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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. gattsuru

    gattsuru Getting out there.

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    Fun to see this episode mentioned. It’s the furry talking, but it always felt like a missed opportunity: there’s a lot of fascinating human enhancement questions that get pushed aside in favor of a glorified steroid PSA.

    You’ve got some room to play around with, since the law of the 2030s Beyondverse may not be the law of today’s real world, but the FDA’s power to limit administration of a cleared medicine or procedure is much more limited than its ability to regulate production or advertising of such. Individual doctors and pharmacists can (and in the real world do!) give drugs for ‘off-label’ uses that the FDA has not cleared, and enforcement and regulation usually falls more to state regulatory boards (or police). Some of Cuvier claims during news stories flirted pretty heavily with the sort of thing the FDA's would slap down, but that's not really a claim you could bring against Gotham police.

    Similarly, courts have a surprisingly wide power to medicate defendants when necessary; while Sell v US put some limits on forced medication, the criminal splicers almost certainly hit them all. Cuvier, if he survived, obviously wouldn’t be able to face a courtroom or be contained as a blob monster, but the gang splicers would have a lot of overlap with schizophrenia in the ‘uncontrollable impulse’ sense given both what we see here and the later Joker hyena-splicer. With the limits of court-ordered psych evaluation, probably even if the gang members were just predisposed to violence rather than driven to it by the splicing like McGinnis nearly was.

    A ban on "being spliced", rather than against new splicing... be complicated. Sell requires a per-defendant analysis by judges, and the courts have a messy relationship with pure status crimes. Might be more plausible given the whole supervillain thing (and maybe Boss Smiley, if he's present and unchecked in that universe?).

    That said, the intellectual property question may be hard. In-show, Cuvier insisted that splicing was reversible, and had submitted his drugs for clinical trials. Even if he’d stolen PaulTech, that’s just add to Cuvier’s crimes in the manufacturing, rather than be given obvious ways to get money or the drugs back from Gotham police (though it could tie it up in courts long enough to talk sense into people).

    Even under state emergency powers laws, the US federal takings clause applies: private property can't be used for public use, without due compensation. There's some exceptions you can drive a truck through, though. If the splicing 'recovery' drugs were taken from Cuvier's legal possession (even if they were really PaulTech!), there's a lot of ways this could be treated as part of Cuvier's crimes or proceeds thereof, and similar to how police can take, destroy, or resell a firearm used as part of a criminal act, there's a lot of space relevant here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
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  2. Someguy Somewhere

    Someguy Somewhere The Critical Fumbler

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    Spoilers for Batman Beyond / JLU and Theory based on it

    So...the Splicing Tech used to bolt animal DNA onto a human....hmmm. Sounds pretty close to the same DNA tech that Cadmas / Old Waller would have needed to pull off the 'Rewrite Reproductive DNA of Terry's Dad to a copy of Bruce's. In the OG verse the tech is very likely to be related, and if so, in this setting it may be that Terry himself may owe Peter and Co for his existance. While it's never said openly, their is some logic and implications in the fact that Terry's Father divorced his mother after not one, but two of 'their' children came out with dark hair that neither parent had. '
     
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  3. SotF

    SotF And Away We Go!

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    You know, in that era, I could also see him going after most of the groups involved in the Zeta Project as well...because there's already several fully sapient robots/androids/AI running around, but they go full on blade runner to track down and capture Zeta...
     
  4. MadMarx420

    MadMarx420 Not too sore, are you?

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    So wanted to ask, some chapters ago Paul talked to a.. I want to say priestess of Apollo about burying the hatchet so he can get some healing but I got to ask, does Asclepius and his daughters not exist in this universe?
     
  5. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Even if they did, they may not want to heal him since it was their father/grandfather that cursed him, so they may not want to anger him.
     
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  6. Threadmarks: Reconstruction (part 7)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    5th March 2013
    07:23 GMT +3


    I fly over-

    "Paul!"

    -Shiruta on the way to my appointment with Adom, slowing as Amon flies up to greet me.

    "Amon, how are you?"

