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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. Karmic Acumen

    Karmic Acumen The long-suffering one

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    Didn't that kinda already happen when Paul got soul-bombed out of enlightenment and life?
    If you're proven right about this, it better just be down to Reach self-importance, because I'll have trouble accepting that everything the Reach threw at the OLC up to now were just tokenisms. At some point the worfing cycle has to stop.
     
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  2. WereDragon

    WereDragon Bookwyrm

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    One think we can be certain of is that the Reach think the GLC would kick their arse.

    After the treaty was signed the Reach, logical psychopaths that they are, sat down and decided to re-spec their empire massively to specialise in ‘legal’ subversion rather than risk round two. Even centuries / millennia later, having gained vast amounts of new territory and (presumably) advanced their technology significantly they still go to great lengths to not break the treaty.
     
  3. Old Knife

    Old Knife Not too sore, are you?

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    Paul knows God is hands off. Still shouldn't be poking the actual omnipotent.
     
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  4. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
     
  5. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Assuming they're even told about it.

    The Reqch Empird is big, so it's possible that the loss of some of those territories wasn't all ghat noticeable to them.

    Plus, she's spent years watching the Reach win, so she wants payback.
     
  6. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Technically, yes.

    However, that didn't exactly stick and Paul got better.

    I was thinking of something more permanent happening.
     
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  7. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    I have a theory on why the OLC seems to be doing much better than the GLC when it comes to fighting the Reach.

    The Reach isn't as competent in military matters as they once were.

    They've been getting territory and victories by using manipulation and subterfuge rather military might since their treaty with the Guardians, so their experience with fighting in a war has probably eroded a long time ago.

    Whenever they've had to fight someone after the treaty they could have probably overwhelmed them with numbers or superior technology rather than actual tactics.

    The OLC is fighting a Reach that hasn't fought a serious war in who knows how long.

    The GLC fought a Reach that had both advanced tech and were able to fight a war with experience.
     
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  8. Karmic Acumen

    Karmic Acumen The long-suffering one

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    That was it. And it should stay it. Soul annihilation is already the domain of divinity. Actually, it's above the domain of a lot of divinity.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2022
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  9. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Then there won't really be much tension in this story and it won't feel like there are any stakes involved in the fight, so the Reach lose a lot of their potential menace and the fight can feel pointless.
     
  10. Karmic Acumen

    Karmic Acumen The long-suffering one

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    This argument never fails to disappoint me, violence is and never has been the only way to write tension. And even if it was, at this point I can live with the 'loss' better than the alternative. As I added above, soul annihilation is already the domain of divinity. Actually, it's above the domain of a lot of divinity. No amount of tension will buy emotional payoff if it's not credible by the setting's standards. And Zoat clearly recognizes this because he's quite meaningfully pivoted back to interpersonal conflict for tension.

    And dreams.
     
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  11. Ardy

    Ardy Not too sore, are you?

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    One of Jade’s teammates misheard what Guy thought Paul’s visit to Jade was for. Now every time he visits they think it’s about “Paul’s dong”
     
  12. Windona

    Windona Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

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    Unless I missed something in nu52, Super Scarabs aren't a thing in canon. Might be referring to the fic.

    The OLC is probably doing better in part because surprise, concentration of power, and the Reach having changed to infiltration tactics. Reach wrote their rules of engagement for the GLC, which has tighter rules and is more about control. OLC is only really concerned with a comparatively small portion of space, recruiting specifically those who want to beat the Reach and who risk mental instability for greater raw power... and that mental instability isn't inherently beneficial to the Reach.

    Compare the GLC, that the Reach presumably knew about before fighting, who are spread across the galaxy, and whose issue with willpower will depower more than the OLC's issues with their light
     
  13. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I mean, the reason is pretty self evident

    You have to keep in mind that the GLC is a police force not a military, which means it’s members aren’t trained in how to fight in an actual war and every Lantern that gets sent to fight the Reach would be a sector missing it’s primarily law enforcer. It’s not that the GLC couldn’t beat the Reach back in the day it’s that the time and resources it would take would undercut the actual purpose of the GLC

    Conversely the OLC was created specifically to fight this war, the average Orange Lantern is stronger than the average Green Lantern, the Controllers are far more actively involved and they’re backed up by various allied groups like NEMO, LEGION and the Darkstars
    Thats… kind of Paul’s point though?

