With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Mr Zoat · Aug 8, 2022

Darko said:
'so strange'
Not sure because of her way of speaking, but maybe "amuse"

Silveraith said:
They.

Thank you, corrected.

Chojin Patriarch · Aug 8, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
20th November 2012
19:21 GMT -6

I watch the Senate votes as they're tallied, closing my eyes and taking a deep and happy breath as the Bill is finally voted into law. Now it just needs Jon to sign off on it -which he will- and that'll be one piece of madness that no one will ever have to deal with again.
Structural Reform Sublimation
Human-form Luna looks at the screen, then at me, then at the screen. Then she frowns and goes back to looking at me.

Heh. Yes, it's something of a madhouse, isn't it? Such is the modern democratic system. When it works, shit gets done. When it doesn't... Well, discussion of that might run foul of Rule 8. Let's just say that when it doesn't work, it tends to get messy.

"We do not understand."

"I have no reason to doubt your claim and accept it as provisionally true."

In other words, 'care to explain what doesn't make sense to you?'

I feel her rolling her eyes. "They tally ballots, and that creates new law."

"That is one of the many steps that turns a proposed law into an actual law, yes."

Better to take their time and get it right the first time, than rush blindly and have all manner of legal conflicts later.

Luna sifts on the settee so she's facing me rather than the screen.

"You have implied frequently that Our sister's centralisation of power is a weakness in the Equestrian state. We suspect that you will enjoy explaining this… Scrum, to Us."

Well, she is technically a dictator, albeit a benevolent one. What she says goes, albeit with a polite acknowledgement and steady dissemination rather than heralds rushing off to proclaim her decisions to the commoners.

I grin.

"Ah, dear heart, you bring out the pedagogue in me."

Ah, bullshit, Renegade. You just love to hear yourself pontificating on things.

"We are not a hart. We are a pony mare, as well you know."

"Well done for spotting the pun opportunity, but I'm wearing a translator. Have you been studying?"

In case you missed it: 'hart' is an archaic name for some breeds of deer. Mainly those in good old Europe.

"Linguistics and cultural symbolism are areas with which we are well familiar. In Our youth, the Equestrian language was far less unified then it is today."

"Oh?" I raise my eyebrows in curiosity. "My ring's translation causes me to hear you as speaking an older form of my language at times, but that's all."

Better than ye old Old English. Seriously, just look at the Beowulf bit in the article there. Hard to believe that evolved into modern English.

"We have the printing press to thank for that. The form of Equestrian spoken in the central regions of the country encompassing the Old Capital, Canterlot and modern Ponyville became the standard form." She looks mildly perturbed. "We dread to imagine Our fate if Mountain Equestrian had become the standard form."

"Still, that's surprisingly little change for a thousand years."

Which is surprising. Even simple slang can change rapidly over the years, as one generation misuses or makes up words to annoy their elders.

"We have learned in Our time here that ponies are naturally more staid than humans. Mayhap that is why We have been able to make Ourself understood to those who are not historians or linguists. Not that We are complaining. Now: the scrum."

"The 'scrum' on display in the Senate; the smaller of the two legislative bodies of the American government."

Though you did have some trouble adjusting to modern volume. Seriously, the old Canterlot days must have been like old comics, with everyone shouting loudly...

She frowns. "They have two legislative bodies."

"Yes."

"Why?"

It seemed like a good idea at the time? And everyone else was doing it...

"That's a bit complicated. Originally, the United States of America was conceived as being an alliance of constituent States. The would have certain principles in common and recognised that some things would have to be done centrally, but the governments of the various States were supposed to be the main unit rather than the Federal Government in the centre. Originally, Senators were appointed by the governments of the States rather than being directly elected by the people of that State as Congressional Representatives are. That was changed as part of the Federal Government's efforts to centralise power by bypassing State governments. Which means that there are two bodies that do the same thing, rather than the two doing slightly different things."

And yes, that has been as much trouble as you'd imagine it would be, miss Luna.

"We… See."

"As is often the case in situations like this, certain parts of the system don't make sense but they're not bad enough to force those involved to agree how to fix them. Now, a couple of weeks ago there was a Presidential Election which returned the sitting president -Jonathan Horne- to office."

Ah, good to hear. Something of a forgone conclusion, wasn't it? We can but hope it's not gone awry somewhere, though.

"Your ally."

"Yes. But America limits Presidents to two terms of office, and while that law could be changed, he'd… Have to be a lot more popular than he is-"

Like, close to 90 percent approval or more, I should think. And he couldn't put it forwards himself, because...