    He slows down as he reaches me, and… I glance down, following his gaze as he looks at the people below us. People who are bowing in his direction or making other genuflections. I can see… Not just the hope, but there's an association with… Sagacity. They've come to revere him.

    He glances sideways at me, noticing that I've noticed.

    "It is… Strange. Before, my brother was the focus of our people's awe. And now I am." He sort of shrinks in on himself for a moment. "Almost as much."

    "Do you find it unpleasant?"

    "Adom… He could do little during the crisis because he was fighting to keep the misery from our people. They could not see what he was doing. For-. For a day, when he needed to speak to the leaders of our neighbouring countries, I offered to take over for him."

    "How did it go?"

    "I… I lived, but it…" He shakes his head. "I do not think that I could keep doing it for as long as he did." … "No. I know I could not."

    "You survived Intergang."

    "I had an enemy when I survived Intergang. With this, all you have is your own thoughts. I could survive for myself, but I could not have shielded everyone else."

    I shrug. "That's why we call him 'Mighty One'. You've got a few decades to measure up all the way. And don’t sell yourself too short; I know that Mannheim sent Justifiers after you on several occasions."

    "They were slaves, like I was." He shakes his head. "I cannot take pride in defeating them."

    "'Defeating'?"

    "I killed-. Some. But once we learned what they were, I-. I tried to save them. I tried to take off their helmets, disarm them…" He looks over towards… A maximum security prison? "When the White God appeared, we-."

    "White God?"

    "It was white like milk, and it looked like a god?" He looks uncertain. "What was it?"

    "It's something that I'm trying to avoid thinking about. I've heard it being called 'the White God' before. Did-"

    "Oh."

    "-you come up with the name?"

    "No, it was on the internet. But it.. makes sense."

    "It hasn't spoken to anyone around here has it?"

    "I don't think so. Should it?"

    "We… Effectively used its power to remove the Anti-Life. I owe it a great deal-."

    "If it did that, then we all owe it."

    "Not in the sense of a general obligation. I mean in the sense of 'you will now do this or I will reverse what my power wrought'. It might not given that it just turned up at the end, but since it was my decision I'd rather it be me who pays."

    He smiles. "If you wish. How is the rest of the world?"

    "Oh, good grief. Between politicians getting Anti-Lifed or killing themselves or both, governments are bodged together where they exist at all. And the legitimacy of the ones that do exist is basically non-existent but the League and Company are too busy getting basic infrastructure working to worry about it. And it's… Especially a concern in places where we're… Frankly not sure if we want to put their government back together."

    He nods. "My brother has… He has expressed certain views about some of our recent allies."

    "Shape up or ship out?"

    "In slightly more words."

    "He's always impressed me with how moderate he's prepared to be, and how open about it he is. I prefer it his way to lying about it."

    "Some of those he intended to exile have asked to do penance instead. They were… Moved by the White God, who they think was an angel." He frowns. "Was it an angel?"

    "I'm trying to avoid characterising it. If it's spurring them to better themselves then I doubt that the Silver City will complain." I raise my left eyebrow. "Are you forming some sort of North African Union?"

    He shrugs. "Perhaps. Many countries were interested in receiving the blessing of Isis, and Adom is far stronger than any of the superheroes in the region. We were simply negotiating trading and defence agreements before the Anti-Life. But as I said, everyone knows that Adom was keeping it from touching them and that I was leading our defence. I think that we are the leading partner. Except-."

    "Except?"

    "Israel is not interested. Our relationship with them is not… Bad, not compared to Lebanon. But the Jews have taken a harder line against 'pagan magic' than most Muslims. They do not like my brother or my sister or me."

    "I'm not sure how welcome they would have been with your other allies anyway."

    "They would not have been. But I like to think that we could all become friends eventually."

    "So you don't really need any Justice League help?"

    "No. We can feed ourselves easily thanks to my sister, and we can make all of the electricity that we need. We have some infrastructure projects that it would be nice to have help with, but compared to the rest of the world our needs are small. Is..? That what you came to ask?"

