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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    No, I think that's implied by the usse of the word 'better'.
     
  2. rdfox

    rdfox Know what you're doing yet?

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    "So... I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover up the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again... I would." --Captain Benjamin Sisko, Deep Space 9 "In the Pale Moonlight"

    "Garak was right about one thing: a guilty conscience is a small price to pay for the safety of the Alpha Quadrant. So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it. .........Computer, erase that entire personal log." --Sisko, continuing from the preceding quote

    It's just as quotable in the short form as in the full-length version; the extra context is helpful, but it still works either way.
     
  3. rkyeun

    rkyeun Cabbitus Maximus

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    "Hey, Sivania!"
    "Yes?"
    "I want a specially-tailored virus that turns cannibal sapient-eating space spiders into vegetarians."
    "Is the meat eating or the sapient eating more of a problem? It's a lot easier if they're still allowed to eat sapient plants."
    "Er... Let's go with just making them not eat sapients."
    "Tch. Fine. Oh, I can make them just... not need or be able to eat at all."
    "I'm not sure if that's better or worse."
     
  4. Bud-E

    Bud-E Stand up so I can push you down!

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    Is it wrong that I kinda hope Paul breaks Superman by showing him what he deals with? Paul has stated multiple times the issues with how the League operates but they've never done anything about it besides act surprised when these issues come up. They don't have to implement drastic measures and change everything but it feels like once Paul points out flaws they just feel bad for a moment and move on and forget anything that was just said. Is this a case of "status quo is god" or extreme stubbornness I don't know but I hate how they never seem to seriously consider the advice Paul gives.
     
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  5. Ardy

    Ardy Not too sore, are you?

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    heres hoping the JL reads supes’ report then. Or rather since he’s already made that point, read it and think on it
     
  6. Zig

    Zig Know what you're doing yet?

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    Uh yes? That's been an ongoing theme in this story for years and is the central theme of this arc. The SI has a problem and is thinking about a solution.
     
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  7. Vaermina

    Vaermina Experienced.

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    The Guardian's don't care.

    The Green Lanterns are their minimum effort maximum result solution to a general lack of order in the galaxy. The one time they tried to do more? It ended up with the Manhunters and them wiping out an entire sector of the universe.


    It would be "A specifically tailored virus that turns them into Herbivores who get violently sick if they eat meat", but yes, that would solve like 95% of the eating other sapient beings problem.

    Because I think there are only two actual plant races in DC comics, and both are strong/isolated enough that it's super unlikely the Spider Guild would be able to take them on.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
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  8. Karmic Acumen

    Karmic Acumen The long-suffering one

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    Viruses are never 100% effective, they have diminishing returns, and there's always someone who shows immunity. Also, they are prone to mutation. Very much so compared to anything else.

    I also doubt it's something that would work without lethal experimentation on at least as many people as the belligerents that are likely to die through current methodology. Probably many more.

    I also also doubt it would work out without spawning some other horrors or conflicts on the way, even without the Color kingdoms taking offense.

    Gain of function research also takes a long time to yield anything approaching results. For something like this, it would be decades at least.

    Maybe not so easily assume the Cadmus method is the right method?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2022
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  9. Ardy

    Ardy Not too sore, are you?

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    They also would immediately start designing/growing sapient vegetables to murder, because they can eat regular non-sapient meat just fine, they just want to eat intelligent beings and won't stop unless they're made to.

    Plus the fact that the queen exists at all means they would be able to make another virus to change themselves back. Good ol' Vaermina, assuming the idiot in the room is everyone except them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
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  10. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I’ll direct you towards the Burning Martians, a race of dangerous aliens that the Guardians genetically modified against their will to stop them from being a danger

    If it were a genuine solution they would have done it
    Thats not even considering the debate of whether it’s any more moral to forcibly change the DNA of an entire species
     
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  11. NightmareWarden

    NightmareWarden I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Listen, when military might is concentrated in the hands of a few, everyone would be better off if those at the top were educated, replaceable and enlightened. Not necessarily Orange-enlightened, but something of the sort. They need to value philosophical quarries and axioms relating to how a sapient being should exist and act, and right now the spider guiders do not. Attempting to find a mix of ethical, stimulating recreational options (video games, art, television, sports, drugs, food, volunteer work…) will make most hypothetical societies more productive than turning them into meat computers or cogs in a tyrannical machine.