Even now.

"-to get that to happen. That sort of things looks very self-serving, for obviously reasons."

...Yes, that. It's amazing how speculative fiction goes to town with that sort of idea, though.

"Eight years, at most."

"Yes indeed."

She snorts. "We now understand how Our sister's reign seems to strange to the people of this land."

Well, to an eternal like you, of course it looks like a game of musical chairs.

"Having a compulsory departure date means that new ideas have to rise to the surface. It also means that it's easier to get rid of people who make a mess of things without needing some sort of civil war. And since they know that they're going to go, there's a limit for the level of corruption they can get involved in because the next person will probably have a vested interest in ferreting it out and bringing it to wider attention."

"A system built on discord."

...Let's not name any recent names, shall we?

Rule 8, remember. And leave the conspiracy theories to the tinfoil-hat brigade...

"A system which assumes discord. Of course, the system has the problem that as a President approaches the end of their time in office everyone else knows they're on the way out as well, which effectively strips them of a lot of their power. Anyway, Horne's in and has the reigns of power for four more years."

And about halfway through that people who want to be President next are going to come to ask for my support… Have to see how it goes. The Democrats won't let anyone like Jon near the nomination papers ever again and the Republicans… I've got no idea who they might nominate now that Knight's missed his shot.

Why do I get the feeling a 'President Lex' plot is going to pop at at some point? Or at least be teased?

After all, the next election will likely be beyond the scope of this fic...

"So what is this ballot in aid of?"

"The passing of the Detention Failure Emergency Act. Essentially, if a prisoner either convicted of a crime which potentially carries the death penalty or a patient held in a mental institution by court order who has been ruled not guilty by reason of insanity on a criminal charge which potentially carried the death penalty escapes custody, they are to be killed. No effort will be made to recapture them, only hunt them down and kill them. It also indemnifies officers who kill such people against prosecution in states which don't have a death penalty."

...So you're getting a law passed which will annihilate Joker Immunity? Nice.

Wink wink. Nudge nudge.

"Why is such a law required? Are such feats of escapology so common and such crimes so common that this remedy is needed?"

It's more that the universe itself loves to see some jackasses out in the wild. No offence to any donkeys.

"No, it only applies to a small proportion of the criminal population, but they're so disproportionately murderous that it is actually a problem. Same reason we don't just 'build better prisons'. Some of the people we lock up are just too good at escaping. Imagine… Trying to imprison a pony whose special talent was escaping, and also likes eating pony brains. They're clearly mad and need hospitalisation, but no decent ruler would let them go back to eating their preferred diet as an alternative to killing them."

"That is… Somewhat morbid."

And now I'm picturing a Ponified Hannibal Lecter. Adorable, but horrifying.

"Okay, imagine that King Sombra managed to pull himself back together and attacked Equestria, conjuring up his umbral buddies to possess random ponies. Do you order the guards to try arresting him, or do you send the bearerherd to Element-blast him back into oblivion?"

"The second."

Which, it's worth noting, is what happened when he did return. Though I wonder if that's been butterflied a little because of Renegade...

"And I don't remember anyone saying that Nightmare Moon deserved a chance to live independently. The plan was 'wait one thousand years, then rainbow cannon to the face'."

"We are not Our sister, driven weak-stomached by a millennium of peace. We are aware that Our sister took no efforts to capture 'her' alive." I nod. Fair enough. "You would have her live?"

Pfft, no. She tried to cause the end of the world. I doubt she even cared that her 'eternal night' plan would have destroyed the ecosystem, as long as she got her way.

"No." Uh. "Maybe. The Obsidian Deeps have no light. She could have been happy there, perhaps. But I wouldn't have risked freezing Wilson to death to do it. And now, American law enforcement won't have to either."

"It seems strange to Us that such a thing needs to be codified, though We suppose it flows from having a weaker sovereign. Tell Us more of this land's politics, Our swain, that We may amusement Ourself with their foolishness."

Ooh, is she feeling a bit naughty after hearing all this? Well, whatever floats her boat, so to speak.

I smile.

"You're going to love the court system."

What's the bet her reaction involves rolling on the floor laughing, or facepalming in bemusement?

Good to see Renegade again too. Wonder how things are going elsewhere in his universe? And with such an amusing discussion of American political systems, and his little arrangement to fuck over people like the Joker. I mean, I'd be impressed if he managed to escape in the shape he's in right now (Quadruple amputee, wasn't he?) but you never know. Better to make the ones that can get out realising they won't have an easy ride than have to run about catching them again.