    "Partially. With everything that's happened… Superman is thinking about using kryptonian technology to… Improve somewhere. I thought that we could talk Adom into letting us work on an impoverished area of Kahndaq, but if everything here is basically fine that would probably be a waste of time."

    "Yes, but…" He looks thoughtful for a moment. "Have you heard of Tynanda?"

    "Yes."

    "The country collapsed under the effect of the Anti-Life. My brother extended his power there, but there is no government to organise things. No government which could authorise us moving in to help people. Some Tynandans have come here to ask us to, but my brother has hesitated."

    "I understand. He doesn't want to look like an opportunistic warlord."

    "I do not know what Superman intends, but I do not think that he could make the situation worse. They have little infrastructure as it is."

    "I'll take a look. Thank you for the suggestion."

    "You..? Cannot stay for breakfast?"

    "I'm sorry, but we've covered what I wanted to talk to Adom about and with everything else that's happening..."

    "I understand." He nods. "Perhaps when things are more calm?"

    "Thank you. I would like that."
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2023
  7. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Well when your brother-in-law was the one thing stopping them from being mind controlled, it makes sense that they'd revere those close to him.

    Aww, shit.

    Not sure how the internet is on Earth 16, but if it's like here then I shudder.

    I'm getting flashbacks to a John Oliver episode where they covered an AI that started praising Hitler after spending a day on the internet.

    Unless it motivated other countries to keep up.

    When are they ever calm?
     
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  8. Firewillreign

    Firewillreign Know what you're doing yet?

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    You know, I really like the friendships and cordial relationships that Paul has with some of the characters. There's a ton of mutual respect and plenty of very powerful people really do care for him. It's quite a sight to see, when comparing him from the very beginning of the story.
     
  9. Z000

    Z000 If this is trash, then find me in the dumpster

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    so can any one explain why Paul is like avoid thinking about the Life Entity and acting like he need to poop really bad but can't
     
  10. Firewillreign

    Firewillreign Know what you're doing yet?

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    I guess the policy is to to avoid talking about it at all for:

    a) Not alerting anyone further to it's existance and potential

    b) Not letting slip the fact that it's... relatively benign and therefore ripe for exploitation in the eyes of some

    c) On the off chance that it actually has opinions in a way that people can comprehend, avoid having people unconsciously call upon it, draw on it's power, or anyway poke at it incase it gets pissed or is in anway inconvenienced. (The White Life Entity is a lot more... zen and chill than the others, and not ruled by any one emotion, but you really don't want to tempt fate with an existence so powerful it literally represents all life - past, present and future - that has ever existed and will ever exist in the Universe.)
     
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  11. MajorPane

    MajorPane Making the rounds.

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    I think Paul personally is trying to avoid giving the Ophidian *ideas* about the Life Entity. Last thing we need is snake-chan going full yandere for the embodiment of life.

    But also, so far it's managed to remain safe and aloof from mundane matters in the universe, a religion would certainly start integrating it to the status quo in a way that would make others start to take note.
     
  12. Chojin Patriarch

    Chojin Patriarch Veteran Lurker

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    I see he's doing better. Hopefully Adom and Adrianna came out if it well, too. Kahndaq is probably one of the few nations in any fit state at the moment thanks to Adom's protection, so I half-expect them to start dominating the region before long simply because of that lessened damage.

    Fortunately, he's a grounded enough person that it shouldn't go to his head, especially with the Wisdom of Zehuti to temper him.

    Ah, he feels embarrassed by the attention? Good, even less likely to be influenced by it.

    Huh. Brave of him.

    Not yet, anyway. Give it time, lad, and you'll be as great as him.

    I suppose having something to focus on lets you withstand anything. But he still managed it.

    Ah. I see. Another thing to lay at the Anti-Life's master's feet when a reckoning comes.

    But sometimes you don't always have the luxury of mercy, eh? And anything can happen in battle. An unconscious man falling could break his neck on a rock. Be crushed by flying debris. Hit by bullets fired by a former ally... Do your best, and remember the fallen.

    ...Well, it's as good a description as any.

    Ah, Amon noticed that unspoken 'try not to think about it', didn't he?

