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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Discussion in 'Creative Writing' started by Mr Zoat, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. ForeverShogo

    ForeverShogo Know what you're doing yet?

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    Fine. Regular primitivism. But they're talking about dismantling farms and de-industrializing. Returning everything to jungle. That seems pretty anti-tech to me.

    Like, it's pretty clear they want over 50% of South America to return to a purely hunter-gatherer lifestyle.
     
  2. Mr Zoat

    Mr Zoat Dedicated ragequitter

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    They don't actually worship Gaia.
    The League wouldn't want to get involved. Would they if it came to it? Maybe?

    I can't remember what it's called, but there's phrase which means something along the line of 'even if someone has committed an offence against you, if you want your complaint to be taken seriously then you better not have done anything wrong yourself'.
     
  3. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    I imagine the League would have to get involved since all the involved countries are UN members and if the tribes won they'd be forcing millions of people out of their homes and would probably cause an unprecedented financial and refugee crisis as several countries simply stop existing for all intents and purposes
    Eh, we know he knew the tribes existed but there's no way of knowing if he actually knew what their plan was

    Also, given that they'd be painted as a bunch of super powered terrorists declaring war on several countries I doubt Lex would back them up, he'd be more likely to give the Brazilians super weapons to test if they work on Danner Enhanciles
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  4. ArKFallen

    ArKFallen unTitled

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    The moment the demands included 3+ separate countries' land their chances of negotiation became fucked. After the first attack on another country they will be classified as international terrorists and the the UN's peace-keeping force will be pressured to step in.
     
  5. Yog

    Yog Know what you're doing yet?

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    The big question is - what else do they have? They have an army of Danner enhanciles. But those failed once before. And were refined since (it wouldn't surprise me if their version is better than Lex's). They might also have other assets not disclosed yet. Like... Snowflame should be somewhere around this area, shouldn't he? And even Trigon acknowledges(if not fears) the power of Coca (and yes, I know this is a fan comic, it's still fun).

    Point is - assuming they are not stupid, the Dawn Warrior is at least somewhat aware of the state of the world, and they remember Green Lantern, they likely have at least several trump cards they are yet to reveal. We might be seeing Great Ghost Dance yet.
     
  6. Cuchulin

    Cuchulin Not too sore, are you?

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    Hopefully these Tribes Folk understand that they are NEGOTIATING rather than simply demanding things. Also it'd be nice if the government understands that as well.
     
  7. Ct613hulu

    Ct613hulu Experienced.

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    This latest chapter is reminding me of the Shadowrun Sixth World setting's country of Amazonia.

    If the Dawn Warriors reach out to other marginalized groups than they could potentially acquire powerful supernatural allies and start creating a similar nation. I would be very interested in seeing the story progress in this direction as it seems like it could lead to a very interesting conflict between a Scientific and Magic military force.
     
  8. fictionfan

    fictionfan If you see a God on the road fuck it!

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    There are wars happening all over the world that they don't get involved in.
     
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  9. NeoDarklight

    NeoDarklight The Final Observer

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    This segues nicely into something I’d like to point out- this would be an excellent time to plant Euanthe’s seed, and have her explain exactly why going that far is a Bad Idea, Ecologically. If a plant-goddess tells you that the ecological changes you’re trying to implement are stupid, then it’s probably time to review your ecoterrorism plans.
     
  10. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Yes but those are either A) Civil wars which the League has no right to interfere with, B) Between countries that aren't members of the UN so the League can't operate there or C) Complicated enough that the UN wouldn't want them to involve themselves nor would there necessarily be a good and bad side

    None of those apply to this situation
     
  11. Darko

    Darko I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Lex probably didn't know about several hundred super strong people living in the jungle and only believed that a few like Dawn Warrior survived.

    Fabiana may be that reporter that did a brief interview with OL and Kon when Canis showed up on Earth with Dreamer, Black Reign was the name of the episode.