    Even before the OLC was founded the Controllers were putting up more of a fight against the Reach than the Guardians were and since it’s founding they’ve successfully managed to push them back

    There is seemingly nothing stopping the Guardians from taking some steps to stop the Reach, the fact that they haven’t is somewhat of an indication that they’re at least happy enough with the current arrangement to not change anything about how they operate
     
  14. Windona

    Windona Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

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    While Paul does have a point about the Reach, because the Guardians are so wide spread I can see that they don't focus on the Reach because that would mean taking resources away from dealing with issues like, say, potentially Apokalypse, Warworld, and other various issues in space. Please note Vega is what happens when GLs aren't in a sector of space for a while, compared to other sectors that seem more stable/less awful
     
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  15. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Oh I get that but the war with the Reach was thousands of years ago I believe and the Guardians haven’t done anything to fix that flaw in the GLC’s design and aren’t doing anything about the Reach skirting the treaty, at the very least they find the treaty acceptable enough to not have adjusted anything in response to it
     
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  16. Coda

    Coda I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    g-gnomes

    Wow. I knew this was a self-insert story, but that's the most directly self-congratulatory post I've ever seen.
     
  17. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    In the show, the GLC was shown to still be at war with the Reach and Apokalips, which in YJ is actively conquering planets instead of Darkseid being a huge wheeny waiting for the next power up as usual.

    So I'd say the issue is that the Guardians just considered Apokalips the more immediate threat and saw a war on two fronts inefficient.

    Both seem like logical conclusions.

    As for more powerful scarab warriors, that's easy enough.

    1- More powerful hosts. Plenty of aliens with superpowers in DC, after all. Already seen in YJ canon with the Martian Green Scarab.

    2- Add weaponry. In the comics they were shown to make a Sinestro corps Scarab warrior, and were shown trying to assimilate the Blue Lanterns post flashpoint. Neither seems likely in this story, but the principle holds true regardless.

    Let's see, let's look at Green Lantern foes for possible power ups like say Evil Star's Star Brand- The fact it makes people insane is probably not an issue for the scarab controlled warriors. Kind of like Ted's cosmic staff, but Ted's staff doesn't have the habit of making people go insane so there's that.
     
  18. Windona

    Windona Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

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    Scarabs are incredibly adaptable normally, though they are way more powerful in the comics than YJ as per usual. (Khaji Da can make a weapon with theological implications in the comics). Blood scarabs are something from *bleck* new 52 Blue Beetle. But I cannot think of something that's specifically called a super scarab, hence me going ???

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the Reach attempted yellow Lantern scarabs, but other colors might be more difficult depending on color. And actually, I can see the tech of Earth appealing as much as metas for the Reach as a result.
     
  19. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Thank you, corrected.
    I saw the problem at work, and I needed to remind myself to fix it on my home copy.
    Khaji Da claims to be able to create a weapon with theological implications. It also isn't a Christian, holding the Writ of the Reach as sacred rather than an omnipotent deity.
     
  20. Windona

    Windona Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

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    I think Khaji Da rejected the holy writ, and ended up spreading a new philosophy that led to the criminally underbaked/used KDRA. And that was said while offering options to fight the Spectre, who claims to be the wrath of God.

    Still, point stands that Khaji Da and other scarabs are traditionally pretty dang powerful, especially since they were made to contend with lanterns and in many ways are a mirror to Lantern rings/corps without using anything from the emotional spectrum.
     
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  21. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    The weapon was called an "Implicate-Order Annihilation Field."

    The implicate order is the "deeper reality," is has been interpreted as space-time or quantum entanglement.

    So the implication is that it destroys space-time itself, or separates every single particle of the target from every other particle in the universe, it doesn't just destroy the target, it takes a bit of creation and uncreates it.

    Similar in concept to the Breathing Gun from the Nightside series by Simon R Green, made from Lilith's rib, which uncreates targets by speaking the words of creation backwards.
     
  22. Vaermina

    Vaermina Experienced.

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    You're missing the point, it's not about changing the war.

    Because as said, the Guardians could beat The Reach.

    But the death toll of doing that would be... The entire Reach population... Most of the conquered populations... The dozens, possibly hundreds possibly thousands, of inhabited planets the Reach would destroy because they have nothing left to loose...

