subjective realities, but DC actually has a pretty rigid structure - potentially more so than our reality.
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No no, we've got an even more rigid structure.
 
Ways and Means (part 5)
  • Threadmarks
    • 24th January
    03:39 GMT -8

    "One of the Controllers took a human with weak telekinetic abilities, enhanced them to near-Lantern levels and now wants them to generate data on their combat effectiveness. By killing his way through this Sector's pirate groups." John looks fairly impassive at the news. "Unfortunately, he's had basically no training and doesn't appear to really understand the complexity of the task."

    "Does he work for you?"

    "No. He's not an Orange Lantern. He also doesn't work for the Darkstars or LEGION, where I could make a metaphorical call and get him new orders. The only person he regards as having authority over him is the Controller who gave him his powers."

    John turns to Hinon. "Can you give him orders?"

    "Since I didn't build him and I don't have any formal agreement with his master, no."

    "    Why.. are you here?"

    "Hal put a redirect on the police chief's phone just in case any of his old enemies came here looking for him. And the League takes anything orange very seriously." He frowns. "Hey, weren't you supposed to be keeping watch on that Xor guy?"

    "He's looking after some suspected pirates." I hold out my left hand. "Illustres to Lantern Xor."

    A few moments pass, then a construct image of Lantern Xor appears.

    "Illustres."

    "    The man I fought is calling himself 'Effigy'. He is obeying one of the Controllers, though he isn't a formal part of our organisation. He believes that the people you rescued are affiliated with pirates."

    "Should I kill them?"

    "    Not unless they attack you with enough force to threaten you, or if you discover good evidence that they are murderers. Otherwise-. Were they Ungarans?"

    "Yes."

    "    Go to Ungara and raise the matter with their police. Ungara's judicial system is a fair one. Oh, and once you hand them off, bring the ship there as well. They'll want to examine it."

    "And if 'Effigy' attacks me or those I hold?"

    "    If that happens, notify me at the earliest opportunity. But nothing changes. Protect yourself and your charges as you think best. I would rather he be taken alive, but don't risk yourself or them to do it."

    He beats his fists against his chest. "I obey."

    "    Thank-" The image disappears. "-you."

    John nods. "Okay, but what about the rest?"

    "I have to admit, I've focused my efforts on local and galactic issues. I don't know much about this Sector. How big a problem is piracy?"

    He shakes his head. "Not much. Long-distance shipping never really picked up after Devlos Ungol was defeated."

    "Wasn't that… A hundred and fifty years ago?"

    "He was a mass-murderer whose fleet devastated entire planetary populations. Plenty of species still haven't recovered. And those that still have starships use them for trading locally, with their own colonies and outposts."

    "Those that.. still have? How do you forget how to build starships?"

    "Devlos controlled worlds by bombarding them from orbit. They didn't forget, they just lost the industry they needed. And once he left, they were more concerned about things like food and shelter. Civilian infrastructure. Ships weren't a priority."

    "And… Pirates? I know that the Black Circle are the largest unified group, but where did they come from?"

    He shrugs. "Some of them are ships from planets that couldn't support them any more. Most of them used to be part of Devlos's fleet. Abin Sur and Starkaðr got most of them, but a Space Sector has a lot of room to hide in."

    "You and Jordan never took a crack at them?"

    "Sure, when we actually knew where they were. But we never had time to just take a few years away from our other work and hunt them all down." He gives me an appraising look. "You think you can do better?"

    "I think I don't want Mister van Wyck making a mess of things. He doesn't look particularly human but I'm sure by this stage 'humanoid in weird costume' makes everyone think 'human'."

    "Actually, I don't think most places in the Sector know we exist." He glances at the sky again, though Mr van Wyck has long since vanished. "What can that 'Effigy' guy do?"

    "Did you read our report on the Burning Martian?" He nods. "Mister van Wyck can make constructs out of-."

    "No, though I can see why you would think that."     Hinon is looking at a construct image of him, her eyes narrowing as she studies it. "They aren't constructs. They appear to be made of telekinetically-excited skin. Or something like it. I would guess that Jevek created chimeric tissue -part human and part martian- and tied it into his molecular destabilisation effect. He's controlling it through telekinesis rather than emotional intent. He should have a finite volume of it, though of course he won't need to recharge from a personal lantern."

    "    So he probably can't do complex devices that actually work, has no AI support and…" I frown. "Are Maltusians telepathic?"

    "Not in the classical sense, though most of us can rearrange the matter of someone's brain precisely enough to introduce new thoughts. Why?"