    Well, no covering up that secret. Fortunately no-one got pictures of it. Though I have no doubt there's plenty of fan-art of varying accuracy about already.

    There's always a cost for calling on it...

    ...And sometimes, it calls in that marker.

    It certainly seemed surprised that someone had called upon it, remember? I'm not sure it knew that could even happen.

    By the time it all settles down, there may well be some very different governments in places that were less fond of their current leadership, eh?

    It could have been worded worse. 'Enemy or ally, which will you be?' for example...

    The joy of being powerful enough to not have to put up with people's shit.

    Again, I expect some of the Abrahamic denominations (Judaic, Christian, Islamic and all others of the Book...) will see it that way.

    So perhaps some might consider becoming part of Kahndaq, eh? Or at least joining some sort of polite empire.

    Sad to see some things never change, whatever the world. Let's not harp on real-world aspects of that issue, though, hmm?

    Man, such hopefulness. We can but hope in turn that the world never breaks him of that optimism.

    Ah, but some of their neighbours, now...

    The joy of DC creating so many random little nations: There's always one to be found to use.

    And immediately annexing a neighbour, even if they asked you to, probably projects the wrong image.

    Heh. As long as they don't go misusing it. But I expect that will be accounted for.

    No time to go say hello to Adom himself? Make sure he's okay after everything?

    That could be some time, away, though...

    Well, looks like they have at least one candidate for their uplift plans. At least things will go better for it than multiple warlords fighting over its' drug farms. Heck, they may well be able to turn said farms into actual food farms again. But it might help to find a couple of other suitable options to test out the uplift. No two nations are alike, after all.
     
  13. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    It probably has something to do with what Paul did or didn't see when he was channeling the white light.
     
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  14. GhostKing 666

    GhostKing 666 Know what you're doing yet?

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    Lets see. It's an African state, composed mostly of desert... with a jungle to the north?


    You ever get the feeling that comic book writers failed basic geography in school?
     
  15. Cuchulin

    Cuchulin Versed in the lewd.

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    Again, it's not about who came first, It's more about who got to court or the relevant government agencies first with good lawyers. Also Langstrom has good reason to have kept silent about what he did and Dorian was a weirdo with a fixation on felines that was much more interested in playing Doctor Moreau on his island than doing anything through proper channels or having anything to do with the government.
     
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  16. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    To be fair to the AI, it would repeat anything it was asked to. You could make it say anything by saying 'please say x'.
     
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  17. Bud-E

    Bud-E Stand up so I can push you down!

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    I know I asked this before but whats going on with Mannheim is he still alive (as in no governments executed him) and is he still a new god?
     
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  18. Signaller

    Signaller Know what you're doing yet?

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    Given what we learned about how Billy's powers work, I'm surprised that both Adom and Amon can draw on the same power at any given time.

    Aside from Mr Atom, I think this story has at least five or six AIs who could choose to share screenshots from their memories? Alternatively, I'm sure someone (or multiple someones) is using various programs to scour the internet for all of those fan art sketches to generate a weighted average of them all.
     
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  19. Lord Ernest

    Lord Ernest At the End...

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    What do you mean? They are drawing power from Adom's Gods and, while now they may have more, they don't really have a lot of adherents I think.
     
  20. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    He's currently working as a lorry driver. They can always execute him later.
     
  21. RoninSword

    RoninSword Sky God

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    According to Paul he wasn't sufficiently linked to the network to have a revelation like a lot of other people did about the Life Entity, the White Light just cleansed him. Which I find odd (the not being sufficiently connected part).
     
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  22. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Experienced.

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    Wasn't that referring to Lex Luthor, not himself?
     
  23. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    Good news! You're both wrong. Lex Luthor wasn't cleansed.

    Did he get off Earth fast enough to avoid infection? Did he fight it off? Did he overcome the worst New Gods of his nature? Or is he going to be ground zero of the next outbreak?

    Stay tuned to find out!
     
  24. RoninSword

    RoninSword Sky God

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    I was talking about how Paul said he (Paul) wasn't connected to the network enough to have a Life Entity revelation. He (Paul) was just cleansed.