Luna sifts on the settee so she's facing me rather than the screen.

Luna shifts on the settee so she's facing me rather than the screen.

Citizen · Aug 8, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Tell Us more of this land's politics, Our swain, that We may amuse Ourself with their foolishness."

"Hey, boyfriend. Come cuddle with me and talk shit about human politics."
"Don't threaten me with a good time."

Jack of Olives · Aug 8, 2022

Is it wrong that I still find the 'Wilson'-thing hilarious?

KaiKolo · Aug 8, 2022

Hey Princess Luna is back. It'll be fun to see her make sense of the chaotic order that modern governments bring. Similarly, it would be fun to see people with idealistic views of democracy try to inspire republicanism in a place where the two monarchs literally keep the planet from dying.

I very much understand why this bill would be needed in a world where supervillains breaking out of prisons and insane asylums are a common occurrence, that being said heros like Flash, Superman, and Batman aren't going to like this.

In addition to the effort he goes through to not kill people when he stops them, Batman has been shown to be against the government killing people without due process. Considering that Gotham PD used to be very corrupt before Jim Gordon took over, and the US government is no better at times, distrusting the government no not refrain from abuses of power is a solid policy.

Aside from trying to kill him every once in a while, Flash has had more of a 'friendly' relationship with his rogues gallery.

Maybe if it were limited to allowing police to respond with lethal force when presented with escaped inmates, rather than mandating that they "Put Down the Rabid Dog," more heros would be onboard.

Assblaster5000 · Aug 8, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
Pfft, no. She tried to cause the end of the world. I doubt she even cared that her 'eternal night' plan would have destroyed the ecosystem, as long as she got her way.

We actually got to see an alternate timeline where Nightmare Moon won. Aside from being dark and all the guards armour being enchanted to make them look like Bat Ponies everything was more or less the same really. Either the plants there don't need sunlight or they figured out how to stop them from dying right quick.

Maybe sort of implied that Nightmare Moon killed Discord and the other villains though given The Elements couldn't be used and none of them are so much as mentioned.

Handlewithcare · Aug 8, 2022

"So you are ruled by a cabal called the 'Supreme Court'?"

"Yes, but no, but yes."

"...I understand some of your villains better now"

Mr Zoat · Aug 8, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
Luna shifts on the settee so she's facing me rather than the screen.

Thank you, corrected.

Why do I get the feeling a 'President Lex' plot is going to pop at at some point? Or at least be teased? After all, the next election will likely be beyond the scope of this fic...

main-qimg-579727b3fef96440ce90cb392b6139b2-lq

Quadruple amputee, wasn't he?

As far as I remember he just lost his arms.

Vaermina · Aug 8, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"The passing of the Detention Failure Emergency Act. Essentially, if a prisoner either convicted of a crime which potentially carries the death penalty or a patient held in a mental institution by court order who has been ruled not guilty by reason of insanity on a criminal charge which potentially carried the death penalty escapes custody, they are to be killed. No effort will be made to recapture them, only hunt them down and kill them. It also indemnifies officers who kill such people against prosecution in states which don't have a death penalty."

It's adorable that Grayven thinks that will survive the constitutional challenge.

Because it wouldn't.

Stsword · Aug 8, 2022

It's also both a useless law and an unenforceable law.

The light had to arrange a Machiavellian scheme to take over Belle Reve. Cardboard prisons are obviously not the norm in Young Justice, and when they saw villains who were supposed to be in prison they immediately knew the Light took over Belle Reve because the idea that they just escaped from Belle Reve was inconceivable.

So this is a solution looking for a problem.

And it's unenforceable. Non federal law enforcement doesn't work for Washington DC, they work for the states and local government.

From the NYPD to sheriff of mulehumper, flyover country, the feds aren't really in a position to punish anyone who responds with "Fuck you, you can't tell me what to do," because it's literally true in this case. Just like the feds can't do anything if local cops don't arrest people for violating federal drug or immigration laws. While local cops can do arrest people for violating federal law, that's voluntary, not mandatory.

So a cop who ignores this law will SHUDDER! worry about a strongly worded letter maybe.

Unless the bill makes it a literal federal crime for cops to not execute those escaped prisoners, and that would have a snowball's chance in hell of passing.

mastermenthe · Aug 8, 2022

Stsword said:
It's also both a useless law and an unenforceable law

Yes, but also maybe no.

Yes, all your points are true.

Maybe no, because this is a universe where Narrative Forces exist in the form of The Dream and The Emotional Lights and Literal Magic/Meddling Devils.

