With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

As I understand it, it's fine as long as it's clearly marked as such.

 

In that storyline, vampirism, despite it's obvious supernatural elements, is a virus. The Russian lab genetically edited out the bits that give vampires their weaknesses.

Although it wasn't clear on exactly what counted as a weakness. Immune to sunlight, sure, but do they even require blood to survive or can they get by on regular food?

Bennett when he took the formula died, because it was never meant to be taken by someone who was already a vampire, but then promptly resurrected, which then became a new power, much to his displeasure as he apparently committed suicide several times.

While not stated out right, that means the Russian formula vampires might have self-resurrection abilities.

Or maybe that was a weird side effect of a vampire taking the formula, or maybe the Lords of Order had already planned on using Bennett to rage quit the universe.

Because oh yeah Andrew Bennett destroyed the universe, but then God built it right back. That was a weird Dr Fate storyline.

 

Diana is the one who told Supes the plan to give Crusader the spear. Then with only the information of his name Superman prejudged him as, 1. a Nazi 2. one of the Evil Nazis (Redundancy is Redundant) 3. despite it being Wonder Woman telling him this plan, and the plan being Paul's, not being the person he want's to give the spear to.

When Diana explains his mistake his response is,

So he still doesn't want to give him the spear, but at least it's not a Nazi, when Angelika and Overman are right there. Was he worried about either of them having the spear? Would he have fought them if one of them had picked it up in Peru?

Now this is the internet so I have to make this clear yes giving power to Nazis is bad, but prejudice, even against Nazis, is bad.

Edit: spelling

 

There was also the fact that Superman thought that he came from the Nazi Earth and if he came from there then he was most likely a Nazi.

We know none of that is true, but Supes didn't and so he made the perfectly reasonable statement that he doesn't want to give power over to someone he thinks is a Nazi.

They didn't bring anyone named Crusader when they came to Earth 666 and it was unlikely that after Paul went to Nazi Earth that he traveled to another universe to recruit someone else.

The plan can be made by someone that more or less knows what they're doing and be delivered by someone you trust, but if it contains the possibility of a Nazi getting more power, especially the power to control minds, then anyone with half a brain would say that they're reluctant.

I don't think he'd have a problem with them since he knows one of them has disagreed with Nazism for decades and he probably knows Angelika personally now, so he knows that she's become someone that lost faith in Nazism.

I also don't think they'd have a problem with him being reluctant to give the spear to a Nazi, seeing as they probably don't want to see someone who actually believes in Nazism get into the heads of people and control them.

Yes, being prejudiced is bad, but being prejudiced against Nazis is probably one of the few exceptions.

 

Angelica was a Nazi, but Paul was able to help her by not being prejudiced. Is that an exception to the exception?

 

Probably.

 

Actually, giving the Spear to the Nazis would be extremely safe, given their complete cultural rejection of magic. Crusader isn't ill-intentioned, but he's pretty puritanical.

 

Wouldn't their complete rejection of Magic mean that they are unable to effectively protect the Spear from Demons and other supernatural predators?

 

Where are you seeing base line German civilians in the update? We have the party greeting Superman, Overman and Angelika; a group of Vampires approaching the party; and threats from both Vampires talking. I don't see any civilians anywhere. Now if you are implying that there must be baseline humans because vampires can't feed on demon blood, I don't think that has ever been a rule. Usually they can feed on any blood Human, animal, angel or artificial. Demon or demon infused should not matter.

You directly state that demon infused humans can't be civilians, why not? If everyone around them is possessed and wearing the mark of EL they have no reason to attack anyone. They still need to eat so they would still go about their lives. Because they are possessed the probably don't care about being good or protecting society but they don't want to die themselves, unless it is for HIM, so they don't just kill each other, also that would be killing one of his possessions, so they just continue their boring meaningless lives, until they can do what HE wants.

So what Paul, the guy who passes out anti magic amulets like he's Santa who, as you pointed out, gave defenses to Superman, Overman and Angelika, who will give Kinetic belts to any one he thinks could use it, including a demigod that couldn't fly just so he didn't have to wait on him, he went absolutely pants on head before returning to a world seeped in Demon energy?

Diana says Superman changed in an instant, then he began destroying, some time close to or when Superman changed so did the magic system, driving most mages insane. After that Zatanna and Jason Blood tried to discover what Demon had done this, that would take a couple hours, finally the heroes of 666 attacked Superman. So there were several hours between when the word was covered in demon energy and when they lost during which they weren't infected themselves.

This is further proved by Morgana, she was not on the earth when Superman was possessed, and magic on the scale to protect several different locations with a changed magic system and a dearth of expendable skilled mages would most likely take several hours to several days to set up. Yes at this point it's not worth it for her to help any of the infused humans, as she says

but everyone Paul just brought through, if they have no protection, is just starting to sink. They have time for Paul to grab a possessed person, plunk him in front of the Nazis and say here this is what will happen to you if you don't wear this "Magical" amulet, and wear the symbol of the house of EL. Yes it must look like a penis.