    "    I didn't see a computer in his costume. I doubt that he's flying around without some sort of map…"

    "Neural program. Given how his brain was shapeshifting I'm sure it will take. I don't know how good his recall will be for new data, but I doubt that Jevek would be so incompetent as to set him loose with no direction but the starlight."

    I nod. "So we don't know what else Jevek gave him, knowledge wise, but he could be anywhere from completely ignorant of our abilities to fully briefed. His faster than light travel is slower than mine, though… I don't know how fast you are."

    "Is he telepathic?"

    I shrug. "Not that I noticed. Which is a nuisance, because I can disrupt telepathy. I haven't studied telekinesis in the same detail."

    "It's still a pain in the ass. You going after him?"

    "No. I think it would be a better use of my time to go after the pirates, given that he is merely misguided while the pirates are thieves and murderers. You?"

    "It's the middle of the night for me. If you're not about to start a war then I'm going back to bed."

    "Tomorrow? You know the Sector better than me, and I imagine that a Green Lantern will get a good deal more cooperation than I will."

    He glances at Hinon, who waves her right hand. "It would be awkward for me to directly oppose another Controller. In actual fact I'm about ready to head back to Maltus. I need to find out what else Jevek has been doing with himself."

    "Alright." John nods. "Midday. I'll meet you in the Mountain."

    "I'll look forward to working with you."
     
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    • But Paul did study telekinesis! Or at least has people who did so:
    1) Thinking Cup is a telekinesis machine. I expect at least some study to have been done into how it works
    2) There are psionic telekinesis amplifiers in GL database of technology Paul has access to. He even made Megan martian-adapted psionic amplifiers for her telekinesis. I would expect that such weapons have counters in the same database.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "Did you read our report on the Burning Martian?" He nods. "Mister van Wyck can make constructs out of-."

    "No, though I can see why you would think that."     Hinon is looking at a construct image of him, her eyes narrowing as she studies it. "They aren't constructs. They appear to be made of telekinetically-excited skin. Or something like it. I would guess that Jevek created chimeric tissue -part human and part martian- and tied it into his molecular destabilisation effect. He's controlling it through telekinesis rather than emotional intent. He should have a finite volume of it, though of course he won't need to recharge from a personal lantern."

    "    So he probably can't do complex devices that actually work, has no AI support and…" I frown. "Are Maltusians telepathic?"
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    I don't think the bolded lines are supposed to be Controller-speech Orange, given that it's Paul's words and narration.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "Hal put a redirect on the police chief's phone just in case any of his old enemies came here looking for him. And the League takes anything orange very seriously."
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    Sensible...

    "If that happens, notify me at the earliest opportunity. But nothing changes. Protect yourself and your charges as you think best. I would rather he be taken alive, but don't risk yourself or them to do it."
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    Logical orders. Defend yourself and your charges, and at least try not to kill your attacker. Nice to see he's got a handle on Xor's sense of honour.

    "Those that.. still have? How do you forget how to build starships?"
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    By being blasted into a pre-industrial age. Remember Tamaran?

    "Delvos controlled worlds by bombarding them from orbit.
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    "Devlos controlled worlds by bombarding them from orbit.

    And one he left, they were more concerned...
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    And once he left, they were more concerned...
    (Prosecutor-0 caught this one first)

    Most of them used to be part of Delvos's fleet.
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    Most of them used to be part of Devlos's fleet.
    (Tricky name to keep straight)

    "Sure, when we actually knew where they were. But we never had time to just take a few years away from our other work and hunt them all down." He gives me an appraising look. "You think you can do better?"
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    Could be a good team-building mission for some OLC Recruits in future.

    "Did you read our report on the Burning Martian?" He nods. "Mister van Wyck can make constructs out of-."
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    Miscolored text. Should be uncolored.
    (B.B Rain posted first on this.)

    "They aren't constructs. They appear to be made of telekinetically-excited skin. Or something like it.
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    ...Ew. Nasty.

    "So he probably can't do complex devices that actually work, has no AI support and…" I frown. "Are Maltusians telepathic?"
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    Miscolored orange. should be uncoloured?
    (again, B.B. Rain got in first.)

    "Not in the classical sense, though most of us can rearrange the matter of someone's brain precisely enough to introduce new thoughts. Why?"
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    Ah, that would be the 'mind-control' power mentioned in the arguments earlier.