    So I’d propose as a punishment when warranted and as a treaty requirement going forward that emotional manipulation be investigated. Like what Paul did to keep everyone on track during the Spider Queen’s original conference to set up new relationships with those pirates. Guide them into understanding themselves and into understanding others by sharing foreign points of view. Martians could share memories (and share terminology relevant to examining thought processes), emotion manipulation like with that fancy mask… Temporary mental alterations as a tool to connect with a society (primarily the leaders). Remember the society Paul struggled to relate to before and after his death to a Qwa matter bomb? One step on the road to enlightenment and social revolution is to use the resources at hand to widen the horizons of those with one-track minds.

    The spider guilders are quite similar to the Citadelians, but the fact that the spiders still have identities in a meaningful sense (no hive mind connection) means this society would be somewhat easier to change than Citadelian worlds.


    We saw the use of buried mental commands in the canon show of Young Justice. We also see this strategy employed by the Reach. What I’ve outlined above would be a tremendous undertaking to implement, even if there was a neutral, trusted party like the Guardians of the Universe double checking the work. It is scary, particularly in the hands of large organizations like governments. In addition many would find the prospect of altering the minds and emotions of people who are coerced to be disgusting. So this would take centuries to implement in a degree that could be replicated on multiple societies. But it has merit. It is an alternative to genocide or the phantom zone.
     
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  12. Cuchulin

    Cuchulin Versed in the lewd.

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    Don't think I have ever heard the bit about the other nine beating number ten to death.
    That said it probably meant much the same thing for most of the history of the Western Empire, because if something works or seems to work even one time? People tend to repeat it over and over again.
     
  13. Threadmarks: Uncomplicated Good Works (part 17)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    22nd December 2012
    09:01 GMT


    Mr. Rodriguez opens the door to his apartment, and then freezes up as he sees me.

    "Ah…"

    "Good morning. I see you know who I am."

    "Yeah. I ain't never going to forget that whole cake thing, man. Ah, or-" He raises his hands defensively. "-when you fought the Sheeda. I get you ain't just the cake man."

    "I appreciate that. This is Mister Kent of the Metropolis Daily Planet."

    "Oh yeah, Superman's favourite paper, right?"

    Kal-El shifts awkwardly, his posture slovenly and uncertain.

    "Ah. I guess. He's got good taste."

    He flashes a smile for a moment, then makes a show of giving up on it when Mr. Rodriguez doesn't reciprocate immediately.

    "Right. So, I guess this is about Medina."

    "Indeed it is. I'm sure that your lawyer has explained the difficulties in engaging with anyone on Themyscira legally, particularly when Medina doesn't want to engage with the process at all. I hadn't originally intended to get involved, but… I think I might be able to help things along a little in an informal manner."

    A slightly guarded look appears on his face.

    "Do I need my lawyer for this?"

    "'Need'? No. I don't have any formal legal authority. However, a lot of Themysciran law works on the basis of who is the most persuasive in the forum and I've got an advantageous reputation. I'll quite understand if you want to call your lawyer and set up a group meeting, but that sort of thing doesn't play well to the Amazon crowd."

    He looks me in the eyes for a few moments and then shrugs. "What's your stake in this, anyway?"

    "I want Themyscira to have more contact with the rest of the world. I rather assumed that they would be more interested in American women than men, but I should probably have seen something like this happening."

    "Medina didn't seem too gay to me."

    "She's not American." He looks blank. "Different societies conceptualise behaviours differently. In Ancient Themyscira, it was quite normal for women who prefer women to have sex with men when they wanted to get pregnant, because.. they.. didn't have IVF. If they didn't have sex with a man, then they wouldn't have children. Medina's current all-female marriage group has been together for over two thousand years."

