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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Tyrantviewer

    Tyrantviewer lord of all I survey

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    I would like to Recommend the Overly Sarcastic Podcast's videos on superman


    and


    Which cover things like, why Superman killing everyone is actually a bad thing, and why a number of "gritty" depictions of superman fall flat, and how to actually use the character.

    I think Zoat is doing fine, this arc is all about reconciling how Paul finds traditional Superheroism inefficient with his desire to be a paragon hero, a disonance he didn't realize until he learned what alt Scott was doing.

    Overall Paul has been doing a good job, working with various governments and authorities to change and do thing traditional heroes don't. I look forward to how this arc shakes out though, in terms of sorting out Paul's feelings and what will change with him going forward.
     
  2. _The_Bomb

    _The_Bomb Getting sticky.

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    SI directly referenced the prophecy once he learned Sodam Yat’s name.
     
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  3. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    He's aware that there is one, just just doesn't know what's in it.

    Kind of like Anakin.
     
  4. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    "as I feel"

    "could make"
     
  5. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    The same applies to Batman and people sho complain about him not killing.
     
  6. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Assuming his species wets themselves when they're afraid.
     
  7. rkyeun

    rkyeun Cabbitus Maximus

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    It may not be true with alien life, but excretion is a nearly universal response to overwhelming fear in Terran life forms. It dates all the way back to prekaryotes (ancestor of prokaryotes and eukaryotes, sister to archae), where when something attacked you, you dumped your vacuoles of sugars and poisons and wastes hoping that it would either be fed enough to think it got you or poisoned enough to be incapable of holding you, or repulsed enough to stop trying. That reasoning seems like it SHOULD apply even to alien life.
     
  8. Nervaqus987

    Nervaqus987 Experienced.

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    Why would you put bombs in your food?
     
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  9. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
     
  10. Karmic Acumen

    Karmic Acumen The long-suffering one

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    Still doesn't change that the US has the death penalty. Joker should have been executed the second time he went on a rampage. By the DOJ. No, I'm not buying the insanity plea.

    Also, I am convinced SCOTUS would make an exception for supervillains regardless.
     
  11. Assblaster5000

    Assblaster5000 I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Batmite. The thing keeping Joker and most of Gotham's supervillains alive is Batmite saying they get to live. There is literally nothing anyone in any legal system can do to kill Batman's villains so long as they continue to force Batman to grow as a person/hero because of how rabid a fanboy Batmite is.
     
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  12. Vaermina

    Vaermina Experienced.

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    Because they weren't actually using them as food, they were using them as hostages and taunting LePaul by pretending they were food.
     
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  13. Assblaster5000

    Assblaster5000 I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    ... One of the Guilders literally ate one as Paragon arrived, and the leader was about to do the same before he was killed. These people were chattel firstly, and hostages to anyone that cared enough about them to try and fight The Spider Guild second.

    This is a Vaermina response.
     
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  14. Lord Ernest

    Lord Ernest At the End...

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    I agree, but at the end of the day, Batmite=status quo. It's the nature of serialized comics itself that keeps the setting like that. Anything within the medium is just an excuse created by the writers/artists themselves to keep certain characters available.

    Hate to compare, but if in a manga an enemy/villain is defeated and captured you usually wouldn't see him again unless there is a really significant event that would make it possible.

    In Gotham, the Joker should not have been able to escape, and if he did, after that first time you have to present permanent solutions. Or execute him, or have him sedated forever, or anything else.
     
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  15. Cuchulin

    Cuchulin Versed in the lewd.

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    Indeed, once he made it a dick measuring contest, he no longer had a point.
     
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  16. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Versed in the lewd.

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    That's why I really like the version of him here in the story. I want to see how powerful he could be after Awakening.
     
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  17. Threadmarks: Uncomplicated Good Works (part 16)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    18th December 2012
    22:59 GMT


    Superman looks a little green. Looks like he didn't get there in time for everyone, either.

    "Do you want to head home?"

    "No. This wasn't the first time I've seen this."

    "The Sheeda?"

    "That was the first time I saw industrial murder supported by an entire civilisation. But the first time I saw a lot of dead people in one place was after an apartment fire in Lahore. I'd been Superman for about two years at the time. I saw the news on television, flew there as fast as I could, and..."

    I nod. "I remember reading about that. Ah. Do you want to talk about why I did what I did here, or do you want to leave it?"

    He looks down at the ground, eyes narrowing as he combines x-ray and telescopic vision to take in as much as possible.

    "Does this sort of thing happen a lot out here?"

    "If you mean 'somewhere in the universe', then, probably. If you mean 'do I have to deal with it regularly', no. There was… Something not too dissimilar when we were fighting the Reach at the very edge of their territory, but Vega wasn't this bad."