    Edit: My understanding is that Lex fled into a spiritually contained pocket dimension. We learned this when Alex Luthor talked to him. Also, u less Lex internalized some of the Anti Life, I don't think he should be an infection vector even if he wasn't purged. Otherwise the people who fled to Earth -16 should also be potential infection vectors.

    Speaking of the people who left for earth -16, are they coming back?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
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  25. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Experienced.

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    Not unless the heroes can find a way to Earth -16, locate who's from Earth 16, and get them back with minimal casualties. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen anytime soon, if it will at all.
     
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  26. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    And that's also assuming that they'd all want to come back.

    After experiencing Anti-Life, a lot of them may prefer to be far away from the planet that had it, even if it's cleared up now.
     
  27. Vaermina

    Vaermina Well worn.

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    Getting back to Earth -16 is easy.

    Just FTL a few solar systems over, dimension hop, then FTL back to Earth -16.
     
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  28. Lord Ernest

    Lord Ernest At the End...

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    Don't people from negative Earths have their organs the other way around? I'm fairly certain that's a plot point, Alex Luthor is there after all. So to locate the people from Earth 16, just check those with their organs in the familiar way on that planet, to start with.

    Also, I don't think Earth -16 has an Anti-Parallel travel barrier, does it? So the heroes just need to turn off the barrier from Earth 16 to allow travel, no? And even if that's not possible, the Illustres for sure can travel to Earth -16; I've mentioned it before, just travel away from the barrier's range, transition to the negatige universe like they did when travelling to Qward and then travel to Earth -16. Not exactly easy, but not overly difficult either, I should think.
     
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  29. Threadmarks: Reconstruction (part 8)
    Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    5th March 2013
    06:58 GMT +2


    "Good morning, Georgios."

    The bare-chested man nods at me, but doesn't otherwise react. Looking at him is interesting. He's actually a little under six feet tall, but he… Feels larger. And not just because of the additional bulk his muscles lend him. And those muscles look like they're both in perfect proportion to form the masculine ideal and absolutely massive things capable of crushing bricks between them at the same time, like a picture that can either be a vase or two faces. Spiritually-enhanced martial arts: not just for the Orientals.

    Georgios and his fellow Sons of Kratos did sterling work in keeping Greece functioning, though… Unlike Amon they simply weren't strong enough to fight the most powerful Justifiers. But they could fight and keep the people around them from being overwhelmed, and they used that to tour the country to stop any one place getting too bad. The Greek government is actually… It wasn't functioning, but it started up again fairly quickly.

    "Any news on your teacher?"

    A slight head-shake. About what I was expecting.

    I haven't been able to establish perfect timelines, but Kratos, Ploutos and Hera all disappeared from their civilian lives at some point after the Anti-Life hit. Naturally, the Sons of Kratos weren't exactly helpless without their god. Their whole philosophy involves being willing to tough problems out and push on through regardless of the opposition. Still, it would be helpful if I could get in contact with an Olympian. Zeus implied that he didn't know where they'd gone, but I'd understand if he's not really inclined to answer my questions helpfully.

    The Anti-Life is gone. They shouldn't still be under attack. I don't want to try taking an elf-path back because, firstly, I don't have a guide, and secondly because I don't want to wander in blind if something else is going on.

    "I'll let you know if I hear anything."

    That gets me another small nod, then he steps aside and lets me into the Prime Minister's office.

    There's a desk next to the main window, but at the moment the most powerful people in Greek government are seated around a medium-sized table off to one side. Paperwork is mixed with the detritus of breakfast as they try and get the country into shape.

    "Mister Prime Minister. Defence Minister. Finance Minister."

    The Prime Minister raises his coffee cup in greeting. "Orange Lantern. On behalf of the Republic of Greece, thank you for freeing us from the Anti-Life."

    "Sorry it took so long. Ah, look, you're all busy people, so I'll get on with it. The Justice League -which in this context means Superman and me- are thinking about releasing some very advanced technologies to human civilisation, and we want some places to volunteer-"

    The Defence Minister blinks as he works out what I'm offering a little ahead of the other two.