    "Then what's she doing sleeping around!?"

    "Finding someone to sire a child. Three thousand years ago one of her wives would have picked someone, usually an immediate relative, but they don't know any men who are still alive."

    "So she can sleep with men, and the other women are fine with it?"

    "She can have sex with men while she's trying to get pregnant. If she was doing it recreationally, that might be a problem."

    "So if she enjoys-?"

    "No. She can enjoy it incidentally, though… Ah… Unless you have a metahuman empathic ability you haven't told anyone about, I wouldn't assume-."

    "Oh, no man, she wasn't faking."

    My right hand finds its way to my forehead.

    "And I'm happy to take your word for that. But that doesn't have much social significance on Themyscira."

    "Ah, shit." He looks away, releasing some of the tension he just built up. "Ah, yeah, ah… You wanna come in?"

    "Thank you."

    He steps back from the door, and I lead the way in. Pretty tidy for a bachelor apartment. Smells… Yes, something was painted recently. The colours are light pastels and I notice that there's a slightly out of place crucifix attached to one wall.

    Mr. Rodriguez notices me looking at it.

    "My momma gave me that as a housewarming present. She-. She really ain't happy about this whole thing."

    "I admit, I'd rather been assuming that she just went to a club and picked someone up."

    "Nah, that's…" He points to a couple of chairs next to the dining table. "Ah, take a seat. You want coffee?"

    "Not for me, thank you."

    "Yes please. Ah, black. If you've… Got it."

    Laying it on a little thick there, Kal-El.

    "Ah… Yeah. Sure, man."

    Mr. Rodriguez walks into his kitchenette and… Puts a capsule in a coffee machine before taking a couple of mugs out of a wall-mounted cupboard.

    "So how did you and Medina meet, anyway?"

    "At the coffee shop where I work. She came in during the graveyard shift and… We got talking. She sure didn't mention being married at any point."

    "You… You were dating?"

    He presses the button to generate a mug of coffee, then puts in a new capsule.

    "I thought we were." He shakes his head. "Next time, I'm waiting 'til we're married."

    "That's probably for the best. Were you.. planning on having a child-."

    "No, I just… I figured she was on the pill when she said it was 'okay'. I mean, I thought we-. I really liked her, y'know? I wouldn't a'minded having a kid with her. And then… A few weeks later and she's out the door and that's when I find out where she's from."

    He sighs as he presses the button for another coffee.

    "I didn't even-. I just wanted to know where she ran off to, y'know? And… Why. And you're telling me that the whole thing was so she could get pregnant?"

    "I take it that she never discussed it in those terms."

    He picks up the mugs and walks over to us at the table, putting one mug down in front of Kal-El on a coaster before sitting down opposite us and taking a sip.

    "No, she didn't discuss it in those terms. I mean I'm-. I'm going back over every conversation we had in my head and wondering if I heard one thing and she meant something completely different. I dunno. I just thought we had a good thing going on."

    "Do you have a good relationship with your own father?"

    "My dad? Yeah, sure. Him and Mom have been together for thirty years. I'm the youngest of three." He shakes his head. "Dad and Mom are not happy with me right now. Christmas is gunna be real awkward."

    "Would you be prepared to talk about your relationship in front of a group of strangers?"

    "Ah. I don’t… Why?"

    "Because while I could do it, I suspect that you telling the forum how you feel would be a good deal more effective."
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2022
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  14. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare Versed in the lewd.

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    Poor guy.

    Medina is thousands of years old, it probably never occured to her there could be any issue with her actions.

    But that doesn't mean his feelings are invalid.
     
  15. Cuchulin

    Cuchulin Versed in the lewd.

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    Well when something has been "the way things are done" in your society for your entire life...
     
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  16. Lord Ernest

    Lord Ernest At the End...

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    I mean, it sounds fucked up. If she really just wanted a sperm donor why the charade?