    Gaia would most likely not be interested in an intervention, plus depending if the stories are true in story and if she hasn't mellowed out like Hades has then Gaia was known to be a tough love sort of woman in the myths with her tough love including things like earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and Typhon.
     
  12. Ngamer11

    Ngamer11 Not too sore, are you?

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    These guys seem surprisingly ignorant of what the rest of the world could do to them, especially since Dawn Warrior has been living with access to the Internet to look stuff up. I hope they just go with plan take over everything they want, and Hugo decides to go with it even though he knows it won't end well as a way of taking responsibility.

    The League can't be contacted/respond quick enough, forcing OL to go to more expedient measures to subdue them. I also wouldn't be surprised if Lex uses this as a way to market some new weapons, like the OMAC drones, to prevent metahuman uprisings.
     
  13. Queshire

    Queshire Not too sore, are you?

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    Would she say that though? If the ecological consequences are from men firebombing them or whatever then she's not likely to consider that.
     
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  14. ForeverShogo

    ForeverShogo Know what you're doing yet?

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    Oh, I hope nothing like the Great Ghost Dance is on the horizon. That's one of the stupidest goddamn things about the Shadowrun setting.

    And the idea that the League might not get involved is ridiculous. This isn't some quaint civil war anymore. This is a bunch of crazy people with superpowers making demands that would result in the destruction of multiple countries.

    This is multinational supervillainy.

    This is the exact kind of bullshit the League is supposed to slap down. Doing anything other than stopping them if it comes to violence would severely damage their UN Mandate.
     
  15. Darko

    Darko I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    This entire thing, even if it goes smoothly, can definetly get governments interested in making superhuman armies.
    Even if the negotiations work leaders around the world will want to have their own armies of superhumans in case something like this happens again and doesn't resolve itself peacefully, so yeah Lex may have just gotten himself several profitable future contracts if he figured out that OMAC thing and how it works.
     
  16. Stsword

    Stsword I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Ah, Zoat didn't use one of the fun little tidbits from that storyline.

    Hugo's greatest weapon was....reverse psychology!

    Knowing that telling his Sons of Dawn that he wanted them to conquer the world would get the response of "I don't wanna conquer the world! I hate you! I hate you! I hate you! You aren't my real dad!" Hugo instead told the kids "Oh no, you must stay in the plateau where you'll be safe with the dinosaurs, the modern world is way too scary for you to handle despite your godlike superpowers, because I said so!"

    Which eventually ended up with the Sons of Dawn burying Hugo alive under rocks and then going out to conquer the world.

    Unfortunately for the Sons, Professor Challenger's daughter Georgia accompanied Iron to the Lost World with a head cold, so it was already too late by that point.
     
  17. Ct613hulu

    Ct613hulu Experienced.

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    I would say that this particular situation fits many of the criteria that you are using as justifications for non-interference. To go by your list:

    A) This is a civil war involving the rebellion of a faction that has been subject to a long history of oppression and has no feasible means of achieving progress peacefully.

    B) The indigenous tribes are not recognized by the UN as a Nation, but they also don't operate within the existing structures of a recognized nation.

    C) The situation is intensely complicated. Both sides have valid points and choosing to use direct force to support either side would cause a lot of controversy.

    Supporting Brazil could easily be interpreted as declaring support for imperialism and the abuse of indigenous people. This seems like the type of thing that could greatly damage the reputation of the Justice League as it would greatly reinforce the idea that they are a Western organization that is more concerned with preserving the status quo than helping all humanity. It could also lead to defacto support Genocide as that seems like the only effective means to prevent the Danner tribes from being a recurring threat.

    Supporting the Danner Tribes would make most of the nations of South America into enemies but it would also cause problems with all the nations that possess ethnic groups that seek independence or restitution for their abuse by the government and must now fear Justice League involvement (I am not going to go further into this as it involves divisive modern politics).

    There is also no easy solution as the demands of the Danner Tribes will be unacceptable to the Brazil, while the Danner Tribe will refuse to accept a continuation of the status quo that keeps them oppressed and will eventually lead to the destruction of their people.

