With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

On a completely different note. Can anyone point me to the starro chapters? what with Irish visiting and all I am trying, and failing badly, to remember how that went down in what I shall call the 'with this ring original timeline'

 

That would be Episode 44: A Star Reborn and Episode 99: Plutonian.

 

Not even pretending to be ‘on holiday’ any more I see.

I question the wisdom of trying to become intimate with someone who regards fundamental aspects of your existence uncomfortable.

 

'clenching in'

'on each other'

Why do I get the feeling this is foreshadowing for something.

Hey, art forms can live for centuries.

I sometimes forget about your crush on him.

And the funny thing is that Luthor isn't completely wrong.

I think being around OL influences people to follow their desires more.

 

Now I'm picturing a winged humanoid alien showing up on Riverdale.

It wouldn't be the stupidest thing to happen on that show.

He also a painting made by Hitker.

Nope, it wouldn't be him.

I don't think they did it before now.

Previously he just referred to Jade as his girlfriend or paramour.

 

If Ophidian!Paul thought he could turn Luthor around, then doesn't that mean that he saw something he believed he could exploit or push to make it happen? I'd think that what he saw then, even when he wasn't really thinking straight, would be the same as what he could see now with his Empathic Vision. Has he checked on Luthor lately? Things might have changed to make him more amenable to overtures.

I never understood why someone with the ability to think rationally never just went up to Luthor and said, "Hey, Lex! You want to be humanity's savior? I can help ya out. First, let's do all the stuff Superman can't, like cure cancer. That's at least seven Nobel Prizes for you. Then we'll solve the world energy issues, and follow that up with fixing the environment. Let Superman punch bad guys. You'll save humanity!"

I'd think an approach like that would work for... at least 40% of the Lex's out there, and the YJ Lex (and this version) seems reasonable enough to see the merit in such a plan.

 

What lines? What was he telling him? When?

 

No, I don't think he has.

And I doubt Luthor will be more amenable now.

After Paul was frosty with him during the Manga Khan incident, Luthor may be more careful now that any friendship he and Paul shared is gone.

Paul may be able to see things in Luthor, but that doesn't mean he can use what he knows in a practical way.

The problem with this is that both sides need to be rational.

The person talking to Luthor can be so logical that he makes Vulcans seem like babies, but if the other person isn't logical or has some deep flaws, like paranoia, then the chances of anything working can be minimal.

Paul already offered Lex everything he could want.

He offered to get rid of the rest of the Lighr, he offered to make sure that Luthor isn't found to be connected to them, he offered to help him uplift humanity.

Paul offered everything to Luthor, but due to Luthor's flaws, he turned it down.

Both sides need to be rational for it to work.

 

No, Paragon offered Lex everything Paragon thought Lex wanted based on the fanon ideal of Lex Paragon had built in his head.

At which point when Luthor took home the offer, thought it over, and sent a veiled counter proposal to Paragon, Paragon completely wrote him off because he was too up his own ass to realize it, and it was Paragon's way or the highway.

 

Thank you, corrected.

 

Given Kran Kral's reaction it seems like OL and Jade engaged in a

 

Mr Zoat, I found a few broken pictures.

In each quote, the first picture works, but the second one doesn't

 

Are you sure? Other than the Da Bomb image not formatting properly for some reason they both work fine for me.

 

I changed what wifi I am connected to, and it works now. Sorry for the mistake.

 

If Stellaris has taught me anything it's that being militarist is always a good backup.

 

Paul didnt offer Lex everything he wanted. There is also an issue in assuming Lex is irrational because he refused. There are rational reasons to reject a deal that is in your best interest such as because you dont trust the other party. Like how Paragon acts so hard against the Reach.

Paragon gives far too much away in deals and that can be offputting. Most people have ulterior motives and a good deal being offered directly is questionable. Someone in a good position doesnt take a deal like that.

Not to mention that Paragon, while somewhat rational, does not operate on human logic. His priorities are incredibly skewed and his mental processes are very different. Not to mention how much raw power he is capable of influencing. Just look at all the stuff he is able to pull together and influence, it displays incredible cunning. But literally almost everyone in business and politics with that level of intelligence will show more tact and secrecy regarding true motives. Because concealing your motives can help you get a better deal if they dont know how bad you want it.

You can trust someone with a rational goal that sometimes self-sabotages out of that pursuit. But someone seemingly straighrforward can be hiding some hidden scheme. The best lies are the ones you cant see.

He also failed to recognize just how much Lex wants to show up Superman for example. The sheer irrational dislike for Superman. If OL had wanted to make a 3rd side, that even would have been a better deal. Lex can deal with the Light because he understands Supervillains, he cant understand Paragon.