This law is:
1.) half vigourously dick-waving in Batman's face,
2.) Half de-clawing the narrative forces encouraging Joker Immunity coincedences, as making such coincidences be opposed by previously non-aligned narrative forces.

Think of it as multiple neutral tropes of fiction are being encouraged to join forces with the Superhero trope in kicking Supervillain trope in the ribs.

...yeah, this law is attacking the bystander effect.

Ngamer11 · Aug 8, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
As far as I remember he just lost his arms.

If I remember correctly, the Renegade specified that he crushed the Joker's limbs, but they are still attached to him. He later fixed one of his arms, possibly temporarily, in order to get an autograph for Starman's son.

Mr Zoat · Aug 8, 2022

Stsword said:
It's also both a useless law and an unenforceable law.

The light had to arrange a Machiavellian scheme to take over Belle Reve. Cardboard prisons are obviously not the norm in Young Justice, and when they saw villains who were supposed to be in prison they immediately knew the Light took over Belle Reve because the idea that they just escaped from Belle Reve was inconceivable.

So this is a solution looking for a problem.

And it's unenforceable. Non federal law enforcement doesn't work for Washington DC, they work for the states and local government.

From the NYPD to sheriff of mulehumper, flyover country, the feds aren't really in a position to punish anyone who responds with "Fuck you, you can't tell me what to do," because it's literally true in this case. Just like the feds can't do anything if local cops don't arrest people for violating federal drug or immigration laws. While local cops can do arrest people for violating federal law, that's voluntary, not mandatory.

So a cop who ignores this law will SHUDDER! worry about a strongly worded letter maybe.

Unless the bill makes it a literal federal crime for cops to not execute those escaped prisoners, and that would have a snowball's chance in hell of passing.

On the contrary.

Of course the law doesn't cover the entire country. It is valid only in locations which operate on federal law, such as federal land, courts and prisons. There is already a mechanism in universe for transfering supercriminals to the Belle Reve Federal Penitentiary.

If the Joker stays in Gotham, it doesn't apply.

Yet.

Because it's a powerful indicator of the direction of travel that the Office of the President thinks the country ought to go in, and any jurisdiction that doesn't pass a similar law will be asked some rather pointed questions. Not by the Oval Office, but by their own constituents.

And of course if any supervillain actually commits a federal offence, including but not limited to terrorism, then it certainly applies.

Mr Zoat · Aug 8, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
The land chose the young son of one of the refugees and the next prince

Thank you, corrected.

Pinklestia · Aug 8, 2022

PepeTheFrog said:
Hmm. Escaping a super prison or asylum now carries the problem of giving up your right to live. That will curb the escapist's sane enough to reformed while eliminating those insane enough to escape. A perfectly Darwinian solution.

Unfortunately this is a comic books universe so something will go wrong.

Remember when the Joker had super lawyers that got him out somehow? Or Lex Luthor?

PepeTheFrog · Aug 8, 2022

Pinklestia said:
Unfortunately this is a comic books universe so something will go wrong.

Remember when the Joker had super lawyers that got him out somehow? Or Lex Luthor?

That's something going right. If lawyers get them out then the system is working. Probably not working as intended but it's working.

Sorrow · Aug 8, 2022

So what happens if the Joker walks up to someone and says "Here! Smell my flower!" and the person shoots him in the face with a .45? That's self-defense, isn't it? Does that person go to jail? Or do they get a ticker tape parade?

'Cause I imagine there are people out there that would pay for Joker to be gunned down. In fact, I'm suprised Batman hasn't had to stop Joker from being murdered by bounty-hunters.

I can't see Deathstroke or Deadshot not taking a bounty on any of the criminals in DC if the money was good. Professional courtesy my @$$.

Pinklestia · Aug 8, 2022

Sorrow said:
So what happens if the Joker walks up to someone and says "Here! Smell my flower!" and the person shoots him in the face with a .45? That's self-defense, isn't it? Does that person go to jail? Or do they get a ticker tape parade?

Is the Joker, even a fresh graduate would get the man who killed the Joker declared non guilty.

Plus no one in Gotham would want to.prosecute the man (or whatever) who killer the Joker.

Bud-E · Aug 8, 2022

Pinklestia said:
Is the Joker, even a fresh graduate would get the man who killed the Joker declared non guilty.

Plus no one in Gotham would want to.prosecute the man (or whatever) who killer the Joker.

I'm sure in Gotham you could actively seek out the Joker, get into a fire-fight, with collateral damage, and they still wouldn't charge you with the Joker's murder.