    "-to be our canaries."

    The Finance Minister, possessing the bloodshot eyes of a man trying to fill in for a God of Finance and finding out that it's impossible, blinks in confusion.

    "Canaries?"

    "In Britain, miners would take small birds in cages down the mines with them as carbon monoxide detectors. If there was carbon monoxide, the canaries died before the miners and they knew to evacuate."

    They all stare at me.

    "Sorry, I have a fairly black sense of humour. My point is that we don't know what the economic effect of this will be, so we're asking for volunteers."

    The Prime Minister takes a moment to regain his equilibrium. "What exactly are you offering?"

    "Improved power generation is the obvious thing. I can give you enough bleed torsion generators to replace everything that you use now, and I can-. Well, I can't explain the physics, but I can give your physicists a full written explanation written by other people so that you can learn to build your own. I think Kal-El has some sort of improved recycling technology he wants to share, along with graphene-producing towers that pull carbon out of the air and make a super-strong building material out of it."

    I shrug.

    "I'm afraid that my Dolmen Gate project is on indefinite hiatus until Atlantis drops its shields, but Superman and I both have teleportation technology that doesn't use magic. We're.. probably going to want to black box those, but it will still make it much easier to transport goods around. Or if you want something that you can build without us, we've got all sorts of aircraft designs that are generations ahead of anything on Earth."

    "What..?" The Defence Minister glances at his colleague for a moment. "What about magic?"

    "Sorry, but with Atlantis incommunicado we don’t have the spare magic capacity to use magic industrially. Even KordTech's weather control system production line has shut down, and we have no idea when it could be started up again. Is..? That a problem?"

    "Nnnno." The Prime Minister shakes his head. "No. It will make things easier. Will you also be offering anything else?"

    "We don't really have a plan. As I said, we've never done this before and we don't know exactly how things will work out. I've got-. There's basically nothing that we can't improve, the challenge will be actually integrating it with Greek society rather than just giving people technological hand-outs."

    He nods, slightly stunned. "I will need to discuss that with the full cabinet, and with parliament."

    "Of course. I appreciate that this is a big deal."

    "Is anywhere else under consideration?

    "Tynanda."

    He looks blank.

    "It's in north-west Africa. Civilisation sort of passed it by, its exports are narcotics and people and we couldn't really make the situation worse. We might talk to other places as well but this is a radical departure from how we normally work and there's a high degree of institutional inertia."

    He nods cautiously.

    "Ah, thank you for your time. Is there.. anything you wanted to ask me?"

    "What has become of Themyscira?"

    "Oh! Ah, firstly, they're all alright. The island got moved to serve as an outer defence for Olympus. I'm not really sure why it hasn't reappeared yet, but that's… That's something that I will investigate once things are a little more stable."

    "I would appreciate it if you could make it a priority. There are… Creatures in the water around Themyscira which are still here. We are concerned what they will do without the Amazons to watch over them."

    Ah. Yes, that's a reasonable concern. And there aren't really a lot of people who those creatures might recognise. Actually, it's basically just Donna and maybe Kon.

    I nod.

    "I'll get on that today. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. Was there anything else?"

    The Defence Minister nods. "What would happen if whoever sent this… 'Anti-Life' did it again today?"

    "Ah, well, that required a whole broadcast network that doesn't exist. It would be unpleasant in a small area, but that's about it. If you mean 'are we immune now', no, I don't think so. I think that planetary defence is something that governments should look at once they… Ah… Start existing again."

    The Prime Minister nods. "Thank you, Orange Lantern. That is all."
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2023
  30. Darko

    Darko Connoisseur.

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    Yeah, these guys are Captain America strong, not Soldier Boy strong.

    I see that the tradition of not saying much has been passed on to this universe and to those that follow the path of Kratos.

    Unless it somehow damaged them magically.

    Well you did save that elf girl and helped reunite her with her brother.

    One of them may be able to do it.

    Unless Darkseid comes by himself instead of sending a sock puppet, then the damage may be more significant.
     
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