    So in the face of that the Guardians did the smart thing, they forged a deal with the Reach that slowed the Reach's expansion to a crawl and put them under immense cultural pressure to change their ways. Does that suck for the handful of planets/species the Reach subvert during this time? Absolutely. But the Guardian's understood that the available alternatives were much much worse.

    And that's a question everyone in NEMO has been avoiding, The Reach aren't the Spider Guild, they're a near peer of the Guardians, so what are The Reach going to do when they actually get desperate?
     
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  23. Someguy Somewhere

    Someguy Somewhere The Critical Fumbler

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    Green Lantern Corps also went into a war with their 'thou shalt not kill' rule intact.

    Orange Lantern Corps never had such a rule on the books.

    Power Rings are Awesome.....Power Rings without restrictions on Lethal Force are more so.

    EDIT:

    This is also something that might short circuit the creation of the Sinestro Corps, as team Orange is doing something that (in the comics) Sinestro wanted from the start. Sinestro pushed his own corps forward not to win, but to force the guardians to unshackle the Greens to allow for lethal force.

    Sinestro's easiest option for ring creation got pinched by Paul, so he's done some sort of deputy ring projection thing for that abbot fellow that played with the yellow light. He clearly has some motives for his own Lantern Corps still, but lacks some of the means to create one right now. He's talked to Dox and knows something of the Orange Light....aside from the short introduction of the local Indigo Lanterns we don't know any other sources for ring creation at this time aside from the Guardians, Controllers and The Hippies.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2022
  24. Stsword

    Stsword Versed in the lewd.

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    In the comics, sure, here in this story I don't see the Qwardians handing out yellow power rings any time soon.
     
  25. Windona

    Windona Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

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    Yeah, hence the 'attempt'. Though Sinestro already has a yellow lantern ring, his exact position regarding Reach and OLC isn't super clear.
     
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  26. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Zoat, the spoiler box with the link is missing the date and time where the scene is happening.
     
  27. Threadmarks: Digging a Hole
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    12th Sigmarzeit 2512
    Afternoon


    It is said that dwarfs have no word for 'sorry'.

    "…because Burri the Short failed to hold…"

    That isn't exactly true. The English word 'sorry' can be used in a wide variety of situations, several of which appear quite distinct when viewed objectively. Consider the difference between a 'sorry' used as an apology for bumping into someone in the corridor, then contrast it with someone saying sorry for running someone over with a car and crippling them for life. Or when it's used sarcastically, to indicate that the target is being a big baby about something.

    "…logistics make it completely impossible…"

    Dwarfs don’t have a way to say 'sorry' for bumping into someone. Even dwarfs with a history of personal enmity will usually let it go so as to not appear physically fragile. Apparently, the closest to a 'sorry' that's appropriate is actually a mildly embarrassing gesture; a trivial penalty for a trivial offence.

    "…combed it slightly more often then maybe…"

    For a significant injury, the closest to a word for sorry more literally means 'I accept responsibility and will make restitution', though it has a very similar effect. Even angry dwarfs will generally calm down a little when they hear it, if they think that the offer is genuine. There is in theory no injury that can't be paid for with sufficient quantities of gold or other valuables. A grudge will be recorded, but it can be crossed off as 'paid in full' almost immediately.

    "…misfired more often…"

    I haven't dared ask about sarcasm yet.

    "…daughters with false beards-."

    "Gentlemen!"

    The Longbeards of Stonecutters Clan and Strongaxe Clan suddenly remember that I'm here, their eyes darting my way even as their bodies square up to one another.

    Harl Stonecutter is the first to remember to glare.

    "What did you call me, human?"

    "I called you a 'gentleman'. It's a polite and formal form of address in my society. If you would rather be called something else, I will happily acquiesce. But I fear that we're getting off topic."

    Sven Strongaxe jabs his right hand at his opposite number, though fortunately his axe has so far remained in his belt.

    "Did you hear what he said about-!"

    I raise my hands in a warding gesture.

    "Did he say anything about the contract we are here to discuss?"

    Sven shifts his glare to Harl. Harl glares back. Sven moves his glare back to me.

    "No."

    "If he said anything -if either of you said anything- that relates to another grudge held by your clans against a human, I'll be happy to talk to you about it in another meeting. If you have other grudges against each other, those are nothing to do with me. But for now, let us focus on getting this grudge resolved."

    There's a certain amount of muttered grumbling, but they both slowly return to their pre-outburst positions.