ForeverShogo · Aug 8, 2022

I'm pretty damn sure there have even been storylines where people flat out refused to convict the person who killed The Joker.

Though I'm also pretty sure most of those storylines exist solely to create arbitrary conflict in the superhero community. Because apparently the worst possible thing you can do isn't the mass murder characters like The Joker regularly indulge in. Nope. The absolute most evil thing you can do is kill supervillains.

Sockmonkey · Aug 8, 2022

Sorrow said:
So what happens if the Joker walks up to someone and says "Here! Smell my flower!" and the person shoots him in the face with a .45? That's self-defense, isn't it? Does that person go to jail? Or do they get a ticker tape parade?

'Cause I imagine there are people out there that would pay for Joker to be gunned down. In fact, I'm suprised Batman hasn't had to stop Joker from being murdered by bounty-hunters.

I can't see Deatrhstroke or Deadshot not taking a bounty on any of the criminals in DC if the money was good. Professional courtesy my @$$.

Considering how often the Joker kills ordinary people for shits and giggles, a neutral court would likely rule it as self-defense. His established patterns and the threat he represents are common knowledge.

Hell, most other supervillains hate the joker's guts for doing such ridiculous bullshit and being an unreliable ally.

Mr Zoat · Aug 8, 2022

Sorrow said:
So what happens if the Joker walks up to someone and says "Here! Smell my flower!" and the person shoots him in the face with a .45? That's self-defense, isn't it? Does that person go to jail? Or do they get a ticker tape parade?

Both, probably. The question is whether or not they go to prison. And I have my suspicions.

Coda · Aug 8, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Alec.

Smart!

Mr Zoat said:
Which means that there are two bodies that do the same thing, rather than the two doing slightly different things."

They DO do slightly different things. Even with both being elected instead of having one being appointed, the design is still intended to have each house representing different balances of power. The House represents the popular majority opinion while the Senate is meant to ensure that the needs of minority populations aren't neglected. Opinions may vary over how effective this is in practice, but that was the clearly-documented founding intent.

RichardWhereat · Aug 8, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"You're going to love the court system."

It seems to me that since in Earth 16 of DC, Supreme Court Justices are for life, the answer lies in Deathstroke the Terminator.

Vaermina · Aug 8, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
On the contrary.

Of course the law doesn't cover the entire country. It is valid only in locations which operate on federal law, such as federal land, courts and prisons. There is already a mechanism in universe for transfering supercriminals to the Belle Reve Federal Penitentiary.

If the Joker says in Gotham, it doesn't apply.

Yet.

Because it's a powerful indicator of the direction of travel that the Office of the President thinks the country ought to go in, and any jurisdiction that doesn't pass a similar law will be asked some rather pointed questions. Not by the Oval Office, but by their own constituents.

And of course if any supervillain actually commits a federal offence, including but not limited to terrorism, then it certainly applies.

Except for the whole part where the courts all but immediately strike the law down as being unconstitutional.

Old Knife · Aug 9, 2022

I want Luna to run for president.

Coda · Aug 9, 2022

Vaermina said:
Except for the whole part where the courts all but immediately strike the law down as being unconstitutional.

On what grounds would it be unconstitutional?

It's not on due process grounds, because it requires a conviction of a capital crime, followed by proof of commission of another crime. This also rules out it being classified as an unreasonable seizure or taking.

It's not cruel and unusual punishment; again, death is not unusual punishment for a capital crime, and reincarceration might actually be more cruel.

The only way it could be a First Amendment issue is if the inmate had been denied a writ of habeas corpus and escaped in order to petition the government.

It's not a Tenth Amendment issue because it only applies to federal crimes and federal facilities.

So... how is it unconstitutional?

Vaermina · Aug 9, 2022

Coda said:
On what grounds would it be unconstitutional?

It's not on due process grounds, because it requires a conviction of a capital crime, followed by proof of commission of another crime. This also rules out it being classified as an unreasonable seizure or taking.

It's not cruel and unusual punishment; again, death is not unusual punishment for a capital crime, and reincarceration might actually be more cruel.

The only way it could be a First Amendment issue is if the inmate had been denied a writ of habeas corpus and escaped in order to petition the government.

It's not a Tenth Amendment issue because it only applies to federal crimes and federal facilities.

So... how is it unconstitutional?