I agree that it would be better if we saw/see it on screen but honestly this is what is going to happen,
Paul tells the Nazis they have to do something.
One of the Nazis makes a Nazi remark.
Paul comes back turning the remark into an insult of the Nazi.
The Nazi gets mad.
The Bat tells them to do what Paul said.

If it happens on Earth 666 repace The Bat with Overman.

 

Maybe not? The Guardians did happen to trap the Fear Entity in the Central Power Battery surrounding it with Will and all that did was give all the Greenies a weakness to yellow

All of these demons might be weak to the colour White?

 

When that vampire said that they were there to feed on the surviving humans, I think Chaoswind thought that meant people that weren't corrupted, since he may not consider the corrupted to be human anymore.

And, yeah, it's an easy mistake to make.

Probably not the angel blood.

 

The baseline hapless humans were implied to exist by the Vampire before Paul Greed ported and the update ended.

And I am going to dismiss every ounce of non credible criticism you have because this update was significantly shorter than the usual and we know Zoat writes updates well in advance so it's more than fair for me to assume my criticism was valuable enough to result in a couple hundred cut words of a random hapless German civilians thanking Paul for saving them from the Vampires because the scenario painted by Nabu, Diana and Morgana stated such people shouldn't exist in earth 666.


My entire line of criticism was preemptive of an implied narrative fuck up that had yet to be published and finalized, you must be new here because 90% of my rants are of that nature and I have been doing that dance for almost a decade.

My rant would have been 100% justified if the aforementioned German civilians were shown in any capacity that wasn't high functioning zombie that attacks anyone that isn't like them, however the point of publishing a fic on a interactive forum is to get a bunch of people to give feedback and that isn't just limited to grammar corrections, predicting bad/good future plot points also comes with the medium.

The moment Mr Zoat decides my input holds no value he can just block me in the same way he blocked Vaermina.

 

So this line? I disagree with you that it means non demon possessed humans, but I know where you are coming from now.

isn't that what everyone does with non believable information?

Yes I am new, just caught up and whether you have been doing it for a decade or a week I will still point out where I think you are wrong. There is no way for us to understand each other otherwise. And I am not the only one who disagrees with you so my newness has nothing to do with the belief that you might be wrong.

Spoiler: Eight different times that Demon humans some super some not don't act like Zombies

The weakest one but shows the cultists have some caution if not much.

A superhuman cultist is able to have the willpower to use constructs and the intelligence to carry on a conversation

Again the regular cultists are moving with purpose they have a job to do and are doing it without direct supervision.

Wolf Krieger is a standard human, no super powers, no super intelligence, some magic ability but that seems to come from the spear not him. The portal tech is Kryptonian so he wouldn't get his hands on it until after the possession.

Right here, some of the cultists sent through the portal are smart enough to hide among the Nazis and in Krieger's words Spread his word, I can tell you proselytizing only looks like it can be done by a zombie, to get someone to engage with you is a lot of work.

Oh look they're like zombies, or like supers that just found a enemy in there base.

So Crusader is smart enough to set up this end of the portal. The cultists, non magic users, use range weapons then when they realize that doesn't work they change plans and try a different weapon.


The entire fight with Wonder Woman.

again using the appropriate weapon for a job. and a rocket launcher takes some skill to use.

That's Zoat's call but personally, your posts required me to go back and make sure I was understanding the story correctly.

 

Personally, I think their reaction to Superior Vampiress was funny.

"So you're like, super vampires?"

"No she's just kind of a bitch. Please don't hurt me."

 

For the discussion about the Life Entity hanging around demon Earth, I don't think that it would be all that bothered about the change in the magical atmosphere. The Life Entity, like all the other emotional entities, has a universal connection to all of its element in every living being, everywhere. That's a pretty powerful thing, especially for something that represents all of life. Demon energy seems to be a result of a society's religious or moral beliefs on what is bad or sinful made magically and metaphysically manifest. That's a powerful mixture as well, but all of that is just a portion of what makes up life. I doubt it's anything new to the several billion years old Life Entity. At most, the Life Entity probably tasted the environment, went, "Oh, this flavor again", and went back to whatever dreams it was having before.

I don't know if a change in environment for an emotional entity is enough to significantly change the universal emotional spectrum, but despite Paul becoming the host for the Ophidian, I doubt the desires of everyone in his universe have started to become more aligned with practicality and functionality. Same with Larfleeze not making everyone want to live in a cave.

As for the German villagers, Mr Zoat very well could have planned to make them regular villagers, having forgotten that they would be demonic, but we have little proof of this. It's still a noteworthy possibility. I'll choose to believe the most likely scenario based on the parts of the story currently available, which is that the vampires were feeding on demonic villagers. It's not impossible that this could be the case, although I would imagine that, for the vampires, it would have been like trying to keep angry pet foxes. Suicidally angry demonic foxes. The vampires seem tough enough to be able to handle it.