    Did they do it that way in ancient times? Infiltrate a town, seduce/romance a guy without saying were they're from, date for enough time to have multiple intercourse encounters ('cause that one shot deal is really rare) and just disappear like the morning fog?

    Switch the genders and people would be calling for pitchforks and torches!
     
  17. BR549

    BR549 This is filth! FILTH!!

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    Typo alert

    'has', I thnk.

    That's probably not how she saw it. She probably didn't realise there was anything romantic at all, and thought that he knew all the way through what was going on.

    Blue and Orange Morality doesn't require either the blue or the orange to be non-human.
     
  18. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

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    Oh, ho. The unlucky fellow who got an Amazon pregnant. Well, unlucky in that she doesn't want anything to do with him. I guess OL is motivated to involve himself now because it's an easier moral quandary than a sapient-eating alien race.

    Wow, someone who doesn't assume he's a one-note Lantern. Still led with the cake thing, though. :p

    ...Something like that, I suppose.

    And here we see 'Clark Kenting' in action.

    Yeah, that's a safe bet, amigo.

    After all, being one of the more prestigious parties on the island gives him a certain pull amongst the people.

    I suspect a personal appearance by the jilted father might also help... But I'm sure he'll think of that.

    It's an old tradition, after all. At least she let him live, unlike some variations.

    'Group'? Polyromantic as well? How progressive.

    That would be a little awkward, yes.

    Especially if she's keeping the gent to herself when her partners might want to join in. :oops:

    ...I mean, after a dry spell of three thousand years, she might well have had a hair trigger.

    Yeah, Casanova, this guy is probably not.

    ...They had that whole discussion at the door? Well, I expect his neighbours enjoyed the show. :D

    Guessing he intended to move in with her. Or rather, her with him...

    ...Awkward. Only thing more guilt-heavy than a devoutly Hispanic mom is a Jewish one. Edit: :confused: That didn't come out to well, did it. Suffice to say, I meant Catholic guilt-tripping, especially compared to a Jewish momma... Religious icons of choice aside..

    Probably would have been easier. Amazed that hasn't happened more yet. Maybe the ladies don't realise that's an option.

    Feeling a bit bitter after your little road-trip, huh?

    Well, he does like to play the role to the hilt...

    Yes, that would be an interesting tale.

    Wonder if she came in in traditional dress or modern? The former might well have made her seem like a Wonder Woman fangirl or something. :p

    A sensible option. If you had this time, none of you would be in this situation...

    ...Goodness, he's serious about it. Guess she made an impression on him.

    Bit of a role reversal, really. Less respectable men might have been fine with 'done and run'.

    Why spoil the swindle? Wonder if she really did just ditch him or if there were some deeper feeling she might have been afraid to allow out? She has several partners back home. I doubt she wanted to ditch them for a single man and leave hurt feelings behind...

    Ah, planning to have him tell his side to the Forum?

    If it sounds scary, just think of it as meeting her family. :confused: ...No, wait, that probably makes it worse.

    I figured this sub-plot would turn up sooner or later. Even if OL claimed he wasn't concerned, this could leave a stain on Themyscira's international reputation. Even if there's men out there willing to play sperm donor for a hot Amazon, some might be interested in relationships. And perhaps some of the ladies will eventually start having thoughts of settling down with men elsewhere... It's only a matter of time, really.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2022
  19. Cuchulin

    Cuchulin Versed in the lewd.

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    Also, in the Ancient world? Especially in many parts of ancient Greece? Men usually had Male lovers, women were more for breeding or entertainment. At least that is what the surviving writings of the upper class seems to indicate.
    So, she was likely thinking that she would mean as little to him as he did to her.
     
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  20. Neruz

    Neruz HISSSSSS!

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    The ancient Greeks were a lot more casual about sex than modern Western societies are, as well.
     
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  21. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    In the myths, that is what Amazons did to reproduce- Go out, find a guy to knock them up, and then leave when they did their part.

    Never to be seen again unless the resulting child was male, in which case if they didn't kill the child out right they'd return the son to his father.