And Paragon really gave up way too fast. It takes time ans good faith exchanges to really establish sincerity. He met with Lex only a few times really. He gave his full pitch after less than a year. And after the Light had triumphed at New Years. Even now OL is completely ignorant of the scheme cooked up by the Light. Frankly the Light has been completely off the grid since Satanus got yoinked on that trip to hell. No real indication of their current composition or what they are up to. No idea who has replaced Bee or Satanus. And no clues as to what they are doing. Especially since their future Partner is going to have some issues with infiltration with OL around.

But the Light is long term on a scale that Paragon still cant really see. Although that is with canon Vandal as opposed to the shortsighted one who almost destroyed the world in Renegade timeline.

 

The latest Word of Zoat is that Savitar and Boss Smiley are members. Not sure if they've added others since then. If yes, my best guess is Circe. Mr Zoat, if it's not too much of a spoiler, can we get a list of the Light's current members in both timelines? Also, how long until Mary and Lieutenant Marvel join the Team?

 

The Light in the Renegade timeline include the Renegade, Luthor, Cranius, Shade, Circe, Adom and that queen from Venturia.

 

Her name is Clea.

 

What happened to lex here anyway?
Renegade has him on a leash but I don't think he's ever let that stop him.

 

He's mellowed out thanks to the Renegade's influence/restrictions. He is satisfied by the fact that he owns Earth's only space fleet.

 

That should say 'less'. Also, I think that sentence would work better if you remove 'that it' .

That is an interesting way of showing culture clash; how one thing that's considered an insignificant matter by someone could mean the world to someone else. Will Paul get that animosity removed, or is it far too late, and they (meaning Hawkwoman) should just learn to live with it?

 

Got to love those long planted story points.

 

Well when a man and woman love each other, or are very drunk, or one is forcing themselves on the other, or one is gay but is too afraid to acknowledge it and needs to sleep with a member of the opposite gender to prove that they're not gay...

It could just be as a way to record history.

Hah!

Assuming that it's carried out in a magic rich environment.

Though it may not work for you given your unusual situation.

'do that'

'telling me that'

Paul has a habit of being roundabout.

The Queen may not be humanoid but she is basically a walking genetic engineering lab and can work with humanoid DNA.

To be fair you're not very convincing.

'suggested'

That's fair.

Even without Paul's lack of knowledge on Thanagarian customs, he has a habit of tearing things down.

 

And thus we have every way Paul messed up thrown in his face with zero understanding. I understand that he wants the world to be a certain level of rational, but blindly pretending it already is will not make it so.

 

My superiors are worried about what you might tear down next.
- What you are telling me is that your government is filled with a bunch of cowards that prefer to send someone to deal with me, instead of doing it themselves due to being afraid of what I would do?
*silence*
- Paul, are you sure you are trying to have holyday with me?

 

She's so angry that she's going to mindlessly throw herself at you in fury.

Joking aside, how dark are we going to go with this? Did she do that thing where people commit suicide to atone for their honor? It's been so long since that scene happened I honestly can barely remember it.

 

I'm kind of surprised the Hawkwoman thing is considered so significant that it has to be brought up by a government official, especially after the government has basically written off the Hawks as having 'gone native'. But I suppose ensuring a mutual understanding of cultural norms is important.

My main issue, I guess, is that it's been so long since that duel happened, and Jade more or less explained the same thing to Paragon in the chapter right after, so this seems like something that should have been resolved by now. I don't remember if Katar's conversation with Paragon about visiting her happened onscreen, but surely the former has enough of a grasp on the differences between Thanagarian culture and non-martial humans/Paragon to have properly explained the context (admittedly, he kind of did during the duel chapter, but then things got awkward because Paragon brought up the Blades of Alstair). And while Paragon can be blamed for continuing the conflict, in this case it does take both sides to perpetuate it, when Hawkwoman should know that Paragon doesn't have the same appreciation or understanding of her warrior code or whatever, so assigning blame solely to him isn't something I'd agree with.

Honestly when they said 'Hawkwoman incident' I thought they were referring to cultural shifts brought about by Sharon Parker or something.

 

“Cultural differences.”

Right now I am imagining two people raised in different lands. Their letters look the same, they possess similar voices, they were taught consistently throughout their lives… But one was taught to speak as if their words are as dangerous as a motor vehicle while the other believes words reinforce society, empower one’s mental foundations, and help others build themselves up. In the real world humans have a great deal in common with pieces of software which are directed to interact with unrelated software.

If I remember correctly during the Hawkwoman fight Paragon-Paul saw Green and a lot of Red through his empathic vision. Some of the red directed at herself. Recently Paul’s enlightenment was revised following some soul/metaphysical damage which affected his superpower. I… do not think that this improved empathic vision would have helped old-Paul correctly handle Hawkwoman. I don’t think he would intuit that a multi-layered culture clash was going on.

I wonder if Common Sense!Paul has read up on the cultures of the full Justice League or if he has something like Mazlowe’s hierarchy to keep his confidence collared.