    "Neural program. Given how his brain was shapeshifting I'm sure it will take. I don't know how good his recall will be for new data, but I doubt that Jevek would be so incompetent as to set him loose with no direction but the starlight."
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    Yes, I'm sure dumping data straight onto his brain will be conducive to long-term stability.

    "No. I think it would be a better use of my time to go after the pirates, given that he is merely misguided while the pirates are thieves and murderers. You?"
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    Hrrrm. And what happens when he goes looking for pirates only to find OL got there first? Another Kill-stealing tantrum?

    He glances at Hinon, who waves her right hand. "It would be awkward for me to directly oppose another Controller. In actual fact I'm about ready to head back to Maltus. I need to find out what else Jevek has been doing with himself."
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    And the unspoken followup: "And how badly he's screwed it up this time."

    Well, a roadtrip ahead. Jolly Cooperation for all!
     
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    Prosecutor-0 said:
    Typo here, should be "once".
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    Thank you, corrected.
    B.B. Rain said:
    I don't think the bolded lines are supposed to be Controller-speech Orange, given that it's Paul's words and narration.
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    Weird. It was correct on my copy.
    Chojin Patriarch said:
    "Delvos controlled worlds by bombarding them from orbit.
    "Devlos controlled worlds by bombarding them from orbit.
    Most of them used to be part of Delvos's fleet.
    Most of them used to be part of Devlos's fleet.
    (Tricky name to keep straight)
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    Thank you, corrected.
     
    Found a typo: this follow-up conversation happened on screen. Surely that must be a mistake.

    I'm kidding, of course. I'm pleasantly surprised we actually got to see it.
     
    RichardWhereat said:
    No no, we've got an even more rigid structure.
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    Well, on a macroscopic level. AFAIK, our universe hasn't crisised. Not that I'd know if it had.

    OTOH, we seem to exist in a subjective reality where you cannot separate between a memory glitch and hopping to a near-identical parallel, in which everything is made out of nothing and maybes.
     
    RichardWhereat said:
    Where does it say that in DC? Because this seems to put the age of the gods at about 35,000 years old.

    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Godwave
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Old_Gods
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    I think it's probably best to take a timey whimey view of the Godwave.

    The Godwave is the source for all superhuman powers in DC except those with extradimensional origins, which would include the Guardians of the Universe, who have been around for 10 billion years or so.

    It's also supposedly the source of the Glow, which likewise the Guardians have been manipulating for billions of years, even before the Brightest Day revelations, and the Quantum Field, which is essentially the backspace pass to reality, the level of subatomic particles, which logically means the Quantum Field would be older than the universe as we know it.

    So the only way to make it make sense I can figure without just ignoring the whole Godwave thing, is to assume that the Godwave created things retroactively.

    So the Old Gods attacked the Source which created the Godwave which in turn created the universe and all life within it which then created the Old Gods which then created the Godwave, etc.

    If one prefers the doylist explanation that all the booze and drugs DC pays its writers in caused them to forget the Godwave, well that works too. :)
     
    Stsword said:
    I think it's probably best to take a timey whimey view of the Godwave.

    The Godwave is the source for all superhuman powers in DC except those with extradimensional origins, which would include the Guardians of the Universe, who have been around for 10 billion years or so.

    It's also supposedly the source of the Glow, which likewise the Guardians have been manipulating for billions of years, even before the Brightest Day revelations, and the Quantum Field, which is essentially the backspace pass to reality, the level of subatomic particles, which logically means the Quantum Field would be older than the universe as we know it.

    So the only way to make it make sense I can figure without just ignoring the whole Godwave thing, is to assume that the Godwave created things retroactively.

    So the Old Gods attacked the Source which created the Godwave which in turn created the universe and all life within it which then created the Old Gods which then created the Godwave, etc.

    If one prefers the doylist explanation that all the booze and drugs DC pays its writers in caused them to forget the Godwave, well that works too. :)
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    It seems a bit more likely that the people who claimed it were just wrong about the Godwave creating the various energy fields.
     
    Vaermina said:
    It seems a bit more likely that the people who claimed it were just wrong about the Godwave creating the various energy fields.
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    That is a possibility, but Green Lanterns, Captain Atom, and the Flash were all affected by the Godwave in Genesis. And everyone affected by Godwave was supposed to be affected because the Godwave was the source of their abilities.

    Although it also affected Starman's Cosmic Staff, which was an odd choice, because it's supposed to be powered by perfectly normal stellar radiation.

    And as a Source Elemental, Takion was shown able to manipulate the Speed Force, the Glow, and Quantum Field when Flash, GL, and Captain Atom confronted him in his limited series.
     
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