    "That part of the Guild didn't eat people?"

    "That part of the Guild had run out of people to eat and were realistic about their circumstances." I shrug as we watch the Spider Guild ships under the Queen's authority come in to land. "And the Queen hadn't really had any choice in her diet prior to their Elder's deaths."

    "Okay. Could you have stunned the Elder?" I glance-. "I'm not saying that you should have, I'm asking if you could."

    "Almost certainly. It would have taken me an extra fraction of a second which might have given the robots time to shoot a hostage or two, but I'm aware that there's a difference between killing someone and failing to save them. But if I had… What happens then?"

    "You tell me."

    "Feigning surrender is a war crime on Earth, though I can't immediately call to mind any trials taking place."

    "I don't think he surrendered."

    "Then it's treason during wartime, and that will get you executed in America too. The other Elders had surrendered, and that's usually definitive. Even if I'd taken him alive, he'd have been executed… Well, now, and frankly keeping him under control would have been a distraction."

    "And the wounded spider?"

    "He knew what the Elders had decided. He backed the renegade faction. I don't think that the Queen will demand the death of everyone here, but any senior people who are still alive are probably…"

    Ring, summary of Spider Guild punishments?

    "Apparently, the Spider Guild version of 'decimation' is 'halving'."

    "Will she do that?"

    "If she wants to keep control, she'll… Have to at least do something along those lines. And if she.. doesn't, then she's in violation of her treaty obligations with her new neighbours and they might decide to finish this place off for her."

    "How many worlds does the Spider Guild control?"

    "I don't know. I know it's at least two hundred and-" He twitches. "-eighty. The actual… Core of their space along with what is probably their homeworld is a long way from here, but they're willing to travel very long distances."

    "What do they eat there?"

    "Oh, they have a licensing system for importers. My personal suspicion is that they maintain a breeding population, but that's more because I've tried to think how I'd handle it if I were them than any actual intelligence."

    I give a black-humoured laugh as the ship lands and the Queen exits the landing ramp.

    "Of course, you have to remember that they're not species-prejudiced. They'll eat each other, too. One of their insults is 'you're so stupid that even your mate wouldn't eat you'."

    "Yes, I-."

    The Queen picks up the most senior surviving member of the garrison and shoves his head into her mouth, holding his convulsing body in her hands as she chews at a leisurely pace.

    "I see. And you're okay with this."

    "If I was okay with it, I wouldn't have intervened. I'm not okay with piracy and cannibalism. That meant that the Guild had to go. I'd prefer to avoid extermination where reform is possible, which means defeating them and handing them over to the Queen because she's the only person they'll accept."

    "Why not just isolate them?"

    "Because space is really big. And while individual septs don't mind other septs getting knocked back every so often, they will send a relief force if aliens look like they're going to knock one out. And because without a plan they probably would end up eating each other because they're dependent on imports. And because all the local stellar nations want them destroyed. And because the Orange Lantern Corps is too busy with the Reach to intervene in force, and the Reach are worse."

    "Worse than a civilisation of cannibals?"

    "The Spider Guild rarely exterminates intelligent species. The Reach does as a matter of course. We actually.. have interview recordings of species on the verge of extinction, and they're so brainwashed that they're happy about it. And…"

    I make a helpless gesture with both arms as the Queen keeps eating.

    "This is me trying to be nice."

    "What would you have done before the JSI?"

    "Not sure. Killed them all and then destroyed the fleets of the nearest septs so they didn't have reinforcements to send, maybe. How about you?"

    Respect to the man, he hesitates and thinks about it.

    "If I hadn't seen this, I think I'd have crippled their ships and space stations and hoped they'd have the sense to quit."

    "And the relief force?"

    "I'd have tried to convince the locals to prepare to fight them, and try warning them off myself."

    "Kal-El, this isn't just a group of raiders, this would be an actual military force. You aren't immune to levels of energy their main weapons can discharge. Spider Guild ships are heavily automated, so they aren't slowed by organic response times. I strongly recommend not trying to fight entire warfleets."

    "Sometimes, you don't have a choice."

    "Sometimes, you have a choice and don't see it."

    I shake my head.

    "I killed a wounded man I could have healed and killed people I could have contained. And for the life of me I can't see a better solution."
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
  18. hance1986

    hance1986 A pitiful excuse for a man.

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    should be ' to the levels '
     
  19. Handlewithcare

    Handlewithcare Versed in the lewd.

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    Idealist vs Realist.

    The question Paul is trying to answer is if it's Jaded Realist Who Just Isn't Trying Hard Enough
     
  20. Cuchulin

    Cuchulin Versed in the lewd.