    So I'm guessing this is ignorance and not malice on the Amazon's part, yeah- She thought he knew what the deal was, and never intended to lead him on or cause him emotional distress, because 3000 years ago any man she met would have known that an Amazon was looking for a sperm donor and not a boyfriend/husband.
     
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  22. Old Knife

    Old Knife Not too sore, are you?

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    I mean in comparison to Clark? In armor/outside of armor.
    Connor is weaker but it seems like his weaknesses have been shored up quite a bit
    I'm curious about what is his weight class now considering that he's got all of that good stuff plus the ton of sparring partners.

    Is he at least on WW's level?
    He's gotta be good at fighting now considering he's in Thymscyra.
     
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  23. Bud-E

    Bud-E Stand up so I can push you down!

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    Was Medina dressed in modern clothes when they met? cause Rodriguez says he didn't know she was an amazon.
     
  24. Sojiko

    Sojiko Getting sticky.

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    I had no idea it was that much of a miscommunication.
     
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  25. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    No, they had festivals and anyone who turned up in an Amazon city at that time of year knew what was up.
    Thank you, corrected.

    My keyboard's 'H' key has gotten dodgy. Does anyone have any recomendations for a new keyboard?
    Not in Sparta, you Athenian boy-lover.
    She's gay and European!
     
  26. Lord Ernest

    Lord Ernest At the End...

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    The guy just said that it was when she left when he found out where she was from. That is definitely omiting critical information. I'm fairly certain that when people flirt, in most occasions, the question "so, where are you from?" comes up, unless the other individual gives the impression of being from the locale itself during the conversation I suppose.

    I can't imagine she having a New York accent, so what did she answer, huh? Because Amazons don't seem to identify with Greece, I don't even know if they know what Europe is, actually. And if they did, I would think they would understand a bit more nuance of the modern world.

    I can't read that as ignorance or misinformation, there might no have been malice but the guy was straight up being mislead. Even the Illustres thought that it was originally a brief hook up, one night stand type of deal. What reason was there to not be upfront about her objective? Did she not get the briefing about "Man's World" before crossing the Gate? To me the lady is an asshole. And again, if the genders were switched, effigies would be getting burned.
     
  27. RoninSword

    RoninSword Sky God

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    Right before OL and others tried going back to Earth-666 with Kara-666, OL mentions that Medina had been told repeatedly that the way she went about it was not the way that Man's World did things anymore (before she went out). So she either didn't listen or didn't care. Or thought she could get away with it regardless.
     
  28. BR549

    BR549 This is filth! FILTH!!

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    You don't usually explain to someone what you 'know' they already know.

    How much of airline safety briefings do people actually listen to?

    She might be. She might not. We haven't heard her side of the story yet.

    Truth is a three-edged sword: your truth, my truth, and the truth. - Kosh Naranek

    Probably. But that doesn't make the effigy-burners right.

    Erm...a Jewish mom wouldn't have given her son a crucifix. It's kind of illustrating the major difference between Judaism and Christianity.

    That said Catholic Mom Guilt would be a thing, although that Venn diagram's circle does overlap heavily with the Hispanic one.
     
  29. Karmic Acumen

    Karmic Acumen The long-suffering one

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    I don't believe this for a second. Being thousands of years old means you should know more, not less. She seduced a man on false pretenses, led him on until he literally fell in love, and then fucked off when she got what she wanted.

    It's like being a gold digger, except for genes, gold isn't as precious as a child, and you're at least aware and make the choice yourself to give a floozy money.

    Whether or not the guy decides this is forgivable, it is NOT excusable.
     
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  30. LZB1285

    LZB1285 Getting sticky.

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    Why? She's lived an isolated life for those thousands of years, she know her area and people very well. They all know how this all works, what she hasn't internalized is that the rest of the world doesn't. The rules of the world have changed and they, been isolated, didn't change with it.

    Social conventions can cause problems between one town and the next due to ignorance. Add a few thousand years and a few thousand miles...

    It boils down to what she's been told vs what she knows.
     
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