 

Considering it. You're being kind of a dick at the moment. You do have a reasonable point but you're expressing it in an unnecessarily impolite way.

Yes, it means corrupted humans. Who are humans. I didn't spot that's what Chaoswind was talking about either. Demon magic doesn't stop vampires feeding on their blood.

 

Nice. OL is usually savvy enough to deal with the normies and heavy hitters, but when he faces one of the actual Big Brain characters he doesn't have a fun time.

 

'"Actually..." '

'be very'

'robots fire a'

 

So Demon Supes is a Malvolio-sized titan that's immune to kryptonite. Great what is their plan exactly?

 

Parallel universe Kryptonite don't work on native kryptonians Paul. You need to find native gold kryptonite.... Which he threw into the sun.


*Reads chapter*

 

Actually, Kara Zor-L threw it into the sun.

 

Heh. Extreme measures for an extreme foe, is it? And completely understandable. If you go at Demon-Superman, you're only going to get one chance at it. because once he's pissed off... Well, you can guess what he'll do, and it'll make what he did to his Earth look pleasant...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

The early Noughties was a weird time in comics, huh? Oh, not the giant filter thing, that's honestly, refreshingly comic-booky. No, that incarnation of Zod... Just... Wat.

And he's probably so pumped up with demon energy he thinks he's invincible anyway.

If he's cured, soak him in red sunlight until he's drained dry, ring him back to what his genes say is optimal, then recharge? I mean, you did it for Conner back when you fixed his ears, right?

Probably mild curiosity. Like I said, He (or rather, the demon Rakkar) is probably overconfident, due to being the 800-pound gorilla around here...

...And you know the precise wavelength of Gold K in this universe how? Or are you just going to shoot and hope?

Unless you create a beam so broad it'd cover half a continent, no. And at that range, the radiation would probably be so diffuse that it'd barely work.

...Yeah, you almost said it. And also accurate to the timeline of the era. Barry Allen didn't return until Final Crisis. Which is honestly scary, as Wally West was one of the more powerful Flashes. Hopefully his demonic version is too dumb to use some of his tricks.

Ow. Right in the hamstring. Admittedly, not too useful against someone who can fly... Unless you can force him to fight on the ground.

Heh. Much like the 'Justice League' Flash versus Superman moment... Fast enough to dodge, not strong enough to hurt him...

...And a shitload of Aggro.

Not ideal. Or maybe he was, but his demonic energy infusion is compensating for the loss of power. He's charged up enough that his magical protection is probably as strong as his innate telekinesis...

On loan from OL, I take it. More stuff to repossesses when this is all over. Hope you have a running tally.

So, all of you are distractions for the real damage-dealers?

Another hit like that and he might stand up... And then you're really fucked.

Be glad for that, I think. At least he won't be expecting tricks like this from a Lantern, since his previous experience where the various Greenies. I think the biggest thing he'd seen from them at this point was... creating tethers to tow Earth? Kyle containing a Solaris going supernova?

More distractions, eh?

Well, shit. Outplayed.

...Riiight. I'm curious as to how they knew to go there, but I assume the brand allows Demon-Superman to control them remotely.

That side-effect being making nice, empty corpses for demons to move into, right?

Sheesh. Supes putting that big Kryptonian brain to use.

Crap. Because of course he has the smart heroes as well as the strong ones... And in case you were wondering how he got so close? Mister Terrific is invisible to technological observation thanks to that nifty mask.

I'm guessing a mental attack, similar to what he'd use against a Green Lantern... And that's one of the few weaknesses OL has left.

And so the fight begins... And OL is already practically out of it. It does make sense that he wouldn't be playing a primary offensive role, given the power imbalance involved. Most of his options for dealing with Demon-Superman would fail due to massive defences or speed, and others would impair his kryptonian allies. On the upside, Mister Terrific is only human under the technology and demonic upgrades...

 

Unfortunately, him thinking that may not be overconfidence, given the amount of power he has.

 

Thank you, corrected.

While that's technically sort of true, gold kryptonite and gold kryptonite are very similar, and it's not hard to perform tiny alterations to one to make the other. And sometimes they're close enough that you don't even need to do that.

 

Did you mean to write gold kryptonite twice? If so, maybe you can differentiate it by writing gold kryptonite 16 and gold kryptonite 666.

 

ohhhh I see what happened now

 

Yes. But that was a rhetorical point to emphasise the similarity.

 

Thank you, you crazy (wo)man, you. Updated.

How exactly do you get that 'post reference' thing rather than a thread reference? It really looks like that should be the default.

Oh, and I'm sorry, I know someone brought up a problem with image links, but I've lost track of it. Anyone know where it is?

 

You can quote a post, preview, right quick on the arrow link on the quote box and copy link. That gets you a link like this: https://forum.questionablequesting.com/goto/post?id=5136428#post-5136428

Which will also go directly to the post. Otherwise you have to alter the link manually.