Read the wording.

if a prisoner either convicted of a crime which potentially carries the death penalty

Violation of due processes in every case the person wasn't sentenced to the death penalty.

or a patient held in a mental institution by court order who has been ruled not guilty by reason of insanity on a criminal charge which potentially carried the death penalty escapes custody,

Violation of due process period, because the person was found "not guilty" and wasn't sentenced to the death penalty.

Long story short, the only time these two would maybe be possible is if the person who escaped was sentenced to the Death Penalty. And even that's iffy because our justice system has a lot of checks and balances in place to stop people being murdered by the government.

It also indemnifies officers who kill such people against prosecution in states which don't have a death penalty."

While this? This part is a violation of the Tenth.

Bramble Thorn · Aug 9, 2022

Pinklestia said:
They wouldn't pass.

Batman would vote no cause they are mass killers.

Same for Superman.

Same for any of the GLs.

Flash, most of them, tends to be big on redemption but would vote no as is not like they have really changed.

Wonder Woman may vote yes cause warrior culture.

To sum up, most of the Seven would vote no save perhaps Aquaman and Wonder Woman so no way in Hell they are getting in the League not unless this somehow became the Injustice Universe instead of Teen Titans.

Even on a trial basis they are mass murderers.

So yeah, may need to Jump Universes to Join the League.

Batman's pragmatic enough to consider the 'better on the inside pissing out, than the outside pissing in' angle.
I mean if all the people they want dead are already dead, then they don't have a lot of skin in the game on 'do I have to kill this guy I'm fighting, or not?' She just wants interesting and memorable fights. He just wants a happy wife.

So, better to have them join on the understanding that joining means going nonlethal as the S.O.P (with Justice League standard racist exceptions for robots, demons, and stuff that looks inhuman and ugly), than remain horribly lethal non-members.

Coda · Aug 9, 2022

Vaermina said:
Violation of due processes in every case the person wasn't sentenced to the death penalty.

OL said "essentially." He isn't quoting the law as written in the proper legalese; he's giving the short version. What this law likely does is define a sentencing guideline -- instead of the choices being "life imprisonment" or "death" a sentencing judge can now choose "death, commuted to life imprisonment unless the criminal escapes from prison." This remains constitutional as long as the judge is allowed to use discretion in which of these three sentences to hand down.

Vaermina said:
Violation of due process period, because the person was found "not guilty" and wasn't sentenced to the death penalty.

I'll credit you that this one is very borderline. It probably wouldn't fly at all in US Prime. But US Prime doesn't have people with disorders that make them chronically incapable of making moral judgments, who are also them a clear and present danger to the public for an indefinite amount of time, who also cannot be restrained through normal means. US 16 clearly does, and I would expect jurisprudence there to have evolved differently as a result.

Honestly, this one's more of a plot hole in the underlying DC setting. The fictional definition of "insane" is completely bonkers. The Joker is not insane -- he's intelligent enough that he should be able to understand the consequences of his actions. He's capable of long-term planning, so his actions aren't the result of an inability to control his impulses. He is aware of his own actions. Whatever mental illness he has, he isn't insane -- he isn't incapable of forming intent.

But if we were to grant that Batman's rogues gallery is full of people who really are so insane that they don't know that what they're doing is wrong, then what this law is establishing is a class of mental illness that is such a grave threat to public safety that lethal force is statutorily considered a defensive act. It isn't a criminal death penalty; it's a legal recognition of a clear and present danger.

Vaermina said:
While this? This part is a violation of the Tenth.

Wrong for two reasons.

(1) It only applies to federal statutes, so this isn't overriding state death penalty laws. This is preempting charges and lawsuits that would have failed on jurisdictional grounds anyway.

(2) It's not immunity; it's indemnification. It doesn't mean the officers can't be brought to trial. It means that the federal government takes responsibility for compensating the damages. Importantly, this means that if the officer did do something wrong, they can still be tried for it instead of having the entire trial thrown out up front.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Dedicated ragequitter

Veteran Lurker

Well worn.

Knows just enough to be dangerous.

Know what you're doing yet?

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Versed in the lewd.

Dedicated ragequitter

Well worn.

Versed in the lewd.

Mint Thistle

Experienced.

Dedicated ragequitter

Dedicated ragequitter

Well worn.

Alt Accounts are for Alt-Tabbing

Getting sticky.

Well worn.

Stand up so I can push you down!

Not too sore, are you?

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Dedicated ragequitter

Versed in the lewd.

Aia airëa Fëanáro.

Well worn.

Not too sore, are you?

Versed in the lewd.

Well worn.

Verified Silhouette

Versed in the lewd.

Users who are viewing this thread