    -
    My perspective is that stepping back from the situation in order to take on the role of neutral negotiators and advisers is the only sensible course of action. This seems like the only way for the Justice League to respond to the situation without jeopardizing their moral principles or committing to a course of action that could only lead to disaster.
     
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  18. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    A) The second they involve other countries it isn't a civil war anymore

    B) All the countries they'd be attacking are UN members and the tribes would be at best seen as a terrorist organisation

    C) Yes morally there is no clear right side but the fallout of the tribes winning is infinitely worse than the alternative seeing as it would lead to millions of people forced from their homes and would cause multiple countries to cease to exist, causing the largest refugee and financial crisis in human history
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  19. DAT_NOOB

    DAT_NOOB Accused of writing in a far away land

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    Of course while selling chemical weapons to the other side
     
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  20. Ct613hulu

    Ct613hulu Experienced.

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    I think that you make a very good point regarding the consequences of the Tribes winning. My perspective is that the demands presented in the latest chapter were simply a starting point that would be easily negotiated down to something more reasonable. If the tribes are totally committed to their demands then the entire situation changes and this conflict becomes a more unequivocal conflict of good vs evil.
     
  21. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Oh I agree, I'm just saying that if It did come to a war the League would have to fight against them
     
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  22. david

    david Getting out there.

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    If the team suddenly has a policy that you're not allowed to illegally sift through data, intrusively look into other peoples lives, keep major secrets from team leaders, or stay silent about massively important details...Well OL and Robin are definitely off the team.

    The problem there is that those politicians know that no matter what, there are going to be survivors. Doing this ensures that, at some point in the future, the top politicians and their families will be torn apart.
     
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  23. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    This would be considered a civil war. Also, no-one wants the Justice League to step in and tell countries they can't go to war anymore. That's something Zoat has already said, in this episode, in story.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  24. jonasquinn

    jonasquinn I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    Yes but like I said, the second they involve other countries, which their demands explicitly do, it isn't a civil war anymore

    It's multiple countries that are all member states of the UN fighting a superpowered terrorist group
     
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  25. RichardWhereat

    RichardWhereat Aia airëa Fëanáro.

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    Yeah, but again, no-one wants the Justice League to step in and tell countries they can't go to war anymore. That's something Zoat has already said, in this episode, in story.

    They'd likely go to war against Brazil first, win, and then go to war against the other countries.

    The tribespeople winning and replanting the jungles would go a long way to fixing the carbon emissions problem that Paul said he'd have to paint so many rooves white in order to counteract. Back in that interview that time.
     
  26. DAT_NOOB

    DAT_NOOB Accused of writing in a far away land

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    OK, I'm thinking the only way the league gets involved is if the south American governments declare them a supervillain group
     
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  27. Darko

    Darko I trust you know where the happy button is?

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    The Brazilians may try to declare them a supervillain group, but the League wouldn't buy it for one second.
     
  28. Ct613hulu

    Ct613hulu Experienced.

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    The question of whether these tribes should be defined as supervillain or terrorist organization seems like it is directly connected to the question of what oppressed groups are morally allowed to do to resist their oppressor.

    At what point does the heroic resistance become simply a group of terrorists?

    I think that this is a really fascinating question that has no definitive answer. If anyone has a good take on this idea than I would love to read it.
     
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  29. BlueMangoAdea

    BlueMangoAdea Getting out there.

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    When they lose?
     
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  30. TheEyes

    TheEyes Versed in the lewd.

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    None of that is why Squire will be in trouble; she'll be in trouble for blurting out those secrets during a critically volatile period and potentially making the situation worse.

    But they are; their stated goal is to displace tens of millions, an act which will result in destabilizing the entire Western hemisphere at the minimum and the deaths of tens to hundreds of thousands.

    Yeah, sure, their other goal of restoring the rainforest is laudable, but that goal didn't make Poison Ivy or Ra's al Ghul suddenly heroes. Just because these guys aren't White doesn't mean they can get away with using the exact same methods and get to call themselves heroes.
     
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