    "Thank you. Now." My eyes drop down to look at the two contracts in front of me, both containing near-identical terms and both embossed with the seals of both clans and with the seal of a now-extinct family of Ostland nobility. "I can find no fault in the contracts and no real difference in their terms. And since I cannot meaningfully trace the inheritors of the Empire side of the contract, it meets my stated requirements for settling outstanding debts."

    Another round of muttering, but this time it sounds a little more satisfied.

    "The total value for the contact is stated as being fifty thousand gold crowns, and you have both accepted that half of the total payment was delivered prior to the commencement of the work. This leaves twenty five thousand gold crowns owing. I have consulted with High King Thorgrim concerning the usual penalty fees in situations like this, and he advised me that when payment is tardy due to the death of everyone who knew about the debt, an additional ten percent is usually acceptable. Are you both prepared to agree that twenty seven thousand five hundred is acceptable for full payment?"

    They glare at each other for several moments. The ten percent thing is normal but it's informal. Since there's no penalty schedule in the contract itself they can ask for a good deal more if they want. But… While they aren't poor clans, neither of them are exactly rich either. That's a nice chunk of cash. And they have to agree on the penalty fee together and they dislike each other more than they do me.

    "Aye." / "Yes."

    "Good show." I hold out my right hand, a locked chest filled with bags of gold coins appearing on the stone floor next to me. "Would the actuaries of both clans please step forward?"

    A small group of dwarfs on each side get a nod from their respective thanes and then walk towards the chest, careful to keep their distance from one another. A click and the locks disengage and the lid lifts up.

    "Please perform a full count and confirm that the amount is as required. If I have miscounted, then you have merely to inform me and I will make good the difference."

    Abacuses are removed from belts and chalk sticks are raised in anger. Dwarf financial specialists are just as thorough in their area of expertise as dwarf engineers and craftsmen are in theirs.

    "Now, as for assigning payment, to my way of thinking there are two ways we can handle this. The surviving copies of the contract don't specify which clan gets what proportion of the payment."

    Which hasn't mattered much to the humans involved, but has encouraged tremendous ill-feeling between the dwarf clans involved.

    "The fact is that no matter what we might suspect, we don't know exactly who is owed what. I am happy to split the payment exactly in half and pay half to each of you. I-."

    I raise my arms as they both start to complain.

    "I fully accept that that most likely doesn't reflect the work done by the workers of either clan or the raw materials provided by either clan. I offer it as a possibility because none of us know. That would get the grudge paid immediately, which is why I like it."

    And that's why the argument started. It sounded so simple at the start; a surviving written contract with an amount stated upon it. But the receipts were burned and everyone who knew exactly who did what died when the fortification they built was overrun by Chaos-worshipping raiders. Both clans know that the other did at least some work, but without knowing exactly how much they both feel that anything other than all of the money risks the other side getting more than they're due.

    Dwarfs. Gotta love 'em.

    Neither lead delegate looks happy with the offer. I asked Thorgrim about just paying them both the full value plus the penalty fee and he looked at me like I'd just offered to fart in his mother's face, so that's off the table.

    "Okay, before we get off track again, it looks like neither of you are happy about that idea. The other option is that I lodge the coin with King Thorgrim and he has actuaries not affiliated with either of your clans go through your surviving contemporary records in an effort to work out what you're likely to be owed. It won't be the right amount because it can't be, but it will be closer to the right amount than a fifty/fifty split. If you choose that option, you'll both record the grudge as being paid by the humans involved and lay the onus for sorting out the rest with the High King."

    "Gentlemen. High King Thorgrim has expressed his desire for grudges to be repaid. I'm offering payment. I get the impression that you want the money you are owed. But no one can force you to mark a grudge as repaid. How do you want this to happen?"

    Thorgim's not going to thank me for this one.

    15th Sigmarzeit 2512
    Morning


    Thorgrim stares at me as ranks of dwarfs on pews all around us begin leafing through the ancient ledgers covering their desks.

    "I'll not be thanking you for this one, human."

    I look down at the floor.

    "Yeah. I know."
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2022
  28. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Versed in the lewd.

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    Just to confirm, this is Paol, the guy who ended up in Warhammer and is in a relationship with an undead queen?
     
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  29. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    "are just"

    Ahh, paperwork.

    The bane of men and dwarfs.
     
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  30. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Yep.

    Unlike Saul, this one actually fucked a corpse.
     
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