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    There are Aliens and then there are Aliens. Superman is used to dealing those that have a more or less human like mentality.
     
  21. Windona

    Windona Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

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    Interesting. Especially since a lot of the issues are part of context. Superman is thinking on an Earth basis, because his methods are adapted to Metropolis and Earth at large. Part of OL's issues is that he is taking a Space basis and bringing it to Earth.
     
  22. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

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    No shame in calling it quits, Clark. Not everyone's cut out for this kind of... Well, there's a reason some people are left fucked up mentally and/or physically for years after any major war. :oops: And something on this scale...

    A reasonable guess. But shit can get this fucked up even in accidents.

    I don't doubt the firefighters on the scene there did all they could to comfort him, too. And they'd probably seen worse.

    There's shit on the internet that makes you wonder who would film things like what they did... :( And simply, some people are that fucked up...

    ...Not once the Queen took over, at least.

    If the extra moment let him finish the bite he was starting on that child? Would you take that chance?

    Remember, Clark: No Geneva Conventions out here. For some races, lives are cheap.

    Just the opposite, I believe. Going by the dialogue yesterday, he was basically rebelling against the others' decision to give in.

    Wrong place, wrong moment. If that had been the last chamber to be cleared, he might have been lucky to live...

    ...Is it going to be something Clark won't really want to watch?

    For reference, he means 'decimation' as in 'removing one tenth of the whole'. What it actually meant before people began to use it in a hyperbolic fashion....

    If nothing else, it'll make it easier for her to control them if they're her offspring, with her programming.

    With a population that large? Probably anything they can.

    Let's hope they aren't quite that intelligent. :confused: It would make it all the more horrific.

    Gee, how delightful. But I expect they'd rather have non-Spider flesh if they could.

    ...It says a lot that he's simply watching this, and not looking away or moving to stop her. Probably too fatigued by the things he's seen today...

    ...Even though acceptance probably means a good chance of being devoured. Alien mindsets and moralities...

    Sort of a 'we may not like those guys, but we can't let the food think they can fight back against us all.' logic, then. Half of their power comes from other species fear of being captured by them...

    Going to their deaths with a smile, huh? At that point, they're probably better off dead anyway...

    I'm guessing there would be a lot more orange if he weren't.

    ...Which would probably result in you having to go after their neighbours, and then the neighbours after that to stop a chain of reprisals.

    They wouldn't. Sadly, they would not quit. And I think you realise that now.

    That would just get you shot in the face with their biggest gun... They need to send a message, after all...

    ...That much is true, yes. But it's still better to not have to in the first place.

    And that's at the root of this whole issue, isn't it? You want to be able to see a better way, but life just won't play along...

    Hopefully, seeing what he did won't leave Clark too messed up. Last thing we need is a Gangbuster incident. But at least now, he has some insight into why OL works the way he does. Ultimately, I think OL might need to compartmentalise his methods more. Like Windona said, he's using the methods developed for Space on Earth, and Earth just doesn't work that way... But he's clearly struggling to build his own 'Earth rules of engagement' for himself. Perhaps a bit of time working with other super-heroic groups might help him recalibrate.
     
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  23. Cuchulin

    Cuchulin Versed in the lewd.

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    Yes, though the original Roman version was killing every tenth member of a Legion to stiffen the spines of the rest.

    Almost certainly.
     
  24. Duke Long

    Duke Long Know what you're doing yet?

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    ’they’re’
     
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  25. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    No, I think that's okay.
    Thank you, corrected.
     
  26. Vaermina

    Vaermina Experienced.

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    That's a you problem boy.

    There's some pretty simple solutions to the whole Spider Guild problem. One's which don't involve murder or mind control. The fact you can't think of them... Well... As I said... That's a you problem...
     
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  27. FreeGod

    FreeGod If you see a God on the road fuck it!

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    Actually it was a punishment for a legion routing. Each 9 troops were required to beat the 10th one to death. It actually wasn't done much despite the threats because once that was done that legion was done for might as well break it up.

    Of course the Romen empire had a long history over alot of area. I fully expect that decimation has meant many different things over it's history.
     
  28. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Versed in the lewd.

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    Pretty sure there isn't, if the Guardians couldn't think of one after all this time.
     
  29. Doccer

    Doccer I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Shouldn't this include something like "All so I could save a few more extra lives." Between the first and last sentence to punctuate the why? Other than that this is very quotable to me.
     
  30. Karmic Acumen

    Karmic Acumen The long-suffering one

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    This is what happens when a character originally from a universe where aliens were benign damsels in distress is grandfathered into grimderpolis.
     
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